Is there ANY LCD or LED tv that does not suffer from vertical banding? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 18 Old 10-25-2012, 07:35 AM - Thread Starter
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I have owned alot of displays in my life. I really enjoy the clarity and brightness of LCD and LED tv's. I currently have the Sony 52HX909 LED tv with local dimming. It suffers from vertical banding that is very distracting when the camera pans .

I have checked out more tvs then I can count and all of the LED and LCD tv's I have seen suffer from this. It doesnt matter if it is
CCFL backlit, Edge LED backlit or LED local dim backlit. They are suffer from this.

Does anyone have a LED or LCD that does not have vertical banding??
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post #2 of 18 Old 10-25-2012, 10:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackvette94 View Post

I have owned alot of displays in my life. I really enjoy the clarity and brightness of LCD and LED tv's. I currently have the Sony 52HX909 LED tv with local dimming. It suffers from vertical banding that is very distracting when the camera pans .
I have checked out more tvs then I can count and all of the LED and LCD tv's I have seen suffer from this. It doesnt matter if it is
CCFL backlit, Edge LED backlit or LED local dim backlit. They are suffer from this.
Does anyone have a LED or LCD that does not have vertical banding??

IPS panels don't have vertical banding and neither do some *VA panels. S-PVA panels do have it and Sony/Samsung sets can have S-PVA panels (but not always due to the panel lottery).
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post #3 of 18 Old 10-25-2012, 10:31 AM
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Also, the extend of it can vary among various samples of S-PVA panels, so YMMV. It will always show on a dark gray full field test pattern, though.
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post #4 of 18 Old 10-25-2012, 10:37 AM
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Ive seen banding on S-IPS panels as well.

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post #5 of 18 Old 10-25-2012, 10:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EscapeVelocity View Post

Ive seen banding on S-IPS panels as well.

Yeah, my LG 42LK450 (S-IPS panel) has very slight horizontal banding, but you can't see it 95% of the time with normal program material. So, not really a significant issue unless you stare at solid gray/white screens all day.
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post #6 of 18 Old 10-25-2012, 10:46 AM
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Yes....my Sharp 80" series 632u has none,nada,zip,zilch....smile.gif

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post #7 of 18 Old 10-25-2012, 10:57 AM
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I have a similar experience with my Vizio GV42LF which uses an LG S-IPS panel. Ive only noticed it very occassionally. Fog or smoke scenes are good for sussing it out.

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post #8 of 18 Old 10-25-2012, 01:26 PM
 
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All S-PVA panels do not have banding. Probably no more than any other type of panel and it may depend on a particular "lot" of manufactured panels.

Generalized statements of even saying ALL of one type/brand can not be verified since no one buys ALL of the TVs, Samsung or anyone else makes.cool.gif

I have a Mitsubishi 46" LCD HDTV with the S-PVA panel in it and have ZERO banding and a very uniform lighting checked on gray scale fields of all levels. Back in 2007 when I bought this LT-46231 TV I got it because I had several very wide vertical bands on a previously purchased Toshiba 47". I have since purchased other LCD TVs with IPS, MVA, and other variations some of which also had banding or uneven back lighting which I returned because I found that kind of picture defect difficult to overlook or ignore.

Back in the 2006 through 2007 period there was a lot of bad panels on all brands. Sony had clouds, Samsung had very bad banding, as did Toshiba as well as other brands. It seems for the 2012 model year there has been a return to panels with banding once again., sad to say.
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post #9 of 18 Old 10-25-2012, 03:52 PM
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all the Samsung sets w/S-PVA panels do have it to some extent... dark gray full field test patterns will really bring it out
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post #10 of 18 Old 10-25-2012, 04:15 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by airgas1998 View Post

Yes....my Sharp 80" series 632u has none,nada,zip,zilch....smile.gif

I have been very pleased as well with my S-PVA panel Mitsubishi. smile.gif

Making generalized statements that ALL of one certain type of panel or TV brand can not be supported. I have seen no professional data or statistics that say such a thing. There might be some stating some of a certain panel or TV brand has banding, but not ALL. Last time I checked, no one has purchased ALL of one brand of TV or ALL of one type of panel to verify. An assumption at best.rolleyes.gif
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post #11 of 18 Old 10-25-2012, 04:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phase700B View Post

All S-PVA panels do not have banding. Probably no more than any other type of panel and it may depend on a particular "lot" of manufactured panels.
Generalized statements of even saying ALL of one type/brand can not be verified since no one buys ALL of the TVs, Samsung or anyone else makes.cool.gif
I have a Mitsubishi 46" LCD HDTV with the S-PVA panel in it and have ZERO banding and a very uniform lighting checked on gray scale fields of all levels. Back in 2007 when I bought this LT-46231 TV I got it because I had several very wide vertical bands on a previously purchased Toshiba 47". I have since purchased other LCD TVs with IPS, MVA, and other variations some of which also had banding or uneven back lighting which I returned because I found that kind of picture defect difficult to overlook or ignore.
Back in the 2006 through 2007 period there was a lot of bad panels on all brands. Sony had clouds, Samsung had very bad banding, as did Toshiba as well as other brands. It seems for the 2012 model year there has been a return to panels with banding once again., sad to say.

I agree with this, in general.

Ill just say that I think that you overstate the 2006-07 period. I think it just seems that way because that is when things really started to move into mass consumer purchases and was talked about as a "new phenomenon." Just a nuance that I think applies.

For some reason in my mind Sharp stands out as having been plagued with banding during that era.

Id like to get a S-PVA panel, never owned one, though Ive seen plenty of various generations. I have S-IPS and MVA. Never owned a Sharp, though, that is whay I originally drooled over back in the early days. I ended up with a Vizio, with no regrets.

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post #12 of 18 Old 10-25-2012, 04:56 PM
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I have seen it to some extent across all brands over the years. My 46" Sharp has a moderate case.

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post #13 of 18 Old 10-25-2012, 05:19 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EscapeVelocity View Post

I agree with this, in general.
Ill just say that I think that you overstate the 2006-07 period. I think it just seems that way because that is when things really started to move into mass consumer purchases and was talked about as a "new phenomenon." Just a nuance that I think applies.
.


I don't think I overstated the banding issues in 2006 to 2007. Check the AVS and other forum threads back then for Samsung and even Sharp.

http://www.epinions.com/review/Sharp_LC_52D62U_Television/content_310597553796?sb=1


http://www.psu.com/forums/showthread.php/64749-Samsung-Other-Big-Companies-LCD-Question


Well, I can only state my experience and also if you go back to earlier threads here on AVS the 2006-2007 model years were definitely a period of more than average panel issues. . . . at least compared to today. I was looking to replace my last RPTV so wanted at least a 46" screen and myself and others were disappointed to no end with Sony clouding and Samsung banding. I really wanted to by a Samsung back then but banding was heavily reported. I did look at Sharp, but they also seemed to have issues at the time. I did also buy an Olivia for our daughter and is had a good uniform panel it's only draw back was weak contrast ratio. But it still is in service to day. I did also have a 26" Philips LCD that still has a decent picturehas a today. Remember, back then a 46" or 47" name brand HDTV was running between $2,200 and $3,000 or more. Sony was one of the highest price. I have a 42" 2010 LG 42LD550 now also, but LG wasn't really big back then. I did consider a Pioneer plasma, but could not get past the glossy glass screen since we have a fair amount of day time window light.

And, yes, I have seen banding to some extent on all brands over the years, but more prevalent was uneven back lighting and bleed especially in the corners of screens. That I've seen on way too many LCD/LED tvs. In 2010 I bought and returned no less than 6 TVs until I got one (the LG 42LD550) that was acceptable. It has an S-IPS panel. The 2007 Mitsubishi with S-PVA outperforms the LG in black level and viewing angle. But the LG has more accurate color rendition.

We also bought a 37" Vizio for my wife's mom and it also has a very uniform panel. And I set up a 26" Sanyo last year for our other daughter and it is surprisingly good. Balck level is good too if back light is kept lower. Contrast ratio and color was better than an LG 26LD350 in 2010.

One thing that is rarely mentioned and almost never divulged by TV makers is how they implement sub pixel technology which has a lot to do with picture quality. It takes fairly sophisticated circuitry to control and use sub pixel architecture properly and some TVs do not make good use of it.
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post #14 of 18 Old 10-25-2012, 05:37 PM
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Well it certainly was a hot topic back then, everything new is a hot topic, was my point. I dont have to revisit the threads, I lived them, as did you. It is also probably true that the ramp up in production led to some of these quality control issues. These issues havent gone away, but they are talked about less, because they are known issues. I think clouding is a problem with panel tension. I have some corner backlight bleed. I can push it around the screen. This also has to do with panel tension, IMO.

I have some very mild banding, as well.

But my Vizio GV42LF has been rock solid, trouble free (no bad caps).....and it has a true matte screen, which is priceless IMO. Cant get them anymore. They went out by 2008, with Sharp producing the last true matte screens. Shame really.

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post #15 of 18 Old 10-25-2012, 05:58 PM
 
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I agree about the matte screen. My Mitsubishi LT-46231 has a true matte screen and when it is off it looks almost as black as the bezel around the panel. No reflections at all. And, yes, I agree flashlighting or corner light leakage can be caused by everything from improper handling to uneven pressure from mounting screws. Generally, I think the larger the panel the more likely a TV will have corner ir edge light leakage. Lots of mass there . . . . not much to support it.

We love the LT-46231. It has electronic TVGOS and Firewire inputs to which I connect two 60GB AV enabled hard drive DVRs and can record all our programs in HD. No TVs today offer that, and while you can buy an HTPC or other device I only paid about $60 to $75 for these DVRs off Ebay. I kind of dread having to buy a new TV if this one needs replacing. So far so good.
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post #16 of 18 Old 10-25-2012, 10:27 PM
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I remember the Mitsu's getting good praise back in the day. I had to "settle" for a Vizio, picked one up for just under $700 back in 2007, on a slickdeal at Sears. A very good purchase, even without the bargain, that made it affordable.

I might look for an used Mitsu, I was going to try to pick up a Samsung 4061 or 4661, which were the last of the true matte screen Samsung's but they fell under the bad cap plague.

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post #17 of 18 Old 10-25-2012, 11:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by airgas1998 View Post

Yes....my Sharp 80" series 632u has none,nada,zip,zilch....smile.gif
My Sharp 80" 632 has Nada , zip , "it Just is Not there ", none at all . . . . . between me & airgas we had more than a few displays & the 632 has no banding period

Mike

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post #18 of 18 Old 10-26-2012, 06:07 AM
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I have a 2006 Phillips LCD that shows banding 2% of the time.

I had a banding free 2008 Toshiba LCD HDTV.

I also had a banding free 2009 Samsung A850 LCD.

Now I've been through 5 different Samsung LED TVs/panels for a D6900....

First 3 had wide vertical banding, the 4th had panel wide horizontal bands.

The 5th shows faint banding on dark grey screens only.
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