Official Sony 84-inch 4K Bravia XBR-84X900 - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 140 Old 12-20-2012, 03:58 PM - Thread Starter
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Talk about the new Sony 84-inch 4K Bravia XBR-84X900
Bought it. Want to buy it. Or discuss the performance
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post #2 of 140 Old 12-24-2012, 10:29 AM
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Yeah, I bought it for myself for Christmas.

OK, not really, but I've seen it at Sony Store in Manhattan on Madison Ave.

It does have its own room but that room is in the furthest corner of the basement level.

Picture quality in 4K is amazing, there is no other way to put it (I have seen only 2D material). The source for 4K content is some kind of hard drive based server. And here is the thing: upon close examination I strongly suspect the video is uncompressed - it looked like EACH PIXEL was different on scenes with high detail level, no compression artifacts at all no matter how close I looked. That is you will never get this kind of quality from any commercially available source (let's ignore for the sake of conversation that AFAIK presently there are NO 4K sources at all commercially available - when/if they become available I doubt they will provide uncompressed video).

God that Taylor Swift music video was annoying!!! It was like... so whatever...

So after enjoying that music video and other 4K material I asked sales person to put a Blu-Ray disc on. What a disappointment!!! The disc was "Tron: Legacy" (2010). I personally didn't care about this movie at all, haven't even seen it before. I don't know if disc mastering was not very good, but picture quality was just awful comparing to 4K material (OK, maybe somewhere between awful and mediocre but closer to awful). The part of the movie I saw was mostly dark, so lack of shadow details may have contributed to it. The best way to describe it is it looked like badly mastered DVD comparing to well mastered Blu-Ray disc. 2 main problems I noticed immediately were general lack of details (like when compression ration is too high) and pixel crawl (or is it called mosquito noise? the last time I've seen it was I think on VHS tapes). On this disc there was also a trailer from the latest Pirate of Caribbean movie (the one with vicious mermaids) and even though it looked a bit better is still experienced the same problems.

Later I had a chance to see the same Blu-Ray disc on "regular" 60" Sony TV (I think it was EX line) and it looked perfectly fine. Not the best picture I've ever seen but nothing to complain about.

So for me a conclusion is that for me 2K Blu-Ray is not sufficient for this TV when built-in upscaler is used. And even for 4K source a lot will depend on compression level (again, I suspect 4K material that I saw there was uncompressed).
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post #3 of 140 Old 12-24-2012, 10:43 AM - Thread Starter
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New information

Sony 84″ 4K TV Owners To Be Loaned Ultra HD Video Player With 10 Movies


Sony 84″ 4K TV owners to be loaned Ultra HD Video Player with 10 movies
Sony has just unveiled a new 4K Ultra HD Video Player to go alongside its latest flagship 84-inch 4K televisions, although the Japanese firm says that it won’t be giving the device away for free (not exactly anyway).
Sony said earlier they would ship some kind of free 4K content via a PC-based media server in a story 10 days ago
Sony has made the unusual move of loaning the media players to its customers instead.

Sony says that the ultra high-def media server will come pre-loaded with no less than ten, full-length feature films delivered in native 4K, and they won’t be some bunch of random old classics everybody’s seen a dozen times already either
They include a number of recent action blockbusters
The Amazing Spiderman,
Total Recall (the 2012 remake),
Battle Los Angeles
Salt.
Bad Teacher,
That’s My Boy
The Other Guys,
The Karate Kid,
The Bridge on the River Kwai
Taxi Driver.
Also included in the package are some bonus ‘video shorts’, including four acoustic songs from Filthy Empire,
and The Athlete Machine: Red Bull Kluge.
Sony adds that its Ultra HD hard-disk server is capable of receiving further 4K movie and video uploads, so presumably the company is planning to release more ultra high-definition content in the coming months.

Additional this just received

Sony is including a Sony Xperia™ Tablet S that serves as a remote control through an easy-to-use app is now included in the package
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post #4 of 140 Old 12-24-2012, 12:29 PM
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Originally Posted by thestewman View Post

New information
Sony 84″ 4K TV Owners To Be Loaned Ultra HD Video Player With 10 Movies
Sony 84″ 4K TV owners to be loaned Ultra HD Video Player with 10 movies
Sony has just unveiled a new 4K Ultra HD Video Player to go alongside its latest flagship 84-inch 4K televisions, although the Japanese firm says that it won’t be giving the device away for free (not exactly anyway).
Sony said earlier they would ship some kind of free 4K content via a PC-based media server in a story 10 days ago
Sony has made the unusual move of loaning the media players to its customers instead.
Sony says that the ultra high-def media server will come pre-loaded with no less than ten, full-length feature films delivered in native 4K, and they won’t be some bunch of random old classics everybody’s seen a dozen times already either
They include a number of recent action blockbusters
The Amazing Spiderman,
Total Recall (the 2012 remake),
Battle Los Angeles
Salt.
Bad Teacher,
That’s My Boy
The Other Guys,
The Karate Kid,
The Bridge on the River Kwai
Taxi Driver.
Also included in the package are some bonus ‘video shorts’, including four acoustic songs from Filthy Empire,
and The Athlete Machine: Red Bull Kluge.
Sony adds that its Ultra HD hard-disk server is capable of receiving further 4K movie and video uploads, so presumably the company is planning to release more ultra high-definition content in the coming months.
Additional this just received
Sony is including a Sony Xperia™ Tablet S that serves as a remote control through an easy-to-use app is now included in the package

Does anyone know what is meant by "native 4k" content in this context. Seems to me that old movies like Karate Kid and Bridge on the River Kwai would not have been 4k material unless Sony or someone took the original master film and remastered it in 4k. Anyone???
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post #5 of 140 Old 12-29-2012, 08:21 AM
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Does anyone know what is meant by "native 4k" content in this context. Seems to me that old movies like Karate Kid and Bridge on the River Kwai would not have been 4k material unless Sony or someone took the original master film and remastered it in 4k. Anyone???

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bridge_on_the_River_Kwai#Restorations
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post #6 of 140 Old 12-29-2012, 09:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ordo View Post

Does anyone know what is meant by "native 4k" content in this context. Seems to me that old movies like Karate Kid and Bridge on the River Kwai would not have been 4k material unless Sony or someone took the original master film and remastered it in 4k. Anyone???

All of those movies are native 4K. Karate Kid is the 2010 version and River Kwai was given a 4K transfer some time ago when released for the BD - same as Taxi Driver.

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post #7 of 140 Old 12-30-2012, 05:09 PM
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Originally Posted by DavidHir View Post

All of those movies are native 4K. Karate Kid is the 2010 version and River Kwai was given a 4K transfer some time ago when released for the BD - same as Taxi Driver.

Does the "native" 4k transfers you refer to mean that they have gotten a hold of the original film or are they simply using some sort of upconverting software fro a DVD to make it 4k? Sorry for my lack of knowledge but am very confused about how these films end up in "native 4k" an exactly what that means...
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post #8 of 140 Old 12-30-2012, 06:38 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ordo View Post

Does the "native" 4k transfers you refer to mean that they have gotten a hold of the original film or are they simply using some sort of upconverting software fro a DVD to make it 4k? Sorry for my lack of knowledge but am very confused about how these films end up in "native 4k" an exactly what that means...

Sony or one of it associated companies scanned the original negatives in 4k
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post #9 of 140 Old 12-31-2012, 11:37 AM
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Damn. I saw the title of this thread and thought we had an official owner. Still waiting for an owner of the LG or Sony to show up. On a side note, I wonder why there is such a discrepancy in reported impacted of 4K. You have some professional sites that have done reviews of both the LG and its twin the Sony, and claimed it is the best picture they have every seen and the difference is amazing. Then you more reserved reviews that say, yes there is a difference but no where near the jump from SD to HD. Then you have people that have seen the Sony demo from this forum who are above the average joes and know what to look for, and again the impact varies greatly. I guess it might be the limited source material or people's eyesight. It just might not register with some people. You know how many times I come into my living room to find my wife or daughters watching a program in SD, when they could be watching in HD. I ask them why they are not watching it in HD and they say they didn't notice.
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post #10 of 140 Old 01-01-2013, 08:36 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by sytech View Post

Damn. I saw the title of this thread and thought we had an official owner. Still waiting for an owner of the LG or Sony to show up. On a side note, I wonder why there is such a discrepancy in reported impacted of 4K. You have some professional sites that have done reviews of both the LG and its twin the Sony, and claimed it is the best picture they have every seen and the difference is amazing. Then you more reserved reviews that say, yes there is a difference but no where near the jump from SD to HD. Then you have people that have seen the Sony demo from this forum who are above the average joes and know what to look for, and again the impact varies greatly. I guess it might be the limited source material or people's eyesight. It just might not register with some people. You know how many times I come into my living room to find my wife or daughters watching a program in SD, when they could be watching in HD. I ask them why they are not watching it in HD and they say they didn't notice.

And what makes you think we do not have an official owner ?
Of course there is a small hitch. There has been no official delivery to any retail purchasers of the Sony unit yet.
And, with the announcement from Samsung and from Westinghouse of an 110" unit I am not pushing for delivery until I see all the sets operating.
For this kind of investment I do not want buyers remorse
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post #11 of 140 Old 01-01-2013, 06:44 PM
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To the best of my knowledge, the Sony uses the LG panel and they have sold maybe 100 84" 4K LG units in California.
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post #12 of 140 Old 01-11-2013, 12:30 PM
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Looks like this unit is available in select Best Buy stores soon:

http://www.magnoliaav.com/Brands/SONY
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post #13 of 140 Old 01-13-2013, 02:13 PM
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Spent an hour watching the set in NYC at Sony today. 4K content is truly remarkable. But I agree with the poster above, regular BD content is "okay" not great, but was very dependent upon the material. The 3D experience was great with the passive glasses (very watchable for me, I can't watch active 3D b/c I get headaches very quickly. The brightness differential between glasses on and off was also very minor compared to active which has a drastic loss of brightness (both on our VW90ES projector and our LG 3d TV's). It's BD 1080p performance IMO was far better than the Sharp 90" I've seen, which was FULL of motion artifacts and bordering on unwatchable. So while the performance is more acceptable IMO on 1080 material, it's difficult to justify at this price point. I'd sooner put in an excellent larger projection system on top of our current TV for less $. Quite remarkable 4k though.... something to look forward to when content becomes available.

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post #14 of 140 Old 01-25-2013, 04:38 AM
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Just saw it here in Japan @ Sony. Kicker is with the yen to dollar exchange rate I saw an instant $6,000 dollars off retail. Tempting maybe.
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post #15 of 140 Old 01-25-2013, 07:25 AM
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The only real comparison would be to get a BR version of the 4k movie and watch both from a normal viewing distance.

For me, I'd want to see Salt from 12ft away in 4k and BR and then see how much of a quality difference there is.

I don't care about pixel differences 6 inches away.
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post #16 of 140 Old 01-30-2013, 01:24 PM
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The only real comparison would be to get a BR version of the 4k movie and watch both from a normal viewing distance.

For me, I'd want to see Salt from 12ft away in 4k and BR and then see how much of a quality difference there is.

I don't care about pixel differences 6 inches away.

Had occasion to see the 84 inch 4k sets from both lg and sony. (not next to each other but nearby stores) Tried to remember one from the other (black levels, contrast, color, etc.) and truthfully could not find much of a difference between the two. (other then the price of lg was 16x and sony 25x) Sony seen at a sony store and was told by the salesman that he had heard that from several customers and he was going over to see the lg for himself. Admitted that he would have a difficult time selling the sony if I was correct.

Also, did notice that the pictures on both sets were great especially at 6-7 feet away. Remarkable quality in all of the above mentioned categories. (especially impressed with the 3d-best I have seen anywhere) That said however, sitting 12-13 feet away the sets now seemed only to be on par with the very good 1080p sets showing 1080p sources. (for some reason however, the 3d looked much better regardless of distance)
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post #17 of 140 Old 01-30-2013, 02:08 PM
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Had occasion to see the 84 inch 4k sets from both lg and sony. (not next to each other but nearby stores) Tried to remember one from the other (black levels, contrast, color, etc.) and truthfully could not find much of a difference between the two. (other then the price of lg was 16x and sony 25x) Sony seen at a sony store and was told by the salesman that he had heard that from several customers and he was going over to see the lg for himself. Admitted that he would have a difficult time selling the sony if I was correct.

Also, did notice that the pictures on both sets were great especially at 6-7 feet away. Remarkable quality in all of the above mentioned categories. (especially impressed with the 3d-best I have seen anywhere) That said however, sitting 12-13 feet away the sets now seemed only to be on par with the very good 1080p sets showing 1080p sources. (for some reason however, the 3d looked much better regardless of distance)

couldn't agree more on the 3D. I've been haunted by this since I spent time with the TV. The passive 3D experience off of blu rays is reeeeeally good and the resolution looks far higher that 1080p TVs. No expert on this but assuming that the frame split is full resolution for each eye versus a split of resolution (plenty of folks here would know that answer).

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post #18 of 140 Old 01-31-2013, 05:14 PM
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couldn't agree more on the 3D. I've been haunted by this since I spent time with the TV. The passive 3D experience off of blu rays is reeeeeally good and the resolution looks far higher that 1080p TVs. No expert on this but assuming that the frame split is full resolution for each eye versus a split of resolution (plenty of folks here would know that answer).

Understand that passive 3d gives you half resolution per eye. Thus on a 4k set you would get 2k per eye effectively doubling anything that active can get. Right?

Also, anyone have concluded what I did on the loss of the impressive picture quality on 4k sets (when up close to the set) when sitting 13 feet away?
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post #19 of 140 Old 02-12-2013, 05:19 PM
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I just saw this set at the Boca Towne Centre Mall, and was completely blown away by the clarity, detail, and color fidelity of the image. Just absolutely incredible!
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post #20 of 140 Old 02-12-2013, 05:38 PM - Thread Starter
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I am hesitating on making the final purchase. I am having difficulty with the purchase because I cannot get a commitment from Sony that they will update the
hardware or firmware to handle the new h.265 codec that was approved. h.265 will be essential for streaming 4k when it is available.
No one wants a $25,000 white elephant that is outdated already.
I hope Sony visits this forum and will step up as I am ready to purchase except for this one thing.
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post #21 of 140 Old 02-12-2013, 05:44 PM
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Just saw the set at best buy in Dallas .... Oh my gosh - best pic i have ever seen. I had planned on getting an f8000 or zt60 this year, but now im thinking about waiting another year or so and going the uhd route..
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post #22 of 140 Old 02-13-2013, 07:11 AM
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Just got to see the Sony 4K set last night at BB in Brooklyn Park MN. They were the only ones that had it. I have to say it was beautiful not only the style but PQ as well. But the price? No thanks. Is 4K my next tv in the future? I really dont know because I honestly didnt see that much of a PQ difference between 4K and 1080p. It may just be my eyes I dont know but its how I feel. But kudos to Sony because it is a very very nice tv.
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post #23 of 140 Old 03-17-2013, 07:08 AM
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post #24 of 140 Old 05-21-2013, 08:44 AM
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Thanks for the review. I saw one here in the Sony Store in Aventura, near Miami and am definitely going to get it. It just blows my mind. I currently have 60" Pioneer Plasma 6070 model TV that is just about six years old, so I think it's time for an upgrade. I'm looking forward to having it. Hopefully the Heat continue winning, and I'll have it in time for the NBA Finals.

Thanks for your help to everyone in the forum for all the comments.
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post #25 of 140 Old 05-21-2013, 07:29 PM
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I saw this tv at Sony store in Vegas, and it was love at first site. Kudos Sony
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post #26 of 140 Old 05-22-2013, 10:23 AM
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I worked on one of these last week. Here is a link to my review of it. http://homecinemaguru.com/?p=3655

Hi Jeff,

Very good review. Did you get a chance to do the 84" LG?

JM
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post #27 of 140 Old 05-23-2013, 06:32 AM
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post #28 of 140 Old 05-23-2013, 08:28 AM
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I am hesitating on making the final purchase. I am having difficulty with the purchase because I cannot get a commitment from Sony that they will update the
hardware or firmware to handle the new h.265 codec that was approved. h.265 will be essential for streaming 4k when it is available.
No one wants a $25,000 white elephant that is outdated already.
I hope Sony visits this forum and will step up as I am ready to purchase except for this one thing.

Remember our experience with the Qualia! There is a report on the LG 84" owners site that in a telecon with a Sony tech, Sony intends to discontinue the 84" after they have sold 200. You well know their track record for product support. Incidentally, the Sony 4K brochure I picked up at the local Sony store when I went to look at the 84" 4K set touts "triluminos" color with a wider color range for the 55" and 65" 4K sets, but not the 84". This says to me that the LG (and Sony) 84" panel is still 8-bit color.

I'm still using the 60" XBR set Sony sent to me after my third OB failure in the 70" Qualia, because I vowed to stop being an early adopter. I think the time is rapidly coming for a sweet spot where a big $ set makes sense, though. What I am looking for is 4K, HDMI 2.0 (for 4K 60fps), 10-bit color, and H.265 . I use a TV entirely for watching programs on DirecTV (I have a Sim2 3-chip FP for Blu-ray). At the Sony store, they have an excellent setup with a touch panel changing between native 4K demo material, Blu-ray, 3-D, and DirecTV. The native 4K was stunning. Didn't see enough difference in the up converted 1080p Blu-ray to warrant a purchase. On the other hand, there was a significant difference with the up converted 1080i DirecTV. My wife has refused to consider any of the current 80"+ 1080p sets because DirecTV just looks too soft to her. Me too, and I lay it to the large pixels. The up converted 1080i DirecTV picture looked as sharp on the 84" panel as it does on a 50" 1080p panel. She was all in, but now I'm saying hold on. I'm pretty sure that the next generation of 4K sets due in 8 months, or so, will have the hardware for HDMI 2.0 and H.265. H.265 will be required to get broadcast 4K, and it won't take any more bandwidth than current 1080i, so I don't see a big impediment to adoption by DirecTV or Netflix, for instance. But it requires hardware changes and an H.264 set is not firmware upgradable to H.265.

The LG 84" (whose panel Sony uses) is currently streeting for considerably less than the Sony. Sony puts on the dumbo ear speakers, which I would take off to use my own 7.1 setup, and uses it's own up conversion board (which reportedly has much less calibration potential than the LG set). So, all in all, my experience with Sony's NON product support says walk past this one!
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post #29 of 140 Old 05-23-2013, 05:11 PM
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Another report from the LG 84" thread: LG has stopped production of the 84" set. Reports that the edge lighting technique is causing banding, that LG is working on a fix for this, and that all extant sets will be retrofitted. So, stopping production until a fix is worked out is the right thing to do. Big contrast to Sony's approach to their OB failure issue.
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post #30 of 140 Old 05-23-2013, 07:06 PM
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Quote:
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Another report from the LG 84" thread: LG has stopped production of the 84" set. Reports that the edge lighting technique is causing banding, that LG is working on a fix for this, and that all extant sets will be retrofitted. So, stopping production until a fix is worked out is the right thing to do. Big contrast to Sony's approach to their OB failure issue.

How is it a big contrast to Sony's approach? Unless you meant Sony's approach is better? Sony gave you a 60 inch XBR - in my opinion, this is a far better approach than a promise to *fix banding sometime*.
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Sony 4k Xbr 84x900 , Sony , Blu Ray Movies , Tron Legacy Two Disc Blu Ray Dvd Combo
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