Elite 70 vs Sharp 90 - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 25 Old 10-11-2012, 11:05 AM - Thread Starter
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So we just bought a new house and I need/want to almost start from scratch. Part of the decision is going to be about which TV to use in my new Home Theater in the basement. I currently have a Panasonic 65vt30 that I will put in the family room of the new house once we move. So for the basement HT, I am struggling with the Elite 70 versus the Sharp 90. I have seen both but only in the showrooms so hard to get a great impression. I know the Elite has terrific reviews so I would consider that the videophile set. I have seen the Sharp 90 and know it doesn’t have the black levels of the elite but the picture was better than I had expected both times I went to view it. So it is size versus quality. Looking for opinions/feedback to help push me one way or another.
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post #2 of 25 Old 10-11-2012, 09:31 PM
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Elite hands down... The dynamic range, black levels and 3D on the Elite are the best in class IMO. The 90in Sharp doesn't justify the cost.. The tech isnt there.. The customer service is much more personal for Elite than Sharp's main support group. If you needed a bigger screen, just get a high end projector at $3K... Use the other 7K on sound :-D

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post #3 of 25 Old 10-12-2012, 01:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DJ Mike Fury View Post

Elite hands down... The dynamic range, black levels and 3D on the Elite are the best in class IMO. The 90in Sharp doesn't justify the cost.. The tech isnt there.. The customer service is much more personal for Elite than Sharp's main support group. If you needed a bigger screen, just get a high end projector at $3K... Use the other 7K on sound :-D

'nuff said.
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post #4 of 25 Old 10-12-2012, 03:02 AM
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I say go for the 90. The 70 is to small to be emersive. A projector (mentioned above), you have to set in the dark ALL the time. So size vs quality, the 90 is plenty good enough!
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post #5 of 25 Old 10-12-2012, 04:38 AM - Thread Starter
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Thank you for the feedback. I am considering a projector as well but it has to be family friendly as I have two daughters (11 and 14..so they aren't babies anymore) that I also want to be able to enjoy the basement and use the TV/Projector for daily viewing. That is why I am leaning towards a flat panel. Keep the opinions coming smile.gif
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post #6 of 25 Old 10-12-2012, 05:51 AM
 
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The 90 is plenty good.
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post #7 of 25 Old 10-12-2012, 05:59 AM
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as an elite owner, i'd say go with....the 90. the elite is absolutely brilliant for what it is, but the sheer size and pop of the 90 is going to be more impressive to most people. also, as mentioned, the 90 will give you that more immersive experience you want in a dedicated HT room.
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post #8 of 25 Old 10-12-2012, 06:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DJ Mike Fury View Post

Elite hands down... The dynamic range, black levels and 3D on the Elite are the best in class IMO. The 90in Sharp doesn't justify the cost.. The tech isnt there.. The customer service is much more personal for Elite than Sharp's main support group. If you needed a bigger screen, just get a high end projector at $3K... Use the other 7K on sound :-D

"customer service is much more personal for Elite"

bologna..it's the same frickin call center, just different dedicated 800# so they can identify whose calling in.

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post #9 of 25 Old 10-12-2012, 06:26 AM
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Same call center, but Elite is a different line.. Therefore less wait time.. It is dealing with one product, separate line... Sharp has a whole other line dealing with a much larger volume of products and customers which will increase wait time and I know it does.. My gf has a Sharp 835 and regular customer support blows in comparison.. We personally dealt with both scenarios first hand.. A lot more was accomplished with Elite as far as trouble shooting.. Not to mention, the concierge service is a nice feature to boot.. Don't get your panties in a bunch.. It's not that serious lol

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post #10 of 25 Old 10-12-2012, 08:17 AM
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If you have no plans for a projector, then go for the 90. Otherwise.... tough call.
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post #11 of 25 Old 10-12-2012, 03:37 PM
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A big no on the 90. Get a JVC front projection and upgrade to 7.1 or 9.1 sound
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post #12 of 25 Old 10-12-2012, 05:13 PM
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One of your most important considerations when comparing the Sharp LC-90 with a same sized screen projector is how much and how often do you currently use your HDTV : if you and your family use the TV for many hours every day, do you really want to be concerned about bulb replacement, bulb exploding, colors changing throughout the life of the bulb, bulb cost replacement and availability, removing and opening the pj for new bulb installation, etc, etc.
You should also take into consideration where to place the projector (ceiling mount, table mount, shelf mount), the quality and gain of the screen, the distance involved, etc.
I own a LED projector from Runco exactly for such reason, however every time i go to the local Best Buy i just stand there mesmerized by that beautifully huge 80" picture of the Sharp LC-844 and i can just imagine what a 90" image would look like.
The only "problems" i have with these huge LCD HDTVs are shipping damage, panel quality/exchange allowed, reliability and repairs; I imagine the first problem could be easily solved by discussing the matter with the vendor, the second problem involves dead pixels, panel corners brighter than other areas of the screen, "banding" etc, but what would give me pause for such purchase is the reliability of these new huge LCD panels (although technically they are nothing more than larger panels cut from the same LCD mother glass that is used for smaller sized panels, but are these much larger panels as reliable as their smaller siblings ?) and if your Sharp LC-90 ever needs repairs, could it be done in-field or would you have to deal with the very difficult task of boxing it very/very carefully, finding a reliable shipping carrier and possibly having to pay for return shipping costs.
Personally i feel that Sharp should have designed these huge LCD panels from inception to be fully in-field serviceable with parts that could be easily swapped; After all, the biggest parts of these large screens is the LCD "glass" and the full array of LED backlights, both of which are apparently very/very reliable and once tested and quality-approved after manufacture at the factory should offer at least 50.000 hours of trouble-free use, whereas the other internal parts needed for repairs are smaller and could be easily stocked and carried by a trained repair tech.
If Sharp had offered such assurance i imagine all buyers would feel extremely confident going ahead with purchase of such humongous piece of tightly packed electronic equipment...
BTW, ultimateavmag,com reviewed the Sharp LC-90 last month and it received a very/very good review, with an excellent black level of only 0.002 ft-L (compared to the Pioneer Kuro and Sharp Elite that measured 0.001 ft-L), hardly any noticeable brighter corners and banding but poor 3D performance, which has apparently been rectified by Sharp in later production run.
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post #13 of 25 Old 10-12-2012, 07:02 PM
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If you have the money go for the 90. I have the 70 and it's too small at my viewing distance of 9-10ft.

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post #14 of 25 Old 10-13-2012, 06:11 AM
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A 90 Elite would do the trick!biggrin.gif

More seriously, about the only thing that kept me from bying the Elite is it's size: I want a bigger than 70" HDTV as I currently own a 65". I saw the 90 a few times now and really like the size and the PQ while not beeing awesome is still better than I thought it would be before having seen it. But then there's the Elite just in front of it that has way better blacks (more deep and less bluish off angles) and a little better off angle PQ. According to the Home Theater review the 90 can indeed go down to 0.002 ft-L but one has to set the backlight to -12 to achieve this which will result in a peak white level of 13.44 ft-L. A bit too dim for my tastes.

So I'm waiting. I've been waiting since 2011. Waiting to see what's coming out next year at CES in january. I went to my favorite Hi-Fi Store last week and the salesman told me the rumor is that at CES in january Sharp will probably be anouncing 2nd gen Elites and new Sharp branded local dimmers to come out around may of 2013. But it's just rumors. So I'm still waiting... hoping that we will learn something interesting at CES, hoping to see a 80-90 Elite or a at least 80-90 Sharp with local dimming at a somewhat affordable price!eek.gif
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post #15 of 25 Old 10-13-2012, 10:33 AM
 
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post #16 of 25 Old 10-13-2012, 12:45 PM
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post #17 of 25 Old 10-13-2012, 04:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dhan View Post

. According to the Home Theater review the 90 can indeed go down to 0.002 ft-L but one has to set the backlight to -12 to achieve this which will result in a peak white level of 13.44 ft-L. A bit too dim for my tastes.
That was exactly my main concern when i read the review, however, as pointed out, the user could increase the onscreen brightness simply by increasing contrast judiciously to a more appropriate level of 20~25 ft-L, which i imagine would raise the minimum black floor level to around 0.003 ft-L or so, an amount that is still very/very good by current standards.
And let's not forget that the user can also play around with brightness control as well as backlight control to achieve proper black level...
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post #18 of 25 Old 10-14-2012, 05:25 PM
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What are the ft-L measurements for the Elite?
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post #19 of 25 Old 10-14-2012, 05:43 PM
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Nevermind I just found them:

According to the Home Theater review the peak white level of the Elite was 25 foot-lamberts and the black level was 0.001 ft-L for a full-on/full-off contrast ratio of 25,080:1 vs 6720:1 for the 90...
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post #20 of 25 Old 10-14-2012, 06:36 PM
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Keep in mind there is a "small" but significant difference when most of these publications test native contrast ratio of plasma and LCD screens : they measure black level by displaying a full black image in a room darkened as much as possible for both types of display BUT when measuring white level the image used is a full white image for LCD screens versus a rather small white "window" surrounded by black bars all around image for plasma displays, the reason being that plasma displays clamp down on brightness severely when displaying full white images and therefore will not have as high a reading as LCD screens which use LEDs or CCF bulbs whereas plasma displays generate their own illumination.
I don't think that is a fair comparison testing methodology when a buyer is checking native contrast ratio for both technologies and i am pretty sure that if the Pioneer Kuro were measured by using a full white image its maximum onscreen brightness would decrease from 25.000:1 to around 15.000:1 maximum...
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post #21 of 25 Old 10-14-2012, 07:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MCaugusto View Post

I don't think that is a fair comparison testing methodology when a buyer is checking native contrast ratio for both technologies and i am pretty sure that if the Pioneer Kuro were measured by using a full white image its maximum onscreen brightness would decrease from 25.000:1 to around 15.000:1 maximum...

I fully agree with you but the OP is not trying to decide between a LED and a plasma here but rather between a LED and a LED... so I guess the ratios reported above are a fair comparaison of one aspect of the Sharp 90 and the Sharp Elite 70 which are targeted by the OP...
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post #22 of 25 Old 10-19-2012, 08:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Vincent Kompany View Post

as an elite owner, i'd say go with....the 90. the elite is absolutely brilliant for what it is, but the sheer size and pop of the 90 is going to be more impressive to most people. also, as mentioned, the 90 will give you that more immersive experience you want in a dedicated HT room.

+1. Also a 70" Elite owner and I think for the purposes you stated, the 90 may be the better call. The extra screen area makes a huge difference; I don't know if your daughters will discern the better PQ.

I am a happy Elite owner and think it is an amazing product. For some applications, size matters.
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post #23 of 25 Old 10-19-2012, 10:47 AM
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I own a 70" Elite and I went to look at the 90" Sharp and I just couldn't do it. The picture quality & black levels were so bad compared to my 70 that I knew I would never be happy with the 90.
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post #24 of 25 Old 10-19-2012, 11:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MCaugusto View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by dhan View Post

. According to the Home Theater review the 90 can indeed go down to 0.002 ft-L but one has to set the backlight to -12 to achieve this which will result in a peak white level of 13.44 ft-L. A bit too dim for my tastes.
That was exactly my main concern when i read the review, however, as pointed out, the user could increase the onscreen brightness simply by increasing contrast judiciously to a more appropriate level of 20~25 ft-L, which i imagine would raise the minimum black floor level to around 0.003 ft-L or so, an amount that is still very/very good by current standards.
And let's not forget that the user can also play around with brightness control as well as backlight control to achieve proper black level...
Keep in mind that the backlight setting affects both black and white levels, setting the blackest & brightest you can go which can then be modified by the contrast and brightness (is this a mis-named control or what - it should be named Dimness biggrin.gif). If you reduce the black level with the backlight you will also be reducing the white level although it isn't linear.
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post #25 of 25 Old 10-19-2012, 12:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mgmlot93 View Post

I own a 70" Elite and I went to look at the 90" Sharp and I just couldn't do it. The picture quality & black levels were so bad compared to my 70 that I knew I would never be happy with the 90.

PQ on the 90 is excellent. the one you saw must have been damaged or poorly configured/calibrated.
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