List of HDTV's with 120Hz native refresh ability (forcing 1080p@120Hz via DVI or HDMI from computer) - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 39 Old 11-07-2012, 10:55 PM - Thread Starter
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The bleeding edge art of overclocking an HDTV to 120Hz...

True 120Hz from PC to TV:
Make Your HDTV Accept Real 120Hz Refresh Rate




In the last few years, HDTV's have gained more internal electronics circuitry to do 120Hz. Internal 120Hz processing. Frame-sequential 3D at 120Hz (60/60 per eye). New HDMI 1.3a with enough bandwidth to pass 120Hz at 1080p if tasked to do so (unofficially). Finally, the whole chain finally made it possible to do TRUE NATIVE 120Hz on several televisions, from a computer, at least unofficially. In addition, some computer users overclock their computer monitors to a higher refresh rate than reported by EDID (e.g. Catleap 2B, or the QNIX Q2710 Evolution 2, or the X270OC). Dozens of success reports are coming in!
Quote:
Successful: Vizio e3d420vx
Resolution: 1920×1080 at 120 Hz
Source: http://120hz.net/showthread.php?852-Managed-to-force-120Hz-on-a-Vizio-e3d420vx
Quote:
(Third-Hand Report) Success: Panasonic VT50 plasma
Resolution: 1920×1080 at 120 Hz
Caveat: More heat output
Source: http://www.avsforum.com/t/1438092/list-of-hdtvs-with-120hz-native-refresh-ability-forcing-1080p-120hz-via-dvi-or-hdmi-from-computer#post_22576928
Quote:
Confirmed: Seiki 4K HDTV
Resolution: 1920×1080 at 120 Hz
The brand new SEIKI 50″ HDTV with 4K resolution supports 1080p @ 120Hz natively (Multitool confirmed).
seiki4k_720p@133Hz-300x224.jpg
Quote:
Originally Posted by deadman5k 
Successful: Vizio M420SL not a 3d TV
Resolution: 1920×1080 at 120 Hz

Using a Asus 3D tv driver I was able to force a 120hz output with windows 7 and my Vizio M420SL system info screen displays 120hz vertical frequency as well as my Catalyst control center. This TV is not a 3D but does have a native LCD refresh rate of 120hz.

Thank you blurbusters for your very helpful information. It took all day to find the right question to ask the great google search engine but when I finally asked “force 120hz pc” I found this page and now I am in 120hz, 42 inch, goodness. Next trick is getting passive 3d working. Thanks again.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sadbuttrue 
Successful: Panasonic 50ST30 plasma
Resolution: 1280×720 @ 120hz.
Source: HardForum post (by sadbuttrue)

The OSD reports 60hz and 3D mode detected. Colours are slightly different but there is no 3D being applied. I have verified that it does show 120 unique frames. So, when you try outputting 120hz to your TV don’t assume the OSD is giving an accurate report. It may say 60hz yet actually be showing 120hz.
Quote:
Originally Posted by maarten12100 
Successful: Skyworth 39E780U UHD tv (china market model)
Resolution: 1080p @ 140Hz without frame skipping
Source: Overclock.net review by maarten12100

The overclock results:
UHD 3840×2160 was 30Hz max now 38Hz (up to 40Hz by reducing the extra pixels/blanking in the stream but with minor artifacting)
QFHD 2560×1440 was not there now 82Hz
HD 1920×1080 was 60Hz max now 140Hz (I checked with RRMT Refresh Rate Multi Tool and it actually did it without dropping)
QHD 1280×720 was 60Hz max now 254Hz (checked again with RRMT but it was too fast for my eyes then I took pictures and video)
(NOTE: Cost only $600 in China! Not available outside of China yet at this time.)
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobbitybob 
Successful:
- Sony KDL-50R550A 50″
- Sony KDL-60R550A 60″
- Sony KDL-70R550A 70″
Resolution: 1080p @ 120Hz
Source: AVSFORUM post by bobbitybob

“720p@120hz confirmed working. Kinda funny, before on 1080 I didn't notice a difference figuring I'm just getting too old for this stuff, having never used a 120hz monitor before, but I knew instantly with the real 120hz that it's working. What a huge difference in smoothness and reduction in blur. Just nuts. Tested with RRM (Refresh Rate Multitool) as well to verify.”
(NOTE: 720p was good; 1080p was frameskipping, but may be DVI adaptor (limitation). Best to test using direct HDMI-to-HDMI connection from PC-to-TV.)
HDTV Overclocking Instructions: Get 120Hz from a PC to a television

Also, improve your successes by:
-- Using a high quality HDMI cable (3D / 4K compatible) even if the HDTV has only HDMI 1.3 ports
-- Try all ports on TV
-- Try all ports on computer
-- Do not use any adaptors (Do not use DVI-D to HDMI adaptor)
-- Bypass your receiver if it's an older one (Not all receivers can pass 120Hz HDMI)
-- If you fail, there's always 720p@120Hz which is much easier.

No fake frames. No interpolation tricks. No Motionflow voodoo. True 120Hz!.
Try this with your existing HDTV. Post your success reports here.

Thanks,
Mark Rejhon

www.BlurBusters.com

BlurBusters Blog -- Eliminating Motion Blur by 90%+ on LCD for games and computers

Rooting for upcoming low-persistence rolling-scan OLEDs too!

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post #2 of 39 Old 11-08-2012, 03:08 AM
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Panasonic Viera TX-L47ET5B

Accepts 120hz 720p but does'nt improve anything as tv still only shows 60hz, panning shots/mouse ect still show the same amount of blur, 1080p 120hz is a black screen.

Unlucky for it does'nt work.

Bugged Interleaved/checkerboard lg forum thread, please add your names.http://www.avforums.com/forums/lg-fo...-lg-3dtvs.html
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post #3 of 39 Old 11-10-2012, 06:28 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Butmuncher View Post

Panasonic Viera TX-L47ET5B
Accepts 120hz 720p but does'nt improve anything as tv still only shows 60hz, panning shots/mouse ect still show the same amount of blur, 1080p 120hz is a black screen.
Unlucky for it does'nt work.
This means this TV is a probably a "frame skipper", then (that's what the HardForum and 120hz.net people call those refresh rate overclocking failures). That means it only displays some refreshes (e.g. every other refresh at 120Hz) -- this has been observed when you try to overclock the refresh rate of certain flat panel computer monitors (e.g. running 75Hz on a monitor that only does 60Hz, sometimes results in a lot of judder if the monitor's electronics can't synchronize the panel refresh to the signal refresh).

I'd love to see more tests on other models -- anyone else dare force 120Hz from their PC to their HDTV?

Thanks,
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www.BlurBusters.com

BlurBusters Blog -- Eliminating Motion Blur by 90%+ on LCD for games and computers

Rooting for upcoming low-persistence rolling-scan OLEDs too!

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post #4 of 39 Old 11-10-2012, 09:21 PM
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Some friend of mine told me his in law is running the Panasonic VT50 at a forced 120hz refresh rate at 1080p without problems. Just more heat output. I cannot confirm what he says but I guess that gives us hope.
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post #5 of 39 Old 11-10-2012, 10:16 PM
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I might be picking up a Panasonic ST50 tomorrow. If so I will try powerstrip and run it. If it works I will make a youtube video and report back. I'm also curious to try it on the VIZIO M3D470KD.
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post #6 of 39 Old 11-11-2012, 10:03 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gorilla_cooch View Post

I might be picking up a Panasonic ST50 tomorrow. If so I will try powerstrip and run it. If it works I will make a youtube video and report back. I'm also curious to try it on the VIZIO M3D470KD.
Please do. I hear really good things about Panasonic VT50 and ST50. It's useful for the high end HTPC users who have Geforce GTX680's and similiar, that can play games at 120fps!

When you say "more heat output", do you mean more heat output relative to 60Hz (that'd probably be normal), or more heat output relative to 3D output? (that's bad, bad -- could fry the TV). Some TV's generate a little more heat in 3D mode than at 60Hz mode; so it's natural to see 120Hz generate as much heat as 3D mode. (3D mode is 120Hz as 60/60Hz per eye.)

Test the racing car animation in PixPerAn, to make sure that you get 50% less motion blur at 120Hz than at 60Hz.

Thanks,
Mark Rejhon

www.BlurBusters.com

BlurBusters Blog -- Eliminating Motion Blur by 90%+ on LCD for games and computers

Rooting for upcoming low-persistence rolling-scan OLEDs too!

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post #7 of 39 Old 02-20-2013, 06:16 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gorilla_cooch View Post

Some friend of mine told me his in law is running the Panasonic VT50 at a forced 120hz refresh rate at 1080p without problems. Just more heat output. I cannot confirm what he says but I guess that gives us hope.
Any updates?

I have now posted a brand new HOWTO:
HDTV Refresh Rate Overclocking HOWTO

You can use the PowerStrip method of overclocking, if PowerStrip still works with your graphics drivers.
That said, there are much easier methods -- EVGA's Pixel Overclock utility -- and ToastyX Custom Resolution Utility.
These methods override the EDID of your display.

Thanks,
Mark Rejhon

www.BlurBusters.com

BlurBusters Blog -- Eliminating Motion Blur by 90%+ on LCD for games and computers

Rooting for upcoming low-persistence rolling-scan OLEDs too!

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post #8 of 39 Old 02-23-2013, 02:48 PM
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Would love to try this, but using an HDMI 1x2 splitter that goes to a 60hz old Samsung as well as my new Panasonic L42E50 which does support 120hz. I figure there's no way this will work with the splitter there. If anyone finds it works out with this model Panasonic then perhaps I can re-wire how I have it now.
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post #9 of 39 Old 05-09-2013, 03:07 PM
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I am going to try this on my Samsung PN60F8500 when I get home..... might have to bypass the onkyo reciever, but we shall see....
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post #10 of 39 Old 06-11-2013, 11:15 AM - Thread Starter
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Updated with new success reports of true 120Hz native from PC, from reports at HDTV Refresh Rate Overclocking HOWTO: True 120Hz from PC to TV
Quote:
Successful: Vizio e3d420vx
Resolution: 1920×1080 at 120 Hz
Source: http://120hz.net/showthread.php?852-Managed-to-force-120Hz-on-a-Vizio-e3d420vx
Quote:
Confirmed: Seiki 4K HDTV
Resolution: 1920×1080 at 120 Hz
The brand new SEIKI 50″ HDTV with 4K resolution supports 1080p @ 120Hz natively (Multitool confirmed).
seiki4k_720p@133Hz-300x224.jpg
Quote:
Originally Posted by deadman5k 
Successful: Vizio M420SL not a 3d TV
Resolution: 1920×1080 at 120 Hz

Using a Asus 3D tv driver I was able to force a 120hz output with windows 7 and my Vizio M420SL system info screen displays 120hz vertical frequency as well as my Catalyst control center. This TV is not a 3D but does have a native LCD refresh rate of 120hz.

Thank you blurbusters for your very helpful information. It took all day to find the right question to ask the great google search engine but when I finally asked “force 120hz pc” I found this page and now I am in 120hz, 42 inch, goodness. Next trick is getting passive 3d working. Thanks again.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sadbuttrue 
Successful: Panasonic 50ST30 plasma
Resolution: 1280×720 @ 120hz.
Source: HardForum post (by sadbuttrue)

The OSD reports 60hz and 3D mode detected. Colours are slightly different but there is no 3D being applied. I have verified that it does show 120 unique frames.
So, when you try outputting 120hz to your TV don’t assume the OSD is giving an accurate report. It may say 60hz yet actually be showing 120hz.

Excellent success rate on Vizio and Panasonic televisions made in the last two years.

Thanks,
Mark Rejhon

www.BlurBusters.com

BlurBusters Blog -- Eliminating Motion Blur by 90%+ on LCD for games and computers

Rooting for upcoming low-persistence rolling-scan OLEDs too!

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post #11 of 39 Old 06-13-2013, 03:43 PM - Thread Starter
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Added new displays discovered to support TRUE 120Hz:
Quote:
Originally Posted by maarten12100 
Successful: Skyworth 39E780U UHD tv (china market model)
Resolution: 1080p @ 140Hz without frame skipping
Source: Overclock.net review by maarten12100

The overclock results:
UHD 3840×2160 was 30Hz max now 38Hz (up to 40Hz by reducing the extra pixels/blanking in the stream but with minor artifacting)
QFHD 2560×1440 was not there now 82Hz
HD 1920×1080 was 60Hz max now 140Hz (I checked with RRMT Refresh Rate Multi Tool and it actually did it without dropping)
QHD 1280×720 was 60Hz max now 254Hz (checked again with RRMT but it was too fast for my eyes then I took pictures and video)
(NOTE: Cost only $600 in China! Not available outside of China yet at this time.)
cardoski likes this.

Thanks,
Mark Rejhon

www.BlurBusters.com

BlurBusters Blog -- Eliminating Motion Blur by 90%+ on LCD for games and computers

Rooting for upcoming low-persistence rolling-scan OLEDs too!

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post #12 of 39 Old 06-15-2013, 08:49 PM - Thread Starter
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Added:
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobbitybob 
Successful:
- Sony KDL-50R550A 50″
- Sony KDL-60R550A 60″
- Sony KDL-70R550A 70″
Resolution: 1080p @ 120Hz
Source: AVSFORUM post by bobbitybob

“720p@120hz confirmed working. Kinda funny, before on 1080 I didn't notice a difference figuring I'm just getting too old for this stuff, having never used a 120hz monitor before, but I knew instantly with the real 120hz that it's working. What a huge difference in smoothness and reduction in blur. Just nuts. Tested with RRM (Refresh Rate Multitool) as well to verify.”
(NOTE: 720p was good; 1080p was frameskipping, but may be DVI adaptor (limitation). Best to test using direct HDMI-to-HDMI connection from PC-to-TV.)

Thanks,
Mark Rejhon

www.BlurBusters.com

BlurBusters Blog -- Eliminating Motion Blur by 90%+ on LCD for games and computers

Rooting for upcoming low-persistence rolling-scan OLEDs too!

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post #13 of 39 Old 06-19-2013, 05:09 AM
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I can get 120hz at 1920x1080i on my 2010 2D panny Plasma TC-P50S2

Will I be able to use this in 3d mode? 120hz?

I can also get 1920x1080 in interlaced 120hz too. strange

It looks the same to me as 1080p honestly
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post #14 of 39 Old 06-19-2013, 11:00 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan Hersey View Post

I can get 120hz at 1920x1080i on my 2010 2D panny Plasma TC-P50S2
Will I be able to use this in 3d mode? 120hz?
I can also get 1920x1080 in interlaced 120hz too. strange
It looks the same to me as 1080p honestly
1920x1080i@120Hz is a very interesting addition to the mix.
Can you also test 720p@120Hz?
Have you used Refresh Rate Multitool to verify that it looks smoother?

Thanks,
Mark Rejhon

www.BlurBusters.com

BlurBusters Blog -- Eliminating Motion Blur by 90%+ on LCD for games and computers

Rooting for upcoming low-persistence rolling-scan OLEDs too!

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post #15 of 39 Old 06-19-2013, 11:04 AM
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i will later... seems smoother but some modes flicker really bad. I only count it if it is stable image quality

Progressive modes wont go past 70-85hz.

Not too stable it seems. hmmm
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post #16 of 39 Old 07-20-2013, 04:23 PM - Thread Starter
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For people using the great shurcooL's Refresh Rate Multitool, to check if an overclocked HDTV or monitor is frame-skipping or not:

There's a much easier, new web-based tool at TestUFO for frame rate skipping checks:
www.testufo.com/#test=frameskipping

For accurate "perfect-VSYNC" frame skipping checks up to 240Hz, use only Chrome (chrome://gpu enabled) or Opera 15+. Internet Explorer 10 can do accurate frame skipping checks up to about 105Hz. FireFox 24+ pre-beta does great frame skipping checks at 60Hz, but starts to degrade as you go higher. Quit all applications, disable tools that accesses disk, and give 100% CPU to the webbrowser. Check your webbrowser's VSYNC support. Typically, your web browser needs to be freshly upgraded and your computer needs a GPU, in order to run this test accurately.

You do not need a high speed camera; it works with a standard photographic camera set to a 1/10th second shutter speed. It's very easy to tell if a frame has been skipped, if you see gaps in the resulting photograph of this motion test pattern. Even an iPhone camera works too!

Thanks,
Mark Rejhon

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BlurBusters Blog -- Eliminating Motion Blur by 90%+ on LCD for games and computers

Rooting for upcoming low-persistence rolling-scan OLEDs too!

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post #17 of 39 Old 07-30-2013, 06:22 AM
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Why focus just on 120Hz? Anything over 60Hz would be useful, particularly starting at 71.928Hz or 72Hz.
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post #18 of 39 Old 08-06-2013, 04:50 PM
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interesting. what name brand is a best bet for this working?
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post #19 of 39 Old 08-07-2013, 07:56 AM
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Mark, when I read this thread, I found myself hoping there would be a warning near the very top of the original post with words to the effect of:

 

If your TV shows 1080 @ 120Hz

it does NOT mean that it is actually

displaying all 120 frames per second.

You MUST run one of the following

utilities and visually inspect the results.

Use this link to do this from your browser.

You cannot trust monitor configuration

utilities...(etc.)

 

I'm just worried that if you don't put something like this near the top, people will gloss over the post and we'll be back to endless "HEY IT WORKS!" false posts.  Those kinds of posts are problematic because they can influence someone's buying decision.
 


Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent. Unless, of course, it's to keep someone from creating a phone video in portrait mode, in which case it's a pretty good first step. Portrait mooks: KNOCK IT OFF.
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post #20 of 39 Old 09-21-2013, 09:24 AM
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So I have a ST60 Panasonic using a nvidia 660ti/hdmi straight to my tv with the CRU utility. When i go to my monitor display setting in control panel the highest refresh rate I get is 60hz. Ive tried lowering the resolution and refresh rate in CRU, but that didn't help.

I used the Refresh Rate Multitool to confirm all this. Should this be working or am I just unlucky :\ ?
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post #21 of 39 Old 10-25-2013, 06:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Rejhon View Post

Added:
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobbitybob 
Successful:
- Sony KDL-50R550A 50″
- Sony KDL-60R550A 60″
- Sony KDL-70R550A 70″
Resolution: 1080p @ 120Hz
Source: AVSFORUM post by bobbitybob

“720p@120hz confirmed working. Kinda funny, before on 1080 I didn't notice a difference figuring I'm just getting too old for this stuff, having never used a 120hz monitor before, but I knew instantly with the real 120hz that it's working. What a huge difference in smoothness and reduction in blur. Just nuts. Tested with RRM (Refresh Rate Multitool) as well to verify.”
(NOTE: 720p was good; 1080p was frameskipping, but may be DVI adaptor (limitation). Best to test using direct HDMI-to-HDMI connection from PC-to-TV.)

 

Mark, I remember this discussion in the thread.  He was mistaken---his final output at the end was showing frame discarding at 1080p/120.  You mention this at the bottom of the quote in a note, but should make "720p/120" what is listed right below the TV models, because that's the only thing confirmed.  People won't read through to the note at the end, they'll just quote the top over and over.


Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent. Unless, of course, it's to keep someone from creating a phone video in portrait mode, in which case it's a pretty good first step. Portrait mooks: KNOCK IT OFF.
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post #22 of 39 Old 10-25-2013, 10:23 AM
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And coincidentally, someone in the R550A thread just pointed out a similar confusion with that entry from your website.  Here's their post in the R550A thread.

 

Mark, I would feel better if you fixed that line to state 720p/120.


Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent. Unless, of course, it's to keep someone from creating a phone video in portrait mode, in which case it's a pretty good first step. Portrait mooks: KNOCK IT OFF.
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post #23 of 39 Old 11-04-2013, 06:33 PM
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What are the risks of attempting this on a plasma?

Would love to try it on my 65ST50 but have read many warnings about doing this on computer monitors regarding burning them out
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post #24 of 39 Old 11-05-2013, 05:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Logun View Post

What are the risks of attempting this on a plasma?

Would love to try it on my 65ST50 but have read many warnings about doing this on computer monitors regarding burning them out

 

Do you have a link to one of those warnings?  This might have been true in the CRT days (wasn't there a timing circuit that could overheat?), but now?

 

There's nothing that can burn out:  Just interpolation alone is already driving the panel at that rate, and the input stream is a digital feed.  It either can be read at that rate or it cannot (with the side weirdness of frame discarding of course).


Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent. Unless, of course, it's to keep someone from creating a phone video in portrait mode, in which case it's a pretty good first step. Portrait mooks: KNOCK IT OFF.
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post #25 of 39 Old 11-05-2013, 11:38 AM
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Why isn't 1080p 120hz input common now? I had the Seiki 4K and it was able to do it and games looked pretty cool. I would assume with the new HDMI revisions all the boards would accept this, but I haven't heard any of the TV manufacturers talking about real 120hz. Is it expensive to implement or what?
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post #26 of 39 Old 11-05-2013, 01:17 PM
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Originally Posted by tgm1024 View Post

Do you have a link to one of those warnings?  This might have been true in the CRT days (wasn't there a timing circuit that could overheat?), but now?

There's nothing that can burn out:  Just interpolation alone is already driving the panel at that rate, and the input stream is a digital feed.  It either can be read at that rate or it cannot (with the side weirdness of frame discarding of course).

I went looking and it was just a statement that the only concern in OC'ing would be the extra heat. So long as there is a safeguard in the TV to ensure I don't fry anything I am keen to try this out
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post #27 of 39 Old 11-05-2013, 02:12 PM
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Why isn't 1080p 120hz input common now? I had the Seiki 4K and it was able to do it and games looked pretty cool. I would assume with the new HDMI revisions all the boards would accept this, but I haven't heard any of the TV manufacturers talking about real 120hz. Is it expensive to implement or what?

 

Just because your TV announces in the corner that it's receiver 1080p 120Hz doesn't mean that it's displaying 1080p 120Hz.  It could well be doing what several displays so far have been found doing: keeping the resolution (1080) but "frame dropping" (or "frame discarding").  You need to run a utility and visually inspect the results to see if all 120 frames that are coming in every second are being displayed.  The nVidia control pannel thing has no understanding of this at all---it wouldn't know either way.


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post #28 of 39 Old 11-05-2013, 02:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tgm1024 View Post

Do you have a link to one of those warnings?  This might have been true in the CRT days (wasn't there a timing circuit that could overheat?), but now?

There's nothing that can burn out:  Just interpolation alone is already driving the panel at that rate, and the input stream is a digital feed.  It either can be read at that rate or it cannot (with the side weirdness of frame discarding of course).

I went looking and it was just a statement that the only concern in OC'ing would be the extra heat. So long as there is a safeguard in the TV to ensure I don't fry anything I am keen to try this out

 

The TV already knows how to drive itself at that rate (for interpolation).  Who said it, and what was supposed to overheat?  It doesn't preclude it from deciding to frame drop when driven through HDMI at 120Hz however.


Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent. Unless, of course, it's to keep someone from creating a phone video in portrait mode, in which case it's a pretty good first step. Portrait mooks: KNOCK IT OFF.
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post #29 of 39 Old 11-06-2013, 11:57 AM
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It was here from the EVGA forums - to be specific we were talking about the monitor OC and not a Plasma OC

http://forums.evga.com/FindPost/2043324
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post #30 of 39 Old 11-06-2013, 02:14 PM
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It was here from the EVGA forums - to be specific we were talking about the monitor OC and not a Plasma OC

http://forums.evga.com/FindPost/2043324

 

I'd like to know why.  It doesn't make any sense to me at all.


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