Vizio E701i-A3 Owners Thread - Page 58 - AVS Forum
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post #1711 of 2607 Old 12-29-2013, 08:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eric3316 View Post

This is really a tough call which to go for. The ST60 is a huge step up from this Vizio in PQ. Not even in the same ballpark but a 70" TV vs a 60" TV is also a significant difference. How far will you be sitting from the TV? How important is PQ to you and black levels. What is your feeling on clouding and flashlighting. Do you watch a lot of movies or shows at night with the lights outs or in a dim environment?

Thanks for the feedback. Seating distance is probably between 12 and 14 feet. Most viewing will be movies at night (lights out), although I will occasionally use it to watch a movie or sports (particularly, football) during the day. I don't really have an opinion on flashlighting or clouding. I've never had any educated experience with those issues. It could be that I have been experiencing them for years and never knew. Similarly, it is really difficult for me to gauge the importance of picture quality and black levels. I've lived with a 42" Toshiba for 5 years and my only long-run complaint is that the picture (w/ default settings) during dark movie scenes is really poor to the point that I sometimes can't tell what is going on. I've adjusted the settings to address this, but it ruins my black levels (blacks appear dark grey). This hasn't bothered me terribly but I know it is not optimal. Also, I've recently been seeing what I think is electrical interference in the form of light horizontal, rolling bars on the screen. This drives me nuts, but I have yet to find the time to reorganize my electrical and A/V wiring.

Not sure any of the above changes anything? I think I may just have to go to the store, let the salesman do his job--persuade me to purchase one or the other--and then give it a trial run at home. Thanks again.
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post #1712 of 2607 Old 12-29-2013, 08:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anon314 View Post


Thanks for the feedback. Seating distance is probably between 12 and 14 feet. Most viewing will be movies at night (lights out), although I will occasionally use it to watch a movie or sports (particularly, football) during the day. I don't really have an opinion on flashlighting or clouding. I've never had any educated experience with those issues. It could be that I have been experiencing them for years and never knew. Similarly, it is really difficult for me to gauge the importance of picture quality and black levels. I've lived with a 42" Toshiba for 5 years and my only long-run complaint is that the picture (w/ default settings) during dark movie scenes is really poor to the point that I sometimes can't tell what is going on. I've adjusted the settings to address this, but it ruins my black levels (blacks appear dark grey). This hasn't bothered me terribly but I know it is not optimal. Also, I've recently been seeing what I think is electrical interference in the form of light horizontal, rolling bars on the screen. This drives me nuts, but I have yet to find the time to reorganize my electrical and A/V wiring.

Not sure any of the above changes anything? I think I may just have to go to the store, let the salesman do his job--persuade me to purchase one or the other--and then give it a trial run at home. Thanks again.

At 12-14ft I would go with 70" for sure.  

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post #1713 of 2607 Old 12-29-2013, 09:59 AM
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Originally Posted by primetimeguy View Post

At 12-14ft I would go with 70" for sure.  

Thanks. I think I'm starting to lean that way. However, prices just jumped today on the Vizio to $1699 so I may have to wait it out for a while...
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post #1714 of 2607 Old 12-29-2013, 10:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by primetimeguy View Post

At 12-14ft I would go with 70" for sure.  
Yes, but seeing this:

"Most viewing will be movies at night (lights out)"

gets this back at least into the tough call category. I don't know if my Vizio 70 is better or worse than average, but there is no way it will give the INKY blacks of a good plasma like the Panasonic or better local dimming LCD. I don't know why, but even with the backlight, contrast and brightness set to zero, the screen is not black in a dark room unless powered off. I watched a letterboxed movie, Master and Commander, last night and it was obvious the bars around the image were not black. UPDATE: Even though the screen is still lit at zero backlight, the backlight setting certainly does affect the light bleeding through the "black" areas of the screen, and watching movies in the dark with the backlight set to 15-30 virtually eliminates the "gray" black bars and improves the darkness of shaded areas. The TV still shows great detail in shadows and provides a theater-like image with the brightness and contrast settings left unchanged. So, daylight backlight setting of 50-75 and DARK room setting of 15-30. See images added at end of post from Avatar.

But here's the reason I'm still happy with the set and don't care much about the bars not being black. Within the image there is great detail in the "black" areas and no artifacts that I have seen on other sets. One of my very early plasma sets just had pools of gray where there should have been detail. With properly set contrast and brightness, the Vizio shows great dynamic range with no crushing of whites or blacks. The gray scale and color accuracy is very good. Motion handling, even with the smoothing feature disabled, is good. View angle is not bad, but of course the plasma would be FAR superior if viewing angle is important. Full screen (no black bars), the image is hard to fault. And in a bright room the Vizio does extremely well. Most 1080P plasmas fail under those conditions. They just do not have the light output of an LED like the Vizio or that the older 720P plasmas had.

The problem is this is all very individual and somewhat unpredictable. My previous Samsung UN46B8500 was regarded as the best LED of 2010, with black levels and image quality second only to the legendary Kuro plasma. Despite the noted flaws with the Vizio, I don't miss the Samsung. I had more trouble getting the old Samsung to not crush blacks and display a good gray scale. I would see a LOT of dithering in dark areas with the Samsung. I see none of that with the Vizio. The color engine has improved over the last few years. From a simple viewing standpoint, the image on the Vizio is stunning.

So, what are you going to do? The safe bet would be to get the Panasonic and probably be quite happy. An alternative would be to "try" the Vizio from somewhere like Costco that has a liberal return policy. I don't like the practice of buying and returning sets largely for "testing" purposes, but I don't see a way around that. You're never going to be able to evaluate dark room performance of a set in the usual retail setting.

The extra 10" size at 12-14 feet would be a very attractive feature, as primetimeguy noted. And without black bars, I doubt the Vizio image will disappoint you unless you get one of the unfortunately somewhat common defective units that suffers from significant flashlighting or those strange white dots that appear after some use.

I don't think I've helped you. It's still a tough call. My personal style is to take calculated chances, and that's what I did with the Vizio, and so far I don't regret that. Coming from that 42" Toshiba you have now with obviously very bad black levels, I think the Vizio will blow your mind not only in terms of size but image quality as well.

UPDATE:
These are handheld phone screnshots in a dark room of a scene from Avatar that has great shadow detail. With a backlight of only 15 the shadow detail is still excellent (hard to distinguish from backlight of 50) while the backlight bleed through is considerably less which will darken black bars (not shown) and reduce murkiness in shadows.



farkem likes this.
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post #1715 of 2607 Old 12-29-2013, 10:55 AM
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Sadly my set I bought in August now has bad white dots. Guess it is time to call Vizio. I think given the number that have shown up here ALL sets from a certain build time-frame have this.

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post #1716 of 2607 Old 12-29-2013, 11:44 AM
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Another thing to think about, blacks on a screen in a movie theater are not dark or inky at all but you are more immersed in the picture due to the size of the screen. Your not thinking about color saturation or black levels because you are more concentrated on the screen just being so large.

If edge lit LEDs were not prone to clouding and flashlighting I would not doubt be rocking a 70-75" LED but right now I am limited to 65 inches of a plasma although I keep wanting to go bigger, coming to the LED section and seeing pictures of screen issues and things I have seen with my LEDs keeps telling me to keep the plasma.

Size for size though, no doubt an ST60, VT60 and ZT60 are the best TV'S money can buy right now for sheer pq as well as Samsung's plasma F8500.
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post #1717 of 2607 Old 12-29-2013, 06:57 PM
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I appreciate the input from everyone. I have found it all very helpful. Although I'm still rather conflicted, I'm slowly settling on the Vizio. If I were the only one using the TV, I might very well get the Panasonic and I might still if I purchase the Vizio and have issues. However, after reading everyone's comments here and talking it over with my wife (I don't usually run technical pros/cons by my wife on my electronics purchases but was looking for a tie breaker), it just feels like the Vizio is going to be a better fit. I don't want to be worrying that my family will cause burn-in on the ST60 or have them feeling uncomfortable using it. And none of us are truly videophiles so unless I get a set with really bad flashlighting or clouding, the picture quality of the Vizio will probably be more than adequate.

I'm still open to further comments/insights but wanted to thank everyone who responded thus far. I will probably be making my purchase in the next week.
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post #1718 of 2607 Old 12-30-2013, 02:44 AM
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Would u guys mount this or not?

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post #1719 of 2607 Old 12-30-2013, 11:14 AM
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what is a recommended wall mount for this 70" beast


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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post #1720 of 2607 Old 12-30-2013, 12:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anon314 View Post

Thanks. I think I'm starting to lean that way. However, prices just jumped today on the Vizio to $1699 so I may have to wait it out for a while...

Sams Club has it for $1398, and it includes a wall mount, HDMI cable and some other doo-dads.


http://www.samsclub.com/sams/70-120hz-led-bundle-w-mount-kit/prod12480169.ip?cid=SPOT_3UP_1

Then for a little peace of mind, you can take the $100 that you saved over the Panasonic and put it towards a Squaretrade warranty.....just a thought.
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post #1721 of 2607 Old 12-30-2013, 12:57 PM
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mlgary,

I'm quoting a post I made months ago....



I am using this mount from Monoprice.

http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=108&cp_id=10828&cs_id=1082812&p_id=5918&seq=1&format=2

It's hard to believe considering the low price of $14, but the mount is very sturdy. It also has 3 different mounting height positions, which is really neat. The Vizio is 2.2" thick and mounted using this mount the front of the TV is right at 3" from the wall. It looks awesome. Here's a crappy cell phone pic I snapped of it. I have this same mount in the bedroom with a older 42" LCD as well.


[/quote]
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post #1722 of 2607 Old 12-30-2013, 01:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bama J View Post

Sams Club has it for $1398, and it includes a wall mount, HDMI cable and some other doo-dads.


http://www.samsclub.com/sams/70-120hz-led-bundle-w-mount-kit/prod12480169.ip?cid=SPOT_3UP_1

Then for a little peace of mind, you can take the $100 that you saved over the Panasonic and put it towards a Squaretrade warranty.....just a thought.

Saw this offer earlier and had a similar thought. Thanks.
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post #1723 of 2607 Old 12-31-2013, 04:08 PM
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Well, after much debate and fielding a few comments on Panasonic ST60 owner's thread as well, I pulled the trigger today and purchased the Vizio bundle from Sam's Club online. Ultimately, the Vizio just felt like it was going to be a better fit for my needs and circumstances (e.g., seating distance, family use, etc.). Hopefully, I won't regret it.

Thanks again for everyone's input. Cheers. And Happy New Year's!
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post #1724 of 2607 Old 12-31-2013, 04:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Ball View Post

Yes, but seeing this:

"Most viewing will be movies at night (lights out)"

gets this back at least into the tough call category. I don't know if my Vizio 70 is better or worse than average, but there is no way it will give the INKY blacks of a good plasma like the Panasonic or better local dimming LCD. I don't know why, but even with the backlight, contrast and brightness set to zero, the screen is not black in a dark room unless powered off. I watched a letterboxed movie, Master and Commander, last night and it was obvious the bars around the image were not black. UPDATE: Even though the screen is still lit at zero backlight, the backlight setting certainly does affect the light bleeding through the "black" areas of the screen, and watching movies in the dark with the backlight set to 15-30 virtually eliminates the "gray" black bars and improves the darkness of shaded areas. The TV still shows great detail in shadows and provides a theater-like image with the brightness and contrast settings left unchanged. So, daylight backlight setting of 50-75 and DARK room setting of 15-30. See images added at end of post from Avatar.

But here's the reason I'm still happy with the set and don't care much about the bars not being black. Within the image there is great detail in the "black" areas and no artifacts that I have seen on other sets. One of my very early plasma sets just had pools of gray where there should have been detail. With properly set contrast and brightness, the Vizio shows great dynamic range with no crushing of whites or blacks. The gray scale and color accuracy is very good. Motion handling, even with the smoothing feature disabled, is good. View angle is not bad, but of course the plasma would be FAR superior if viewing angle is important. Full screen (no black bars), the image is hard to fault. And in a bright room the Vizio does extremely well. Most 1080P plasmas fail under those conditions. They just do not have the light output of an LED like the Vizio or that the older 720P plasmas had.

The problem is this is all very individual and somewhat unpredictable. My previous Samsung UN46B8500 was regarded as the best LED of 2010, with black levels and image quality second only to the legendary Kuro plasma. Despite the noted flaws with the Vizio, I don't miss the Samsung. I had more trouble getting the old Samsung to not crush blacks and display a good gray scale. I would see a LOT of dithering in dark areas with the Samsung. I see none of that with the Vizio. The color engine has improved over the last few years. From a simple viewing standpoint, the image on the Vizio is stunning.

So, what are you going to do? The safe bet would be to get the Panasonic and probably be quite happy. An alternative would be to "try" the Vizio from somewhere like Costco that has a liberal return policy. I don't like the practice of buying and returning sets largely for "testing" purposes, but I don't see a way around that. You're never going to be able to evaluate dark room performance of a set in the usual retail setting.

The extra 10" size at 12-14 feet would be a very attractive feature, as primetimeguy noted. And without black bars, I doubt the Vizio image will disappoint you unless you get one of the unfortunately somewhat common defective units that suffers from significant flashlighting or those strange white dots that appear after some use.

I don't think I've helped you. It's still a tough call. My personal style is to take calculated chances, and that's what I did with the Vizio, and so far I don't regret that. Coming from that 42" Toshiba you have now with obviously very bad black levels, I think the Vizio will blow your mind not only in terms of size but image quality as well.

UPDATE:
These are handheld phone screnshots in a dark room of a scene from Avatar that has great shadow detail. With a backlight of only 15 the shadow detail is still excellent (hard to distinguish from backlight of 50) while the backlight bleed through is considerably less which will darken black bars (not shown) and reduce murkiness in shadows.




Interesting pics. I can barely tell any difference between them.
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post #1725 of 2607 Old 12-31-2013, 05:27 PM
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Interesting pics. I can barely tell any difference between them.
Yep. The main thing dropping the backlight did was lower the bleed through so black bars were closer to black. In the morning light I turned the set on and even at backlight 20 and it was quite viewable despite the ambient light. The screen puts out a lot of light.

Tonight if I have time I'll take some snapshots of the full screen just powered on at various backlight settings. At backlight 50-75 it is quite light. At 15-30 it is much darker.

I hope the 70 works out well for you. You sure can't complain about the price. Let us know how you find it.
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post #1726 of 2607 Old 01-01-2014, 03:19 AM
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More experience. Watched "Olympus Has Fallen" tonight on Netflix. This has many dark scenes that are not just dark, but dim over all, inside the White House during the siege. I ended up with the backlight at ZERO and still saw some gray in what ideally should be black. Could be the source, but it looked fabulous otherwise. That's right - backlight ZERO. In a pitch black room, it was still plenty bright. Screenshot pictures to follow.
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post #1727 of 2607 Old 01-01-2014, 09:51 AM
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Is your brightness set too high? Typically it should be below 50, to high will ruin blacks, in fact they shouldn't call that setting Brghtness, they should call it Black level.
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post #1728 of 2607 Old 01-01-2014, 11:49 AM
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Originally Posted by indept View Post

Is your brightness set too high? Typically it should be below 50, to high will ruin blacks, in fact they shouldn't call that setting Brightness, they should call it Black level.
Yes, I understand. In daylight with shades pulled to give a dimly lit but not dark environment both Disney WoW and HD709 calibration resulted in brightness of 51 and contrast of 73 with backlight of just about any setting, but the white areas look "paper white" at backlight of 50-75 with no change in the brightness and contrast test results. Dropping the brightness to 43 gives up some near black detail and calls for a contrast of 83. The problem seems to be that a lot of light comes through the screen just powered up with no image. This becomes very apparent in a dimly lit or dark room. Dropping the backlight WAY down decreases this but does not eliminate this even at backlight zero. Last night while watching Olympus Has Fallen, I dropped the brightness to 40 and that does further reduce the what I will call ambient screen light, but the image suffers loss of detail in blacks. At night in a dark room, backlight zero with brightness in the high 40s (no higher than 51) and contrast at 73 to 83 provides a surprisingly viewable image but there is still some of this ambient screen light. My old Samsung UN46B8500 becomes pitch black at brightness of 43 or lower even with local dimming disabled.

Anyway, I'm still fiddling with the 70 I just got last week. Watching Olympus Has Fallen last night stimulated me to look further at dealing with the light that permeates the 70's screen just powered on. Most LCDs have this issue and brightness does affect it like you say.

Also, I'm reading this now and may go back and redo all the calibration.
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1351213/for-those-struggling-with-brightness-contrast-backlight-settings-on-lcds

Reading whole thread, but this post caught my eye...
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1351213/for-those-struggling-with-brightness-contrast-backlight-settings-on-lcds#post_20766841
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post #1729 of 2607 Old 01-02-2014, 08:27 AM
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Guys I just wanted to add to this thread. I have light spots again on my replacement which I received in August. I bought my first one end of January and had the same issue.

I think I'm going to try to get another set as it's getting worse just like the previous one. I love the TV for the price but this issue is really starting to annoy me. I wish I knew what I could do to prevent this if anything. I know all these TVs have their nuances but not sure I could recommend Vizio based on this TV so far. Maybe I'm just unlucky? smile.gif

Has anyone had a successful replacement that did not repeat the issue months later?
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post #1730 of 2607 Old 01-03-2014, 07:26 AM
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Bought 2 in Feb 2013
LFTRNXAP0308544
LFTRNXAP0308545
One has over a thousand hours and has the white dots bad the other has less than 50 hours and has a few white dots starting to appear. I have contacted Vizio it will be interesting what they send me to replace these faulty screens.
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post #1731 of 2607 Old 01-03-2014, 11:49 AM
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I had my 1st set replaced for this in july. The replacement which they claimed had "updated" parts got the spots too. Vizio said they are sending a brand new set. It was due to be delivered today but was postponed til Monday due to a snowstorm last night here so I will see how this does. Fortunately I purchased an extended warranty through them (Square Trade) since my 1 year is up on Feb 7.
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post #1732 of 2607 Old 01-03-2014, 01:36 PM
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Can someone recommend a good articulating mount for this?

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post #1733 of 2607 Old 01-06-2014, 08:27 AM
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I too am starting to notice the white spots, however, I only notice them on the bottom, when that portion of the screen is white, like in the main screen for my Xbox 360. I don't see them in any other circumstances. Is that how it is for the rest of you? I purchased the TV in February from Costco, so I have their extended coverage on it. I don't know the S/N offhand, but I can check, if that matters. I really haven't followed anyone's recommendation for settings, but would changing them have any effect, or is a defect in the LCD manufacturing process?

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post #1734 of 2607 Old 01-06-2014, 09:00 AM
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My 1st tv was purchased last Feb, & the replacement I got in july was hatched on the 25th week of last year which also got the spots. Yes mine were mostly on the bottom but I noticed the 1st set started getting more & more as time went on. I didn't wait with the last tv, when I noticed them In December I called Vizio right away. I just got the new (3rd set) replacement today. It looks perfect. This ones birthday was the 49th week of 2013 so I'll see soon if the problem has been fixed with these sets. Also the one tha just got replaced developed a couple white pixels together that formed a half inch line about 1 foot up on the left that I could see in most pictures,not just all white screens.
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post #1735 of 2607 Old 01-07-2014, 04:23 PM
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Just got done with Vizio support and am awaiting my 2nd replacment set. My initial purchase developed the bright white spots and a new replacement broke in with a bad bright spot in the center of the screen. Fingers crossed on this next set, and am really not thrilled with the current technology. Sounds like the new trend will be the pointless 4K sets rather than OLED which could actually make a big picture quality difference. Now a 4K OLED at 70" that would be the ticket, a very expensive ticket at that.
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post #1736 of 2607 Old 01-07-2014, 04:47 PM
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new replacement broke in with a bad bright spot in the center of the screen.

I'm not seeing it, I must be blind.

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post #1737 of 2607 Old 01-07-2014, 06:13 PM
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My 1st tv was purchased last Feb, & the replacement I got in july was hatched on the 25th week of last year which also got the spots. Yes mine were mostly on the bottom but I noticed the 1st set started getting more & more as time went on. I didn't wait with the last tv, when I noticed them In December I called Vizio right away. I just got the new (3rd set) replacement today. It looks perfect. This ones birthday was the 49th week of 2013 so I'll see soon if the problem has been fixed with these sets. Also the one tha just got replaced developed a couple white pixels together that formed a half inch line about 1 foot up on the left that I could see in most pictures,not just all white screens.[/quote how do you tell the born on date
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post #1738 of 2607 Old 01-07-2014, 06:15 PM
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Originally Posted by poop-dog View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by indept View Post

My 1st tv was purchased last Feb, & the replacement I got in july was hatched on the 25th week of last year which also got the spots. Yes mine were mostly on the bottom but I noticed the 1st set started getting more & more as time went on. I didn't wait with the last tv, when I noticed them In December I called Vizio right away. I just got the new (3rd set) replacement today. It looks perfect. This ones birthday was the 49th week of 2013 so I'll see soon if the problem has been fixed with these sets. Also the one tha just got replaced developed a couple white pixels together that formed a half inch line about 1 foot up on the left that I could see in most pictures,not just all white screens.
how do you tell the born on date?
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post #1739 of 2607 Old 01-07-2014, 06:48 PM
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Originally Posted by MrAdventure View Post

I too am starting to notice the white spots, however, I only notice them on the bottom, when that portion of the screen is white, like in the main screen for my Xbox 360. I don't see them in any other circumstances. Is that how it is for the rest of you? I purchased the TV in February from Costco, so I have their extended coverage on it. I don't know the S/N offhand, but I can check, if that matters. I really haven't followed anyone's recommendation for settings, but would changing them have any effect, or is a defect in the LCD manufacturing process?

Yes - this is exactly what I am seeing.

I can't see it from my viewing position - I am going to hold out for a bit and see if it gets worse. I have plenty of time on my warranty and would prefer they clear their current stock.

Anyone know if you can get the square trade warranty after you have already had the set 6 months?

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post #1740 of 2607 Old 01-07-2014, 08:56 PM
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Originally Posted by xnappo View Post

Yes - this is exactly what I am seeing.

I can't see it from my viewing position - I am going to hold out for a bit and see if it gets worse. I have plenty of time on my warranty and would prefer they clear their current stock.

Anyone know if you can get the square trade warranty after you have already had the set 6 months?

xnappo

Yes, go through Vizio for the warranty. they have a deal with square trade that you can get it anytime before the original warranty is up.
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