Samsung F8000 -- 2013 Flagship Models - Page 41 - AVS Forum
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post #1201 of 3719 Old 03-13-2013, 10:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mono2dolby View Post

So, I'm a newbie in this realm (which is obvious by my B.S. posts and lack of any technical jargon to make myself seem knowledgable about anything at all). In the last review from Robert Zohn (who seems to be the Dali Lama of this whole place) he recommends having the TV professionally calibrated. I would agree on principle that it sounds like a good idea. But how much does something like that usually cost? And if I choose to go the DIY route, am I able to do so and get the right results? I mean, I have an eye for color and contrast and detail (in the advertising/design world) but not for this TV stuff. Most of the things that bug 90% of the people here are not really an issue for me. I don't notice clouding or flashlighting during movies on my Sony LED (55HX800) because I'm paying attention to the bright spots on the TV (the actual picture I'm watching). I guess I'm a consumer "sheep" because I think my TV looks pretty good. It gets chunky at times, but mostly during very dark scenes or rapid movement. I can probably adjust that away. Or, professionally calibrate that away. rolleyes.gif

I tried to calibrate my TV with the settings I found online. All started with "movie" mode, and then tried to make everything soft and silky. But normal cable TV (80% of my family's viewing) is not that. It looked stupid. It softened everything to the point of absurdity. I went back to square 1 and I'm now a few clicks away from factory settings. Does that make me an idiot?

I guess my point is, can I calibrate the F8000 myself with help from the Forum? Or do I need to pay some dude $300 to come to my house and bump my blues, tone down my reds, kill the contrast, not crush my blacks, and turn my bright, poppy TV into a flatscreen of mush?

See...B.S. post again!frown.gif

While reading these forums might make it appear that every person who buys a TV has it professionally calibrated, I can assure you this is not the case. For example, I don't particularly care for the look of an ISF calibrated set. Some members of this forum might consider this blasphemy, but at the end of the day, the only thing that matters is that I am happy with the picture.
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post #1202 of 3719 Old 03-13-2013, 10:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gweempose View Post

While reading these forums might make it appear that every person who buys a TV has it professionally calibrated, I can assure you this is not the case. For example, I don't particularly care for the look of an ISF calibrated set. Some members of this forum might consider this blasphemy, but at the end of the day, the only thing that matters is that I am happy with the picture.

You took the words right out of my mouth. When you spend your hard earned money on a TV it should look how YOU want it to look like. Some people like the toned down realistic look, others like the boosted exaggerated look, I find myself somewhere in between.

Right now no one has an F8000 in their home but soon the forum will be filled with owners (like the ES8000 owners forum). Usually, the owners will post their calibrated settings. I advise that you start with these settings and then make tweaks until the picture looks good to you. According to the reviews, it seems like Samsung is going for a more reference picture this time. This will be good for newbies and experts alike because it won't require as much tweaking out of the box.

I wish you the best of luck in your journey to becoming an AV expert. I have been part of this forum for a while but I'm still learning new things every day. One thing is for sure though. Joining this forum will make you much more picky in choosing a TV. I bought my first HDTV 2 ears ago (C6300) and now I can't watch it without being bothered by the clouding and flash lighting.
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post #1203 of 3719 Old 03-13-2013, 11:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dad0118 View Post

And what is that based on? Last year's E8000 set was comparable the the ST50 and had many issues with buzzing. There are even videos of the F8500 buzzing. With the ZT50 being built from the ground up by a company that has "owned" the plasma market for the last few years, I am going to give them the benefit of the doubt and let Samsung prove me wrong...

I've had almost as many plasmas as Ken - Pioneer, Panasonic, Samsung. They all buzz to varying degrees. Since I don't watch tv sans audio, the buzzing is a nonissue - I only hear it after I power off the amp/speakers.

And I have a Samsung E7000 - calibrated beautifully and zero stuck pixels or other issues. No IR either.

But, once you start to look above 65", it's lcd or nothing - hence my interest in the F8000.

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post #1204 of 3719 Old 03-14-2013, 08:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mono2dolby View Post

So, I'm a newbie in this realm (which is obvious by my B.S. posts and lack of any technical jargon to make myself seem knowledgable about anything at all). In the last review from Robert Zohn (who seems to be the Dali Lama of this whole place) he recommends having the TV professionally calibrated. I would agree on principle that it sounds like a good idea. But how much does something like that usually cost? And if I choose to go the DIY route, am I able to do so and get the right results? I mean, I have an eye for color and contrast and detail (in the advertising/design world) but not for this TV stuff. Most of the things that bug 90% of the people here are not really an issue for me. I don't notice clouding or flashlighting during movies on my Sony LED (55HX800) because I'm paying attention to the bright spots on the TV (the actual picture I'm watching). I guess I'm a consumer "sheep" because I think my TV looks pretty good. It gets chunky at times, but mostly during very dark scenes or rapid movement. I can probably adjust that away. Or, professionally calibrate that away. rolleyes.gif

I tried to calibrate my TV with the settings I found online. All started with "movie" mode, and then tried to make everything soft and silky. But normal cable TV (80% of my family's viewing) is not that. It looked stupid. It softened everything to the point of absurdity. I went back to square 1 and I'm now a few clicks away from factory settings. Does that make me an idiot?

I guess my point is, can I calibrate the F8000 myself with help from the Forum? Or do I need to pay some dude $300 to come to my house and bump my blues, tone down my reds, kill the contrast, not crush my blacks, and turn my bright, poppy TV into a flatscreen of mush?

See...B.S. post again!frown.gif

As others have said, you could start by using a retail calibration disc. I have had great results with the Disney WOW disc, available from Amazon, and there is also an excellent free disc available from AVS. I would recommend starting from there and see if you're happy with the results before spending hundreds on a professional calibration. The Disney WOW disc is nice because it contains tons of useful information for the beginner regarding audio and video, plus lots of audio and video test clips (and of course lots of Disney clips too). It's really perfect for a beginner - this should help get your set looking quite nice.

Not everybody likes the same look, and not everybody would be happy with the look of a professional calibration. I hear many people talk about the Samsung "warm 2" color setting to be closest to industry standards, yet I find it much too warm for my tastes.
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post #1205 of 3719 Old 03-14-2013, 09:30 AM
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Has anyone actually been able to measure the stand ? What is it exact size then ?
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post #1206 of 3719 Old 03-14-2013, 09:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Farice View Post

Has anyone actually been able to measure the stand ? What is it exact size then ?

From the looks of it, it's almost exactly as wide as the set. Since the bezel is so small, you can calculate the approximate width of the set using the diagonal. Too bad I didn't pay better attention in math, or I'd be able to do the calculation for you ... smile.gif
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post #1207 of 3719 Old 03-14-2013, 10:26 AM
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Just received word that VE's 2013 Flat Panel HDTV Shootout Evaluation event will start on Friday, May 10th and finish Saturday, May 11th.

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post #1208 of 3719 Old 03-14-2013, 10:40 AM
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Originally Posted by moonhawk View Post

I'll look at the state of the art plasmas when they start making large screens. Until then, the 75" F8000 WILL be the set to beat. cool.gif
Or bigger, but that's all I can fit this time around.... biggrin.gif
The 75" Samsung is way, way over price compared to the sharp 70" and 80" units. Sammy does have a little better picture, but not by much.

Panasonic makes bigger plasma's at 85", 103", and 152" unit. When one compares the pricing of the Sharp to the Samsung, its like comparing the Samsung to a Panasonic plasma. Unfair consumer pricing frown.gif
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post #1209 of 3719 Old 03-14-2013, 11:11 AM
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Agree re Samsung 75" price, but we haven't heard what price point the f8000 will be. There is also a lower range Samsung 75" model that's supposed to be coming out. Otherwise I agree I will buy a Sharp.
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post #1210 of 3719 Old 03-14-2013, 11:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimShaw View Post

Just received word that VE's 2013 Flat Panel HDTV Shootout Evaluation event will start on Friday, May 10th and finish Saturday, May 11th.

Will OLED's be out by then for inclusion in the competition?
Also, according to the Panasonic "Insider", the ZT60 won't be out until May. I'm hoping they wouldn't have the shootout without getting that set.

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post #1211 of 3719 Old 03-14-2013, 11:27 AM
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Anyone heard what's going to happen to the UN75ES9000?
It's currently the 2012 "Flagship" yet the F8000 is considered the 2013 "Flagship". You can't have two different led model flagships in the same year.

It seems the F8000 has all the features of the ES9000, including the 75" size.
The comparison of the F8000 vs ES9000 is more accurate then the F8000 vs ES8000
People are talking about the F8000 as the ES8000 replacement, when the F8000 seems to mimic the ES9000.

The 2013 Samsung line up does not list the UN75ES9000, which makes one think the UN75F8000 may be it's replacement.

Thoughts?

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post #1212 of 3719 Old 03-14-2013, 11:33 AM
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F8000 owners - can anyone tell us how high the bottom edge of the TV is from the surface it is placed on.

Just wondering if the new F8000 stand places the viewing height of the TV any higher or lower than the outgoing ES8000 series.

On my 65" ES8000 the bottom edge of the frame/bezel of the TV is 2" from the surface. The F8000 looks like it may be lower?
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post #1213 of 3719 Old 03-14-2013, 11:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sony1717 View Post

F8000 owners - can anyone tell us how high the bottom edge of the TV is from the surface it is placed on.

Just wondering if the new F8000 stand places the viewing height of the TV any higher or lower than the outgoing ES8000 series.

On my 65" ES8000 the bottom edge of the frame/bezel of the TV is 2" from the surface. The F8000 looks like it may be lower?

Based on the spec sheet, it is 1.4" taller with the stand than without. I can measure when I get home, but that seems pretty accurate.
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post #1214 of 3719 Old 03-14-2013, 11:47 AM
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Originally Posted by dad0118 View Post

Will OLED's be out by then for inclusion in the competition?
Also, according to the Panasonic "Insider", the ZT60 won't be out until May. I'm hoping they wouldn't have the shootout without getting that set.

At this point I almost look at OLED as a perennial prototype, never in real production, always talked about but never really 'there'. So I'm inclined to say about OLED not being in the VE shootout, 'so what?'.

Yeah, I'd like to see it, but let's face it, it's not a real product, certainly not by any traditional standards.
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post #1215 of 3719 Old 03-14-2013, 12:43 PM - Thread Starter
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Robert can't make an OLED show up if none are in the U.S. and he can't get an LG rep to comandeer one here.

Maybe he pulls that off, maybe he doesn't.

But since the chances of LG selling >1000 OLEDs in the U.S. this year look smaller than the chances of the President and House Speaker becomes best buddies, this really does seem unimportant.

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working. (Oh, and plasma didn't die because of logistics problems, nor does OLED ship in big boxes because it comes from Korea.)
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post #1216 of 3719 Old 03-14-2013, 01:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rogo View Post

Robert can't make an OLED show up if none are in the U.S. and he can't get an LG rep to comandeer one here.

Maybe he pulls that off, maybe he doesn't.

But since the chances of LG selling >1000 OLEDs in the U.S. this year look smaller than the chances of the President and House Speaker becomes best buddies, this really does seem unimportant.

Of course, one scenario would be desirable, the other..... rolleyes.gif

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post #1217 of 3719 Old 03-14-2013, 01:14 PM
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What do you guys think the price of the 65 will be and when will come out, why dont they come out at the same time anyway?
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post #1218 of 3719 Old 03-14-2013, 01:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rogo View Post

Robert can't make an OLED show up if none are in the U.S. and he can't get an LG rep to comandeer one here.

Maybe he pulls that off, maybe he doesn't.

But since the chances of LG selling >1000 OLEDs in the U.S. this year look smaller than the chances of the President and House Speaker becomes best buddies, this really does seem unimportant.


I guess we'll see. It sounds like LG is saying July now. I remember them saying at CES it would be a few months.

I wouldn't call it unimportant though; would be nice to see how these stack up to the best of the other two technologies.

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post #1219 of 3719 Old 03-14-2013, 01:49 PM
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Originally Posted by cdjocp View Post

What do you guys think the price of the 65 will be and when will come out, why dont they come out at the same time anyway?

I was told $4,300 by a magnolia employee. Put as much stock into that as you want.

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post #1220 of 3719 Old 03-14-2013, 01:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dad0118 View Post

Will OLED's be out by then for inclusion in the competition?
Also, according to the Panasonic "Insider", the ZT60 won't be out until May. I'm hoping they wouldn't have the shootout without getting that set.

if i was a betting man i'm sure Robert has one allocated from Panasonic.

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post #1221 of 3719 Old 03-14-2013, 02:59 PM
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You better tell everyone how many remotes come in the box! LOL biggrin.gif

Okay, most of you can probably refer to Robert Zohn's pre-review/review for the technical bits.

As for the quick questions and impressions:

1) My set from Best Buy ONLY came with the smart remote. No normal remote. It is actually kind of cool to work with but does take some getting used to. I would have appreciated one normal remote as well for my girlfriend who is not so tech savvy.

2) I have experience with the 55ES8000 to compare this set to (a good friend owns this set), and in terms of backlight uniformity, flashlighting, etc etc there is a noticeable improvement. For all the technical measurements you can refer to the existing reviews, but to the tv/monitor enthusiast the PQ is excellent. You can probably see this readily in most Best Buy stores as they set up their F8000's on display and let you tinker with them a bit (they usually have plenty of ES8000's).

3) I have not had the screen calibrated yet, although I am a BB Silver Premier member so will be taking them up on that free calibration sometime soon. I do however color calibrate my PC monitors and laptop screens as I am a professional photographer and with a few basic adjustments I can say that you get a pretty decently accurate screen. It is off straight out of the box though and does need some tweaking. Movie mode seemed to be best IMO.

4) The smart hub and overall speed of the interface is noticeably improved over last year's model. I have DirecTV and the integration is fantastic. I still prefer some apps on my xbox360 but the usability and fluidity of the smart features is probably the best yet.

5) The stand is visually quite appealing and stable. It does require a wide base, but the stand I currently have my set on is pretty wide so I had no issues. Like last year's 8000 series it does not swivel. The viewing angles are so good on this set though that this can almost be overlooked.
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post #1222 of 3719 Old 03-14-2013, 03:09 PM
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Friscomgm, how is the web browser, is it 3 times faster with the quad core? Does the browser add any new features? Thanks.
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post #1223 of 3719 Old 03-14-2013, 03:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by friscomgm View Post

Okay, most of you can probably refer to Robert Zohn's pre-review/review for the technical bits.

As for the quick questions and impressions:

1) My set from Best Buy ONLY came with the smart remote. No normal remote. It is actually kind of cool to work with but does take some getting used to. I would have appreciated one normal remote as well for my girlfriend who is not so tech savvy.

2) I have experience with the 55ES8000 to compare this set to (a good friend owns this set), and in terms of backlight uniformity, flashlighting, etc etc there is a noticeable improvement. For all the technical measurements you can refer to the existing reviews, but to the tv/monitor enthusiast the PQ is excellent. You can probably see this readily in most Best Buy stores as they set up their F8000's on display and let you tinker with them a bit (they usually have plenty of ES8000's).

3) I have not had the screen calibrated yet, although I am a BB Silver Premier member so will be taking them up on that free calibration sometime soon. I do however color calibrate my PC monitors and laptop screens as I am a professional photographer and with a few basic adjustments I can say that you get a pretty decently accurate screen. It is off straight out of the box though and does need some tweaking. Movie mode seemed to be best IMO.

4) The smart hub and overall speed of the interface is noticeably improved over last year's model. I have DirecTV and the integration is fantastic. I still prefer some apps on my xbox360 but the usability and fluidity of the smart features is probably the best yet.

5) The stand is visually quite appealing and stable. It does require a wide base, but the stand I currently have my set on is pretty wide so I had no issues. Like last year's 8000 series it does not swivel. The viewing angles are so good on this set though that this can almost be overlooked.

The viewing angles are so good? surely there will be a fair amount of lightening of the black bars as you go more off angle?

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post #1224 of 3719 Old 03-14-2013, 03:48 PM
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Originally Posted by friscomgm View Post

Okay, most of you can probably refer to Robert Zohn's pre-review/review for the technical bits.

2) I have experience with the 55ES8000 to compare this set to (a good friend owns this set), and in terms of backlight uniformity, flashlighting, etc etc there is a noticeable improvement. For all the technical measurements you can refer to the existing reviews, but to the tv/monitor enthusiast the PQ is excellent. You can probably see this readily in most Best Buy stores as they set up their F8000's on display and let you tinker with them a bit (they usually have plenty of ES8000's).

Granted I only had the ES8000 for a few days but screen uniformity was terrible. The "V" Shaped bleed and flashlighting. What has "noticeably improved" on the F8000?
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post #1225 of 3719 Old 03-14-2013, 04:33 PM
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Originally Posted by friscomgm View Post

Okay, most of you can probably refer to Robert Zohn's pre-review/review for the technical bits.

As for the quick questions and impressions:
2) I have experience with the 55ES8000 to compare this set to (a good friend owns this set), and in terms of backlight uniformity, flashlighting, etc etc there is a noticeable improvement.

Friscomgm, have you watched the display in a totally darkened room? If so, what were your impressions of black levels & shadow detail?
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post #1226 of 3719 Old 03-14-2013, 05:36 PM
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Originally Posted by gweempose View Post

For example, I don't particularly care for the look of an ISF calibrated set. Some members of this forum might consider this blasphemy, but at the end of the day, the only thing that matters is that I am happy with the picture.

You don't have to watch a movie the way the director intended, but, then again, why would you not want to do that?

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You took the words right out of my mouth. When you spend your hard earned money on a TV it should look how YOU want it to look like. Some people like the toned down realistic look, others like the boosted exaggerated look, I find myself somewhere in between.

Your hard earned money gives you the ability to watch what ever quality picture you want, correct or not. But is it some extra visual entertainment you're looking for? Look at the TV. Look at your walls. Look at the TV. Adjust it so it looks like your walls. Sorry if you don't like real life but that's the way it goes....

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Originally Posted by eagle_2 View Post

Not everybody likes the same look, and not everybody would be happy with the look of a professional calibration. I hear many people talk about the Samsung "warm 2" color setting to be closest to industry standards, yet I find it much too warm for my tastes.

Calibration is to a standard. In this case, Rec.709, the same exact standard that both Blu-Ray discs and hopefully broadcast TV is mastered. "Warm 2" is not a Samsung term, it's a universally used setting to try and get the color of white to a specific point on a CIE chart, part of the Rec.709 standard. Warm 2 is what a calibrator selects first. If another Warm or cool designation is closer to the white point they select that and then begin the calibration.

Real reports, not CES drive-byes, will be coming soon. You all really need to wait and see what the real numbers are on the F8000, how good it is or isn't, buy or not buy.

This TV need three things to make it a winner:
1: Good black level - high end plasma will still beat the crap out of it but it needs to be better than last year
2. Minimal flashlighting
3. Minimal clouding

Samsung already has the best color management and a very good grayscale and gamma ability built in. If they can accomplish the above three requirements the TV is a winner for 2013 in the LCD category.

Buzz
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post #1227 of 3719 Old 03-14-2013, 06:14 PM
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Originally Posted by buzzard767 View Post

You don't have to watch a movie the way the director intended, but, then again, why would you not want to do that?
Your hard earned money gives you the ability to watch what ever quality picture you want, correct or not. But is it some extra visual entertainment you're looking for? Look at the TV. Look at your walls. Look at the TV. Adjust it so it looks like your walls.

Buzz

What I hear you saying is: Not to have the company that you purchased the TV from ship the TV to you already calibrated. The TV needs to be in the home and then have a calibrator stop by, correct?

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post #1228 of 3719 Old 03-14-2013, 06:21 PM
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Originally Posted by dad0118 View Post

I guess we'll see. It sounds like LG is saying July now. I remember them saying at CES it would be a few months.
They have been saying this for two years now, I hope they actually get released this year.........
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post #1229 of 3719 Old 03-14-2013, 06:26 PM
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I have seen the UN55F8000 at Best Buy Today!biggrin.gif

First, the Negatives: Poor viewing angle, Similar contrast to ES series and less color "pop" in Movie, Natural, Standard and Dynamic presets *


Now, The Positives: Excellent color saturation, very accurate colors in Movie, Natural and Standard.

The Black level is really deep, the motion has improved, no stuttering/slowdown (the quad-processor at work).

The new Smart hub is fun, practical and easy to use. No flash-lighting, no clouding, and no banding.

The best picture processing Samsung has had since the A and B series, PQ destroyed the ES7500 under it.

Sleek design...up front, looks like the ES7100 with a tiny Samsung logo in the bottom center. Improved TV speakers.

Menu design is slightly modified and more responsive. Looked like the best TV in a wall of Sonys, Panasonics, Vizios, L.G.s and Samsungs.

* not an issue for me but would turn-off the average TV shopper. wink.gif
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post #1230 of 3719 Old 03-14-2013, 06:27 PM
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Originally Posted by buzzard767 View Post

You don't have to watch a movie the way the director intended, but, then again, why would you not want to do that?


He literally answered already in what you quoted. He doesnt enjoy watching that calibration. If that is the optimal viewing experience for you then you should use it. If he enjoys watching a different calibration more then that is what he should use. He should watch it in a way that brings him the most enjoyment, not how someone else intended for it to be watched.
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