65" ES8000 Darkness Issue - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 8 Old 12-24-2012, 01:39 PM - Thread Starter
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I just self calibrated my 65" Samsung using Calman 5, and the picture looks great on bright scenes (Gamma adjusted to 2.2, dead on from 10-100 IRE, while setting gray scale-Gamma set at 0 in Movie mode).
My issue comes from scenes that should not be very dark-with my calibrated settings, these scenes are almost too dark to watch, and bright scenes like CNN, etc, look great. Its almost like the TV is adjusting itself to get darker. I realize D65 is supposed to be darker overall (I had a Pioneer plasma that was professionally calibrated, and there is no comparison of the darkness levels on shows like NCIS, Blue Bloods, and Starz movies- the Samsung is way darker than the Pioneer-too dark to watch)
I have Eco mode off, Dynamic Contrast off, and Black Tone off.
My settings are as follows:
Movie
15
95
46
16
45
50/50
Color Space Red 57 0 0 Green 3 50 10 Blue 0 0 50 Yellow 52 50 9 Cyan 0 50 50
Magenta 54 8 50
White Balance R-o 24 R-g 26
G-o 21 G-g 24
B-o 16 B-g 1
10p WB
1 -1 0 3
2 thru 10 0 0 0

Gamma 0
Warm2
As stated, these values gave me a very straight, even gamma measured at 2.21 by Calman.
As stated, shows like CNN, and outdoor scenes look awesome, with great color. Interior scenes look very, very dark, with little detail.

Any ideas?

Wayne
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post #2 of 8 Old 12-24-2012, 02:06 PM
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The issue you are running into is called auto CE dimming. This can tend to crush blacks on properly calibrated sets. There is a workaround posted in the main UNXXES8000 thread, which I admit is a bear to get through.

See this post:

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1399319/official-samsung-unxxes8000-owners-thread/3480#post_22385782

Scroll down to the counteract CE dimming settings. Basically, you tweak the white balance sub menu then bump up the brightness to compensate, which tricks the set into no longer auto dimming

edit: Also make sure you have dynamic contrast set to off, as this will crush blacks.

My ES8000 settings, calibrated with an i1D3 and calman:
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post #3 of 8 Old 12-24-2012, 02:12 PM - Thread Starter
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So if I lower the offsets by maybe 6 points, I can get rid of these ridiculously dark scenes? Can I still calibrate after lowering these values and raising the brightness? Why does Samsung do this to an other wise remarkable television?
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post #4 of 8 Old 12-24-2012, 02:27 PM - Thread Starter
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I also just read where auto dimming is supposed to be disabled in Movie mode. Is this not correct? Starting to get a bit confused here. Will the dimming fix work on my issue? I would like to know for sure before recalibrating everything.

Thanks
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post #5 of 8 Old 12-24-2012, 02:38 PM
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It is confusing. There are two separate "features."

CE Dimming: You cannot disable this feature in any setting. This is when the set automatically turns down the brightness during dark scenes to minimize flashlighting and clouding that some sets have. You can bypass it as above

Microdimming plus: This is a misnomer that actually has nothing to do with dimming the set. It does some "active scanning" voodoo to tweak the contrast but does not do any actual hardware dimming. Most of us think it is fake and not a real impact on picture. It is on by default in all modes but movie mode, which it is inactive.

See this post: http://www.avsforum.com/t/1399319/official-samsung-unxxes8000-owners-thread/7620#post_22681768

Micro Dimming
"By maximizing the contrast between lights and darks, Samsung's Micro Dimming technology displays a picture that is as true-to-life as possible. Our innovative technology scans zones across the image and adjusts brightness to deliver deeper dark tones and brighter whites. It also eliminates the "halo" effect and image distortion that can happen with diffused lights. The Ultimate version of this technology optimizes the quality to new heights by scanning 2x the number of zones in the image. The result is a crystal-clear picture with realistic, vivid detail and accurate color reproduction."
http://www.samsung.com/us/video/tvs/UN55ES8000FXZA-features
"Ever watch a movie and find it’s hard to see an object in the background? Micro Dimming Ultimate analyzes each frame of video in hundreds of areas to optimize the LED backlight and video signal for each frame in real time. By increasing brightness in the areas of the frame that are too dark to see, an overall 20% increase in brightness is achieved and finally you can make out that zombie lurking in the dark! Along with an overall brighter picture, Micro Dimming Ultimate will also produce more vibrant and richer colors."
http://www.samsung.com/ca/consumer/tv-video/tv/led/UN55ES8000FXZC-features
Supposedly Micro Dimming Ultimate in the 8000s has 600 zones, which is double the zones that Micro Dimming Pro has in the 7500s. This feature is on by default in all modes except Movie mode. You can't turn it on in Movie mode.

CE Dimming
There is very little information on this technology, but here's what it does. During a dark scene, the panel will automatically dim itself to give you deeper blacks and less apparent clouding. The reason we refer to it as CE Dimming is because it is in the service menu named that way. There were past TVs that you could turn it on or off from the service menu, but you can't on the ES TVs. It is on by default on all modes except Movie mode and the profession calibrator's modes, Cal-Day and Cal-Night. Some people don't mind or notice it, while it drives other people crazy. It appears that it may be more obvious on the ES7500 series than on the ES8000 series though this isn't confirmed. Because of this, some of us think that it is somehow tied to the Micro Dimming zones. You will most likely notice it during credits in a movie, or perhaps a movie with a lot of star fields. It is also very evident in the very dark movies of the Harry Potter series, but hard to tell because the whole movie is darker. What you'll realize is that you have to bump your backlight up more to see the film correctly. Why? Because the whole film has been dimmed. The reason it drives some crazy is because of the following. Say you watch a lot of science fiction. The scene cuts to a star field and you see the stars dim over a couple of seconds. Then a ship or planet comes into view and you then see the screen brighten. It can be distracting. There is a way to diminish or possibly even disable this "feature" though. It reacts to a threshold set by the Brightness setting. The higher you have Brightness, the less CE Dimming comes into effect. The problem is that your panel is now hazy and not calibrated with a higher Brightness setting. This can then be offset by turning down each of the White Balance Offsets, R, G & B accordingly. If you turn Brightness up by 7 points, turn down each White Balance Offset by 7 points.

My ES8000 settings, calibrated with an i1D3 and calman:
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post #6 of 8 Old 12-24-2012, 02:51 PM - Thread Starter
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If CE dimming is off in movie mode, as I have seen in the literature, Why is my television so dark in dark scenes. This is what I cannot understand. Something is obviously going on in darker scenes in Movie mode. I had the front panel replaced due to vertical banding, and is it possible they somehow activated dimming when they replaced it?
In the mean time, I have filed a service request (again) for banding in the replacement panel, and this too dark thing going on in less lightened scenes. Is there a lemon law for televisions? Just about had enough of the Samsung quality, and seriously thinking of raising the issue with Samsung that I would like my money back. Two issues, really three with the banded replacement panel, since August.
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post #7 of 8 Old 12-25-2012, 04:21 PM
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My ES8000 is plenty bright in dark scenes, most of my efforts in calibrating mine is to get blacks a tad darker !! Have you reset your picture settings to make sure some of the junk settings are turned off ? The first place to start is to make sure both your Bluray player and panel have their HDMI Black Level settings set to NORMAL. I'd also turn off things like dynamic contrast.
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post #8 of 8 Old 12-25-2012, 07:25 PM - Thread Starter
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Everything I can find is set to off ECO, dynamic contrast, black tone). This is just something that has really started in the last two weeks. A complete reset seemed to improve this slightly, but dark scenes are too dark-even my wife is complaining about it. It's like something is telling the TV to be darker on scenes that normally would be darker, but certainly not this dark. I have cable, and there is a brightness variation on different channels, but the two other televisions I have (1 a 4 year old Samsung and 1 a 6 year old Pioneer Plasma) do not show this variation of brightness to the same degree on channels, and both sets tuned to the same channel as the Samsung are not nearly as dark as the ES8000.
My biggest fear is nothing is going to happen with either problem during the service evaluation. I don't have a great deal of faith that the right thing will be done.
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