Samsung F8000 -- 2013 Flagship Models - Page 100 - AVS Forum
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post #2971 of 3717 Old 05-03-2013, 11:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Tarheel1400 View Post

it really stinks from a consumer standpoint because it used to be if you were willing to shell out a little extra cash you could get something that was really high quality and avoid some of the issues that others Electronics had nowadays that doesn't seem to be the case. That seems to apply to appliances as well. It seems that the manufacturers are so focused on the bottom line that they lose sight on creating a great product.

I totally agree. Regardless of what you want to spend, it doesn't matter - all of these sets have issues, regardless of what you spend on them.

I would have thought that a budget of $2,000 for a tv would be enough to get one hell of a nice tv. And in many ways it did. But it's so full of stupid bugs and issues and disappointments that it feels more like a $600 set the way it behaves.
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post #2972 of 3717 Old 05-03-2013, 11:37 PM
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Originally Posted by eagle_2 View Post

Well, it's too big for me because bigger panel=more expensive. I've hit the absolute top of what I can spend with this set. I prefer quality over size, so I went with the F8000 hoping for the best quality I could get. Sony is just too expensive for me, especially when their smallest panel is over 50"

With what we just learned, maybe the 7100 is a better choice and you could get the larger panel for about the same price.

I've pre-ordered the 75" f8000 from Robert at VE, but I'm going to wait to hear reports on the 7100. I'd like to hear about the difference withe AMP settings between the two series as well.

I don't need cameras, Gaming, sign language, smart features, web browsing or any other crap. Just a decent picture without glaring issues. And no processing gimmicks that create more issues than they solve.

Let's see what we can find out about the difference between these two.

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post #2973 of 3717 Old 05-03-2013, 11:40 PM
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Also, all I want to do is watch NTSC Blurays, and
tv through my Dish Network DVR.

Any owners out there have any issues with Dish, like stuttering or SOE?

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post #2974 of 3717 Old 05-03-2013, 11:56 PM
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Originally Posted by moonhawk View Post

With what we just learned, maybe the 7100 is a better choice and you could get the larger panel for about the same price.

I've pre-ordered the 75" f8000 from Robert at VE, but I'm going to wait to hear reports on the 7100. I'd like to hear about the difference withe AMP settings between the two series as well.

I don't need cameras, Gaming, sign language, smart features, web browsing or any other crap. Just a decent picture without glaring issues. And no processing gimmicks that create more issues than they solve.

Let's see what we can find out about the difference between these two.

The one thing that's keeping me leaning towards the 8000 and not a step-down model is the SMART LED setting - at least I have control over that with the F8000. From what I understand, that setting isn't available on the other models. Or is it? If not, then I have no control over the micro-dimming.

I wouldn't be so worried if I knew we could count on Samsung to fix some of the issues like AMP and game mode, and maybe add the multi-settings in Cinema Black like the 7100. But Samsung doesn't have a glowing record when it comes to fixing issues and improving their features in updates (unless we're counting support for Angry Birds).
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post #2975 of 3717 Old 05-04-2013, 12:02 AM
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Originally Posted by eagle_2 View Post

Well, it's too big for me because bigger panel=more expensive. I've hit the absolute top of what I can spend with this set. I prefer quality over size, so I went with the F8000 hoping for the best quality I could get. Sony is just too expensive for me, especially when their smallest panel is over 50".

I do have a quite small apartment. 46" looks pretty big in my living room. Of course for a larger room this would be considered to be on the small side.

Eagle I'm with you. I've blown my original "set" budget out of the water. I've almost doubled it and I'm still not very happy.
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post #2976 of 3717 Old 05-04-2013, 12:04 AM
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Eagle,

Have you heard any feedback on the Sony LED's. I wonder If I can swing the budget If I'd be happier with the build quality and settings.
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post #2977 of 3717 Old 05-04-2013, 12:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Tarheel1400 View Post

Eagle,

Have you heard any feedback on the Sony LED's. I wonder If I can swing the budget If I'd be happier with the build quality and settings.

Nope, I don't know too much about the Sony sets. I did consider last year's 850 I think it was for a short time before I went with the F8000. The interface of the 850 just looked so old and dated, I couldn't do it. And I couldn't see any real descent demo material on it because most stores already had them removed from their shelves and sent back to Sony in prep for their new models.

I was sure tempted by the gorilla glass though. I can't believe Samsung hasn't come out with something like that by now for their panels. It's so scary how easy it is to shatter these panels. There's a video on Youtube of some guys throwing remotes hard at a Sony set with gorilla glass, and it took like 6 or 7 remotes before one cracked the screen. It was nuts. I think if I hit my car keys up against the F8000 panel while I walked by it the panel would probably crack.
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post #2978 of 3717 Old 05-04-2013, 12:40 AM
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Originally Posted by eagle_2 View Post

Nope, I don't know too much about the Sony sets. I did consider last year's 850 I think it was for a short time before I went with the F8000. The interface of the 850 just looked so old and dated, I couldn't do it. And I couldn't see any real descent demo material on it because most stores already had them removed from their shelves and sent back to Sony in prep for their new models.

I was sure tempted by the gorilla glass though. I can't believe Samsung hasn't come out with something like that by now for their panels. It's so scary how easy it is to shatter these panels. There's a video on Youtube of some guys throwing remotes hard at a Sony set with gorilla glass, and it took like 6 or 7 remotes before one cracked the screen. It was nuts. I think if I hit my car keys up against the F8000 panel while I walked by it the panel would probably crack.

Eagle,

I don't think the new Sony set has Gorilla glass. It doesn't mention anything about it on their website.
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post #2979 of 3717 Old 05-04-2013, 01:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Tarheel1400 View Post

Eagle,

I don't think the new Sony set has Gorilla glass. It doesn't mention anything about it on their website.

Yeah, I'm thinking the same thing. I think I read a while back they were dropping it this year. I'm seriously starting to believe that every year the sets actually get worse instead of better. I guess we should hurry up and make a decision and settle for a 2013 set, since 2014 will only be worse.
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post #2980 of 3717 Old 05-04-2013, 01:23 AM
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Eagle,

Why aren't you considering a Plasma?
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post #2981 of 3717 Old 05-04-2013, 02:57 AM
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Oh, well then that would explain then why that wasn't mentioned. wink.gif

So does that mean the the EU version has the micro-dimming enabled, but there's just no control over it, since there's no SMART LED setting? Kind of like the F7500 in the US? Or does the EU version not even have micro-dimming at all? If it still has the same type of dimming active, just no control for it, then I would think the effects would have shown up during testing at one point or another.

I have my TV set to movie mode and cinema black on low. With these settings I don't see any dimming effects. I do see brightness fluctuations with standard mode and/or cinema black on medium or high (not only the black bars but the total image is influenced). That's why I think the EU cinema black is more related to the US Smart LED than to the US cinema black setting.

So with standard we have no control over dimming and in movie mode we have, but with the cinema black setting.

Well I'm very happy with my F8000 under my viewing conditions and with real life content. CinemaScope bars that aren't pitch black doesn't bother me as much as the clouding of my former ES8000 or the bad colors of the Philips 8007, I owned before that.
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post #2982 of 3717 Old 05-04-2013, 04:39 AM
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Originally Posted by eagle_2 View Post

I was sure tempted by the gorilla glass though. I can't believe Samsung hasn't come out with something like that by now for their panels. It's so scary how easy it is to shatter these panels. There's a video on Youtube of some guys throwing remotes hard at a Sony set with gorilla glass, and it took like 6 or 7 remotes before one cracked the screen. It was nuts.
Quote:

Yea, i been thinking the same thing, i have punched out a few HDTV's & "MAYBE" with like gorilla glas 5 or what ever SUPER DUPER version of it might have saved the TV.
Oh well, seems like that added expense isn't used this yr BUT i would like if i could buy it from a 3rd party cause WHO KNOWS, maybe the 2014 models will be sooo damn good i double TKO the ES8000 as an excuse to get that model.

SEK-2000/ZA....Any GOOD ?
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post #2983 of 3717 Old 05-04-2013, 05:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Tarheel1400 View Post

Eagle,

Why aren't you considering a Plasma?

I've already tried that route more than once in the past - although I thought the images from plasma had potential, there were things I wasn't happy with. For me personally, I think LCD has to be the way for me to go. I cannot spend my time worrying about IR (yes, I had IR with both Samsung and Panasonic plasmas), and dithering, brightness pops, and ABL issues were just as annoying as some of the LCD issues.
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post #2984 of 3717 Old 05-04-2013, 05:09 AM
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Originally Posted by RedGrant View Post

I have my TV set to movie mode and cinema black on low. With these settings I don't see any dimming effects. I do see brightness fluctuations with standard mode and/or cinema black on medium or high (not only the black bars but the total image is influenced). That's why I think the EU cinema black is more related to the US Smart LED than to the US cinema black setting.

So with standard we have no control over dimming and in movie mode we have, but with the cinema black setting.

Well I'm very happy with my F8000 under my viewing conditions and with real life content. CinemaScope bars that aren't pitch black doesn't bother me as much as the clouding of my former ES8000 or the bad colors of the Philips 8007, I owned before that.

I'll definitely agree that the clouding on my old set was the worst issue I was having by far. Dimming issues came in second for me though. I can definitely see the dimming effect quite easily with some content - currently I'm using Movie mode with SMART LED on Low and Cinema Black on (US owner here). It's the SMART LED that's causing the dimming issues, but I need it enabled if I want descent black levels. Cinema Black is causing some vignetting at the edges of the video image where it meets the bars, but it's not as noticeable as the dimming is at times. The dimming isn't always noticeable of course - mostly when a dark scene keeps going back and forth with a brighter scene, or something in the scene keeps changing the brightness level of the image. That's when you can see the dimming going back and forth.
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post #2985 of 3717 Old 05-04-2013, 06:42 AM
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"To be sure we have the Native mode with the Colour Space menu option tried instead of the default Auto setting. It occurs in cyan and yellow a hue shift to blue and red respectively. The native color space so let for what he is."

I believe this means they recommend leaving Color Space on Native, not Auto. I had it on Auto. I'll have to try out Native.

Native shuts off color processing and works best for 3D LUT production such as I do.. Auto does a very good job on the F8000. Custom is for calibrating and requires a meter and software. In all cases the signal then goes to the color decoder where the YCbCr 4:2:2 format is converted to RBG and sent to the panel for display.

If you don't calibrate, use Auto. No other mode will be as close to correct.

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post #2986 of 3717 Old 05-04-2013, 06:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Tarheel1400 View Post

BEn,
Once you got it all tuned in did the stutter/judder fade away in movies like Dark Knight and in sports? I'm considering swapping mt new vt60 plasma 55in for the f8000 however I know big screen led tvs or curswd when it comes to these type of issues. Especially with sports and high action movies.
Tarheel as far as The Dark Knight on Blu Ray I don't use any AMP. I have it set to off and I didn't notice any judder at all. So as far as movies off of Blu Ray it seems that it's good to go as long as you set AMP off, unless you like that soap opera effect. As for sports I was able to catch some playoff basketball again today and when I was watching that if you have AMP off you are going to see some minor blur here and there. I turned the AMP to clear and it seemed to clean it up nicely. I didn't like what the setting smooth did, it made it stutter. I would think smooth wouldn't do that but it did for me. I did also try using custom with blur 10 and judder 10 and that didn't seem to help with the stuttering. I did notice that if I turned judder down to 5 and left blur on 10 it seemed ok but to me clear setting is the best for sports. Your opinion might differ from mine.


If you are worried about it not being able to do fast action sports as far as I can tell at least for basketball with AMP on the clear settings it's fine for me. I assume that for football it should be the same. if anybody else wants to try to watch some sports on yours and test out the different AMP settings please do and let us know. Again as for fast action movies with AMP off I didn't notice any problems with the Blu Ray of The Dark Knight and with the movies I watched on cable or netflix.
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post #2987 of 3717 Old 05-04-2013, 07:12 AM
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Originally Posted by moonhawk View Post

With what we just learned, maybe the 7100 is a better choice and you could get the larger panel for about the same price.

I don't need cameras, Gaming, sign language, smart features, web browsing or any other crap. Just a decent picture without glaring issues. And no processing gimmicks that create more issues than they solve.

The F7100 has the camera control features, without the camera - attaching one is an option.

It also has the voice control and Smart Hub 2.0 features.
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post #2988 of 3717 Old 05-04-2013, 07:15 AM
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Originally Posted by RedGrant View Post

I have my TV set to movie mode and cinema black on low. With these settings I don't see any dimming effects. I do see brightness fluctuations with standard mode and/or cinema black on medium or high (not only the black bars but the total image is influenced). That's why I think the EU cinema black is more related to the US Smart LED than to the US cinema black setting.

So with standard we have no control over dimming and in movie mode we have, but with the cinema black setting.

+1, this describe how Cinema Black behaves on the U.S. 7100.
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post #2989 of 3717 Old 05-04-2013, 10:36 AM
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Originally Posted by buzzard767 View Post

Native shuts off color processing and works best for 3D LUT production such as I do.. Auto does a very good job on the F8000. Custom is for calibrating and requires a meter and software. In all cases the signal then goes to the color decoder where the YCbCr 4:2:2 format is converted to RBG and sent to the panel for display.

If you don't calibrate, use Auto. No other mode will be as close to correct.

Thank you for that information. I guess Auto is the way to go then.
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post #2990 of 3717 Old 05-04-2013, 02:15 PM
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Originally Posted by eagle_2 View Post

I bumped gamma down to -1 and re-adjusted the image slightly to the AVS and WOW discs. I still have the pink push with the white clipping patterns if I push the contrast up too high. The stars or bars turn very pinkish if contrast goes too high. Even if the stars or bars themselves aren't too pink, when I turn down the contrast, the white screen still has a tad bit of pink in it.

What color tone are you on?

Back off man, I'm a scientist.
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post #2991 of 3717 Old 05-04-2013, 02:24 PM
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Originally Posted by buzzard767 View Post

Native shuts off color processing and works best for 3D LUT production such as I do.. Auto does a very good job on the F8000. Custom is for calibrating and requires a meter and software. In all cases the signal then goes to the color decoder where the YCbCr 4:2:2 format is converted to RBG and sent to the panel for display.

If you don't calibrate, use Auto. No other mode will be as close to correct.

The 60ES8000 I had for about a week was way off on Auto, verified by my calibrator. Just saying, Auto isn't always best.

Back off man, I'm a scientist.
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post #2992 of 3717 Old 05-04-2013, 02:45 PM
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Originally Posted by sharkcohen View Post

The 60ES8000 I had for about a week was way off on Auto, verified by my calibrator. Just saying, Auto isn't always best.

This is 2013 and we're discussing the F8000. I verified early on in the F8000 owners thread that Auto is indeed very good.

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post #2993 of 3717 Old 05-04-2013, 03:12 PM
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See what happens when you don`t turn on a computer for a day and a half , I miss all the news !!! smile.gif

I see this thread has grown in the past 36 hours , well I`m sure we ALL have a lot to talk about , I know I do , but later.

So Eagle , you got your free tablet , good for you.

Of course I did not , so I am bum`n , exactly what can you do with that Galaxy tablet , other than viewing content on the Tab mirroring to F8000 ?
Can you control the F8000 with that thing !!!!! Is there an "app for that "  ( sorry )...

I like to eat ice cream sandwiches , not sure how they would taste with a tablet though !! LOL and how is android has opposed to IOS ?

OK _________ , since I have been away for only a day and a half , I have a ton of e-mail to trash !!

You guy`s keep me up - dated , ok ! biggrin.gif

Later smile.gif

Gary 
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post #2994 of 3717 Old 05-04-2013, 04:16 PM
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Well I went into the same Best Buy tonight I originally bought the F8000 from around 11 days ago. I had to get the set swapped anyways because of the dead pixel/s, so I asked if I could get the tablet. At first they said there shouldn't be a problem, but then remembered that they gave me the price match to Abe's because they were the same salespeople who helped me when I got the price match, so they weren't willing to give me the table too. They said it's wither the price match or the tablet. They said maybe if the price-match hadn't been so much - but it was too much for them to give me the tablet. I think my undoing was going to the same store again where they same guys would remember doing the price-match and clearing it through the manager. I think maybe if I tried a different store, maybe somebody else who hadn't gone through the price-match already with me might have done it perhaps. they told me it wasn't because I had already bought the set, but rather it was the rice match that prevented me from getting the tablet tonight.

From what I understand they only price-match once per purchase, and that's it. Tonight they were willing to give me the tablet until they remembered the price-match they gave me. Let us know how you make out if you try. I could still maybe try another store for the tablet since nothing has changed really, but I don't know if it's worth the bother. I know somebody who the tablet would make a great gift for later this year.

Eagle, and update is in order!

I went in first showed receipt brough up the fact that I was a premier silver member and I noticed tehy had a sale on the tv I bought a few weeks ago and I wanted the bundle---the free tablet. They had difficulty finding it in system but verified it with the home theater department. Then they had trouble bundling it. While they were figuring it out, I decided..why not, lets see if I can't get them to pricematch again. I told them that the store they price matched for me earlier lowered their price again and asked for a price match. I showed them the current price($2075) and they did. This was my 2nd time back getting the price lowered.

So I received both price match and tablet.
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post #2995 of 3717 Old 05-04-2013, 06:27 PM
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I just got back from Frys and Best buy where I spent quite a bit of time looking at TVs including the F8000 and F100. Here's my thoughts:

-Samsung F8000: This was my first time seeing the TV in real life. Unfortunately, it was wall mounted so I couldn't check out the Arc stand. The TV looked great even though it was running off of Best Buys crapy feed. The blacks looked great, though I'm sure it won't be quite as impressive in a darker room. What really impressed me was the colors. Most LEDs are either too washed out or too exaggerated. The F8000 had colors that were very similar to the plasma hanging next to it. The viewing angle was not very good, but it is much better than my current C6300. The uniformity was fantastic, however, when I stepped 3' to the side I could see a little flash lighting on the bottom left (this was only visible on dark scenes when viewing from a wide angle). Overall I think this is one of the best LEDs this year. Hanging directly below the F8000 was the F71000. The differences between the two were very noticeable. The blacks were lighter and the colors looked weird, especially skin tones. These TVs were both in store mode so I'm sure the F7100 will look better in regular conditions.

I was also able to check out the new Sony XBR-65X900A UHD TV. The first thing that caught me off guard was how light the black levels are. I understand that this is an edge lit TV so it won't have blacks like the HX950, but for $6000, you'd think it would perform better. However, besides the blacks, the TV looked fantastic. Sony triluminous tech works wonders for color, without exaggerating it. The jump from 1080p to UHD was not as impressive as I thought it would be. It's not like seeing a retina display for the first time. You will really only see a difference if you are looking at the TV from less than 4' away, which is not comfortable for a 65" TV. However, I can defiantly see why this tech would be useful on TVs 84" and larger.
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post #2996 of 3717 Old 05-04-2013, 07:34 PM
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+1, this describe how Cinema Black behaves on the U.S. 7100.

How is the 7100 for bleeding, banding, flashlighting, or clouding?

What size do you have?

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post #2997 of 3717 Old 05-04-2013, 07:52 PM
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How is the 7100 for bleeding, banding, flashlighting, or clouding?

What size do you have?

Bleeding (flashlighing) is Minimal - Shows more in 3D.

Banding - Zero in normal viewing, next to nonexistent in "test-like" material.

Zero Clouding - a first for Samsung.

I have the 46".
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post #2998 of 3717 Old 05-04-2013, 09:32 PM
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Originally Posted by PiratesCove View Post

Bleeding (flashlighing) is Minimal - Shows more in 3D.

Banding - Zero in normal viewing, next to nonexistent in "test-like" material.

Zero Clouding - a first for Samsung.

I have the 46".

Thanks--

I don't need all the fancy crap. If I can get the same PQ without it, that may be the way to go.

I'm waiting on the 75's, so I won't need to make up my mind for a while.

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post #2999 of 3717 Old 05-04-2013, 09:56 PM
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What color tone are you on?

I'm currently on Warm1. I've tried Warm2 also. Normal and Cool are definitely too blue for my liking. I'm using the newer settings posted by Buzzard currently - other than Warm 2, and the contrast dialed down a bit more because of this pinkish tint in the white clipping tests. Switching between Warm1 and Warm2 made no difference regarding the pinkish tint. I'm still unsure where I'm going to end up with color tone but it's likely Warm1 - personally I find Warm2 a tad bit warmer than I tend to like. I may give it another look though. I know it's supposed to deliver the most accurate color to how movies are mastered, but Hollywood so often uses such a warm palette and such saturated colors, sometimes it's a bit much for me. The skin tone test image on the Disney WOW disk looks pretty spectacular to me currently, so color seems to look great at the moment - in Movie mode I have the contrast at 86 - any higher turns the white clipping test pinkish.

Even before I put those settings in though, the set still had the pinkish tint in the clipping test.
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post #3000 of 3717 Old 05-04-2013, 10:12 PM
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See what happens when you don`t turn on a computer for a day and a half , I miss all the news !!! smile.gif

I see this thread has grown in the past 36 hours , well I`m sure we ALL have a lot to talk about , I know I do , but later.

So Eagle , you got your free tablet , good for you.

Of course I did not , so I am bum`n , exactly what can you do with that Galaxy tablet , other than viewing content on the Tab mirroring to F8000 ?
Can you control the F8000 with that thing !!!!! Is there an "app for that "  ( sorry )...

I like to eat ice cream sandwiches , not sure how they would taste with a tablet though !! LOL and how is android has opposed to IOS ?

OK _________ , since I have been away for only a day and a half , I have a ton of e-mail to trash !!

You guy`s keep me up - dated , ok ! biggrin.gif

Later smile.gif

Gary 

Hey there, good to hear from you.

Yeah, I lucked out and manged to get a tablet. Currently I'm keeping it sealed until I know for certain what I'm doing with the set in case it all needs to go back.

Right now I have a small 4" Android tablet - a cheap $50 one I bought around Christmas, and it has the same "Ice Cream Sandwich" OS that the Galaxy Tab 2 7.0 seems to have. I guess they name their versions on food (Jelly, Bean, etc.). I'll say my cheap tablet is pretty darn cool for what I do with it - go online wirelessly if I need to look something up while I'm out, or play some cool touch-screen games. Plays media nicely too. Not bad for $50, but a very low-res screen. I've seen the Galaxy Tab 2 in Best Buy, and it blows mine away. Way higher screen resolution, I guess it can shoot 720p video, 3mp camera, WIFI, plus I'm already familiar with Android a bit. I have no experience with IOS though. On the one hand I'd love to open it up and have fun with it. But I'm leaning towards giving it to my girlfriend's sister for Christmas - she has the same $50 tablet I do, and she loves playing games and junk on it. I know she would love this as an upgrade, and that would take care of my Christmas shopping for her this year which saves me money. I'll have to see. That's months away though and I should test to see if it's working at least before it can't be exchanged. I should have 60 days like the tv itself I believe being a Silver member.

You'll have to let us know how you're making out with the set. I'm still learning. I ordered the remote you linked to the other day - I bought it from a seller in Asia on Ebay - $10 and free shipping - looks like the seller sold over 300 of them so far and has great feedback, and when I bought my old Samsung QWERTY remote from an Asian seller everything went fine - it arrived brand new in the retail box.

As you can see I'm currently dealing with a pink tint issue and I'm hoping the replacement set next week won't have that problem. I want to call Samsung and report a couple issues (Game mode not improving lag, AMP custom stuttering and adding soap opera effect in 25.000fps video content and some HDTV channels), but I'm waiting until the replacement arrives because the first thing they're going to do is ask me for my serial number, so I'd rather give them the one for my new set, not the one that's going back.
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