Samsung F8000 -- 2013 Flagship Models - Page 19 - AVS Forum
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post #541 of 3705 Old 02-20-2013, 04:13 PM
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Correct..not manufacturing any. Moving them out to make room for,the new models. That's why I picked up a 950 over the weekend

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post #542 of 3705 Old 02-20-2013, 04:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Browninggold View Post

Correct..not manufacturing any. Moving them out to make room for,the new models. That's why I picked up a 950 over the weekend

The plan for the HX950 all along was to produce only a handful of sets, hence the end of the manufacturing run after only 4 months to ensure it keeps prices high through the entire product cycle. The HX950 replacement most likely wont be announced until September. It definitely wasn't stopped to make room for a replacement. I remember reading a business article somewhere detailing the massive losses the tv manufacturers are taking and Sony decided to try the make less sell for more strategy as a test run of sorts.
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post #543 of 3705 Old 02-20-2013, 04:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cleveland Plasma View Post

The 84" LG 84LM9600 says right on the front page and in thru the specs that the unit is "local Dimming" >>> Click Here ( This unit has a great "street" price by the way, amazing actually ), so that should make 3 local dimming units. Make that 5, I forgot about the 47 and 55 LG 9600.

--You are right, that is sad, that only 5 units being made today have local dimming.

Five? I thought we (not you or I) spent pages upon pages arguing about edge-lit "local dimming" and came to the conclusion that it is geometrically impossible for an edge-lit tv to also have local dimming. If that is still true, this LG 84LM9600 that is in fact edge-lit doesn't actually have local dimming, but rather a Samsung-esque artificial "micro-dimming". Seems only fair if Samsung's edge-lit set's can't claim to be local dimmers, LG's edge-lit sets can't either.

That leaves the smaller LG LM9600's, the Sony HX950, and the Elite 60X5FD. I was under the impression the Elite Pro and Sony HX were no longer being produced. (Yes, they're still purchaseable while supplies last, but no longer being manufactured.) Leaving only the smaller LG LM9600's as the last full-array, local-dimming model still being manufactured. Am I incorrect?

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Originally Posted by bekindrewind View Post

I'm not sure we are comparing apples to apples. The LG 84LM9600 has local dimming, but it's an edge lit unit, not full array.
Edge lit units play with the wording, like saying local dimming. Samsung also does local dimming, they word it as micro dimming. Those units are not full array.
Sharp has a full array, but no local dimming unit.
Sony's XBR has full array and local dimming as does the Elite.

+1

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Originally Posted by ti-triodes View Post

Are you talking about the HX950 or some new model? I was under the impression the 950 was discontinued already and Sony wasn't going to make any more local dimmers.

So was I.

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Originally Posted by Browninggold View Post

950s are still available

Available, yes. Still being manufactured though? I thought they stopped to begin building the 2013 models.
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post #544 of 3705 Old 02-20-2013, 04:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tbris84 View Post

Five? I thought we (not you or I) spent pages upon pages arguing about edge-lit "local dimming" and came to the conclusion that it is geometrically impossible for an edge-lit tv to also have local dimming. If that is still true, this LG 84LM9600 that is in fact edge-lit doesn't actually have local dimming, but rather a Samsung-esque artificial "micro-dimming". Seems only fair if Samsung's edge-lit set's can't claim to be local dimmers, LG's edge-lit sets can't either.

That leaves the smaller LG LM9600's, the Sony HX950, and the Elite 60X5FD. I was under the impression the Elite Pro and Sony HX were no longer being produced. (Yes, they're still purchaseable while supplies last, but no longer being manufactured.) Leaving only the smaller LG LM9600's as the last full-array, local-dimming model still being manufactured. Am I incorrect?
Sony's are still being made, they are actually still in mid year right now. ( According to my Sony rep ) . Elites are done being manufactured.

On LG's web site, as I noted, it says local dimming, there are very few users out there so it is not 100% clear if LG's web site is correct, but it should be. Remember you state yourself that the smaller LM9600 are local dimming, the 84" is part of the same series and should be local dimming as well.

Micro Dimming is something Samsung came out with on there own so they can "still try" to make a local dimming unit, however, it just does not work like local dimming.
.
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post #545 of 3705 Old 02-20-2013, 04:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cleveland Plasma View Post

Sony's are still being made, they are actually still in mid year right now. ( According to my Sony rep ) . Elites are done being manufactured.

On LG's web site, as I noted, it says local dimming, there are very few users out there so it is not 100% clear if LG's web site is correct, but it should be. Remember you state yourself that the smaller LM9600 are local dimming, the 84" is part of the same series and should be local dimming as well.

Micro Dimming is something Samsung came out with on there own so they can "still try" to make a local dimming unit, however, it just does not work like local dimming.
.
.

Oh ok, didn't know Sony's model years were offset like that.

Yeah, it does say "local dimming" on the LG site, but it's an edge-lit TV. They share the same model number as the smaller set's but the smaller sets are full-array. CNET says this: "The TV shares a series name with the 2012 LM9600 Nano line of full-array local-dimming LED TVs, but unlike those direct-lit TVs, it is edge-lit. Otherwise, it shares those models' feature sets, including the four-way Magic Motion remote with voice control and LG's Smart TV suite."

The LG site for the smaller 9600's call it a "nano full LED w/local dimming" but the larger 84" says "LED plus w/local dimming." I'm just curious to see how LG pulled off edge-lit local-dimming, when Samsung couldn't.
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post #546 of 3705 Old 02-20-2013, 05:44 PM
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Sorry if this has been answered before but who manufacture the Samsung 75" displays? I think I read somewhere in these forums that Sharp make the 65ES8000, so I'm wondering if that is true for the 75ES9000 and whether anyone has heard who will be producing the new models. I would get a 65ES8000 but there have been a lot of complaints on this forum about the 65" display and recommendations to drop to the 60".. I really don't want to go under 65" and would love a 75" screen. Unfortunately 80" won't fit the space I have so I am hoping to get a 65-75" screen once the 2013 models are released.
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post #547 of 3705 Old 02-20-2013, 06:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cleveland Plasma View Post

The 84" LG 84LM9600 says right on the front page and in thru the specs that the unit is "local Dimming" >>> Click Here ( This unit has a great "street" price by the way, amazing actually ), so that should make 3 local dimming units. Make that 5, I forgot about the 47 and 55 LG 9600.

--You are right, that is sad, that only 5 units being made today have local dimming.

Chris, it's not a full array panel. It may be edge lit 'local dimming', but not full array. It would be highly unlikely that LG would be able to sell an 84" full array, 4K panel for the price they're asking.
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post #548 of 3705 Old 02-20-2013, 07:39 PM
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post #549 of 3705 Old 02-20-2013, 07:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markmanpww View Post

Can you post a link about this new Sony 4K LCD with "Full Array"? I'd like to check it out.6.gif

The new 4K Sony isn't full array. It's edge lit. The fact that neither the LG nor the Sony has full array local dimming is very telling. These are state-of-the-art, next gen sets, and yet they still don't feature the technology.
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post #550 of 3705 Old 02-20-2013, 07:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Cleveland Plasma View Post

MSRP of 20K. you do not think it can be done at that price ?

Not likely. The Sony 84" 4K TV retails for $25K and is also edge-lit. From what I've read here, the only large full-array/LD TV is the 85" Samsung at $30K+

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post #551 of 3705 Old 02-20-2013, 07:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tbris84 View Post

The LG site for the smaller 9600's call it a "nano full LED w/local dimming" but the larger 84" says "LED plus w/local dimming." I'm just curious to see how LG pulled off edge-lit local-dimming, when Samsung couldn't.
Keep in mind that maybe the technology from LG, being edge lit and local dimming can work well, where Samsung's "Micro Dimming" and edge lit technology if different and does not. Two different animals.

To further this discussion I wonder if the edge lit with local dimming could somehow work better on the larger sets ? Think about it for a second, maybe for some reason the screens did not lite well around the edge or corners on the larger screens and to compensate they lit the edges. Just a thought, don't light me up....lol.
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Originally Posted by fatuglyguy View Post

Not likely. The Sony 84" 4K TV retails for $25K and is also edge-lit. From what I've read here, the only large full-array/LD TV is the 85" Samsung at $30K+
What model, a commercial model? If so they are always over priced as they are meant for commercial applications......
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post #552 of 3705 Old 02-20-2013, 08:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cleveland Plasma View Post

Keep in mind that maybe the technology from LG, being edge lit and local dimming can work well, where Samsung's "Micro Dimming" and edge lit technology if different and does not. Two different animals.

To further this discussion I wonder if the edge lit with local dimming could somehow work better on the larger sets ? Think about it for a second, maybe for some reason the screens did not lite well around the edge or corners on the larger screens and to compensate they lit the edges. Just a thought, don't light me up....lol.
What model, a commercial model? If so they are always over priced as they are meant for commercial applications......

Not a commercial model at all...the XBR-84X900. Sony's 4K passive 3D set. I think it's more expensive because it has a good built-in audio system, a Sony tablet for remote control, and Sony loans you a 4K content server when you purchase the TV. I've seen it in person and it also is edge-lit with local dimming...but only on a showroom floor playing relatively bright content, so there's no way to say how good the uniformity really was, but no obvious issues jumped out. I haven't seen the LG. Going off of smaller 1080p edge-lit models with local dimming, between the three major manufacturers that employ it (Samsung, LG, Sony)...Sony seems to employ the edge-dimming scheme the best, by far. Don't know how that translates to mega-sized Ultra-HD panels, though -- especially considering that the panels for the LG and Sony (and upcoming Toshiba) are all sourced from LG. I'd assume the 84" UHD panels are some variant of IPS, which inherently have lower contrast than VA variants, and may reveal imperfections in uniformity more readily.

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post #553 of 3705 Old 02-21-2013, 03:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Cleveland Plasma View Post

MSRP of 20K. you do not think it can be done at that price ?

The Sony @$25,000 doesn't have it, so it's not unreasonable that the LG, streeting at $16,000 doesn't have it either.

They should, but who knows how much higher that would have made the price?
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Originally Posted by markmanpww View Post

I remember in March the day the ES8000 was put up for sale on Amazon, I paid close to $3K for the small 46" then after a few weeks, the prices came down a lot and pretty much stayed down. Its going to be interesting to see what they do with the 75" ES9000. Maybe they will lower it to where it should be around $6K6.gif
6k would be nice! I need a new TV
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post #555 of 3705 Old 02-21-2013, 06:52 AM
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Originally Posted by fatuglyguy View Post

Not a commercial model at all...the XBR-84X900. Sony's 4K passive 3D set.y.
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Originally Posted by fatuglyguy View Post

From what I've read here, the only large full-array/LD TV is the 85" Samsung at $30K+
This is the unit I was talking about. What Samsung model are you talking about That is full-array/LD TV is the 85" Samsung at $30K+
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post #556 of 3705 Old 02-21-2013, 08:21 AM
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Originally Posted by tbris84 View Post

Five? I thought we (not you or I) spent pages upon pages arguing about edge-lit "local dimming" and came to the conclusion that it is geometrically impossible for an edge-lit tv to also have local dimming. If that is still true, this LG 84LM9600 that is in fact edge-lit doesn't actually have local dimming, but rather a Samsung-esque artificial "micro-dimming". Seems only fair if Samsung's edge-lit set's can't claim to be local dimmers, LG's edge-lit sets can't either.

That leaves the smaller LG LM9600's, the Sony HX950, and the Elite 60X5FD. I was under the impression the Elite Pro and Sony HX were no longer being produced. (Yes, they're still purchaseable while supplies last, but no longer being manufactured.) Leaving only the smaller LG LM9600's as the last full-array, local-dimming model still being manufactured. Am I incorrect?
+1
So was I.
Available, yes. Still being manufactured though? I thought they stopped to begin building the 2013 models.

HX950 has been discontinued.
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post #557 of 3705 Old 02-21-2013, 08:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cleveland Plasma View Post

Sony's are still being made, they are actually still in mid year right now. ( According to my Sony rep ) . Elites are done being manufactured.

On LG's web site, as I noted, it says local dimming, there are very few users out there so it is not 100% clear if LG's web site is correct, but it should be. Remember you state yourself that the smaller LM9600 are local dimming, the 84" is part of the same series and should be local dimming as well.

Micro Dimming is something Samsung came out with on there own so they can "still try" to make a local dimming unit, however, it just does not work like local dimming.
.
.

http://store.sony.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/CategoryDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10151&facetlist=true&N=4294947630+4294938800&catalogId=10551&identifier=S_Televisions&categoryId=16189&viewTaskName=CategoryDisplayView

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post #558 of 3705 Old 02-21-2013, 12:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Justin Sullins View Post

HX950 has been discontinued.
Chris at post #544 begs to differ. I have no position on it but would welcome something definitive.
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post #559 of 3705 Old 02-21-2013, 12:48 PM
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Chris at post #544 begs to differ. I have no position on it but would welcome something definitive.

That's what I was told by a Sony Rep at my local Sony Store. They are still for sale as everyone knows but not for long. I don't know if it's to make way for the w900a or if it's just too expensive for Sony to reproduce "full-array local-dimmers".
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post #560 of 3705 Old 02-21-2013, 04:19 PM
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post #561 of 3705 Old 02-21-2013, 04:25 PM
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This is the unit I was talking about. What Samsung model are you talking about That is full-array/LD TV is the 85" Samsung at $30K+

The UN85S9:

http://reviews.cnet.com/flat-panel-tvs/samsung-un85s9/4505-6482_7-35567048.html

And as far as the HX950 goes, IIRC, according to weekly inventory updates from the corporate office at my job, it lists the HX950 as "approaching EOL with no direct replacement."

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post #562 of 3705 Old 02-21-2013, 05:33 PM
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Post deleted--responded to wrong post..... rolleyes.gif

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post #563 of 3705 Old 02-21-2013, 05:40 PM
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Originally Posted by fatuglyguy View Post

Not likely. The Sony 84" 4K TV retails for $25K and is also edge-lit. From what I've read here, the only large full-array/LD TV is the 85" Samsung at $30K+

How do we know that Sammy is full-array?

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post #564 of 3705 Old 02-21-2013, 05:42 PM
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Post deleted--responded to wrong post..... rolleyes.gif

This blurb from Cnet in a separate posting: http://ces.cnet.com/2300-34451_1-10015415.html

and the value electronics webpage on the forthcoming S9 plainly state it's Full Array/LD: http://un85s9.com/

Pirce is listed on various publications as 40,000,000 KRW, which is roughly $38,000. While it's not likely to be that expensive once it hits the US, one can only assume that it will be at least $30K. I don't think Samsung would dare charge $5,000 over what the 84" Sony goes for and $10,000 above the LG just for that extra inch and easel stand. For now we can assume it's actually full-array/locdim.

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post #565 of 3705 Old 02-21-2013, 06:24 PM - Thread Starter
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Samsung is very impressed with their hideous easel stand. They might charge $5,000 for it.

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working.
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post #566 of 3705 Old 02-21-2013, 06:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fatuglyguy View Post

This blurb from Cnet in a separate posting: http://ces.cnet.com/2300-34451_1-10015415.html

and the value electronics webpage on the forthcoming S9 plainly state it's Full Array/LD: http://un85s9.com/

Pirce is listed on various publications as 40,000,000 KRW, which is roughly $38,000. While it's not likely to be that expensive once it hits the US, one can only assume that it will be at least $30K. I don't think Samsung would dare charge $5,000 over what the 84" Sony goes for and $10,000 above the LG just for that extra inch and easel stand. For now we can assume it's actually full-array/locdim.


Thanks--Now, that's a television. Thanks for those links. I didn't realize that one was full array.

It says you can use it without the frame and sound system-- I wonder if you can BUY it like that?

Which would probably only drop the price a couple hundred.. rolleyes.gif

I also like that it doesn't have the camera and hand control.... biggrin.gif

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post #567 of 3705 Old 02-22-2013, 06:50 AM
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yeah,i think so, This year has a lot of exciting stuff compared to last years. Just wish they had more info on everything. 10.gif
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post #568 of 3705 Old 02-22-2013, 07:34 AM
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I keep reading a number of posts by those who are looking for something big. How about a 103" plasma, the Beovision 4-103







m

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post #569 of 3705 Old 02-22-2013, 09:18 AM
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Originally Posted by JimShaw View Post

I keep reading a number of posts by those who are looking for something big. How about a 103" plasma, the Beovision 4-103







m

That's really sweet. I can only imagine how low I would have to drop my thermostat to keep the room from becoming an oven. Had to drop it 3 degrees with the 51" E8000. haha
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post #570 of 3705 Old 02-22-2013, 09:35 AM
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Originally Posted by fatuglyguy View Post

This blurb from Cnet in a separate posting: http://ces.cnet.com/2300-34451_1-10015415.html

Pirce is listed on various publications as 40,000,000 KRW, which is roughly $38,000. While it's not likely to be that expensive once it hits the US, one can only assume that it will be at least $30K. I don't think Samsung would dare charge $5,000 over what the 84" Sony goes for and $10,000 above the LG just for that extra inch and easel stand. For now we can assume it's actually full-array/locdim.
I guess first we will wait and see if it is actually released, then we will verify it is full array with local dimming. At that price point I would not be surprised if it never hits the streets. One could buy a 85" Panasonic for half the price and it will 100% rival a local dimming LED. ( I am not saying it would be better or worse, I used the word "rival" )
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