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post #91 of 720 Old 11-12-2012, 06:31 AM
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Originally Posted by falconman515 View Post

Contrast ratio means nothing if the uniformity and picture look terrible! Now don't get me wrong on 1080p movies and 3D the Sharp was Stunning!!! But on regular HD channels it was so so and sports it was HORRIBLE !!! I am a big tv show and sports guy so the Sharp was not the right TV for me At All! I returned the thing within a few days (would have taken it back the next day after watching TV and sports but had to wait to find time to return it).
A company can tout these massive contrast ratios, all this smart tv jibber jabber, 480hz junk when we all know it's only 120hz, etc, etc, etc, ..... if the picture is bad and doesn't render all things good or great then it's not a good TV ... and the Sharp was NOT a good TV (for basic TV HD and sports for sure).
I could care less about what they "Claim" a TV to have ... I am looking for real world results and this TV by far exceeded the Sharp in those categories.


Since our main 50 inch just died, we've been watching our 42 in Philips that's rarely been used. I had recenty dialed it in and think it has a fantastic picture for both dvd and hd content over Fios.
My point is that I just looked up the spects and it shows a contrast ratio of 1100:1, so I'm thinking 1,000,000:1 sounds pretty good to me. For that matter, at what point is the point of diminshing returns?
Do you really notice the difference between 1,000,000 and 10,000,000, and like someone said, is there really an acurate way to determine what the correct ration really is?

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post #92 of 720 Old 11-12-2012, 06:36 AM
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Originally Posted by 30PlusRetlaw View Post


BTW: as mention before, this tv have a long delay from when you press the "on" button and the picture appear. Is about 20-25 secs. I hope this can be fix with a software upgrade.

That's a nice feature of Smart TVs. What a shame they decided to put that stuff inside TVs.

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post #93 of 720 Old 11-12-2012, 07:08 AM
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I have zero space. My problem is the contrary. The picture in some cases is bigger than the screen. I try to fixed by changing picture size settings and could not fixed. I'm using comcast and before, I was able to change the picture size using the comcast box, but now that feature is not working and I don't know why. I going to have to reprogram the box and see if it work.
BTW: as mention before, this tv have a long delay from when you press the "on" button and the picture appear. Is about 20-25 secs. I hope this can be fix with a software upgrade.

Hum? in that space I have there are no pixels. Going to try to take a pic of it.
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post #94 of 720 Old 11-12-2012, 07:33 AM
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Below is a pic of the space I have between the bezel and the actual picture. I put a circle on there. there is around a 1/8-1/4" space of no pixels. Just wondering if this is common or not. I can't seem to stop looking at at. Pic below is a bit off as I was shaking a bit wink.gif

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post #95 of 720 Old 11-12-2012, 08:44 AM
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Originally Posted by brewsbro View Post

Below is a pic of the space I have between the bezel and the actual picture. I put a circle on there. there is around a 1/8-1/4" space of no pixels. Just wondering if this is common or not. I can't seem to stop looking at at. Pic below is a bit off as I was shaking a bit wink.gif

I don't have the "white" pixels like you do. My image goes all the way down to the bezel. Look at the pictures I posted and you can see that my image goes all the way down. If I was you I would call Vizio right away. If this is not normal, return the TV ASAP so you can find a replacement. This TVs are moving fast.
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post #96 of 720 Old 11-12-2012, 09:02 AM
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Originally Posted by 30PlusRetlaw View Post

I don't have the "white" pixels like you do. My image goes all the way down to the bezel. Look at the pictures I posted and you can see that my image goes all the way down. If I was you I would call Vizio right away. If this is not normal, return the TV ASAP so you can find a replacement. This TVs are moving fast.

Thanks. Those pixels are white from the show that was on. According to Vizio, just now, all these tv's have a small non pixel border on the top. No matter which mode(normal, zoom, wide) there is a small area just under the top bezel with no pic. Vizio says its designed this way. Its almost as if they designed the bezel around this thing a bit too big.
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post #97 of 720 Old 11-12-2012, 09:15 AM
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Originally Posted by brewsbro View Post

Thanks. Those pixels are white from the show that was on. According to Vizio, just now, all these tv's have a small non pixel border on the top. No matter which mode(normal, zoom, wide) there is a small area just under the top bezel with no pic. Vizio says its designed this way. Its almost as if they designed the bezel around this thing a bit too big.

Got you!!. I just check the top of mine and I do have a small line with no picture.( I misunderstood you and only check the bottom picture) Glad to know this is normal. Thanks!!!! Since mine is mounted high on the wall, the line look like part of the bezel.
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post #98 of 720 Old 11-12-2012, 09:51 AM
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I'm seriously considering this TV now that it has the $998 price point assuming I can get one on Black Friday.

Thanks to those of you who have posted pics of this set.

I would like to make a suggestion to pull the actual detailed specs in the original post directly from the Vizio website as there are some discrepancies in the first post to what shows on the Vizio site located here:
http://store.vizio.com/via-hdtvs/m650vse.html?___SID=U

What wall mounts have people used? We'll be mounting this somewhat high on a wall as the Mrs. won't allow it down lower so definitely considering a tilt mount.
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post #99 of 720 Old 11-12-2012, 10:19 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Ra21V12eN View Post

I would like to make a suggestion to pull the actual detailed specs in the original post directly from the Vizio website as there are some discrepancies in the first post to what shows on the Vizio site located here:
http://store.vizio.com/via-hdtvs/m650vse.html?___SID=U

Updated with Vizio.com Specs
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post #100 of 720 Old 11-12-2012, 10:22 AM - Thread Starter
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That's a nice feature of Smart TVs. What a shame they decided to put that stuff inside TVs.

So is this normal for "smart tv's" ??? This is the one thing that really bugs me when I go to turn this TV on ... 25 second start up time seems a bit much.
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post #101 of 720 Old 11-12-2012, 11:13 AM
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Assuming that I strike out on black Friday, does anyone think these tv's will be on sale a couple weeks later for Christmas?

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post #102 of 720 Old 11-12-2012, 11:18 AM
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Originally Posted by falconman515 View Post

So is this normal for "smart tv's" ??? This is the one thing that really bugs me when I go to turn this TV on ... 25 second start up time seems a bit much.
The "smarter" they get, the longer it takes. No different than Bluray players or PC's.
As a side note.... remember when the car radio had to "warm up" for a few seconds before you heard sound? smile.gif
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post #103 of 720 Old 11-12-2012, 12:00 PM
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I'm seriously considering this TV
What wall mounts have people used? We'll be mounting this somewhat high on a wall as the Mrs. won't allow it down lower so definitely considering a tilt mount.

I'm using this one:

http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=108&cp_id=10828&cs_id=1082801&p_id=6527&seq=1&format=2
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post #104 of 720 Old 11-12-2012, 01:47 PM
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Originally Posted by brewsbro View Post

Below is a pic of the space I have between the bezel and the actual picture. I put a circle on there. there is around a 1/8-1/4" space of no pixels. Just wondering if this is common or not. I can't seem to stop looking at at. Pic below is a bit off as I was shaking a bit wink.gif

Thanks for the picture. That is quite odd if what Vizio said is correct. Does anybody else have this (is it on the top edge of the image)....black pace on the top edge only?

I wish I would have seen this picture earlier as I went HDTV inspecting again today. Probably wont get back till next week.

My original thought was to advise the use of Vertical shift controls. Many sets have H(orizontal), V(ertical) shift controls usually one pixel line at a time up or down. Some have some similar controls which are harder to describe here but are like the H and V shift controls.

Go into the Menus and see if you can find these.

Vizio VP322 Plasma / Vizio GV42LF LCD / Denon 2200 Silicon Image DVD / Panasonic S97 Faroudja Genesis DVD / Oppo 970HD Mediatek DVD / Oppo 983H Anchor Bay DVD / Panasonic LX-600 Laserdisc / Aiwa MX100 Multi-region VCR / JVC S7600 S-VHS / PS2 / Sega Genesis / Nintendo SNES / Roku 2 XS & HD-XR / Realistic STA-90 Reciever / Realistic Minimus 7 / Antennacraft G1483 Hoverman / Belden 7915A RG6 / Channel Master 7777 Titan 2 UHF/VHF / Panasonic AX-200u / Optoma Graywolf 92" / Draper Luma 92"
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post #105 of 720 Old 11-12-2012, 02:27 PM
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Originally Posted by EscapeVelocity View Post

Thanks for the picture. That is quite odd if what Vizio said is correct. Does anybody else have this (is it on the top edge of the image)....black pace on the top edge only?
I wish I would have seen this picture earlier as I went HDTV inspecting again today. Probably wont get back till next week.
My original thought was to advise the use of Vertical shift controls. Many sets have H(orizontal), V(ertical) shift controls usually one pixel line at a time up or down. Some have some similar controls which are harder to describe here but are like the H and V shift controls.
Go into the Menus and see if you can find these.

Vertical only takes it so far up. Still leaves a black space a bit thicker than 1/8"(for me at least.). I went and looked at my old toshiba and it actually has a small space on top also. I had never even noticed that one before.
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post #106 of 720 Old 11-12-2012, 02:35 PM
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Originally Posted by brewsbro View Post

Below is a pic of the space I have between the bezel and the actual picture. I put a circle on there. there is around a 1/8-1/4" space of no pixels. Just wondering if this is common or not. I can't seem to stop looking at at. Pic below is a bit off as I was shaking a bit wink.gif

I wanted to add a bit to this pic. the space looks huge, but its really less than 1/4". This was in normal mode. In wide and zoom mode the space is a bit smaller, and the smallest it gets.
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post #107 of 720 Old 11-12-2012, 02:36 PM - Thread Starter
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Seeing something weird .... The picture when on a fast action white or light color screen ... I seen it a lot when I watched football yesterday and they threw a pass or punt when the field was scrolling across the screen kinda fast .... the actual screen itself seems as if there is some light line from top to bottom every couple inches vertically. It's really hard to explain, it's like a shadow or something ... almost like what you would have if there we're burn in on the screen on something or Image Retention like Plasmas. You can tell it on the screen itself cause it stays steady as the picture moves behind it. I wish I could capture this but I can;t ... you only see this when the picture is moving at a fast rate or the frame moves really quick. I watched the Walking dead and when they we're outside and it was a bit brighter grey/white skies and the picture would pan around I could really see it. Everything looks fine until a fast moving action scene happens.

Not to sure what this issue is so I just took it back and got a replacement ... it's at home but not yet hooked up ... I'll see if it's still there on the new one .... I didn't notice this much right away when I got it but maybe I just hadn't seen much of it yet .... really noticed it a lot more the last couple days.

Wish I could explain this better the best way to say it is a real faint vertical lines (the lines are not small the best way to describe what I see on the screen is how a football field looks you know ... you just see the vertical hazey line every couple inches from one side to the other) almost like the screen has some sort of image retention on it and you see if moving in front of the brighter white and colored screened picture when a fast scene is moving on the screen.

Hopefully this is not not there when I get home with the new one but this is one thing I have realized may be an issue if this new one has the same issue ... It's not an easy thing to see and maybe since I'm about exactly 10' away at eye level from the screen I see more detail and screen issues then other may have noticed so far.

Crossing my fingers the new one is good ... I started this thread with really high hopes and it has been awesome so far but this screen thing may be an issue .... Results to follow later tonight. :/
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post #108 of 720 Old 11-12-2012, 02:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by falconman515 View Post

Seeing something weird .... The picture when on a fast action white or light color screen ... I seen it a lot when I watched football yesterday and they threw a pass or punt when the field was scrolling across the screen kinda fast .... the actual screen itself seems as if there is some light line from top to bottom every couple inches vertically. It's really hard to explain, it's like a shadow or something ... almost like what you would have if there we're burn in on the screen on something or Image Retention like Plasmas. You can tell it on the screen itself cause it stays steady as the picture moves behind it. I wish I could capture this but I can;t ... you only see this when the picture is moving at a fast rate or the frame moves really quick. I watched the Walking dead and when they we're outside and it was a bit brighter grey/white skies and the picture would pan around I could really see it. Everything looks fine until a fast moving action scene happens.
Not to sure what this issue is so I just took it back and got a replacement ... it's at home but not yet hooked up ... I'll see if it's still there on the new one .... I didn't notice this much right away when I got it but maybe I just hadn't seen much of it yet .... really noticed it a lot more the last couple days.
Wish I could explain this better the best way to say it is a real faint vertical lines (the lines are not small the best way to describe what I see on the screen is how a football field looks you know ... you just see the vertical hazey line every couple inches from one side to the other) almost like the screen has some sort of image retention on it and you see if moving in front of the brighter white and colored screened picture when a fast scene is moving on the screen.
Hopefully this is not not there when I get home with the new one but this is one thing I have realized may be an issue if this new one has the same issue ... It's not an easy thing to see and maybe since I'm about exactly 10' away at eye level from the screen I see more detail and screen issues then other may have noticed so far.
Crossing my fingers the new one is good ... I started this thread with really high hopes and it has been awesome so far but this screen thing may be an issue .... Results to follow later tonight. :/

That sounds like banding.

If you have a DVD of Master and Commander, the fog scenes really show banding off clearly. It's a torture test for banding.

When I was looking at this set today, I was thinking of asking about banding today, and here you are posting what sounds like banding.

Banding

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post #109 of 720 Old 11-12-2012, 02:45 PM
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Originally Posted by EscapeVelocity View Post

Thanks for the picture. That is quite odd if what Vizio said is correct. Does anybody else have this (is it on the top edge of the image)....black pace on the top edge only?
.

I do have the same thing. But since mine is up high in the wall, it look like part of the bezel.
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post #110 of 720 Old 11-12-2012, 02:49 PM
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Video: Banding Explained

Vizio VP322 Plasma / Vizio GV42LF LCD / Denon 2200 Silicon Image DVD / Panasonic S97 Faroudja Genesis DVD / Oppo 970HD Mediatek DVD / Oppo 983H Anchor Bay DVD / Panasonic LX-600 Laserdisc / Aiwa MX100 Multi-region VCR / JVC S7600 S-VHS / PS2 / Sega Genesis / Nintendo SNES / Roku 2 XS & HD-XR / Realistic STA-90 Reciever / Realistic Minimus 7 / Antennacraft G1483 Hoverman / Belden 7915A RG6 / Channel Master 7777 Titan 2 UHF/VHF / Panasonic AX-200u / Optoma Graywolf 92" / Draper Luma 92"
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post #111 of 720 Old 11-12-2012, 02:54 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by EscapeVelocity View Post

That sounds like banding.
If you have a DVD of Master and Commander, the fog scenes really show banding off clearly. It's a torture test for banding.
When I was looking at this set today, I was thinking of asking about banding today, and here you are posting what sounds like banding.
Banding

YEP .... that's exactly what it looks like!!!

When I click on your link it looked mostly like the top left 4 pictures!

Crap ... sure hope this isn't an issue with this TV .... that is a rough thing for me to watch ... I have a little bit of an overcritical eye one certain things .... I am not the guy who need the most AMAZING perfect crystal clear multi thousand dollar plus picture .... BUT I am critical on the small things like this, or anything un-uniformed per-say.

Crossing my fingers the new one at home is better then the one I just took back ... but if not and this tv has this banding issue, I am not sure if it's something I can get past.

My old 55" Vizio XVT has none of this! Of course it rear-array LED lighting with smart dimming (not a slim tv like these new ones) ... so maybe being edge-lit and a thinner this is an issue.

Like I said result to follow on new set later tonight.
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Video: Banding Explained

This explains EXACTLY what this TV has! Hopefully mine was worse and the new one is better ... but I think I may have found the first major issue with this line of TV sets.

Man I wanted this TV to be great ... and really minus this banding issue it is Flawless!!!!! and the price can in no way shape or form be beat .... but my eye really locks on to this banding thing a lot when I view my tv so I am not sure where this issue may lead me! frown.gif
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post #112 of 720 Old 11-12-2012, 03:10 PM
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Hmmm...mine is still in the box and can easily be returned to Costco. I'm hoping that your replacement is better though. I really want to like this TV.
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post #113 of 720 Old 11-12-2012, 03:19 PM - Thread Starter
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Hmmm...mine is still in the box and can easily be returned to Costco. I'm hoping that your replacement is better though. I really want to like this TV.

I will let you know how the new looks later tonight!

Ya .... I really Love this TV .... but this banding might be something I can't get past .... hopefully some built at a later time or something are better then others ... But only time will tell.

For those of you wanting to see if you have this issue ... click the link above to the video and do what he said to test it .... we are all in the return policy time right now and if yours has it and it's something you can't get past after you test it and see what it is I'm talking about ... it may be time to continue shopping for something different (man I hate saying this frown.gif )
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post #114 of 720 Old 11-12-2012, 03:20 PM
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As that video explained, Im fine with minor banding. I have it on my 42" Vizio, but it is only noticeable very ocassionally.

Vizio VP322 Plasma / Vizio GV42LF LCD / Denon 2200 Silicon Image DVD / Panasonic S97 Faroudja Genesis DVD / Oppo 970HD Mediatek DVD / Oppo 983H Anchor Bay DVD / Panasonic LX-600 Laserdisc / Aiwa MX100 Multi-region VCR / JVC S7600 S-VHS / PS2 / Sega Genesis / Nintendo SNES / Roku 2 XS & HD-XR / Realistic STA-90 Reciever / Realistic Minimus 7 / Antennacraft G1483 Hoverman / Belden 7915A RG6 / Channel Master 7777 Titan 2 UHF/VHF / Panasonic AX-200u / Optoma Graywolf 92" / Draper Luma 92"
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post #115 of 720 Old 11-12-2012, 03:41 PM
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Hmmm...mine is still in the box and can easily be returned to Costco. I'm hoping that your replacement is better though. I really want to like this TV.

You might as well opern her up and give it a whirl.

Banding affects all brands and many if not all models....though some models are worse than others, generally speaking. You really have to look at the specific unit.

Vizio VP322 Plasma / Vizio GV42LF LCD / Denon 2200 Silicon Image DVD / Panasonic S97 Faroudja Genesis DVD / Oppo 970HD Mediatek DVD / Oppo 983H Anchor Bay DVD / Panasonic LX-600 Laserdisc / Aiwa MX100 Multi-region VCR / JVC S7600 S-VHS / PS2 / Sega Genesis / Nintendo SNES / Roku 2 XS & HD-XR / Realistic STA-90 Reciever / Realistic Minimus 7 / Antennacraft G1483 Hoverman / Belden 7915A RG6 / Channel Master 7777 Titan 2 UHF/VHF / Panasonic AX-200u / Optoma Graywolf 92" / Draper Luma 92"
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post #116 of 720 Old 11-12-2012, 03:43 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by EscapeVelocity View Post

As that video explained, Im fine with minor banding. I have it on my 42" Vizio, but it is only noticeable very occasionally.

Ya I may think the same about something that's 42" as well .... I have a 42" Vizio in my office for gaming and heck it may have it but I think with that size it's a little harder to see.

Once you hit this huge 65" size and depending on the distance you sit form it ... this banding might be something you see more due to sheer size possibly.

Hopefully the new one is a little better ... I have all fingers crossed right now ... I'll find out if I need to start shopping again after tonight.
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post #117 of 720 Old 11-12-2012, 04:13 PM
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And you're using that mount on this specific TV or on a different one?

How far does the bottom of the Vizio come down below the bracket and how high does the top of the Vizio sit above the bracket? I need to get this TV taped out on the wall for the Mrs. to see so that she will understand exactly where the TV would fit assuming I used the same mount.

Thanks for the link to this mount.
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post #118 of 720 Old 11-12-2012, 04:39 PM
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Originally Posted by EscapeVelocity View Post

You might as well opern her up and give it a whirl.
Banding affects all brands and many if not all models....though some models are worse than others, generally speaking. You really have to look at the specific unit.

I'll probably do that before I return it. I've been looking for a reason to watch Master and Commander again. :-)
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post #119 of 720 Old 11-12-2012, 06:51 PM
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Falconman, thanks for your input.
What is the viewing angle, side to side, to where it still is an acceptable picture?
We will be seated approx. 15 feet away.
Also how is the picture with the eye level being probably 10" to 12" from the bottom of the screen?
My wife has a piece of. Furniture that she wants it on, and eye level will not be at the center point?

The mount we bought came with a piece to have it tilt slightly down. Which we sit about about 12-15 feet away. With it being mounted so high the tilt is perfect. Im really no pro but when we sit on the couch and watch the TV. The picture and angle we feel is perfect. No head straining or anything like that.
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post #120 of 720 Old 11-13-2012, 04:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Ra21V12eN View Post

And you're using that mount on this specific TV or on a different one?
How far does the bottom of the Vizio come down below the bracket and how high does the top of the Vizio sit above the bracket? I need to get this TV taped out on the wall for the Mrs. to see so that she will understand exactly where the TV would fit assuming I used the same mount.
Thanks for the link to this mount.

Yes that is the mount I'm using. I know it say for tvs up to 62", but is rated to 200 pounds. The mount that attach to the TV is adjustable so you can move it up and down so you can set it to your liking.
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