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post #1 of 23 Old 11-14-2012, 06:13 PM - Thread Starter
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Samsung Smart HDTV & its DTS Neo 2:5 Audio Mode

What the heck is DTS Neo 2:5 Audio Mode?

Is this propriatary to Samsung TVs only?

Why is it only available for External Speaker Audio Mode only?

The only way I can watch Multi-Channel Surround Sound to my AVR while streaming Amazon movies thru my Smart Hub is if I have DTS Neo 2:5 Mode Enabled under Autio Settings...
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post #2 of 23 Old 11-14-2012, 06:23 PM
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DTS Neo is a matrix surround encoded 2 channel PCM audio signal. Similar to Dolby Surround matrix encoding, but it is proprietary to DTS.

Similar settings are used for the analog output jack settings on a DVD / Blu-ray player. You get to choose between straight 2 channel stereo PCM or Dolby Surround Matrix encoded outputs.

In order to play matrix encoding back, you have to use PL-2 or DTS Neo decoding in your AVR. Your TV only has 2 internal speakers, so decoding DTS NEO is not possible via TV speakers.

Straight multi-channel Dolby Digital or DTS formats will light up the Dolby Digital or DTS indicator on your AVR.
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post #3 of 23 Old 11-14-2012, 08:37 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J_Palmer_Cass View Post

DTS Neo is a matrix surround encoded 2 channel PCM audio signal. Similar to Dolby Surround matrix encoding, but it is proprietary to DTS.
Similar settings are used for the analog output jack settings on a DVD / Blu-ray player. You get to choose between straight 2 channel stereo PCM or Dolby Surround Matrix encoded outputs.
In order to play matrix encoding back, you have to use PL-2 or DTS Neo decoding in your AVR. Your TV only has 2 internal speakers, so decoding DTS NEO is not possible via TV speakers.
Straight multi-channel Dolby Digital or DTS formats will light up the Dolby Digital or DTS indicator on your AVR.

ok so is similar to analog stereo when gets upconverted to Pro Logic II by the AVR. So DTS NEO is just being sent to the AVR digitally and being Matrixed by the AVR into surround sound DTS.

can you hear the difference between PURE TRUE DTS 5.1 and DTS NEO? I know PRO LOGIC II SUCKS, I can definitely tell when PL2 is on....

so what is " 2:5 " after the DTS NEO? Just a fancy name for matrixed DTS?
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post #4 of 23 Old 11-15-2012, 05:44 AM
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Information about DTS NEO and Samsung TVs. "The DTS audio solution provides consumers with a seamless conversion from stereo to surround sound audio for elevated vocal quality and a more engaging, immersive sound. The "DTS' audio solution allows up-mixing to 5.1 channels of surround sound via the Samsung TV ".



July 17, 2012
DTS and Samsung Partner to Deliver Superior Audio Experience to Premium Smart TVs

DTS Audio Solution Enriches the Surround Sound Experience of Samsung Smart TVs

CALABASAS, Calif.--(BUSINESS WIRE)-- DTS, Inc. (Nasdaq: DTSI), a leader in high-definition audio, today announced a collaboration with Samsung Electronics Co., Ltd to integrate DTS' audio solution into select models of Samsung's 2012 premium Smart TV line. This worldwide implementation will deliver rich surround sound to Samsung's flagship 7000 and 8000 series LED and plasma TVs, offering consumers the ultimate home theater listening experience.

"Our goal is to improve consumers' television watching experiences by providing rich, immersive audio," stated Brian Towne, executive vice president and chief operating officer at DTS, Inc. "The DTS audio solution allows users to effortlessly enjoy multi-channel surround sound regardless of the audio source."

The DTS audio solution provides consumers with a seamless conversion from stereo to surround sound audio for elevated vocal quality and a more engaging, immersive sound. DTS' audio solution allows up-mixing to 5.1 channels of surround sound via the Samsung TV in order to provide a superior audio entertainment experience to consumers across a variety of applications, including:

Enhanced cinema viewing—broadcasts movies and television shows in surround sound for a captivating, immersive entertainment experience;
Elevated music listening—delivers music with more depth and realism to better mimic the quality originally intended by musicians and producers;
Heightened engagement for gaming—provides multi-dimensional audio to complement today's visually stimulating video games for the ultimate gaming experience.
"DTS is becoming a significant leader in the television market as demonstrated by the growing number of leading TV manufacturers that are leveraging DTS' audio solution to deliver a superior audio experience to the consumer," said Jea Yoo, DTS vice president and president of DTS Korea.

Visit DTS for more information, or connect with DTS on Facebook and Twitter (@DTS_Inc).



http://investor.dts.com/releasedetail.cfm?ReleaseID=692470
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post #5 of 23 Old 11-15-2012, 05:53 AM
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I also noticed that my Sony Blu-ray player's setup menu has a DTS NEO-6 option that is applied to the Blu-ray HDMI output. Options are OFF, NEO-6 movie and NEO-6 music.

I had it set to OFF, but I will have to look into things to see how and when NEO-6 bis applied. I suspect that it takes a two channels input and tries to upmix it to 5.1 simulated surround.
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post #6 of 23 Old 11-15-2012, 07:35 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J_Palmer_Cass View Post

I also noticed that my Sony Blu-ray player's setup menu has a DTS NEO-6 option that is applied to the Blu-ray HDMI output. Options are OFF, NEO-6 movie and NEO-6 music.
I had it set to OFF, but I will have to look into things to see how and when NEO-6 bis applied. I suspect that it takes a two channels input and tries to upmix it to 5.1 simulated surround.

Its a nice concept to matrix stereo into "Simulated 5.1 DTS". I bet is way better than Pro Logic 2....

But make no mistake...any kind of "Simulated, Matrixed, Upconverted" stereo into 5.1 WILL NEVER BEAT THE REAL THING...

Nothing like having the intended sounds coming out of the intended & respective 5.1 channels.

Don't you hate when you listen to this fake matrixed crappy sound, and speech/dialog is coming out of your subwoofer....lol...

ITS ALL A BIG GIMMICK!
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post #7 of 23 Old 11-15-2012, 07:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EndeaverouX View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by J_Palmer_Cass View Post

DTS Neo is a matrix surround encoded 2 channel PCM audio signal. Similar to Dolby Surround matrix encoding, but it is proprietary to DTS.
Similar settings are used for the analog output jack settings on a DVD / Blu-ray player. You get to choose between straight 2 channel stereo PCM or Dolby Surround Matrix encoded outputs.
In order to play matrix encoding back, you have to use PL-2 or DTS Neo decoding in your AVR. Your TV only has 2 internal speakers, so decoding DTS NEO is not possible via TV speakers.
Straight multi-channel Dolby Digital or DTS formats will light up the Dolby Digital or DTS indicator on your AVR.

ok so is similar to analog stereo when gets upconverted to Pro Logic II by the AVR. So DTS NEO is just being sent to the AVR digitally and being Matrixed by the AVR into surround sound DTS.

can you hear the difference between PURE TRUE DTS 5.1 and DTS NEO? I know PRO LOGIC II SUCKS, I can definitely tell when PL2 is on....

so what is " 2:5 " after the DTS NEO? Just a fancy name for matrixed DTS?



DTS Neo upmixes 2 channel audio to 5.1 surround.

Check your AVR control panel display to see what is activated when you use that DTS Neo upmix.

It is not DD, so the DD indicator in the AVR control panel will not be activated.

If is indeed a conversion to DTS, then the DTS indicator in the AVR will be activated.

If PL-2 or DTS Neo decoding is activated in the AVR, there should be some indication on your AVR control panel.

My receiver has a multi-channel LED (Blue) that illuminates when multi-channel Dd or DTS is decoded. If you have a similar feature on your AVR, look at that indicator.


Do a check and let others know what you find out.
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post #8 of 23 Old 11-15-2012, 07:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EndeaverouX View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by J_Palmer_Cass View Post

I also noticed that my Sony Blu-ray player's setup menu has a DTS NEO-6 option that is applied to the Blu-ray HDMI output. Options are OFF, NEO-6 movie and NEO-6 music.
I had it set to OFF, but I will have to look into things to see how and when NEO-6 bis applied. I suspect that it takes a two channels input and tries to upmix it to 5.1 simulated surround.

Its a nice concept to matrix stereo into "Simulated 5.1 DTS". I bet is way better than Pro Logic 2....

But make no mistake...any kind of "Simulated, Matrixed, Upconverted" stereo into 5.1 WILL NEVER BEAT THE REAL THING...

Nothing like having the intended sounds coming out of the intended & respective 5.1 channels.

Don't you hate when you listen to this fake matrixed crappy sound, and speech/dialog is coming out of your subwoofer....lol...

ITS ALL A BIG GIMMICK!



I prefer DTS 5.1 audio when it is available.

Pretty much you are on target if DD 5.1 is available. DTS 5.1 will not play or pass through my TV either, but DD 5.1 will. If DD 5.1 is not available, then no big deal for the upmix.

The trouble is, the vast majority of OTA audio is not broadcast in DD 5.1 audio. Primetime shows are not that bad for High Def along with DD 5.1 audio, but the sub channels never use DD 5.1 sound. Non prime time does not use much DD 5.1 content either.

If you use your Samsung for OTA programs via the TV tuner, check out the audio menu in the Samsung. I read that a few more audio options show in the TV menu.
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post #9 of 23 Old 11-16-2012, 07:44 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
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I prefer DTS 5.1 audio when it is available.
Pretty much you are on target if DD 5.1 is available. DTS 5.1 will not play or pass through my TV either, but DD 5.1 will. If DD 5.1 is not available, then no big deal for the upmix.
The trouble is, the vast majority of OTA audio is not broadcast in DD 5.1 audio. Primetime shows are not that bad for High Def along with DD 5.1 audio, but the sub channels never use DD 5.1 sound. Non prime time does not use much DD 5.1 content either.
If you use your Samsung for OTA programs via the TV tuner, check out the audio menu in the Samsung. I read that a few more audio options show in the TV menu.

I never use OTA channels anyway, I have a comcast motorola hd dvr...

my main beef is with the smart hub and lack of multi audio channel support...

I prefer DTS 5.1 too... great low end sound.....
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post #10 of 23 Old 11-26-2012, 10:22 AM - Thread Starter
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after plenty of homework, and calling samsung, amazon & netflix:
Here are the facts about Samsung Smart Hub Apps:

Netflix VOD: Discreet 5.1 DD/DTS via HDMI & Optical - YES, yes on PS3 too...
Amazon VOD: Discreet 5.1 DD/DTS via HDMI & Optical - NO NO NO, but yes on my PS3
VUDU VOD: Discreet 5.1 DD/DTS via HDMI & Optical - NO NO NO, but yes on my PS3


If you guys can test your sets and let me know if you come up with the same conclusion....
Bottom line, more firmware updates are needed for sure..
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post #11 of 23 Old 01-16-2013, 07:27 AM
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Neo:6 is DTS' version of PLIIx and has been around for a long time. Neo:X is a more recent addition allowing for more channels. Neo 2:5 only seems to be mentioned in relation to Samsung TVs and is likely some lesser flavor of Neo:6 that the TV produces from stereo sources. I am also curious what an AVR reports when fed a Neo 2:5 signal.
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post #12 of 23 Old 01-16-2013, 08:09 AM - Thread Starter
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Neo:6 is DTS' version of PLIIx and has been around for a long time. Neo:X is a more recent addition allowing for more channels. Neo 2:5 only seems to be mentioned in relation to Samsung TVs and is likely some lesser flavor of Neo:6 that the TV produces from stereo sources. I am also curious what an AVR reports when fed a Neo 2:5 signal.

Neo 2:5 is propriatary to samsung....when fed to an AVR via Optical it shows Discreet 5.1 DTS....sounds pretty good I must Admit.....
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post #13 of 23 Old 01-16-2013, 08:12 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EndeaverouX View Post

after plenty of homework, and calling samsung, amazon & netflix:
Here are the facts about Samsung Smart Hub Apps:

Netflix VOD: Discreet 5.1 DD/DTS via HDMI & Optical - YES, yes on PS3 too...
Amazon VOD: Discreet 5.1 DD/DTS via HDMI & Optical - NO NO NO, but yes on my PS3
VUDU VOD: Discreet 5.1 DD/DTS via HDMI & Optical - NO NO NO, but yes on my PS3


If you guys can test your sets and let me know if you come up with the same conclusion....
Bottom line, more firmware updates are needed for sure..

UPDATE as of Jan.15th 2013....

Netflix and Amazon on Smarthub got new updates and they both truly output in 5.1 DD/DTS discreet Surrround sound.....I gotta find out bout vudu now....
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post #14 of 23 Old 01-16-2013, 06:37 PM
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I am surprised that Neo 2:5 would show on an AVR as DTS Surround since that is not what it is. Neo 2:5 is some sort of matrix process applied to stereo sources. I guess they package it in a DTS envelope since sound processors don't have Neo 2:5 decoders. I suspect you'd get an output as good, if not better, by sending the stereo source and applying PLII or Neo:6 in the AVR.

As for Netflix and Amazon, is there any DTS source material from those services?
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post #15 of 23 Old 01-17-2013, 08:21 AM - Thread Starter
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I am surprised that Neo 2:5 would show on an AVR as DTS Surround since that is not what it is. Neo 2:5 is some sort of matrix process applied to stereo sources. I guess they package it in a DTS envelope since sound processors don't have Neo 2:5 decoders. I suspect you'd get an output as good, if not better, by sending the stereo source and applying PLII or Neo:6 in the AVR.

As for Netflix and Amazon, is there any DTS source material from those services?

is not really up to netflix or amazon or vudu to output the audio in DD or DTS or Stereo...However the blueray/dvd discs were encoded with the audio tracks, thats what they give you with online streaming services....

Most movies are encoded in DD, some are in DTS....I love DTS...more low end frequency sounds......
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post #16 of 23 Old 01-17-2013, 05:34 PM
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I don't think that's how it works. If they were taking audio from discs, nearly all HD movies would have DTS tracks because the vast majority of BDs only have dts-MA tracks. But, of course, no streaming selections on Netflix or Amazon use DTS. The best you can get is DD+, a codec that is never used on discs. I believe the movies are streamed from servers, where the audio is encoded per the vendor's specification.

Meanwhile, DTS is a data compression codec and has no more low end than the same track encoded using DD. DTS is often louder than Dolby due to dialnorm. But, that's about it for audible differences.
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post #17 of 23 Old 01-18-2013, 08:08 AM - Thread Starter
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I don't think that's how it works. If they were taking audio from discs, nearly all HD movies would have DTS tracks because the vast majority of BDs only have dts-MA tracks. But, of course, no streaming selections on Netflix or Amazon use DTS. The best you can get is DD+, a codec that is never used on discs. I believe the movies are streamed from servers, where the audio is encoded per the vendor's specification.

Meanwhile, DTS is a data compression codec and has no more low end than the same track encoded using DD. DTS is often louder than Dolby due to dialnorm. But, that's about it for audible differences.

of course the movies are streamed from servers.... Im gonna do some more research, but not every bluray is encoded only in DTS....its either DD or DTS....nerver both....I gotta find out what the breakedown really is..

Im gonna do some more homework...Ill get back to you guys....
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post #18 of 23 Old 01-18-2013, 08:46 AM
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The vast majority of BDs have dts-MA tracks. A small number have TrueHD.
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post #19 of 23 Old 01-18-2013, 09:12 AM - Thread Starter
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The vast majority of BDs have dts-MA tracks. A small number have TrueHD.

what percentage would you say for each DTS and DD?

good article below....

http://reviews.cnet.com/4520-13817_7-6462511-4.html

Regardless of the reasons behind the moves, it is interesting to see the DTS codec now dominating the Blu-ray landscape with over 45% percent of the lossless audio Blu-ray releases, when at launch it looked like it simply wasn’t ready for prime time at all. source is below....

http://www.blu-raystats.com/NewsLog/2010/01/15/dts-hd-master-audio-becoming-the-blu-ray-standard/
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post #20 of 23 Old 01-18-2013, 05:28 PM
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If you look at the stats page on the site you linked, you'll see that dts-MA leads TrueHD 61% to 16%. That gap is even larger among newer releases. Clearly, streaming services do not simply use whatever codec is on the disc releases.
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post #21 of 23 Old 01-20-2013, 06:44 AM - Thread Starter
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If you look at the stats page on the site you linked, you'll see that dts-MA leads TrueHD 61% to 16%. That gap is even larger among newer releases. Clearly, streaming services do not simply use whatever codec is on the disc releases.

I know DD was more popular with regular DVDs back in the day....now blurays I guess are using more DTS...either way I like it....
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post #22 of 23 Old 01-20-2013, 01:30 PM
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DD was a mandatory format on DVD and DTS was optional. DTS also takes up more room on a disc. So, it was not used very much on DVD while most movies had DD 5.1 tracks. Neither is mandatory on Blu-ray and most studios have chosen to go with dts-MA.
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post #23 of 23 Old 09-01-2014, 06:57 AM
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Since neither Samsung nor DTS seem to want to share on this, here's my guess. First, what I know:

1) My cable box outputs DD 5.1 over HDMI to my TV.
2) My Samsung UN55H8000 TV converts that to DTS NEO 2:5, when I select that option, and sends it over Toslink optical to my AVR.
3) My Onkyo TX-NR509 AVR displays DTS when I do this. It also displays DTS now for TV received Netflix and DLNA from server.
4) It sounds good. I'm getting front, surround, center and bass like I'd expect from straight DD 5.1 or DTS.

My guess is the TV is decoding the DD 5.1 and, for whatever reason, possibly copyright/legal, recoding it to DTS NEO 2:5 which is carrying 5, possibly 6 (5.1), channels to the AVR which it decodes and routes correctly. The AVR does bass management, and I'm using old school 15" woofer main speakers, so I can't be sure about the LFE channel except that I hear good bass.

Why Samsung doesn't just come right out and tell us what they're doing beats the hell out of me or at least would if I didn't suspect lawyers are playing engineer again. I'd sleep a bit easier if I knew for sure my setup is optimal but since it sounds good, I sleep easy enough.

Last edited by Doug Haxton; 09-01-2014 at 07:50 AM.
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