Sony XBR-HX950 Owners' Thread (XBR-55HX9​50 and XBR-65HX95​0) - Page 58 - AVS Forum
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post #1711 of 4525 Old 11-21-2012, 01:28 PM
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Is there a calibration thread for this model?
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post #1712 of 4525 Old 11-21-2012, 01:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by superfreckles View Post

The one opportunity I had involved comparing a 46" 929 and a 65" 950 so I'm not sure if this was entirely fair, however they looked about the same to me. The reason I chose the HX950 was because I got a good deal ($2800) making them cost the same, and I thought the 950 was prettier (in terms of design, not PQ). The 929 has a built in camera which does have some neat features like being able to tell if people are in the room and shutting off the tv if it doesn't detect any. I didn't see a huge difference in PQ between the two but I wasn't looking for one, and with the size difference it can be difficult to determine because large screens can stretch things out sometimes and make them look worse while smaller screens can appear more detailed depending on what you are watching. So I dunno. But I didn't notice a huge difference between them.


You are 100% correct in what you observe................i too made the same conclusion from my observation of them both.
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post #1713 of 4525 Old 11-21-2012, 01:40 PM
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Interestingly, I just read a review in the latest Home Theater magazine, and they gave the edge lit 55HX850 a higher rating than the 55HX929 LED. In fact they gave the 850 their highest rating. What gives?eek.gifconfused.gif
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post #1714 of 4525 Old 11-21-2012, 01:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gbaby View Post

Interestingly, I just read a review in the latest Home Theater magazine, and they gave the edge lit 55HX850 a higher rating than the 55HX929 LED. In fact they gave the 850 their highest rating. What gives?eek.gifconfused.gif

paid review as any others as well
trust to your eyes
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post #1715 of 4525 Old 11-21-2012, 02:41 PM
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Originally Posted by gbaby View Post

Interestingly, I just read a review in the latest Home Theater magazine, and they gave the edge lit 55HX850 a higher rating than the 55HX929 LED. In fact they gave the 850 their highest rating. What gives?eek.gifconfused.gif

If they are like cnet, they may have added "value" into there equation. Which, at the price, would bring the rating down.

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post #1716 of 4525 Old 11-21-2012, 03:23 PM
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I don't think value should be equated into a rating. Mention it in the review and mention the competition, sure, but there is an issue with reviewers and people blindly following everything that appears to have the best value without caring for picture quality. Instead of focusing on discreet but important differences between two televisions I've often seen them going "well there is a difference, but this costs ___ more!". I've seen fantastic TVs receive poor ratings because of their price and extremely mediocre TVs rate off the charts because of "value".

Value is in the eye of the beholder. If I made less money than I do I would never consider the HX950 or HX929 or their competition. Doesn't matter how good they are. If the money is worth it to me I don't need a reviewer telling me that. Just tell me the quality.

There are paid reviewers, sponsors, reviewer bias, and many review sites actually have people who don't know what they're doing. I won't say who I worked for, but I did spend some brief time (one year) as a tech journalist when I was in college and they didn't know any more about TVs, monitors, and games than I did. People just gave opinionated rather than fact based reviews. Reviews are good to see what other people think of something but always remember that a human is writing them. Unless they just report the facts by running tests and taking pictures of the TV at multiple angles and thus give it a blind rating based on that you can definitely bet there's some bias there.
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post #1717 of 4525 Old 11-21-2012, 03:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gbaby View Post

Interestingly, I just read a review in the latest Home Theater magazine, and they gave the edge lit 55HX850 a higher rating than the 55HX929 LED. In fact they gave the 850 their highest rating. What gives?eek.gifconfused.gif


I just got done reading the review of the HX850 in Home Theater Magazine and unless I missed something no where did I see they gave the HX850 a higher rating then the 929. But I have read on other websites that the HX850 performed and looked just as good as the 929. Like one person already said "Trust your eyes".
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post #1718 of 4525 Old 11-21-2012, 04:35 PM
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I've been out of this thread for a while, but I did return my 65 to Amazon.com about two weeks ago. I couldn't stand the banding on the screen. Every time the image panned on a light background, it was there. The blacks were incredible, my screen had zero warping, no bad pixel. Except for minor blooming which I couldn't see in normal viewing, it was almost perfect. Are some samples really better than others? Or some people just don't notice it??
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post #1719 of 4525 Old 11-21-2012, 07:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steve1971 View Post

I just got done reading the review of the HX850 in Home Theater Magazine and unless I missed something no where did I see they gave the HX850 a higher rating then the 929. But I have read on other websites that the HX850 performed and looked just as good as the 929. Like one person already said "Trust your eyes".
HX850 is better in 3D, less crosstalk (x4 High speed panel), brighter picture, in 2D have little worse black but much less blooming/halo. Both have exactly same panels. In multimedia is also little better.

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post #1720 of 4525 Old 11-21-2012, 08:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hdfanboy444 View Post

Is there a calibration thread for this model?

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1435724/sony-xbr-hx950-settings-thread

http://www.avsforum.com/g/a/2135446/my-ht/

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post #1721 of 4525 Old 11-21-2012, 10:45 PM
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I was looking at the 65 950 next to the 929 today for comparison. The picture on the 950 was a little less bright and colours slightly more saturated. I was informed the processor in the 950 is the same as in the xbr8 where as the 929 was from the xbr7, apparently the 950 was sharing something? with the 84" but I cannot recall what it was at this time (I believe it was upgraded on the 84" to allow 4K but then shared the component on the 950, pretty sure it was the processor).
There is a 1 lbs weight difference between the 2 on Sony's website.
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post #1722 of 4525 Old 11-21-2012, 11:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by superkelv View Post

I was looking at the 65 950 next to the 929 today for comparison. The picture on the 950 was a little less bright and colours slightly more saturated. I was informed the processor in the 950 is the same as in the xbr8 where as the 929 was from the xbr7, apparently the 950 was sharing something? with the 84" but I cannot recall what it was at this time (I believe it was upgraded on the 84" to allow 4K but then shared the component on the 950, pretty sure it was the processor).
There is a 1 lbs weight difference between the 2 on Sony's website.

Did you compare the 65hx929 to 65hx950 or were they different sizes?

Were picture settings identical on both sets?

Which one would you say had a better overall pq and black levels?

And as far as I know the xbr8/7 were both using the same be2 pro video processor which is far off from what all the newer models are using...
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post #1723 of 4525 Old 11-22-2012, 03:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by superfreckles View Post

The thing that annoys me about CNET is that they have a serious plasma bias.

I think to a certain extent you might be right - and I say that as someone who generally prefers plasma tech. Many reviewers are using similar calibration-based approaches to setting up and evaluating these sets. So, for example, they do their measurements and calibration in a dark or dimly lit room. They will often calibrate for a peak light output of ~120 cd/m^2, which negates any light output advantage an LCD set would have (the HX950 can put out the best part of 400 cd/m^2). Black levels are usually measured in the dark and again that negates the filter advantages LCD TVs have. In theory it should be possible to test how well black levels hold up in a well-lit room, but numerical results from such tests are rarely, if ever, given.

The CNET review is actually rather generous to the HX950 in some respects. For example, David Katzmaier states that "the Sony XBR-HX950 series produces deeper black levels than any current LCD or plasma TV". I expect that in a dark room the HX950 will produce lighter blacks than Panasonic's 2012 plasma TVs. I have already seen measurements elsewhere that are consistent with that expectation.

There are some things Sony could do to improve their chances of a good review. It does not help that they do not offer full calibration controls on their TVs, given that reviewers are in the habit of calibrating sets. For such reviewers, Sony offers an abundance of controls they will never use, in a cluttered and clumsy menu system, and yet leaves out the controls that are needed to get the best color accuracy.
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Originally Posted by superfreckles View Post

The HX850 does not look like garbage compared to any other TV in the cheaper/same price bracket. I never said the TV looked like garbage in general/had bad picture quality. I said that compared to the hx950 it does. I calibrated them myself using recommended settings I found on this very forum in the store to compare the two [...]

That's not a calibration. Calibration involves taking measurements. Applying someone else's settings without taking measurements is something else altogether. Someone else's settings may or may not produce similar results, depending on how similar the TVs are.

I am surprised by the tone of some of the comments here. The CNET review is very positive indeed. The few criticisms there are within the review are well-founded.
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post #1724 of 4525 Old 11-22-2012, 04:49 AM
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RE: post #1556 , 1707
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Originally Posted by Garloo57 View Post

I sent an email to my Best Buy rep and store manger outlining the above. I agree that we are not talking about small potatoes here... I know that even though it is only one dead pixel, it is like the micro scratch that only you can see on the car door; once you know the location your eyes will always gravitate to that spot.. If another set is coming that will make 3- 929's and 3- 950's.. Lets see how Best Buy handles it.....

Here is my response from Best Buy......

Wow, I am truly sorry to hear that. Given the history with the Sonys, and knowing your love for a quality image, I'm curious if you've looked at or entertained the idea of the Panasonic 55vt50, as it's the best TV on the market, my own personal favorite, and in my experience has not come back with any such defects out of the box, let me know if you'd entertain that idea. I'll touch base with Mike about the Sony.

Thanks,

Happy Thanksgiving.





and my response just emailed..


Hi A----,
Happy Thanksgiving to you as well. As for the Panasonic, I don't really want a plasma set. I know that quality control on the XBR panels may be an issue but I know that "good ones" are out there. After all of this effort on both our parts l want and deserve a problem free XBR... Take care.. I know that you will be ultra busy... Just let me know.



11-24-12

I just wanted to attach for the learned followers .. The dead pixel as well as a milky white abnormalady which is is visible on the lower center part of the screen.. it appears to be a cluster effecting at least 3-5 pixel area... Any ideas and would everybody agree that I should request another 950 ???? The picture is otherwise better on this et than the last one which had the screen burn and dead pixel....







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post #1725 of 4525 Old 11-22-2012, 05:36 AM
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Just a quick note to wish everyone a Happy Thanksgiving day to all and your families.

da Rizz'

*Sony XBR 929 & Sony XBR8-Denon 3311CI-Mirage V2 FS speakers w/S10 Sub-Oppo 93-Darbee DVP5000-Harmony 1100
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post #1726 of 4525 Old 11-22-2012, 05:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fluxo View Post

I think to a certain extent you might be right - and I say that as someone who generally prefers plasma tech. Many reviewers are using similar calibration-based approaches to setting up and evaluating these sets. So, for example, they do their measurements and calibration in a dark or dimly lit room. They will often calibrate for a peak light output of ~120 cd/m^2, which negates any light output advantage an LCD set would have (the HX950 can put out the best part of 400 cd/m^2). Black levels are usually measured in the dark and again that negates the filter advantages LCD TVs have. In theory it should be possible to test how well black levels hold up in a well-lit room, but numerical results from such tests are rarely, if ever, given.
The CNET review is actually rather generous to the HX950 in some respects. For example, David Katzmaier states that "the Sony XBR-HX950 series produces deeper black levels than any current LCD or plasma TV". I expect that in a dark room the HX950 will produce lighter blacks than Panasonic's 2012 plasma TVs. I have already seen measurements elsewhere that are consistent with that expectation.
There are some things Sony could do to improve their chances of a good review. It does not help that they do not offer full calibration controls on their TVs, given that reviewers are in the habit of calibrating sets. For such reviewers, Sony offers an abundance of controls they will never use, in a cluttered and clumsy menu system, and yet leaves out the controls that are needed to get the best color accuracy.
That's not a calibration. Calibration involves taking measurements. Applying someone else's settings without taking measurements is something else altogether. Someone else's settings may or may not produce similar results, depending on how similar the TVs are.
I am surprised by the tone of some of the comments here. The CNET review is very positive indeed. The few criticisms there are within the review are well-founded.

Tweaking settings I checked color accuracy, black levels and detail using images and several test DVDs (including HD Benchmark). I'm not sure how else you are supposed to take measurements? I used the recommended settings as a starting point (which was helpful because the way it was set up at the store overly saturated the blues and I had no idea how to fix that at first until I realized which setting changed it). It also helped me to look for any backlight leakage. In an at home environment that changed so I asked for another recommended settings list and tweaked from there. Who says I never took measurements? Don't make assumptions, man.

As for your criticisms with Sony, I agree. Offering fuller control would be a good thing though I do feel as though their UI is more intuitive than the Samsung's I have tried. I think the Panasonic I played with was my favorite in terms of UI. I want to reiterate that I like plasmas, they just unfortunately wouldn't work for my house or media room. The other thing that frustrates me about reviewers is that I have yet to see a reviewer actually try turning off the local dimming to watch for backlight bleeding (it is there on some panels though it's very mild and I have yet to see it horrendously bad). Back to UI though a clunky UI matters a lot less to me than what the TV has to offer. I wish the Sony let me have more control but considering how accurately it is portraying color right now I am not going to complain one bit. Tweaking it further wouldn't give me any major gain in performance.
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post #1727 of 4525 Old 11-22-2012, 12:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by superfreckles View Post

Tweaking settings I checked color accuracy, black levels and detail using images and several test DVDs (including HD Benchmark). I'm not sure how else you are supposed to take measurements? I used the recommended settings as a starting point (which was helpful because the way it was set up at the store overly saturated the blues and I had no idea how to fix that at first until I realized which setting changed it). It also helped me to look for any backlight leakage. In an at home environment that changed so I asked for another recommended settings list and tweaked from there. Who says I never took measurements? Don't make assumptions, man.
As for your criticisms with Sony, I agree. Offering fuller control would be a good thing though I do feel as though their UI is more intuitive than the Samsung's I have tried. I think the Panasonic I played with was my favorite in terms of UI. I want to reiterate that I like plasmas, they just unfortunately wouldn't work for my house or media room. The other thing that frustrates me about reviewers is that I have yet to see a reviewer actually try turning off the local dimming to watch for backlight bleeding (it is there on some panels though it's very mild and I have yet to see it horrendously bad). Back to UI though a clunky UI matters a lot less to me than what the TV has to offer. I wish the Sony let me have more control but considering how accurately it is portraying color right now I am not going to complain one bit. Tweaking it further wouldn't give me any major gain in performance.

you wold need colorimeter sensor
X-Rite i1Display Pro or Spyder4™ PRO or better
all those DVD are just too basic
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post #1728 of 4525 Old 11-22-2012, 05:25 PM
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I got my 55HX950 Tuesday. I used Flavius' settings as a baseline and made minor adjustments. I put on The Three Musketeers from Showtime On Demand and my mother, brother, girlfriend, and nieces were blown away by how detailed, vivid, and smooth the picture looked. They were asking if it was 3D. The opening scene where one of the musketeers emerges from the water Apocalypse Now style looked amazing.

The Dark Night Blu-ray looked amazing as well. My one gripe with the set is the off angle viewing...when you go off axis maybe 30 degrees the picture washes out and degrades. It's not an issue for my situation bc my gf and I watch it and we are both directly in front of the set, but I can see how it might be an issue for sole people.

I put in NHL 13 on ps3 for a quick test and the ice was so bright I had to turn the light sensor on, otherwise I prefer it off. I'm really happy with the set so far.
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post #1729 of 4525 Old 11-22-2012, 06:25 PM
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Just found a dead pixel on my 65HX950. I am really really pissed off. Spending 6K$ on a TV and I get a dead pixel. This is unacceptable.

Will be taking this back to the Sony store and they better give me a new one. If not, they can keep it and i'll spend 2500$ on a 65 inch made by someone else. At least then i won't be crying about the money i spent.
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post #1730 of 4525 Old 11-22-2012, 07:52 PM
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Love the pictures. I was wondering if you can you post more pictures. Do you have the Avengers Movie? If so can you post some night scenes from the movie. smile.gif

I have the Avengers 3D on order from Amazon. After I receive it, I will try to oblige...
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post #1731 of 4525 Old 11-22-2012, 08:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Shazi00 View Post

Just found a dead pixel on my 65HX950. I am really really pissed off. Spending 6K$ on a TV and I get a dead pixel. This is unacceptable.
Will be taking this back to the Sony store and they better give me a new one. If not, they can keep it and i'll spend 2500$ on a 65 inch made by someone else. At least then i won't be crying about the money i spent.

does your tv has any bandings?
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post #1732 of 4525 Old 11-23-2012, 12:02 AM
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does your tv has any bandings?

Nope no banding at all. I checked the screen through every test pattern even a gray pattern and changed contrast and brightness settings and found no issue other than this damn pixel. Now i cant keep my eyes off of it. Its very prominent in red and white backgrounds. The green and blue portion of the pixel works fine but the red is completely dead. Even on a 65 inch screen..its pretty noticeable from 7 feet away frown.gif

I hope they exchange it at the Sony store otherwise i'm returning this.
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post #1733 of 4525 Old 11-23-2012, 12:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Shazi00 View Post

Nope no banding at all. I checked the screen through every test pattern even a gray pattern and changed contrast and brightness settings and found no issue other than this damn pixel. Now i cant keep my eyes off of it. Its very prominent in red and white backgrounds. The green and blue portion of the pixel works fine but the red is completely dead. Even on a 65 inch screen..its pretty noticeable from 7 feet away frown.gif
I hope they exchange it at the Sony store otherwise i'm returning this.

Well, if they won't exchange it, I guess you could just ask for your money back. Then buy another one from the store 30 seconds later lol.
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post #1734 of 4525 Old 11-23-2012, 01:04 AM
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Originally Posted by englechgc View Post

I own the xpands 104's and they are the best 3D glasses for the 929 that i have used. No head tilt issues because they use horizontal and vetical filters. I've owned the 250's and 750's and neither were in the league of the Xpands. Plus they are light and fit well over glasses is you where them.1.gif
This one ? http://www.amazon.com/Xpand-X104LX1-YOUniversal-Glasses-Large-Blue/dp/B0062G4728

Sony 46HX850 | Sony 46Z4500 | Onkyo 905, Monitor Audio RX8 + RX LCR | Logitech Z-680 | HTPC: (Core i5 4570S, Asus H87M-PRO, 4GB, Intel X25-M 80GB SSD, WD20EARS, Pionner BDC-202, Antec Fusion Remote Black)
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post #1735 of 4525 Old 11-23-2012, 02:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shazi00 View Post

Nope no banding at all. I checked the screen through every test pattern even a gray pattern and changed contrast and brightness settings and found no issue other than this damn pixel. Now i cant keep my eyes off of it. Its very prominent in red and white backgrounds. The green and blue portion of the pixel works fine but the red is completely dead. Even on a 65 inch screen..its pretty noticeable from 7 feet away frown.gif
I hope they exchange it at the Sony store otherwise i'm returning this.

thanks for the answer
looks like there are 65" without bandings - this is good news, just some dead pixel(s) due to QC
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post #1736 of 4525 Old 11-23-2012, 05:24 AM
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Sony has (in the past) denied pixel failure of less than 4 in a specific grid area, this was 2 yrs ago I don't know if they have revised that requirement. Amazon has a better policy in this regard than Sony's site has. And in the case of several 929 owner's complaints, have responded that those anomaly's fall within Sony's acceptable quality range. (????) I agree that any abnormalities on a set, in this price range, is completely unacceptable.

*Sony XBR 929 & Sony XBR8-Denon 3311CI-Mirage V2 FS speakers w/S10 Sub-Oppo 93-Darbee DVP5000-Harmony 1100
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post #1737 of 4525 Old 11-23-2012, 06:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IMRIZZO View Post

Sony has (in the past) denied pixel failure of less than 4 in a specific grid area, this was 2 yrs ago I don't know if they have revised that requirement. Amazon has a better policy in this regard than Sony's site has. And in the case of several 929 owner's complaints, have responded that those anomaly's fall within Sony's acceptable quality range. (????) I agree that any abnormalities on a set, in this price range, is completely unacceptable.

Sony's limited warranty typically stipulates that up to .01% pixel outage is considered within normal range. That's their official policy, but even dealing directly with Sony, if you are persistent you can probably get them to concede on this point.

As Rizzo points out, Amazon and most reputable resellers will accept returns within the initial ownership period (typically 30 days) if you are dissatisfied with the set for any reason. I know that several BestBuy Magnolia CSR's have told me (with a pained look on their face) that they have accepted returns without question even when it's perfectly obvious that the buyer had damaged the set himself.
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post #1738 of 4525 Old 11-23-2012, 09:10 AM
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Originally Posted by chi_guy50 View Post

Sony's limited warranty typically stipulates that up to .01% pixel outage is considered within normal range. That's their official policy, but even dealing directly with Sony, if you are persistent you can probably get them to concede on this point.

So all the 1080p TVs has 1920x1080 = 2,073,600 pixels. So 0.01% is 207 dead pixels, that is still within the normal range according to this?
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post #1739 of 4525 Old 11-23-2012, 09:35 AM
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Where one could find a good guide on the optimal settings in general and per device? E.g., optimal setting for the hdmi cable programming viewing, for pc connected over hdmi, etc.

I've found a few articles which was useful, e.g., an advice to set the full pixel and disable display area detection but I feel that there is much more to it.
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post #1740 of 4525 Old 11-23-2012, 09:49 AM
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I'm considering ordering one of these, but my concern with this set is the input lag (it is an LCD, after all). I use my TV's primarily for console gaming (occasional movies/tv), so a noticeable ampount of input lag would definitely be a deal-breaker for me. For this reason, I'm torn between this set and the Panasonic VT50.7.gif

If you're not playing video games on a computer monitor input lag is always an issue. The plasmas only get you on average 5ms faster. My LED computer monitor has <5ms on it. Unless you're playing FPSs input lag isn't something to think much of until you go over the 32ms range. The 929 did very well on input lag tests, but I haven't seen one on the 950 yet. That being said, the VT50 is a great TV. Buy a TV because it's right for your living room. Under 32ms input lag should do it whether it's LED or Plasma.
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Originally Posted by Shazi00 View Post

Just found a dead pixel on my 65HX950. I am really really pissed off. Spending 6K$ on a TV and I get a dead pixel. This is unacceptable.
Will be taking this back to the Sony store and they better give me a new one. If not, they can keep it and i'll spend 2500$ on a 65 inch made by someone else. At least then i won't be crying about the money i spent.

I can understand your rage. Buying a higher quality set can lower your risk of having dead pixels but there will never be an LCD TV or Monitor that is immune to them. I just want to advise you that it's not really a Sony problem and this happens with every manufacturer. A larger TV, more components = more area that risks failure. Bigger the screen, the bigger the risk. The biggest and most unfortunate problem with this is that most manufacturers (if not all) insist on a certain percentage of failure before replacing the unit. There is no way to guarantee a screen without dead pixels as of right now, though the quality of the components (namely the transistors) can have an effect on your risk factor. I hope Sony gives you a new one but I can't guarantee it. It's a difficult issue an many manufacturers don't care enough to spend time and money researching ways to improve this problem.
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