Vizio E701i-A3 Owners Thread - Page 78 - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #2311 of 2556 Old 05-24-2014, 10:30 AM
Member
 
seneschal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Southern California
Posts: 164
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 21 Post(s)
Liked: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by psklenar View Post

I've had this set since January or February 2013. This is my original set. It was professionally tuned by Gregg Loewen of LionAV. If there are spots, neither I nor my family or friends have noticed them. I love this set and have no concern recommending it to my friends.

As "iitywygms" writes, i've simply been enjoying it and haven't felt any need to poke my nose into the forums.

pat----

Have you tried the white screen test? Just curious if you have a good set, even if it doesn't bother you at all.
seneschal is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2312 of 2556 Old 05-24-2014, 11:37 AM
Senior Member
 
iitywygms's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: North Santa Rosa
Posts: 373
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by seneschal View Post

Have you tried the white screen test? Just curious if you have a good set, even if it doesn't bother you at all.

This kind of scrutiny is the very thing that I am curious about. What is a good set? He stated that he nor anyone else noticed any problems with it.
That makes it a good set for him right?
I can find all kinds of problems if I wanted to. Blacks not black enough, slight banding, etc. But why? Why dig until you find something that bothers you?
Enjoy the tv, if it does not make you happy move to another brand.
psklenar likes this.
iitywygms is offline  
post #2313 of 2556 Old 05-24-2014, 12:13 PM
AVS Special Member
 
xnappo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 2,674
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13 Post(s)
Liked: 49
Err - because there is a one year warranty and the problem gets worse?

xnappo
seneschal likes this.
xnappo is offline  
post #2314 of 2556 Old 05-24-2014, 12:23 PM
Member
 
seneschal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Southern California
Posts: 164
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 21 Post(s)
Liked: 15
Dude, chill out!
I'm just asking him to check to see if there are sets without this problem. At first we guessed that the Q sets fixed the problem, but obviously not.
All I know is I've had three sets with the same problems and I've seen two at Costco with the same problem, very blatant to any normal viewer.
Believe me, I would like to move to another brand but it appears Vizio won't refund me without going to the attorney general. I have a Vizio 47" that I'm perfectly happy with after four years of use but this one really disappointed me.
The Manna guy also said he saw this exact same problem on many of the Vizio returns he picked up. We're just trying to get to the bottom of it. I spent $1,900 on this TV and mounting it, and would like to get a working set.
Quote:
Originally Posted by iitywygms View Post

This kind of scrutiny is the very thing that I am curious about. What is a good set? He stated that he nor anyone else noticed any problems with it.
That makes it a good set for him right?
I can find all kinds of problems if I wanted to. Blacks not black enough, slight banding, etc. But why? Why dig until you find something that bothers you?
Enjoy the tv, if it does not make you happy move to another brand.
seneschal is offline  
post #2315 of 2556 Old 05-24-2014, 12:40 PM
Senior Member
 
iitywygms's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: North Santa Rosa
Posts: 373
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 14
Understood. Sorry if I came across wrong.
There are sets without significant problems, I have one.
I am just trying to shed some positive light on this tv.
I am fortunate that my set is working well for me. Hopefully you will get a satisfactory result soon.
psklenar likes this.
iitywygms is offline  
post #2316 of 2556 Old 05-24-2014, 12:50 PM
AVS Special Member
 
primetimeguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: St. Paul, MN
Posts: 3,732
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 93 Post(s)
Liked: 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by seneschal View Post

Dude, chill out!
I'm just asking him to check to see if there are sets without this problem. At first we guessed that the Q sets fixed the problem, but obviously not.
All I know is I've had three sets with the same problems and I've seen two at Costco with the same problem, very blatant to any normal viewer.
Believe me, I would like to move to another brand but it appears Vizio won't refund me without going to the attorney general. I have a Vizio 47" that I'm perfectly happy with after four years of use but this one really disappointed me.
The Manna guy also said he saw this problem on very frequently on Vizios, so we're just trying to get to the bottom of it. I spent $1,900 on this TV and would like to get a working set.
I'm with you, would be great if he could do a true test because I'm of the belief there isn't a set out there 6 months old that doesn't have the problem. But at the same time I don't want him to find out he has the issue since he is very happy with the set.
primetimeguy is offline  
post #2317 of 2556 Old 05-24-2014, 03:05 PM
Member
 
seneschal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Southern California
Posts: 164
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 21 Post(s)
Liked: 15
No problem, I'm happy your set is defect-free (so far). I would continue to run the white screen test periodically.
I'm glad I did because when I first got the third set I thought my troubles were over.
My fourth set is made in the 9th week of this year, six weeks after my third set, so maybe they've fixed it...
So far so good after 4 days
Quote:
Originally Posted by iitywygms View Post

Understood. Sorry if I came across wrong.
There are sets without significant problems, I have one.
I am just trying to shed some positive light on this tv.
I am fortunate that my set is working well for me. Hopefully you will get a satisfactory result soon.
seneschal is offline  
post #2318 of 2556 Old 05-24-2014, 03:08 PM
AVS Special Member
 
primetimeguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: St. Paul, MN
Posts: 3,732
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 93 Post(s)
Liked: 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by seneschal View Post

No problem, I'm glad your set is defect-free (so far). I would continue to run the white screen test periodically.
I'm glad I did because when I first got the third set I thought my troubles were over.
My fourth set is made in the 9th week of this year, six weeks after my third set, so maybe they've fixed it...
So far so good after 4 days

What was the soonest you noticed the issue on your other sets?  1-2 months?

primetimeguy is offline  
post #2319 of 2556 Old 05-24-2014, 03:16 PM
Member
 
seneschal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Southern California
Posts: 164
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 21 Post(s)
Liked: 15
I started noticing the bright spots on my first set after about 3 months, but I thought the screen was dirty.
But it wasn't until about 9 months the entire lower half of the screen was filled with them. That's when I came onto this forum and found the problem. At least 50-60 spots, then I run the white screen test as suggested by the tech and was amazed by the screen.
seneschal is offline  
post #2320 of 2556 Old 05-24-2014, 03:24 PM
AVS Special Member
 
primetimeguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: St. Paul, MN
Posts: 3,732
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 93 Post(s)
Liked: 134
Great, I have 4 months warranty left so should be able to know status of this panel by then.
primetimeguy is offline  
post #2321 of 2556 Old 05-24-2014, 03:48 PM
Member
 
Razman's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 41
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 16
I have had my Q set made in the 3rd week of this year for a week now. I have no spots and will be checking weekly due to my warranty is up and Vizio gives you 3 Months on a replacement. I am glad to hear some people have a good panel without this issue. My Sams Club and Best Buy all have white spot issue on this TV. I went to Wall Mart today and i checked the one on display and did not see any white spots. I still feel a large number of these panels are defective and my wife would have never noticed this issue until it was way out of warranty. I did purchase the Square Trade Warranty to use if needed. Fingers crossed, time will tell.
Razman is offline  
post #2322 of 2556 Old 05-24-2014, 05:31 PM
AVS Special Member
 
primetimeguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: St. Paul, MN
Posts: 3,732
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 93 Post(s)
Liked: 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by Razman View Post

I have had my Q set made in the 3rd week of this year for a week now. I have no spots and will be checking weekly due to my warranty is up and Vizio gives you 3 Months on a replacement. I am glad to hear some people have a good panel without this issue. My Sams Club and Best Buy all have white spot issue on this TV. I went to Wall Mart today and i checked the one on display and did not see any white spots. I still feel a large number of these panels are defective and my wife would have never noticed this issue until it was way out of warranty. I did purchase the Square Trade Warranty to use if needed. Fingers crossed, time will tell.

So you purchased the Square Trade warranty on your replacement?  What is new or refurb?  And what did the warranty cost?

primetimeguy is offline  
post #2323 of 2556 Old 05-24-2014, 05:37 PM
Senior Member
 
psklenar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Southern New England, USA
Posts: 286
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 15
I haven't done a "white screen" test since late fall, early winter and i *think* i may have seen one or two slight spots then. But it was very minor to my eyes. More importantly, after 15-16 months, neither I, my family nor my friends have noticed any visible issue (including when watching hockey because my 8yo nephew is an addict). I'll try to remember to get around to another white screen test when i have time, but since there's nothing visible during normal viewing situations and I'm out of warranty ... i'm not really all that concerned about it. Sorry to be a stick in the mud. frown.gif

pat----

pat----

psklenar is offline  
post #2324 of 2556 Old 05-24-2014, 06:16 PM
Senior Member
 
jjthenovice's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Antelope, CA
Posts: 280
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 14
I've had my "Q" replacement set since Jan 2014 and so far (knock on wood) no white spots. My old set had the white spot issue. It was no problem getting it replaced. I bought it from Costco and was in my second year of warranty when I noticed the problem.
jjthenovice is online now  
post #2325 of 2556 Old 05-25-2014, 07:43 AM
Member
 
Razman's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 41
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 16
I purchased the 3 year warranty for Square Trade through Vizio. It cost $89.00. They told me that they use the original TV model and serial number of the first one you purchased. I am on my second replacememt. They said Square Trade works closely with them and Vizio keeps a file on all replacements through warranty.
Razman is offline  
post #2326 of 2556 Old 06-01-2014, 10:34 AM
Member
 
Razman's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 41
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 16
I have a Q replacement and i noticed a couple of things i do not like in the new software. When in game mode if you change any picture settings it immediately swtches to a custom mode. This defeats the game mode and causing input lag. Game mode only works properly if you do not change any picture settings so you are stuck with the preset. The P software had a game mode setting instead of a preset. I also noticed when you go into picture settings and make a change the screen dims. Settings are changing maybe gamma i do not know. When you turn the TV off and on again it changes. If i go back into picture settings and make a change you will see the picture darken. I would like to know if anyone with a new Q set can verify these problems exist?

I did have one other issue. My cable box had to be set a to PCM instead of Dolby Surrond output due the audio cutting out with the only way to getting it back was turning the TV off. I have to change the cable box setting any time i want Dolby to my stereo through cable. All these issues are for the Q version only.

Please post if you having these problems.
Razman is offline  
post #2327 of 2556 Old 06-01-2014, 04:36 PM
Senior Member
 
jjthenovice's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Antelope, CA
Posts: 280
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 14
I have a Q set replacement. Does anyone with the Q set have their Amazon app working yet? This is getting ridiculous.
jjthenovice is online now  
post #2328 of 2556 Old 06-02-2014, 09:28 AM
Member
 
seneschal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Southern California
Posts: 164
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 21 Post(s)
Liked: 15
I have experienced your PCM problem below.
A better fix is not to switch the TV off, but just change the Input to another mode then back.
It's still painful though, so I just hook up my cable box using Component cables.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Razman View Post

I have a Q replacement and i noticed a couple of things i do not like in the new software. When in game mode if you change any picture settings it immediately swtches to a custom mode. This defeats the game mode and causing input lag. Game mode only works properly if you do not change any picture settings so you are stuck with the preset. The P software had a game mode setting instead of a preset. I also noticed when you go into picture settings and make a change the screen dims. Settings are changing maybe gamma i do not know. When you turn the TV off and on again it changes. If i go back into picture settings and make a change you will see the picture darken. I would like to know if anyone with a new Q set can verify these problems exist?

I did have one other issue. My cable box had to be set a to PCM instead of Dolby Surrond output due the audio cutting out with the only way to getting it back was turning the TV off. I have to change the cable box setting any time i want Dolby to my stereo through cable. All these issues are for the Q version only.

Please post if you having these problems.
seneschal is offline  
post #2329 of 2556 Old 06-03-2014, 09:32 PM
Advanced Member
 
indept's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Deptford,Nj.
Posts: 695
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by indept View Post

You jinxed me primetimeguy... eek.gif

I was watching hockey tonight & there was whitespot #1 on Tv #3 so my third in a row with spots. well I guess I will call squaretrade on this one. I will let you know how it goes.

well 3 weeks ago I posted the dredded white spots (post 2272) and I was certain they would spread quick as my other 2 tv's did BUT it's just the 1 pixel that I cannot see unless I'm closer than 3 feet. I have been watching a lot of tv so I will keep an eye out. If it remains just that 1 pixel, I won't worry about it since the TV is great otherwise.
indept is offline  
post #2330 of 2556 Old 06-03-2014, 11:28 PM
Member
 
CHRBRO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 20
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 11
My Q series got a firmware update today, no idea what may have changed yet.
CHRBRO is offline  
post #2331 of 2556 Old 06-04-2014, 09:41 AM
Member
 
seneschal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Southern California
Posts: 164
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 21 Post(s)
Liked: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by CHRBRO View Post

My Q series got a firmware update today, no idea what may have changed yet.

What's your new version number now?
seneschal is offline  
post #2332 of 2556 Old 06-04-2014, 06:04 PM
Member
 
CHRBRO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 20
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 11
v 1.34.23.0090
I don't subscribe to Amazon, but I can preview movies on it. Not sure if the Amazon app has been fixed for JJthenovice as I never tried on the old firmware.
CHRBRO is offline  
post #2333 of 2556 Old 06-06-2014, 09:45 AM
Member
 
seneschal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Southern California
Posts: 164
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 21 Post(s)
Liked: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by CHRBRO View Post

v 1.34.23.0090
I don't subscribe to Amazon, but I can preview movies on it. Not sure if the Amazon app has been fixed for JJthenovice as I never tried on the old firmware.

I checked and mine updated to the same version. I don't notice any difference so far, must be just the VIA apps/software.
seneschal is offline  
post #2334 of 2556 Old 06-06-2014, 07:25 PM
Member
 
kpiskin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 34
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 12
I watch a lot of movies and the one thing that is aggravating is that I cannot see the buttons on the remote. Does anyone know if the xrt510 works with our tv?
http://store.vizio.com/00111203030-1.html
kpiskin is offline  
post #2335 of 2556 Old 06-06-2014, 08:16 PM
Member
 
kpiskin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 34
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by seneschal View Post

I checked and mine updated to the same version. I don't notice any difference so far, must be just the VIA apps/software.
Yes it does add Amazon back. That's the only thing I can see fixed as of right now. I had to change my time zone back to the correct one. All my other tv settings seem to be unchanged.
kpiskin is offline  
post #2336 of 2556 Old 06-08-2014, 02:18 PM
Newbie
 
dlveazie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 4
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I'm new to this TV because my 60" LG plasma bricked during a FW update. Costco was great; it just so happened that it died 2 years to the day that I purchased it. It was Memorial day and the concierge service was closed. When I called the next day, the rep basically said "out of warranty is out of warranty". A couple hours later a manager called back and said they would accept it. I wound up getting $949 return credit and purchasing this set for $1479. The first thing I did was look for setting numbers online and came across this (very long) thread.

My SN is 15LFTRNXDQ01101 and FW is V1.30.20.0090 and I'll report any issues (I'm almost expecting them). I don't know how hard I'll look for them unless they become noticeable during normal viewing. But I'll certainly look before my 90 day Costco exchange is up. Sorry to hear about all the complaints about white spots here. I'm hoping against hope that I'll be one of the lucky ones. I agree with someone's thoughts of "only people who look and/or are bothered will complain in this type of forum". I'd guess that the problem is very widespread but only a select few will take the time and effort to let anyone else know.

I didn't plan on using any of the apps. My old TV wasn't smart but it's pretty hard to find a TV in this range that isn't smart anymore. The QWERTY remote would be so handy to switch between accounts. We have a Dish Hopper and a Sony Blu-ray and switching Pandora accounts on either unit is a PITA because they don't store user accounts or passwords so you have to navigate through an on-screen keyboard with the D-pad or T9 when you want to change accounts. But I don't think I can use the TV apps as a source until I find a way to connect the audio back my receiver. This TV says it supports ARC but I don't think my receiver does. ARC is new to me so that will give me something to play with for a few weeks.

My first impressions are great. I've had plasma for the last 4 years and was always happy with it (coming from rear projection). I've lost touch with TV tech over the last few years and was worried about soap opera effect (is n't that where the content looks "realer than real"?). I can see it a little bit but it's not as pronounced as I thought it would be. 3D isn't something that interests me at all, at least in its current state. I recently saw Godzilla in the theaters in 3D. It was the first 3D movie I had seen in ages and even in the theater it didn't impress me yet.

I've seen it asked a few times but I didn't see any answers about calibration numbers on the "Q" set with V1.* FW. I was very happy with the "Calibrated Dark" preset but my daughter liked the "Calibrated" preset. It seemed too bright to me at first but I think I'm getting used to it. I'll go back to "Calibrated Dark" if/when it becomes bothersome.

Best wishes to all with their complaints and I hope there is a resolution in the end. I've seen some owners on their 4th set or so. I can't imagine what it must be like to have to deal with that for so long and so often. In the name of all that is holy, please don't let this be me!

P.S. Regarding the V1.30.20.0090 FW, is there a way to force an update? I saw a V1.34* mentioned previously. I'm using a wired Ethernet connection and was expecting it to update overnight. At the same time, since I bricked my old TV forcing a FW update, I'm almost feeling like "if it ain't broke, don't fix it".
dlveazie is offline  
post #2337 of 2556 Old 06-08-2014, 06:09 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Bill Ball's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Alamo, CA
Posts: 1,268
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 70 Post(s)
Liked: 78
If calibrated is too "bright" just reduce the backlight setting. Good luck with the E701. Mine developed spots within the first month and as the 90-day return period loomed they got progressively worse and more numerous and the set went back to Costco for a refund. MAYBE by that time the 2014 model may be out. We're hoping it is free of the 2013 Sharp 70" panel problem.
Bill Ball is offline  
post #2338 of 2556 Old 06-09-2014, 09:58 AM
Member
 
rodneyber's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 33
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 10
i had a new update today for e601-a3 v1.34.23.0090. Did anyone else get this update or know what all was updated? i think my 601 has the same firmware as the 701 or some of the 701 models.

So far Ive noticed the Amazon app added (fixed) and the following also:

1)Wide has been added if you go to picture > Advanced setting. Then you see "Wide" was added right after film mode.

2) I also noticed that another option under picture settings was fixed. If you go from custom mode to other picture modes all of the setting (color, tint, etc.) changed accordingly rather going back to default picture mode settings when you switch from one picture mode to the next.

3) The last change I noticed is that I am now able to see the Users Manual on the TV. Before this would not appear.



There may be other thngs also that were added or fixed but this is all I see so far. I don't know why Vizeo
rodneyber is offline  
post #2339 of 2556 Old 06-09-2014, 07:10 PM
Member
 
Razman's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 41
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 16
So i got my 3rd replacement on May 16. I checked the screen today and found one dead pixel and about 4 white pixels. Vizio is full of crap, all of these screens are defective. I am out of warranty but they gave me a 90 day warranty on this set. I will be calling Vizio in the next week or two to request another replacement. How many sets do you think they will send me before they admit they screwed us all?. I will be checking into my states lemon law and filing a complaint with the BBB. Everyone had better check their screens before the warranty ends because the amount of white pixels will only multiply over time.mad.gif
Razman is offline  
post #2340 of 2556 Old 06-09-2014, 07:20 PM
AVS Special Member
 
primetimeguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: St. Paul, MN
Posts: 3,732
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 93 Post(s)
Liked: 134
Thanks for the update. I'm with you in that they are all defective. I'm still waiting for the new m series to come about and be reviewed to determine if I'll accept that for replacement or I just demand my money back. Let us know how your battle goes.
primetimeguy is offline  
Reply LCD Flat Panel Displays

Tags
Vizio , Lcd Hdtv , Vizio E550va 55 Inch Lcd Hdtv , Vizio E701i A3 Led Hdtv
Gear in this thread - E701i by PriceGrabber.com

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off