OFFICIAL SAMSUNG Auto Motion Plus Thread: Gimmick or Substance? - Page 2 - AVS Forum
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post #31 of 49 Old 03-13-2013, 08:32 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMWBig6 View Post

So last night I was watching different recorded programs and the NBC shows like The Office and Parks & Recreation seemed to look bad at default settings. Here is Samsung's description of each Auto Motion Plus setting:
I played with the different modes and Smooth looked the worst because it uses the least judder reduction (choppy movement where intermediate frames were visible). Clear was the best in terms of judder reduction (movement looked natural) but the picture was softest. Note that these problems were only noted on NBC programs. At the default Standard setting, programs on FOX, ABC, HBO, etc. look fine.

Has anybody tried a custom setting, with both high blur reduction and high judder reduction? Is there a reason Samsung programs the available modes in opposing ways (high blur and low judder or low blur and high judder, but not both at high)? I'm guessing I won't like the picture and it's a case of not being able to have my cake and eat it too.

good stuff....

all tv is 60 frames per second....try blurays @ 24fps and see how the setttings work.....

personally I keep on Clear..Other wise everything else looks like the Soap Opera Effect.....
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post #32 of 49 Old 03-14-2013, 06:16 PM
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What does it do exactly?
Leave it on or off?

> led motion plus
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post #33 of 49 Old 03-15-2013, 11:47 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by limitz View Post

What does it do exactly?
Leave it on or off?

> led motion plus

most people leave it off... I leave it off too.... It somehow contributes to the soap opera effect...when I get more details I will get back to you on that...
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post #34 of 49 Old 03-15-2013, 12:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMWBig6 View Post

So last night I was watching different recorded programs and the NBC shows like The Office and Parks & Recreation seemed to look bad at default settings. Here is Samsung's description of each Auto Motion Plus setting:
I played with the different modes and Smooth looked the worst because it uses the least judder reduction (choppy movement where intermediate frames were visible). Clear was the best in terms of judder reduction (movement looked natural) but the picture was softest. Note that these problems were only noted on NBC programs. At the default Standard setting, programs on FOX, ABC, HBO, etc. look fine.

Has anybody tried a custom setting, with both high blur reduction and high judder reduction? Is there a reason Samsung programs the available modes in opposing ways (high blur and low judder or low blur and high judder, but not both at high)? I'm guessing I won't like the picture and it's a case of not being able to have my cake and eat it too.

Motion Plus off is still the only way i can view it, I still get motion blur (slight) when set on clear despite recent FW updates improving this

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post #35 of 49 Old 04-17-2013, 09:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by limitz View Post

What does it do exactly?
Leave it on or off?

> led motion plus

It strobes the back lighting to help with retinal blur. It has absolutely nothing to do with the soap opera effect caused by AMP. Two totally different things.

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post #36 of 49 Old 04-30-2013, 11:43 PM
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How does Custom work with setting blur and judder reduction to your personal preferences? IOW what exactly happens?

What does blur actually do with an OTA 1920x1080 - 30i broadcast? How does it interpolate extra frames? I can see where you would create an extra frame that’s supposed to be between the 2 interlaced fields in order to create a 60p signal to be displayed on the panel. If AMP creates 6 additional frames per second where does it squeeze those in, & what happens when you vary the blur setting between 1 and 10?

Does the judder setting for film pertain to watching a 24fps film from Blu-ray or a film that's coming in over broadcast at either 1080i or 720p? What does setting 1 do vs setting 5 or 10? It's difficult to imagine that there are 10 different ways to handle this, yet something must be happening.

And education on these settings would be appreciated.
Thanks.
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post #37 of 49 Old 05-01-2013, 12:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMWBig6 View Post

So last night I was watching different recorded programs and the NBC shows like The Office and Parks & Recreation seemed to look bad at default settings. Here is Samsung's description of each Auto Motion Plus setting:
I played with the different modes and Smooth looked the worst because it uses the least judder reduction (choppy movement where intermediate frames were visible). Clear was the best in terms of judder reduction (movement looked natural) but the picture was softest. Note that these problems were only noted on NBC programs. At the default Standard setting, programs on FOX, ABC, HBO, etc. look fine.

Has anybody tried a custom setting, with both high blur reduction and high judder reduction? Is there a reason Samsung programs the available modes in opposing ways (high blur and low judder or low blur and high judder, but not both at high)? I'm guessing I won't like the picture and it's a case of not being able to have my cake and eat it too.

Good question.

With the new F8000, AMP seems worse than ever. With the ES7500 last year, I used to be able to set blur reduction to 10 and judder reduction to 0, and that would help eliminate motion blur without adding the soap opera effect through motion interpolation. Now that I'm giving the F8000 a shot after my ES7500 needed replacing, I can't use that custom setting any more. I get tons and tons of stuttering and dropped frames on all my HDTV content if I use that custom setting of blur=10 judder=0. I personally hate the soap opera effect other than a few exceptions. It ruins the look of film. Having the custom mode set as above also causes forced soap opera effect on some HDTV channels, even though judder is set to 0! That should not be happening. I get the feeling something is wrong this year with auto motion plus. It never worked great anyways - too much stuttering, but now custom is useless for me.
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post #38 of 49 Old 07-28-2013, 06:15 PM
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I have the 75es9000, I used the clear setting for everything to great effect without any artifacts to the picture. But when I updated the firmware recently, the clear setting has now chopped frames at the bottom of the screen whenever there is horizontal panning.
So it seems the firmware updates have an effect on picture quality after all, but in this case it was not improved but it made the picture actually worse than it was !
Samsung if you're reading this, please revert the clear setting to the way it was...
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post #39 of 49 Old 08-17-2013, 02:26 AM
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for TV, IPTV especially when displayed on your PC with TV being your monitor you know you have to match your country signal. If its PAL 50Hz use it to get ride of judder. Your settopbox sets this for your tv automatically also. All other stuff works with display being forced to 24Hz for internet downloaded movies or better yet use splash ex player on default 60Hz
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post #40 of 49 Old 02-26-2014, 09:14 PM
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sorry to bring this thread back to life, but i just need some clarification.....

I'm a big plasma fan and i need a new tv. problem is, the tv is going in a semi bright room and i missed out on the amazingly reviewed panisonic ST60 series of plasmas.

So, i have decided to go the route of an LED. I was looking at some samsungs ( UN50F6400, UN50F6300 or a UN50EH6000 ), however i am so fearfull of the issues that plauge LCD tv's.........in terms of the soap opera effect and motion blurring. I love watching sports, mostly hockey, which is fast paced. I am confused about the motion plus feature and the tv's 120hz abilities. If you turn off the motion plus, are you turning off the 120hz processors and viewing the programming at 60hz? Or are the two not connected like that? I know these are not super high end tv's, but for around $800-1000, i was thinking these were half way decent sets.

Thanks
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post #41 of 49 Old 02-26-2014, 11:41 PM
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Take a look at this thread,
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1511505/how-exactly-does-samsungs-clear-motion-rate-processor-work

The last thing Samsung told me was ""Clear Motion Rate cannot be turned off or cannot be set to a particular value. It only take the 3 factors into account (frame refresh rate, image processor speed and backlight technology) to measure how well an LED TV can depict fast moving images."

They also said:
"a) Auto motion plus and clear motion rate are not related to each other.
b) You can only turn on and off the auto motion plus option, there is no option to turn off clear motion rate."

If that's accurate then a Samsung with a CMR rating of 120Hz cannot be turned off & have the TV operate the panel at it's native 60Hz. And a 240 CMR rated Samsung has a 120Hz panel but again you cannot have it run at its native 120Hz because CMR cannot be turned off.

I suggest you look at the Samsung you're interested in & try a few different AMP settings. It seems the most popular are Clear, or Custom with (IIRC) the Blur at 10 & Judder at 0
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post #42 of 49 Old 03-02-2014, 08:18 AM
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Not sure how old this thread is but " clear " seems to be the only " auto motion " setting that seems to eliminate frame skipping or stuttering. Soap opera effect is relatively nill with this setting also.
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post #43 of 49 Old 03-02-2014, 09:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by david0406 View Post

Not sure how old this thread is but " clear " seems to be the only " auto motion " setting that seems to eliminate frame skipping or stuttering. Soap opera effect is relatively nill with this setting also.

Agree 100%. I have a UN60D6420 and no matter what custom setting I try, and I tried them all, Clear is the only setting that works, and yes, that includes Off as well. With Clear there can be a few artifacts on sports like golf, football and baseball (following the ball) but other than that, it is pretty much artifact free.

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post #44 of 49 Old 03-14-2014, 04:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nuopf View Post

sorry to bring this thread back to life, but i just need some clarification.....

I'm a big plasma fan and i need a new tv. problem is, the tv is going in a semi bright room and i missed out on the amazingly reviewed panisonic ST60 series of plasmas.

So, i have decided to go the route of an LED. I was looking at some samsungs ( UN50F6400, UN50F6300 or a UN50EH6000 ), however i am so fearfull of the issues that plauge LCD tv's.........in terms of the soap opera effect and motion blurring. I love watching sports, mostly hockey, which is fast paced. I am confused about the motion plus feature and the tv's 120hz abilities. If you turn off the motion plus, are you turning off the 120hz processors and viewing the programming at 60hz? Or are the two not connected like that? I know these are not super high end tv's, but for around $800-1000, i was thinking these were half way decent sets.

Thanks

I'm in a similar boat, having only had plasmas before, except for one brief -- and terrible -- experience with an edge-lit LED display from 2010. But now I'm shopping for LEDs because I want a large (70-80") panel.

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Agree 100%. I have a UN60D6420 and no matter what custom setting I try, and I tried them all, Clear is the only setting that works, and yes, that includes Off as well. With Clear there can be a few artifacts on sports like golf, football and baseball (following the ball) but other than that, it is pretty much artifact free.

That's really good to hear. Some of the panels I both like and can afford are still only 120Hz. At $3300, the Samsung 75F6400 is really pushing my max budget, but from what I can tell I'd probably like the Sammy's picture better than the similar-sized Sharps that are 240Hz. I just live in fear of motion judder and artifacting that I've seen on all too many friends' TVs, and I've been devouring threads like this one to give me an idea of how controllable it is.

One thing I haven't been able to tell for sure -- can the settings on these Samsungs be set so that 24p content actually plays at 24p without any interpolation, or whatever? I've seen conflicting answers to that question, or at least I haven't been able to understand the answers. I'm used to high framerate smoothness on TV broadcasts but I don't want it on my movies.
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post #45 of 49 Old 03-15-2014, 12:49 AM
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Originally Posted by D Bone View Post

Agree 100%. I have a UN60D6420 and no matter what custom setting I try, and I tried them all, Clear is the only setting that works, and yes, that includes Off as well. With Clear there can be a few artifacts on sports like golf, football and baseball (following the ball) but other than that, it is pretty much artifact free.

Normally I have AMP set to Clear which it seems a lot of folks do. However I was watching a program which had some model trains in it & they moved as if a strobe light was on them. Not smooth at all. I tried all the other AMP settings (Off, Smooth, Standard) and they all dramatically improved the way the trains looked. I could not tell any difference between these other settings but they all made a really big difference & smoothed out the train movement.

Another time when watching a program about earth there were some real nice scenes of something like the Grand Canyon & I tried settings other than Clear. Some, or maybe all, made the film or video content look more like you were there. IOW the soap opera effect gave a more live look to the picture. I'd have to try it again on similar content to see if I liked the look in this particular scenario.

What I'm suggesting is that it may be worth while trying different AMP settings depending on picture content.
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post #46 of 49 Old 03-22-2014, 12:31 AM
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I'm thinking Standard for regular TV viewing. Movies probably off, hoping that the blue ray/DVD signal is good enough. And gaming is a tough one because when you play first person shooters for instance, you don't want any lag or graphic degradation. So you leave it on so it looks good or you turn it off to decrease input lag? 

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post #47 of 49 Old 03-25-2014, 08:53 AM
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AMP = not a gimmick. I love it.

 

I try to forget the notions of interpolation and image "smoothing". It seems like what AMP is really trying to do is image stabilization.

 

If you ever have a very shaky video with an object as a center point, and you post it on Youtube, you get a image stablization post-processing option. And basically the effect takes all the shaking, wide sweeps and small judders, and tries to center it out.

 

That's what my Samsung TV is doing but at a micro level, and more subtle.

 

At its best, AMP renders a very life-like viewing experience, where the way human beings focus, move their eyebals, shift view due to changing head or neck positions, is closely emulated by the way the picture is processed through AMP.  This is the ideal, and it's what I target when I try to custom adjust the settings in AMP.

 

At its worst, AMP makes it so that people look like they are acting in front of green-screens half the time with computer generated environements. 

 

I tend to get the CG, green-screen effect in any pre-setting.

 

I prefer Blur Reduction at 4 and Judder Reduction at 4. 

 

Blur seems to control stabilizaion for objects moving left or right, and Judder seems to control stabilization for objects moving up and down. 

 

It's easier to see this when you have a particular short clip that you play over and over and over while tinkering with the settings. 

 

--

 

The downside is, with everything so life-like, half the time it feels like I'm on the set in front of the actors whenever I watch movies and TV shows. Try watching The Walking Dead with AMP on, it's like they are performing for you on stage. But I like that. 

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post #48 of 49 Old 03-25-2014, 09:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoapOperaEffect View Post

AMP = not a gimmick. I love it.

I try to forget the notions of interpolation and image "smoothing". It seems like what AMP is really trying to do is image stabilization.

If you ever have a very shaky video with an object as a center point, and you post it on Youtube, you get a image stablization post-processing option. And basically the effect takes all the shaking, wide sweeps and small judders, and tries to center it out.

That's what my Samsung TV is doing but at a micro level, and more subtle.

At its best, AMP renders a very life-like viewing experience, where the way human beings focus, move their eyebals, shift view due to changing head or neck positions, is closely emulated by the way the picture is processed through AMP.  This is the ideal, and it's what I target when I try to custom adjust the settings in AMP.

At its worst, AMP makes it so that people look like they are acting in front of green-screens half the time with computer generated environements. 

I tend to get the CG, green-screen effect in any pre-setting.

I prefer Blur Reduction at 4 and Judder Reduction at 4. 

Blur seems to control stabilizaion for objects moving left or right, and Judder seems to control stabilization for objects moving up and down. 

It's easier to see this when you have a particular short clip that you play over and over and over while tinkering with the settings. 

--

The downside is, with everything so life-like, half the time it feels like I'm on the set in front of the actors whenever I watch movies and TV shows. Try watching The Walking Dead with AMP on, it's like they are performing for you on stage. But I like that. 

To each their own. Try watching Modern Family on ABC with any setting other than clear.

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post #49 of 49 Old 04-07-2014, 09:37 PM
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I think everything off for me...

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