Sony XBR-HX950 Owners' Thread (XBR-55HX9​50 and XBR-65HX95​0) - Page 25 - AVS Forum
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post #721 of 4538 Old 10-16-2012, 10:37 AM
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I just wanted to thank everyone for their input on this thread...it's been very informative. I'm looking to upgrade my TV soon and I'm giving this Sony a good hard look. And a BIG thank you to Flavius for the excellent reviews so far! I currently have a Samsung UN55C8000 and a Samsung BD-6900 Blu-ray player...I've got the Blu-ray player hooked up to my Onkyo HT-S770 home theater system, which in turn is hooked up to my TV. The image quality has always seemed a little soft to me on the Blu-rays, so I'd like to get a TV with razor-sharp PQ and this Sony sounds like it might be a great TV for that sharp PQ I've been looking for.

Samsung KN55S9C OLED TV
LG EL9500 OLED TV
Sony XEL-1 OLED TV
Samsung UN55C8000 3D LED TV
Samsung BD-C6900 and BD-F5900 3D Blu-ray players
Onkyo HT-S770 home theater system
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post #722 of 4538 Old 10-16-2012, 10:45 AM
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Wow! what a demanding crowd....... he promised he would get to it just be patient, he also has a life.

*Sony XBR 929 & Sony XBR8-Denon 3311CI-Mirage V2 FS speakers w/S10 Sub-Oppo 93-Darbee DVP5000-Harmony 1100
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post #723 of 4538 Old 10-16-2012, 11:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Op's Guy View Post

I hoping you were doing that by now! When does your 65" come in?

Guess I'm not one of the lucky ones..my estimated ship date still says October 26th. FML...I been checkin email and my Sony account like 50 times a day to see if anything is updated and nothing. Lol...I want this thing in my living room already!

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post #724 of 4538 Old 10-16-2012, 11:47 AM
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Guess I'm not one of the lucky ones..my estimated ship date still says October 26th. FML...I been checkin email and my Sony account like 50 times a day to see if anything is updated and nothing. Lol...I want this thing in my living room already!

When you get it, I need to compare banding with you, and I will need your opinion on 3D game crosstalk. Unless you don't game of course. smile.gif I thought my HX950 had too much banding until I got the ES8000 and saw what REAL banding looks like. rolleyes.gif
Still incredible that CCFL and plasma have no banding. Something's not quite right with this LED tech.
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post #725 of 4538 Old 10-16-2012, 11:48 AM
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Wow! what a demanding crowd....... he promised he would get to it just be patient, he also has a life.

Thanks... I'll get to everyone's requests. EVENTUALLY. You will need a lot of patience.
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post #726 of 4538 Old 10-16-2012, 11:48 AM
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Originally Posted by isupes View Post

Guess I'm not one of the lucky ones..my estimated ship date still says October 26th. FML...I been checkin email and my Sony account like 50 times a day to see if anything is updated and nothing. Lol...I want this thing in my living room already!

Hopefully soon. As we discussed, keep me posted.
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post #727 of 4538 Old 10-16-2012, 11:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Flavius View Post

When you get it, I need to compare banding with you, and I will need your opinion on 3D game crosstalk. Unless you don't game of course. smile.gif I thought my HX950 had too much banding until I got the ES8000 and saw what REAL banding looks like. rolleyes.gif
Still incredible that CCFL and plasma have no banding. Something's not quite right with this LED tech.

I hate to say I told you so, but I told you so. Haha. Like I said before, coming from those Samsung panels, if my 950 panel looks as good as yours I will be one happy camper.

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post #728 of 4538 Old 10-16-2012, 11:58 AM
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Wow! what a demanding crowd....... he promised he would get to it just be patient, he also has a life.

Ok Father Time...you be patient. I just ordered the tv so I will be anxious and excited. I lost my patience 4 TV's ago with Samsung. I will ask my questions. He will answer when ready. Flavius is a big boy and can handle his own. We don't need a referee. Thank you.wink.gif

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post #729 of 4538 Old 10-16-2012, 12:28 PM
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Gosh, I just tried a bunch of cameras, but none of them can properly capture what I am seeing right now: Both TVs have a yellow Spike Original logo on them right now (1080i) on all black background. TVs are calibrated so that to my eyes on a full scene image, the TVs are of very equal brightness. Both TVs on "standard". But when switching to this type of "bright only in the middle" image, HX950 has a very bright and punchy yellow logo (think bright Simpsons) with no sharpness artifacts even though Sharpness is at 100. The ES8000 meanwhile is a super dull dark yellow gray (think taxi cab badly in need of a car wash). What is worse, the logo shows VERY BAD sharpness artifacts on the ES8000... like someone went crazy with the sharpness filter in Photoshop. The Sony has none of these artifacts. Sharpness is 50 on Samsung, 100 on Sony. The only way to make the sharpness artifacts go away on the Samsung and make it look like Sharpness 100 on the Sony is to bring Samsung Sharpness to 0. It just boggles my mind. There is some haloing around the logo on the Sony of course, but nothing distracting.

There is no doubt in my mind now that the HX950 is the keeper in this contest. Unless all you want to do is 3D game, this comparison is a waste of time. But I will keep doing it anyway.

By the way, I have seen similar results with the bright white crest in the Gladiator BluRay loading screens.
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post #730 of 4538 Old 10-16-2012, 12:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Flavius View Post

Gosh, I just tried a bunch of cameras, but none of them can properly capture what I am seeing right now: Both TVs have a yellow Spike Original logo on them right now (1080i) on all black background. TVs are calibrated so that to my eyes on a full scene image, the TVs are of very equal brightness. Both TVs on "standard". But when switching to this type of "bright only in the middle" image, HX950 has a very bright and punchy yellow logo (think bright Simpsons) with no sharpness artifacts even though Sharpness is at 100. The ES8000 meanwhile is a super dull dark yellow gray (think taxi cab badly in need of a car wash). What is worse, the logo shows VERY BAD sharpness artifacts on the ES8000... like someone went crazy with the sharpness filter in Photoshop. The Sony has none of these artifacts. Sharpness is 50 on Samsung, 100 on Sony. The only way to make the sharpness artifacts go away on the Samsung and make it look like Sharpness 100 on the Sony is to bring Samsung Sharpness to 0. It just boggles my mind. There is some haloing around the logo on the Sony of course, but nothing distracting.
There is no doubt in my mind now that the HX950 is the keeper in this contest. Unless all you want to do is 3D game, this comparison is a waste of time. But I will keep doing it anyway.
By the way, I have seen similar results with the bright white crest in the Gladiator BluRay loading screens.

I had to keep my sharpness down to about 15 and contrast down to about 80-85 on the es8000. If raised higher it would introduce heavy noise and artifacts to the picture.

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post #731 of 4538 Old 10-16-2012, 12:58 PM
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@Flavius just realized I didn't reply about gaming. I do play, but I have an Xbox 360 slim. It doesn't do native 3D, only side by side, so I don't know if that will make a difference in the performance of it. Gears of War looked pretty good on the samsung but i didn't get to try it very long.I will be trying with the Xpand 104 3D glasses also. From what I've read the shudder is really fast with these reducing flicker to minimum. Hopefully they reduce cross-talk even further also. I will also post pics of the panel and my impressions when I FINALLY receive it. Thanks again for all your testing and fiddling around with both TV's, though in my mind I had already predicted the outcome.

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post #732 of 4538 Old 10-16-2012, 01:39 PM
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Originally Posted by isupes View Post

@Flavius just realized I didn't reply about gaming. I do play, but I have an Xbox 360 slim. It doesn't do native 3D, only side by side, so I don't know if that will make a difference in the performance of it. Gears of War looked pretty good on the samsung but i didn't get to try it very long.I will be trying with the Xpand 104 3D glasses also. From what I've read the shudder is really fast with these reducing flicker to minimum. Hopefully they reduce cross-talk even further also. I will also post pics of the panel and my impressions when I FINALLY receive it. Thanks again for all your testing and fiddling around with both TV's, though in my mind I had already predicted the outcome.

I think the 360 does do native 3D?? Where did you read that it does not? I have a bunch of 3D games for both 360 and PS3 including Halo CE, Gears, Crysis 2, etc. I get the worst crosstalk with Halo CE. But could it be because it doesn't do real 3D but only Side by Side?? Hmmm.

On the positive front, I just got Avatar 3D BluRay in the mail today! I'll report on it tonight.

EDIT: Supposedly Halo CE does top-bottom 3D. I can't tell the difference from looking at it, I mean what I see is still a double side by side image with glasses off!? But if its not native, it may explain why it has SO much more crosstalk than movies do. (even on the Samsung though that does a much better job of hiding it). Going to try the native Batman AA later and report back. Supposedly the only "native" game for 360.

EDIT2: I don't have a good understand of top/bottom and sidebyside, by other people report Halo CE is indeed native 3D. Hmmm. Who to believe.

EDIT3: Researching it, the 360 got a stereoscopic 3D update recently and can now do native 3D. The Halo CE top bottom info is from a press release dated to before the game launched. It now supposedly has stereoscopic native 3D. So much for that theory. It's possible that Gears 3 has not been updated from SBS to native yet. Who knows... so confusing. I give up.
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post #733 of 4538 Old 10-16-2012, 01:48 PM
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I think the 360 does do native 3D?? Where did you read that it does not? I have a bunch of 3D games for both 360 and PS3 including Halo CE, Gears, Crysis 2, etc. I get the worst crosstalk with Halo CE. But could it be because it doesn't do real 3D but only Side by Side?? Hmmm.
On the positive front, I just got Avatar 3D BluRay in the mail today! I'll report on it tonight.

Every 3D game I've played on it, when I turned 3D on the game, I get the side by side image. Then I'd have to manually enable 3D on the tv by pressing the 3D button on the control and choosing the type of 3D it was...SBS, top/bottom, etc. On the PS3 does it natively so you don't have to go through the rigmarole of choosing the type of 3D it is and imputing manually. This is all taken care of by the playstation. This is a big feature being demanded of the next Xbox iteration. This and bluray, of course.

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post #734 of 4538 Old 10-16-2012, 02:04 PM
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I'm going to make a bold, but perhaps unsurprising statement: No edge-lit set or even fully array non-local dimming set can ever hope to compete with the HX950. The only competition is from Elite and Panasonic plasma (not even Samsung plasma). I don't know, is that bold, or just "duh" worthy? biggrin.gif

Well, edge lit is obviously the inferior technology. Edge lit won't even give totally even backlighting; Whereas with the array they can have better blacks more even backlighting, though they are still limited by the number of lights in the array. OLED, does offer some hope of even better black levels; But, so far they haven't scaled in a way that would allow for home TVs to work. They also have other issues with properly rendering some colors. So, for now, it is plasma or full array to get the best picture. The question is, with most companies losing money in the TV market, if they will invest much in it in the future.
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post #735 of 4538 Old 10-16-2012, 02:36 PM
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Well, edge lit is obviously the inferior technology. Edge lit won't even give totally even backlighting; Whereas with the array they can have better blacks more even backlighting, though they are still limited by the number of lights in the array. OLED, does offer some hope of even better black levels; But, so far they haven't scaled in a way that would allow for home TVs to work. They also have other issues with properly rendering some colors. So, for now, it is plasma or full array to get the best picture. The question is, with most companies losing money in the TV market, if they will invest much in it in the future.


If you saw the Dynamic Edge Backlighting they, Sony, have put in their HX850 and HX750 series of tv's you wouldnt say its inferior. I have the HX750 and the backlighting is even across the board to my eye with deep black's. And the experts out there say the HX850 is even better. If you get the chance read the review of the 55inch HX850 on Home Theater Magazines website. I think Sony may have changed the game when it comes to Edge backlighting.
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post #736 of 4538 Old 10-16-2012, 02:44 PM
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Ok Father Time...you be patient. I just ordered the tv so I will be anxious and excited. I lost my patience 4 TV's ago with Samsung. I will ask my questions. He will answer when ready. Flavius is a big boy and can handle his own. We don't need a referee. Thank you.wink.gif

Both those posts made me actually laugh smile.gif
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post #737 of 4538 Old 10-16-2012, 02:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Flavius View Post

Gosh, I just tried a bunch of cameras, but none of them can properly capture what I am seeing right now: Both TVs have a yellow Spike Original logo on them right now (1080i) on all black background. TVs are calibrated so that to my eyes on a full scene image, the TVs are of very equal brightness. Both TVs on "standard". But when switching to this type of "bright only in the middle" image, HX950 has a very bright and punchy yellow logo (think bright Simpsons) with no sharpness artifacts even though Sharpness is at 100. The ES8000 meanwhile is a super dull dark yellow gray (think taxi cab badly in need of a car wash). What is worse, the logo shows VERY BAD sharpness artifacts on the ES8000... like someone went crazy with the sharpness filter in Photoshop. The Sony has none of these artifacts. Sharpness is 50 on Samsung, 100 on Sony. The only way to make the sharpness artifacts go away on the Samsung and make it look like Sharpness 100 on the Sony is to bring Samsung Sharpness to 0. It just boggles my mind. There is some haloing around the logo on the Sony of course, but nothing distracting.
There is no doubt in my mind now that the HX950 is the keeper in this contest. Unless all you want to do is 3D game, this comparison is a waste of time. But I will keep doing it anyway.
By the way, I have seen similar results with the bright white crest in the Gladiator BluRay loading screens.

Thanks, Flavius. Just so you know though, most people run the ES with a Sharpness between 0 and 20. Mine is at 16 or 17 with no artifacts. Out of the box though, I freaked out, especially with photos at first.
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post #738 of 4538 Old 10-16-2012, 03:19 PM
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Every 3D game I've played on it, when I turned 3D on the game, I get the side by side image. Then I'd have to manually enable 3D on the tv by pressing the 3D button on the control and choosing the type of 3D it was...SBS, top/bottom, etc. On the PS3 does it natively so you don't have to go through the rigmarole of choosing the type of 3D it is and imputing manually. This is all taken care of by the playstation. This is a big feature being demanded of the next Xbox iteration. This and bluray, of course.

Yes I know, but the Xbox 360 does this natively now too. Don't you have the latest dasboard update? I don't have to tell the game anything, I just enable 3D in the dasbboard settings, then enable it the game, and boom, it works. No having to press the 3D button on the TV! At least that's how it is for Halo CE. No need to wait for next Xbox.

I think you have obsolete information, sir! smile.gif
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post #739 of 4538 Old 10-16-2012, 03:29 PM
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Yes I know, but the Xbox 360 does this natively now too. Don't you have the latest dasboard update? I don't have to tell the game anything, I just enable 3D in the dasbboard settings, then enable it the game, and boom, it works. No having to press the 3D button on the TV! At least that's how it is for Halo CE. No need to wait for next Xbox.
I think you have obsolete information, sir! smile.gif

Hmmm. Not sure what's going on. I must not have the newest update then, though I thought I did. I think they released a new dashboard update today too if I'm not mistaken.

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Please help.

I cannot figure this out. I have a mac mini hooked up to the Sony via HDMI. When I play a MKV movie it is not smooth. It has a little lag when watching it. BUT on my plasma no issues. ANY Idea how I can fix this. I watch a lot of MKV movies on my Mac Mini. Any suggestion would be great. I have spent 4 days trying to figure this out?
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post #741 of 4538 Old 10-16-2012, 03:42 PM
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Originally Posted by steve1971 View Post

If you saw the Dynamic Edge Backlighting they, Sony, have put in their HX850 and HX750 series of tv's you wouldnt say its inferior. I have the HX750 and the backlighting is even across the board to my eye with deep black's. And the experts out there say the HX850 is even better. If you get the chance read the review of the 55inch HX850 on Home Theater Magazines website. I think Sony may have changed the game when it comes to Edge backlighting.

The only drawback to edgelit technology is they can't use it in larger screens 65" without losing lighting quality.

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post #742 of 4538 Old 10-16-2012, 03:49 PM
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Please help.
I cannot figure this out. I have a mac mini hooked up to the Sony via HDMI. When I play a MKV movie it is not smooth. It has a little lag when watching it. BUT on my plasma no issues. ANY Idea how I can fix this. I watch a lot of MKV movies on my Mac Mini. Any suggestion would be great. I have spent 4 days trying to figure this out?

Two suggestions:

1) Try Game mode if the issue really is lag.

2) Experiment with combinations of MotionFlow and CinemaMotion. Standard and Auto 1 produces the best results on my end with a perfect compromise between reduced judder yet no movie soap opera effect or motion artifacts.
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post #743 of 4538 Old 10-16-2012, 04:33 PM
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So far, this set is very comparable to the XBR8 with fabulous 2D quality, brightness, and contrast. I can definitely see a difference in the number of backlighting zones when using it as a PC monitor. Move the mouse cursor around on an all black background with the backlight on max, you can see the smaller zones lighting up. Yes, max backlighting is too much for normal use, IMHO, and reducing the backlighting helps.
Then compared to the Panny VT50 plasma, the HX950 kills it in nearly every category.
The VT50 has loud fans; the HX950 is silent.
The VT50 has pixel noise / plasma dithering and can never hold a steady picture; it is like it has an extra level of film grain. Try the Zone Plate test on the WOW disc to see what I mean. The HX950 is solid and locked on.
The VT50 flickers like crazy, even when playing 24 fps movies at 96 Hz. The HX950 is completely flicker free, and even a lot better than my XBR8 was.
The VT50 had some kind of horizontal bleeding / discoloration depending on what was being displayed. Visiting some webpages really highlighted this.
The VT50 has a big image retention / burn-in problem, which was only made worse if you cranked up the brightness so the whites would look white.
I couldn't quite put my finger on what caused it, but in some movement on the VT50, especially around flesh tones & contrast, you might could see an unnatural red or green shadow with the movement.
Blacks levels are better on the HX950, and fade to black scenes are totally pitch black vs only a dark gray on the VT50.
There is some blooming around the local dimming zones in the HX950 around high contrast areas, so I might give the edge to the VT50 in that one category, but compared with everything else, a local dimming zone LED LCD is the best compromise on price, performance, and features for me. It is not perfect, and I'm not sure if there ever will be one that is perfect within my budget, but I'm very happy with the initial experience.
And now for some movie time!

I too will be returning my Panasonic VT50 for the Sony XBR950. I was all too careful during the break in period, but after constant calibration the navi prompt "burned in". I was wondering if you have any idea what the input lag is, as it pertains to game mode?

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post #744 of 4538 Old 10-16-2012, 04:37 PM
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"No edge-lit set or even fully array non-local dimming set can ever hope to compete with the HX950. The only competition is from Elite and Panasonic plasma (not even Samsung plasma). I don't know, is that bold, or just "duh" worthy?"

No, just an opinion. Actually, the only competition for this year's Panasonic Plasmas are the Samsung Plasmas and the Sharp Elite and HX950 if one must have a LCD. Again, just an opinion.

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post #745 of 4538 Old 10-16-2012, 05:00 PM
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I too will be returning my Panasonic VT50 for the Sony XBR950. I was all too careful during the break in period, but after constant calibration the navi prompt "burned in". I was wondering if you have any idea what the input lag is, as it pertains to game mode?

See my post on input lag and game mode. The HX950 is very fast with game mode off, much faster than the ES8000 with Game Mode off. About 40ms faster. And with Game Mode on, it is just as fast. So if two of the top tier LCDs on the market from major brands are not fast enough in game mode for you, I don't know what to tell you. Once I return the ES8000, I will work on coming up with some exact numbers. But it won't be easy, because you always need a baseline to compare to, and I no longer have a CRT. However, I have an old TV (A650) with a well measured lag amount in Game mode. Like everything else, answers will come because I love investigating these things, but it will take a few weeks.
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post #746 of 4538 Old 10-16-2012, 05:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Flavius

Will definitely post comparisons of the ES8000 and 65HX950 though next week, I owe you guys that much.

Hi Flavius,
I'm also looking forward to your comparison, ES8000 vs 65HX950.
When compairing, if you would, filter in the viewing angles of both units.

I spent quite a bit of time with the ES8000 and the ES9000. Blu-Ray Dark Knight, movie mode both sets. Tweaked both units as good as I could under the stores florescent lights.
What I found was both Samsung TV's PQ looked better off dead center. Dead center, sitting down, looking straight into the screens, both sets were too black, not enough contrast. Take two steps to the left or right and contrast was perfect. If I tweaked the sets for good contrast dead center, I'd loose inky black and colors would fade. Then moving left or right, one seating position, the set looked terrible. Yeah, whatsupwiththat! They have better contrast PQ not sitting in the sweet spot, but off center?

I spent just as much time with the 70" Sharp Elite and the 65HX929. Their straight on was excellent and off center viewing was very good for an led.

I was hoping this year the Elite v2 would come to market fixing the color and pulsing and Sony would fix the banding.

We don't know if the Elite v2 will come to market.
We don't know if the HX950 is just a rebadged HX929.
The ES9000 has the same viewing problem the ES8000 has. PQ is better not sitting directly in front of it.




FLAVIUS, what was your take on the viewing angles, ES8000 vs HX950?

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post #747 of 4538 Old 10-16-2012, 05:53 PM
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Holy crap guys! Just checked my Sony account, my 65HX950 is shipping tomorrow!

----We are not the same. I am an alien.----
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post #748 of 4538 Old 10-16-2012, 05:54 PM
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Hey Rizz......would you please PM me your latest settings...Thanks in advance
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post #749 of 4538 Old 10-16-2012, 05:55 PM
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Went to my BB and have my two Panny Plasmas going back and paid the difference for a couple 65" 950s. They deliver on thursday this week. Crossing my fingers for no dead or stuck pixels and otherwise good panels. I hate switching TVs out, but at this price point, it should be perfect. I'll update you guys with my results once I have them in.
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post #750 of 4538 Old 10-16-2012, 05:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by isupes View Post

Holy crap guys! Just checked my Sony account, my 65HX950 is shipping tomorrow!

Congrats! I will be jealous if yours is completely free of banding! But after seeing the ES8000 clearly I've made a mountain out of a molehill.
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