SHARP Motion Enhancement/Film Mode stuck on?!! - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 49 Old 12-12-2012, 07:35 AM - Thread Starter
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I am starting a thread for this as my model TV may not be the only one this has happened to.

I have the 70LE847U, I am quite happy with the TV outside of the fact that I can't seem to actually turn off the Motion Enhancement and Film Mode features even though they are both set to OFF.

The only mode which completely rids the soap opera effect is Game Mode, all other modes, whether both Motion Enhancement and Film Mode is turned off, on, different combinations etc, it always appears to be on.

Regardless of if its DVR, Set Top Streaming, Blu-Ray, in every other mode and INput on the TV except game mode it appears as if the TV is trying to be smart and turn on Motion Enhancment all by itself, some panning scenes appear to look un naturualy smooth as they pan, and then as the scene changes the TV kind of "Stutters' with video and all of the sudden its like Motion enhancement was just turned off., this happens constantly, and its really annoying.

It constantly "judders" if you will as it switches between looking smooth and back to normal 60HZ with all enhancements turned off, again the ONLY mode that completely 100% appears completely rid of the soap opera effects is Game Mode..

Actually to be quite hoenst its almost as if the TV is stuck in either Standard film mode/120HZ low, as if I turn those on, the picture still "studders" a bit with the motion enhcancement it just never looks like its turning itself off in certain scenese

This is driving me insane as I would love to get this calibrated sometime in the near future which well, game mode is quite limited in its calibration options.

I will somehow try and take video of it happening, though the only real video recording I have is my cell phone, doesnt have to look great, just hoping it will portray what I'm seeing.

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post #2 of 49 Old 12-12-2012, 11:31 AM
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Use Game mode, it disables all extra video processing and all you have to do is get over it's naming. I use Standard mode in my 60LE640U, work all right for me.
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post #3 of 49 Old 12-12-2012, 11:34 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gordon7 View Post

Try Game mode, it disables all extra video processing.


See my post wink.gif Game mode is the only one in which none of this happens. Though I do not like how crippled the picture settings are in game mode as I would like to get it calibrated when chad works his way in this area.

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post #4 of 49 Old 12-12-2012, 11:37 AM
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Game mode is not crippled in any way, you should have plenty of adjustments there to make you happy.
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post #5 of 49 Old 12-12-2012, 11:38 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gordon7 View Post

Game mode is not crippled in any way, you should have plenty of adjustments there to make you happy.


For a proper calibration, it is.

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post #6 of 49 Old 12-12-2012, 11:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shady195 View Post

For a proper calibration, it is.

I'd leave your last statement to the experts but you really need to ask yourself if you understand and really need a "proper calibration". Proper calibration does not necessary result a picture that looks better to a regular viewer's eyes then something you can do yourself with Disney WOW or AVS disk and then customize it to your liking. There is much more depends on source quality.
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post #7 of 49 Old 12-12-2012, 12:12 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gordon7 View Post

I'd leave your last statement to the experts but you really need to ask yourself if you understand and really need a "proper calibration". Proper calibration does not necessary result a picture that looks better to a regular viewer's eyes then something you can do yourself with Disney WOW or AVS disk and then customize it to your liking. There is much more depends on source quality.


Well considering I'm comming from a calibrated Plasma TV, Id say yes, I'd like this TV to have a proper calibration. Only so much one can do with brightness/contrast and the tint controls..

Luckily some of the basic settings here people have posted look decent, but I would really like someone to come in and properly calibrate the TV. The local shop around here no longer offers it, so I plan on having Chad come and take care of it on his next tour so I would really like to get this figured out


Just because someones posting for help and is not the one offering the wise advice, doesn't mean he's a nimrod and has no idea what he's talking about in regards to proper calibration VS throwing in a spears and munsil disc.

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post #8 of 49 Old 12-12-2012, 01:00 PM
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I didn't want to insult you in anyway. This is more about getting best bang for the buck in your viewing experience. If you're mainly planning to watch cable/satellite programming then professional calibration becomes a moot point and you'll be much better off by trying settings posted here for your TV and playing with them till you like what you view. Worst part about professional calibration that you can't see before you buy. Many people like to see a picture that is bright and vivid and professionally calibrated TV may not provide that being calibrated to be close to the studio monitor settings.
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post #9 of 49 Old 12-12-2012, 01:32 PM - Thread Starter
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Thats why its important to have someone that will try and do their best to keep it as accurate as possible while still taking into account your preference wink.gif

While my wife/daughter watch more OTA/Satellite content than I, I'm usually not sitting in front of it uneless I am catching a show or watching a Movie via high bitrate stream from my network storage or Blu-Ray player

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post #10 of 49 Old 12-12-2012, 01:42 PM
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Hi Shady195,

I posted in the 847 thread my current thoughts on your situation (and some months ago, the issue I dealt with and solved that I'll summarize here). (I agree with you that game mode is uncalibrateable).

I think you've got some processing mismatch/conflict going on. in my case FX on comcast was the channel that produced the worst jerkiness. occasionally I'd see in baseball games as the pitcher would be walking around the mound. I solved my issue by using a cable box that would allow fixing the output resolution (to 1080i, personal preference) and setting my switching AVR to "through" so that it did no processing. setting either the cable box or the AVR to output 1080p (eventhough the AVR has a much better upconversion chip than the display, go figure) would result in the jerkiness. 1080p on the display should have been a native scan rate so no processing should be required. But alas, it was annoying and very distracting.

If you're correct that film mode is stuck on, then the display is defective and should be replaced, but again the symptoms you're describing are not SOE, but some other video processing by the display...

Best,
jeff
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post #11 of 49 Old 12-12-2012, 02:25 PM
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Exact same issue occurs on my 640. Unfortunately, game mode is not a solution because that input is not available with the built in apps...Netflix, Vudu, Amazon and so on. I suspect this to be a rather universal issue with current Sharps but most folks simply don't notice it. It may end up being the reason I return my set if I can't resolve the issue.
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post #12 of 49 Old 12-12-2012, 02:41 PM
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could be, but I was able to resolve it on my 8470 - completely - and I was uber sensitive to it. In the past I described it as "judder", but it was not consistent and erratic.

If I couldn't have gotten rid of it, I'd have returned it... YMMV
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post #13 of 49 Old 12-12-2012, 04:48 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greeno View Post

Hi Shady195,
I posted in the 847 thread my current thoughts on your situation (and some months ago, the issue I dealt with and solved that I'll summarize here). (I agree with you that game mode is uncalibrateable).
I think you've got some processing mismatch/conflict going on. in my case FX on comcast was the channel that produced the worst jerkiness. occasionally I'd see in baseball games as the pitcher would be walking around the mound. I solved my issue by using a cable box that would allow fixing the output resolution (to 1080i, personal preference) and setting my switching AVR to "through" so that it did no processing. setting either the cable box or the AVR to output 1080p (eventhough the AVR has a much better upconversion chip than the display, go figure) would result in the jerkiness. 1080p on the display should have been a native scan rate so no processing should be required. But alas, it was annoying and very distracting.
If you're correct that film mode is stuck on, then the display is defective and should be replaced, but again the symptoms you're describing are not SOE, but some other video processing by the display...
Best,
jeff

Jeff, I gotta say thank you, I belive you just helped me narrow down my problem. My reciever doesn't really have a lot of HDMI options aside from the Control/ARC options. It's a pioneer VSX-521K. I turned ARC and the Control option both On and Off and tested. With it off it is noticeably better, though its still a problem, just less frequent and in shorter bursts.

Not sure what else to do as that is the only thing I can do, on or off, and while its off and better its still not 100%. Wondering if this means I will need to try a new receiver? Also confused as to why this problem is non existent in game mode.

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post #14 of 49 Old 12-12-2012, 05:16 PM - Thread Starter
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Okay so I lied, I decided to test it more, turning the HDMI control on my reciever on and off. It still does it, sometimes its really bad, sometimes its not so bad, its pretty random and does not appear to matter wether or not ARC and the like is turned on or Off

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post #15 of 49 Old 12-12-2012, 05:32 PM - Thread Starter
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I also just tried plugging devices directly into the tv along with a brand new HDMI cable with no luck either..

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post #16 of 49 Old 12-12-2012, 07:17 PM
 
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I can get the apps on my Sharp to display in Game mode, but takes some trickery, like playing a disc through HDMI in Game Mode then starting an app- forget exactly how I did it, been without the apps for a month now anyways since the firmware screwed up and Sharp is taking their time fixing it.

What really annoys me is it only lets you set the picture settings one way for all inputs, and expects you to put one input on another 'mode' if you need that to be different.
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post #17 of 49 Old 12-13-2012, 06:40 AM
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shady, I'd start a ticket with sharp. no one else has an issue that sounds like what you've got, or at least similar, that could be defeated by some standard method.

Best,
jeff
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post #18 of 49 Old 12-13-2012, 08:21 AM - Thread Starter
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Yea, I was going to call them last night but did not have the time.

Normally I'd just say I'd swap the set out, but shipping this one back and waiting weeks for another one just doesn't jive with me.


I got into the service menu but say no clear reset option that I was ready to test and possibly brick the TV. I'll give them a call and see what they say, I was hoping maybe there was some firmware update im not aware of but even on tehir site it appears theres been no firmware updates?

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post #19 of 49 Old 12-13-2012, 09:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shady195 View Post

Okay so I lied, I decided to test it more, turning the HDMI control on my reciever on and off. It still does it, sometimes its really bad, sometimes its not so bad, its pretty random and does not appear to matter wether or not ARC and the like is turned on or Off

I think this is a case where you're gonna have to run hdmi cables directly to the display. make sure ARC and aquos link control are off, on the display. (I'm assuming you've already got all video processing off like motion enhancement and film mode set to off. Also note that with ARC off, this will mean you need to run an optical cable from the display to the AVR to get streaming audio to play. to get DD/bitstream through the display, go to system options->terminal setting->audio setup->bitstream)

to make this easy, you should record to your dvr some content that shows the issue really bad. then you can just play it and observe.

if you contact sharp, this is probably what they'll have you do to start.
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post #20 of 49 Old 12-13-2012, 10:30 AM - Thread Starter
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As stated under that, I did try again directly playing Content directly from my Set top box and blu ray player, both still showing the issue, I did also turn off aquos link or whatever its called as well..

I think it may be a problem with the processing in the TV itself, we'll see what sharp says.

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post #21 of 49 Old 12-24-2012, 08:14 PM
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FWIW, I have an LC-70C745OU and my TV just started to exhibit the same symptoms (It's 3 mos old with very little hours on it as it's in a 2nd home). I found your post doing a search. I'm very sensitive to the issue and I guess I'll be calling Sharp too. It would be great if you updated this thread if you come up with a solution outside of replacement.
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post #22 of 49 Old 12-26-2012, 01:44 AM
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Shady, the 640U is not exactly your top of the line TV out there. So some of the issues you are describing are simply the shortcomings of the model, as it's by no means perfect. I have one too and have seen the same motion enhancement issue in all settings but the GAME mode. Accordingly I did some calibrating in the game mode, and was able to get a very good picture and have no complaints currently. Below are the settings I use on my 640U, which are the closest thing to the picture I get on my calibrated Panasonic VT50 plasma, which is the reference TV for all pro calibrators - practically the best picture money can buy today. I bought the Sharp 640U for gaming and any content that plasma might be sensitive to due to potential image retention (basically don't want to abuse the Panny which I use for BluRay and whenever I want the absolute top picture quality). So I used Calman calibration patterns and then checked the settings with various content too. I compared the color accuracy and all settings directly to the Panasonic VT50 as the reference. I must say, I was surprised how remarkably close to the VT50 I was able to get, to the point that the color accuracy was practically identical.

As I mentioned in the other 640U thread, of course these settings may look somewhat different from set to set like with any TV and may require minor tweaks to one's personal liking, but I believe they should be a good starting point if you want to try to utilize the GAME mode and have a great picture...Hope this helps you somewhat...

AV MODE: GAME
OPC: Off
Backlight: STD
Contrast: +30
Brightness: +2
Color: -2
Tint: 0
Sharpness: 0

--Advanced sub-menu

C.M.S. -Hue
R: -5
Y: -2
G: +4
C: -5
B: -10
M: +3

C.M.S. -Saturation
R: -12
Y: -2
G: -20
C: 0
B: -12
M: -11

C.M.S. -Value
R: -4
Y: 0
G: -2
C: 0
B: +3
M: +3

Color Temp: Low
R Gain (LO): 0
G Gain (LO): +3
B Gain (LO): -7
R Gain (HI): -5
G Gain (HI): 0
B Gain (HI): -6

Motion Enhancement: [grayed out]
Active Contrast: Off
Gamma Adjustment: +2
Black Level: [grayed out]
Film Mode: [grayed out]
Digital Noise Reduction: Off
Monochrome: Off
Range of OPC: [any]
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post #23 of 49 Old 12-26-2012, 05:32 AM - Thread Starter
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^^ I have an 847U and not a 640

Also, it seems the issue has gone away after a hard reset and sim fiddling around. Its still present on my DVR, but gone everywhere else.. Though im having a few other issues with the TV now that has me a case with sharp.

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post #24 of 49 Old 12-26-2012, 11:09 AM
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Ooops, for some reason I was under impression it was a 640U thread, lol. As mentioned, I noticed the same situation re. motion enhancement on my 640U, so I guess it's a common thing on Sharp sets... Anyway, hope you get all the issues resolved and good luck smile.gif

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post #25 of 49 Old 12-27-2012, 09:50 AM
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Thank you Z-Mad for the settings. Shady195, would you mind being more specific as to what exactly is a "hard reset and sim fiddling around"? I would be most grateful.

PS The manual states that Game mode and PC mode both circumvent Motion Enhancement and Film mode, at least on my model it does.
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post #26 of 49 Old 01-13-2013, 09:37 AM
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Guys, this is a great thread and helped me find the solution for this. I purchased the 70" last weekend (640U) and was also experiencing the stutter/judder, especially when watching sports, which of course is/was extremely annoying! I also knew, as some of you pointed out, after not noticing the issue when the TV was in game mode, that it had to have something due to the motion enhancement or film mode, since this is the only known mode the TV disables these settings. After running numerous tests/setups, I've found with 99% certainty (with the help of greeno's post above) that this stutter/judder only occurs when passing a source of 60 fps to the TV, so essentially 720p. My initial setup was for my DirecTV receiver to pass the native resolution to the TV, so when watching ESPN, which is 720p, I was always experiencing the issue. So, when I set the receiver to only pass 1080i to the TV, the stutter is completely gone! I verified this by recording a program that I saw the stutter in when passing native resolution, and then re-watching those same parts of the game with the DirecTV receiver passing 1080i. The reason I don't think it happens for everything being passed with a "progressive" resolution is because when watching a blu-ray passed as 1080p/24 (fps), there is no stutter/judder at all similar to what I was seeing with 720p/60, so I believe it is only sources passed with 60 fps. Obviously, I would love to know why I just can't pass 720p straight to the TV without the stutter, but always passing 1080i is an acceptable solution for this to me. Hopefully there will be a firmware update in the future that will fix this.

FYI, I'm in movie mode, with motion resolution set at 120Hz high and film mode off. Hope this helps y'all out!
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post #27 of 49 Old 01-14-2013, 08:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jpk411 View Post

Guys, this is a great thread and helped me find the solution for this. I purchased the 70" last weekend (640U) and was also experiencing the stutter/judder, especially when watching sports, which of course is/was extremely annoying! I also knew, as some of you pointed out, after not noticing the issue when the TV was in game mode, that it had to have something due to the motion enhancement or film mode, since this is the only known mode the TV disables these settings. After running numerous tests/setups, I've found with 99% certainty (with the help of greeno's post above) that this stutter/judder only occurs when passing a source of 60 fps to the TV, so essentially 720p. My initial setup was for my DirecTV receiver to pass the native resolution to the TV, so when watching ESPN, which is 720p, I was always experiencing the issue. So, when I set the receiver to only pass 1080i to the TV, the stutter is completely gone! I verified this by recording a program that I saw the stutter in when passing native resolution, and then re-watching those same parts of the game with the DirecTV receiver passing 1080i. The reason I don't think it happens for everything being passed with a "progressive" resolution is because when watching a blu-ray passed as 1080p/24 (fps), there is no stutter/judder at all similar to what I was seeing with 720p/60, so I believe it is only sources passed with 60 fps. Obviously, I would love to know why I just can't pass 720p straight to the TV without the stutter, but always passing 1080i is an acceptable solution for this to me. Hopefully there will be a firmware update in the future that will fix this.

FYI, I'm in movie mode, with motion resolution set at 120Hz high and film mode off. Hope this helps y'all out!

I'm glad my info helped you. I verified I have my cable box set to output 1080i and my AVR (onkyo 696 passes it through unchanged). I didn't play with changing it to 720p and looking for issues. 1080i passed through is perfect, running TV in movie mode, calibrated using display3 and calman 4/5.

Best,
jeff
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post #28 of 49 Old 01-14-2013, 09:56 AM
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That sounds about right and why I ended up returning my TV. (60 inch 847u)

I run my HTPC in 1080p 60fps, watch Fox a lot (which broadcasts OTA at 720p and I don't use a converter box so I can't force a resolution) AND I played a lot of PS3 games at 720p... I would use Game mode for a lot of the games but RPG games and some other slower ones I wouldn't use Game mode because I wanted accurate gamma and colors.

Anyway... being forced to use Game mode for everything was pretty terrible...

Hopefully Sharp will fix this in a future update or next year as that is a glaring oversight on their behalf. (Not being able to turn off Film mode or SOE when feeding a 60fps source unless you use Game mode.)

Current HT setup:

Samsung UN65F6300 65" LCD HDTV, Polk CS20 Center, 2x Polk Monitor 75T Fronts, 2x Polk TSI300 Backs, Polk PSW110 Subwoofer.

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post #29 of 49 Old 01-14-2013, 01:09 PM
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I believe that feeding 1080i solve my and others issues. However, I never have issues when playing blu-ray. I've not checked by I assumed my player would send 1080p to the set. Is that also 60fps? (just notice sodaboy you're in concord. I'm in Livermore). How best to check?
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post #30 of 49 Old 01-14-2013, 01:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greeno View Post

I've not checked by I assumed my player would send 1080p to the set. Is that also 60fps? ( How best to check?

I don't think sending 1080i is a solution at all. (ESPECIALLY if you're converting content like Sports which airs at 720p/60fps) More like a workaround. If content comes in at 720p or 1080p, you should be sending that to the set... The idea of creating interlaced content from a progressive source so that your progressive display can deinterlace it to be shown properly is just... well.. silly. A progressive display should get the progressive source without any conversions beforehand.

When you convert 60fps progressive material, like Sports, to interlaced, you're going to lose some of the data going from 60 frames per second to 60 fields per second.

Anyway, about your other question, I think it depends on your player and it's configuration.

Blu-Ray players usually have an option to output 24fps or 60fps (Do any players send 30fps as opposed to 60fps when 24fps isn't selected?)

Anyway, you could probably confirm in your player's menus somewhere...

Current HT setup:

Samsung UN65F6300 65" LCD HDTV, Polk CS20 Center, 2x Polk Monitor 75T Fronts, 2x Polk TSI300 Backs, Polk PSW110 Subwoofer.

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