Sony XBR-HX950 Owners' Thread (XBR-55HX9​50 and XBR-65HX95​0) - Page 19 - AVS Forum
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post #541 of 4549 Old 10-07-2012, 12:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flavius View Post

No banding. Sorry about the delay in pics guys, I'm still trying to figure out what to do about the insane 3D gaming crosstalk and lack of MotionFlow for 3D games. Just read the ES8000 can enable AMP for 3D games and has minimal crosstalk. Not promising.
2D and 3D movies (only with MotionFlow on) are both excellent. Local dimming creates a perfect image. 3D movies without MotionFlow are unwatchable due to flicker, so beware. Haloing is not a big deal, but yes it exists in some special situations.
If I wasn't planning to game in 3D I'd recommend it in a heartbeat. As it stands, I'm torn. Damn my perfectionism. But $5K and I can't use a major feature?! (to me at least)
I'm seriously considering getting a 65ES8000 and doing a showdown. eek.gif The Elite supposedly is not great for crosstalk, and I want to spend less in the end if possible, not more.

I thought the elites were supposed to be outstanding in 3d!
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post #542 of 4549 Old 10-07-2012, 12:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Flavius View Post

Can you point me to how to do this?

Koffas and Gorthocar did it. I gather they input via PC a black image and then move the mouse cursor along the upper edge which lit up the zones one by one from left to right (they got 15 on the 55''). They repeat on the left side edge(they got 7 zones). They then multiply these 2 numbers to get the total number of zones(15X7=105). Voila smile.gif
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post #543 of 4549 Old 10-07-2012, 12:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Sonyboy View Post

I thought the elites were supposed to be outstanding in 3d!

I don't know, but several reviews complained about crosstalk, and that's good enough for me to discount it in favor of the HX950 right now. I already know Samsung can pull off 3D that I find mind blowing, hence why I'm sticking with Samsung but going LCD instead of plasma this time. If Samsung is not WAY better in 3D without significant degradation in 2D. I'll stick with Samsung. No more experiments after this, I've had it. At least not until 65" OLED comes out and is sub $5K smile.gif
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post #544 of 4549 Old 10-07-2012, 01:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Flavius View Post

I don't know, but several reviews complained about crosstalk, and that's good enough for me to discount it in favor of the HX950 right now. I already know Samsung can pull off 3D that I find mind blowing, hence why I'm sticking with Samsung but going LCD instead of plasma this time. If Samsung is not WAY better in 3D without significant degradation in 2D. I'll stick with Samsung. No more experiments after this, I've had it. At least not until 65" OLED comes out and is sub $5K smile.gif

I know the feeling! Swapping out tv's can be exhausting! I had an episode of that about 4 years ago and it still affects my purchasing today. I currently have a krp-500m which I completely adore, but sometimes I wish I had a bigger screen but I don't want to have an episode again of swapping out tv's trying to find a suitable replacement or defective sets. So right now I'm in the if it ain't broke don't fix it mode!
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post #545 of 4549 Old 10-07-2012, 01:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flavius View Post

OK, tried the Ti glasses now. I think I prefer the Playstation glasses overall, as the Ti make things a bit too yellow. Movie 3D is still good, maybe a little less flicker with the Ti. But NO improvement for 3D gaming. What's worse, this TV forces off MotionFlow for 3D gaming, but not 3D movies. I don't understand this.
The lack of MotionFlow for 3D games, plus the much worse crosstalk for games make this TV almost unusable for 3D gaming. It's pretty much perfect for 2D, and very decent for movie 3D though. Starting to have second thoughts here, the plasma's 3D gaming was just jaw dropping.
2D anything is just excellent on top of excellent, IMHO, so don't let this discourage you if you're not a 3D gamer.

Montionflow should be disabled for gaming. The framerate in a game is variable. Motionflow adds extra frames that never existed in the first place. This causes a greater degree of lag and visual quirks in games as well.
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post #546 of 4549 Old 10-07-2012, 01:44 PM
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Originally Posted by vaxick View Post

Montionflow should be disabled for gaming.

This is your opinion. I know what it does, and I know it adds some lag. But it significantly reduces camera panning judder and flicker, alright? That's more important to me than lag, as hard as that may be for you to believe. It adds less artifacts than the similar AMP, but even that wasn't too bad.
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post #547 of 4549 Old 10-07-2012, 02:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike50 View Post

Koffas and Gorthocar did it. I gather they input via PC a black image and then move the mouse cursor along the upper edge which lit up the zones one by one from left to right (they got 15 on the 55''). They repeat on the left side edge(they got 7 zones). They then multiply these 2 numbers to get the total number of zones(15X7=105). Voila smile.gif
And just for this experiment, it helps to crank the backlight to the max, and to view off axis.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flavius View Post

This is your opinion. I know what it does, and I know it adds some lag. But it significantly reduces camera panning judder and flicker, alright? That's more important to me than lag, as hard as that may be for you to believe. It adds less artifacts than the similar AMP, but even that wasn't too bad.
In that case, if you can handle a bit of lag, maybe you can keep it in a mode where you can enable Motionflow. And as a bonus, it will let the dimming zones go all the way to pitch black. I don't game as much as you do, but when I do, the lag bothers me, so I set it in gaming mode with all the Motionflow, etc, disabled.
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Bazinga!

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post #548 of 4549 Old 10-07-2012, 02:21 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike50 View Post

Koffas and Gorthocar did it. I gather they input via PC a black image and then move the mouse cursor along the upper edge which lit up the zones one by one from left to right (they got 15 on the 55''). They repeat on the left side edge(they got 7 zones). They then multiply these 2 numbers to get the total number of zones(15X7=105). Voila smile.gif

Here's the orginal post...
Quote:
Originally Posted by koffas View Post

You can be in any picture mode. All one you need to do is connect a computer to the display, put up a full-field black image, and move a bright object (e.g., the mouse arrow) across the screen horizontally and then vertically. You need to view the panel off-axis in a dark room to detect each LED lighting up.

I've been asked via PM to snap some close-ups of the panel insignia. I've added the following pics to the OP.
The one thing I do suggest removing for a cleaner appearance is the Energy Star sticker.

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post #549 of 4549 Old 10-07-2012, 02:38 PM
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Hi, how do you turn on or off local dimming?
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post #550 of 4549 Old 10-07-2012, 03:00 PM
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are there any recommended calibration settings for just gaming?
All Calibration S/W and disks (WoW) are for movies, isn't it? IMHO
To my likes I found that calibrated TV was too dark for gaming and kinda dull - no picture punch.
The same applies to Gamma that has to be 2.2 with color 6500k - those are for "true" skin tones.
If you increase color to 9000k you'd see "better", again IMHO.

Flavius, I'd like to know your opinion from "gaming" side for this matter.

Another thing is that no one 50"+ TV is 120Hz, but 60Hz max for video input, that means only 120Hz LCD displays are good for 3D gaming, while smaller size for a while.

Any one know TV that accepts 120Hz via HDMI / DVI?
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post #551 of 4549 Old 10-07-2012, 03:02 PM
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Hi all, I got that cloud issue with my 950 and I think it the local dimming and that I don't know how to turn on or off. I was playing with the custom setting and now I got that cloud thing at the upper right corner of my screen. I really like this TV and want to upgrade to the 65inch version, but want to make sure I resolve the cloud issue first to make sure it not the TV.
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post #552 of 4549 Old 10-07-2012, 03:16 PM
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What is your backlight setting?
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post #553 of 4549 Old 10-07-2012, 03:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikek753 View Post

Any one know TV that accepts 120Hz via HDMI / DVI?

Pretty sure they don't exist.
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post #554 of 4549 Old 10-07-2012, 03:52 PM
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Summary of 3D Observations on the 65HX950:

1) The Playstation 3D glasses are significantly superior to the Sony Titanium 3D glasses. The PS glasses are polarized, the Ti glasses are not. (This is easily confirmed by looking at an LED clock with 3D on). This means that tilting your head a little bit in 3D will totally change the colors on the Ti glasses, but NOT the PS glasses. Additionally, although the PS glasses are ever so slightly darker, the colors are richer and pop more. The Ti glasses tend to put a slighly dull yellowish patina on the picture. Most importantly, crosstalk, while still there in equal amounts, is far less noticeable on the PS glasses. It's more faded somehow. Finally, the PS glasses are much easier to wear if you have prescription glasses like I do, and block out more light. The Ti glasses are just a bit more comfortable on the nose. That's all they have going for them. FYI, Samsung's bluetooth 3D glasses are also polarized.

2) The movies I tested were Open Season 3D and Avengers 3D. The first has very little crosstalk and looks fabulous. So does Avengers, though in some scenes the crosstalk may be SLIGHTLY more. Not a huge deal. The 3D depth is very good. However, unless you turn on MotionFlow, 3D movies flicker quite badly!

3) For 3D games, the TV forces off MotionFlow and the benefits I think it provides to low framerate 3D games (mainly judder and ghosting reduction). However, even though MotionFlow is off, flicker is not introduced, unlike for movies. Probably something to do with the 24 vs 60Hz difference. The problem is that crosstalk is very noticeable for 3D games. If you max the 3D effect sliders in games like Halo CE or Uncharted 3, they become almost unplayable, especially Halo CE. However, there are two things that can be done to reduce the crosstalk: 1. Use the PS instead of the Ti glasses. 2. Lower the 3D effect slider in each game's settings. This has the biggest effect on crosstalk, going from extreme crosstalk to almost zero crosstalk. Of course the tradeoff is a smaller 3D effect. I have no idea how my Samsung plasma was able to virtually eliminate crosstalk with the 3D effects maxed. Perhaps the plasma tech or the bluetooth tech helps. I should note that my previous statement about 3D games being stuck in Game mode is false. You can change to any scene mode, and you enable local dimming in Game mode too, just not MotionFlow.

Also, I've ruled out cables or receivers as having been responsible for the crosstalk I'm seeing in games. It's purely a function of what I said above.

I'm sorry I don't have much to say yet on the 2D front. It's just amazingly good. The problems I've encountered so far are: 1) Some clouding when Local Dimming is off. 2) Potential light, but static DSE (will compare to my old zero DSE TV tonight to rule out a source issue). 3) The Advanced Contrast Enhancer tends to crush blacks unless you turn it off. Also, I'm not sure what Reality Creation really does besides massively increase picture sharpness. The Reality Creation may be responsible for the slightly overprocessed "fake" effect that someone complained about earlier when seeing it in a showroom. Every time I think its too overdone, I turn it off, and its like I'm looking through a blur filter, even though that is actually the "normal" picture.
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post #555 of 4549 Old 10-07-2012, 03:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bzal1122 View Post

What is your backlight setting?

My back light setting is 4
I folowed this setting; http://www.hometheater.com/content/sony-bravia-xbr-55hx929-3d-led-lcd-hdtv-settings
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post #556 of 4549 Old 10-07-2012, 04:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flavius View Post

Alright, it's official. Ordered a 65ES8000 and doing a showdown. It's the only way to put my mind at ease since I've totally discounted the Sharp sets, the LG sets (passive 3D is a joke today), the Elites, and any plasma. Tune in next week for the results!
I'm willing to sacrifice a little 2D to get better 3D because 1) I'm a big gamer unlike most of you I'm sure and 2) 3D is one of my main reasons for wanting to upgrade my 52" CCFL LCD, besides the fact that I mainly wanted a bigger screen and no glowing black bars for movies.
I guess if nothing else it will make me very popular on this forum. biggrin.gif

get ready for banding and clouding and poor uniformity on the 65" sammy. i hear the 3d is exceptional though.

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post #557 of 4549 Old 10-07-2012, 04:52 PM
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Originally Posted by airgas1998 View Post

get ready for banding and clouding and poor uniformity on the 65" sammy. i hear the 3d is exceptional though.

We'll see. They supposedly resolved this with the fresh batches recently. Still, I feel I have to compare for my own sanity.
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post #558 of 4549 Old 10-07-2012, 06:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Sonyboy View Post

I thought the elites were supposed to be outstanding in 3d!

They are and have virtually no crosstalk on most material.
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post #559 of 4549 Old 10-07-2012, 06:57 PM
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Originally Posted by koffas View Post

Here's the orginal post...
I've been asked via PM to snap some close-ups of the panel insignia. I've added the following pics to the OP.
The one thing I do suggest removing for a cleaner appearance is the Energy Star sticker.

Wow, the build quality looks great on this set. I will have to see this set in person (along with the 84" 4K set) at the Sony Style store in Roosevelt Field Mall. Kind of looks like a giant iPhone
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post #560 of 4549 Old 10-07-2012, 07:15 PM
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Originally Posted by kesando View Post

They are and have virtually no crosstalk on most material.

Oh really? This review begs to differ: http://www.televisioninfo.com/content/Sharp-Elite-PRO-60X5FD-Review/3D-Effect.htm
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post #561 of 4549 Old 10-07-2012, 07:20 PM
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Originally Posted by airgas1998 View Post

get ready for banding and clouding and poor uniformity on the 65" sammy. i hear the 3d is exceptional though.

Well, I hate to say it, but my HX950 suffers from what can only be called mild Dirty Screen Effect. My wife sees it too. Ran WOW with an all white screen and confirmed what I have been spotting in mixed content: There is a faint, uneven vertical band right in the center of the TV, and much lighter and small splotches all around. I'll see if I can capture it in a photo. I think my old Samsung CCFL has better white uniformity which would be just sad. Granted, this is with uncalibrated settings.
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post #562 of 4549 Old 10-07-2012, 07:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Flavius View Post

Well, I hate to say it, but my HX950 suffers from what can only be called mild Dirty Screen Effect. My wife sees it too. Ran WOW with an all white screen and confirmed what I have been spotting in mixed content: There is a faint, uneven vertical band right in the center of the TV, and much lighter and small splotches all around. I'll see if I can capture it in a photo. I think my old Samsung CCFL has better white uniformity which would be just sad. Granted, this is with uncalibrated settings.


From what you wrote, it sounds like the 65'' panel has more defects than the 55''. Either because they are different kinds or yours is a bad sample.
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post #563 of 4549 Old 10-07-2012, 07:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Flavius View Post

Oh really? This review begs to differ: http://www.televisioninfo.com/content/Sharp-Elite-PRO-60X5FD-Review/3D-Effect.htm

Can't get the link to work. I won't bother posting the many other links of reviewers/owners that have said otherwise. Sonyboy must have heard about the Elites 3D performance from somewhere
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post #564 of 4549 Old 10-07-2012, 07:56 PM
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Can't get the link to work. I won't bother posting the many other links of reviewers/owners that have said otherwise. Sonyboy must have heard about the Elites 3D performance from somewhere

Hmm... link works fine. It says this: "The Elite PRO-X5FD never wowed us with spectacular 3D effects—the total experience was just mediocre. We wouldn’t say that the Elite handles 3D poorly, but there is definitely room for improvement. We tested 3D with our calibration settings and with the Movie THX settings—there is no Elite Pure mode in 3D. With both calibration settings, there is noticeable crosstalk, or image ghosting. 3D creates two separate images, each intended for a specific eye. Crosstalk is created when an image meant for one eye is shown in the other. This annoying effect ruins the immersion that 3D is supposed to create."
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post #565 of 4549 Old 10-07-2012, 08:05 PM
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Hmm... link works fine. It says this: "The Elite PRO-X5FD never wowed us with spectacular 3D effects—the total experience was just mediocre. We wouldn’t say that the Elite handles 3D poorly, but there is definitely room for improvement. We tested 3D with our calibration settings and with the Movie THX settings—there is no Elite Pure mode in 3D. With both calibration settings, there is noticeable crosstalk, or image ghosting. 3D creates two separate images, each intended for a specific eye. Crosstalk is created when an image meant for one eye is shown in the other. This annoying effect ruins the immersion that 3D is supposed to create."

Thanks for quoting the info from the page. What material did they watch and was the set calibrated? That would be the first review that has spoken so poorly of the 3D perfomance. PC Mag, C-net and VE (among others) had much more positive impressions with the set when compared with the VT50, and 929. I had the opportunity to see then side by side. My advice has always been to see a TV in person before passing judgement. Is 3D on the 950 improved or not?
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post #566 of 4549 Old 10-07-2012, 08:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flavius View Post

Summary of 3D Observations on the 65HX950:
1) The Playstation 3D glasses are significantly superior to the Sony Titanium 3D glasses. The PS glasses are polarized, the Ti glasses are not. (This is easily confirmed by looking at an LED clock with 3D on). This means that tilting your head a little bit in 3D will totally change the colors on the Ti glasses, but NOT the PS glasses. Additionally, although the PS glasses are ever so slightly darker, the colors are richer and pop more. The Ti glasses tend to put a slighly dull yellowish patina on the picture. Most importantly, crosstalk, while still there in equal amounts, is far less noticeable on the PS glasses. It's more faded somehow. Finally, the PS glasses are much easier to wear if you have prescription glasses like I do, and block out more light. The Ti glasses are just a bit more comfortable on the nose. That's all they have going for them. FYI, Samsung's bluetooth 3D glasses are also polarized.

Sony makes polarizing filters for their BR250 and BR750 glasses. In the past, you had to contact Sony to obtain them.
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post #567 of 4549 Old 10-07-2012, 09:18 PM
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Sony makes polarizing filters for their BR250 and BR750 glasses. In the past, you had to contact Sony to obtain them.

I'd also like to point out that the polarizer built into the Playstation glasses is what is preventing the 3D effect from going away completely when you tilt your head. I tested this. This also explains why Sony was beaten up in the past for loss of 3D due to head tilt. They default to no polarizer whereas Samsung defaults to having a polarizer.

As for the other question, I wish I could tell you if they improved the 3D from the 929, but I've never seen 3D on the 929. 3D movies look great, but 3D games have too much crosstalk.

Here is a pic of my HX950 issue with the DSE? Or is this banding? Anyway, ignore any bluish discoloration in the image below which my camera added, and focus on the gray vertical line in the center of the screen. WHAT IS THIS? DSE? Banding?

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post #568 of 4549 Old 10-07-2012, 09:28 PM
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Originally Posted by kesando View Post

Can't get the link to work. I won't bother posting the many other links of reviewers/owners that have said otherwise. Sonyboy must have heard about the Elites 3D performance from somewhere

From owners to the professional reviews I've seen such as Cnet, Home theater, etc, they all had nothing but positive to say about the 3d.
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post #569 of 4549 Old 10-07-2012, 09:30 PM
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Here is a pic of my HX950 issue with the DSE? Or is this banding? Anyway, ignore any bluish discoloration in the image below which my camera added, and focus on the gray vertical line in the center of the screen. WHAT IS THIS? DSE? Banding?

Sorry, the image resolution(262p) is too small for me to tell.
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post #570 of 4549 Old 10-07-2012, 11:35 PM
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Sorry, the image resolution(262p) is too small for me to tell.

I saw the bands just fine looking on my computer screen.

From what I can tell is that there seems to be about at least three dominant like gray bands with a lot of other subtle bands.
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