Samsung F8000 -- 2013 Flagship Models - Page 43 - AVS Forum
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post #1261 of 3705 Old 03-15-2013, 09:54 AM
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Lwood, could you measure the stand and tell us its exact size ?
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post #1262 of 3705 Old 03-15-2013, 10:26 AM
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Does the F8000 have the Amazon VOD?
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post #1263 of 3705 Old 03-15-2013, 10:35 AM
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Originally Posted by staren937 View Post

Does the F8000 have the Amazon VOD?

I don't believe any Samsung TV has Amazon VOD built in. The only TV manufacturers that currently support it are Sony, Panasonic, LG, and Vizio.
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post #1264 of 3705 Old 03-15-2013, 11:25 AM
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My ES7500 has the Amazon Instant Video App. I haven't used it yet. Anyone know how good the HD and sound quality are? Is it 1080p for HD? Thanks.
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post #1265 of 3705 Old 03-15-2013, 11:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CraigerCSM View Post


My ES7500 has the Amazon Instant Video App. I haven't used it yet. Anyone know how good the HD and sound quality are? Is it 1080p for HD? Thanks.

I stand corrected. smile.gif
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post #1266 of 3705 Old 03-15-2013, 11:49 AM
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I just spoke with Robert from VE. It looks like my perceptions of the F8000 were correct. He had Ed Johnson up to his store to have the F8000 ISF'd. The bottom line is that Ed was stunned by the display. He was sure it was a full array panel, the black levels were that good. Additionally, there was no flashlighting, screen uniformity was great, gamma was flat across all luminance levels and color & detail were right up there with the Kuro.

It appears Samsung has indeed found a way to make edge lit displays mirror a full array panel. My eyes weren't deceiving me.
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post #1267 of 3705 Old 03-15-2013, 11:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

I just spoke with Robert from VE. It looks like my perceptions of the F8000 were correct. He had Ed Johnson up to his store to have the F8000 ISF'd. The bottom line is that Ed was stunned by the display. He was sure it was a full array panel, the black levels were that good. Additionally, there was no flashlighting, screen uniformity was great, gamma was flat across all luminance levels and color & detail were right up there with the Kuro.

It appears Samsung has indeed found a way to make edge lit displays mirror a full array panel. My eyes weren't deceiving me.

Ken, I'm not totally shocked to hear this as I expected the F8000 to be a nice display. However, I WILL BE shocked if we can say the same thing about the 60 and 65 inch models though in a couple of months. Then I'll be impressed. wink.gif Oh... forgot to mention.... as long as they can also reduce the number of duds as well in regards to dead pixels and other manufacturing defects that plagued the C, D, and ES lines. Last thing I want to do is exchange set after set due to dead pixels again. (Had to send back four ES8000s with dead pixels).
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post #1268 of 3705 Old 03-15-2013, 12:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cmay91472 View Post


Ken, I'm not totally shocked to hear this as I expected the F8000 to be a nice display. However, I WILL BE shocked if we can say the same thing about the 60 and 65 inch models though in a couple of months. Then I'll be impressed. wink.gif

No doubt. The bigger the panel is, the harder it is to successfully pull off edge lighting. Who knows, maybe we'll be surprised.
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post #1269 of 3705 Old 03-15-2013, 12:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

I just spoke with Robert from VE. It looks like my perceptions of the F8000 were correct. He had Ed Johnson up to his store to have the F8000 ISF'd. The bottom line is that Ed was stunned by the display. He was sure it was a full array panel, the black levels were that good. Additionally, there was no flashlighting, screen uniformity was great, gamma was flat across all luminance levels and color & detail were right up there with the Kuro.

It appears Samsung has indeed found a way to make edge lit displays mirror a full array panel. My eyes weren't deceiving me.

Wow, sounds like Samsung have nailed it this year

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well Robert Zohn posted up his mini review
Quote:
Gamma was easily set to 2.3 for Night (movie mode) and day was set at 2.18 in the standard mode. In the movie mode, where we calibrated for night viewing, the Gamma is flat across all luminance levels. For day we used the Standard mode and the gamma is excellent with a slight bump at the higher luminance levels. BTW, we turned off the energy star.

Peak luminance in movie mode was easily set at 56fl and in the standard mode for daytime viewing 80fl all with clipping the lightest, but we had to drop contrast to 75 to avoid clipping of red.

Full screen black with a 0 signal generated, the Klein meter that can measure down to .0001 measured .0000.

ANSI black with a 5x5 pattern the MLL is .020, but in the standard 4x4 ANSI pattern the MLL .019 so the blacks float up to what would equal to a 4% signal, which is a little more than expected. But of course to the eye with the B&W checker pattern the black squares look 100% black. Also absolutely no edge bleeding in any of the black squares on the 4x4, 5x5 and 10x10 ANSI patterns. With split screen 1/2 black one half white the black measured .017. With a 5% signal on a 10% window we measured outside the window .0013 and .022 in the window with the 5% signal.

The ANSI contrast ratio is 2,949 :1 with the 5x5 pattern.

Screen uniformity was excellent in all primary and secondary colors at all luminance levels.

Detail is exceptional, I would assume it's due to nice flat gamma. Color and detail is on par with the very best PDP, including the mighty Kuro.

Looks great! Well black and contrast could be better smile.gif

edit: not sure if I'm allowed to post links to other forums
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post #1271 of 3705 Old 03-15-2013, 12:28 PM
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Wow, really nice showing by Samsung. They've been kind of backsliding last couple of years.

Looks like it will come down between the 64"F8500 (plasma) and 65"F8000 for me. I guess we can thank OLED woes for forcing Samsung and Panny to squeeze the last bit of performance out of LCD and plasma.
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post #1272 of 3705 Old 03-15-2013, 12:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cmay91472 View Post

Ken, I'm not totally shocked to hear this as I expected the F8000 to be a nice display. However, I WILL BE shocked if we can say the same thing about the 60 and 65 inch models though in a couple of months.

Not so sure now about the 60" & 65" models cmay. I'll no longer be surprised if they perform comparably. I will say there are some posters here that will be shocked by the results of the 55" 8000. I think many doubted any edge lit design, regardless of size, could perform like this.

Is it up to Sharp Elite levels from the standpoint of MLL? Not sure, but I bet it's not far off.

That's why I said it's foolish to prejudge a new design sight unseen.

I'm very happy that Samsung has apparently raised the bar on this tech. smile.gif
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post #1273 of 3705 Old 03-15-2013, 12:35 PM
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Looks like it will come down between the 64"F8500 (plasma) and 65"F8000 for me.

That's exactly where I am at this point.
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post #1274 of 3705 Old 03-15-2013, 12:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crankyMF View Post

well Robert Zohn posted up his mini review
Looks great! Well black and contrast could be better smile.gif

As is often true, you have to factor in the numbers as one aspect of perceived performance. As Robert and his ISF tech said, the picture is just stunning. Let me add this before some of the plasma guys pipe in, they did not say 'For an LED it looked superb', they said for any panel it looked superb.

My encounters with the F8000 did nothing to make me feel differently than Robert or Ed. smile.gif
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Makes me more eager to see the 75" pricing. Will it be reasonably inline with the other F8000 models or based off the gouge that is the ES9000...
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post #1276 of 3705 Old 03-15-2013, 12:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

That's exactly where I am at this point.

I just have this gut feeling that banding will still be a major problem compared to the equivalent Sony, and that if the F8500 "pops" as much as you mentioned to me, then that could be the real winner in that size class for 2013.
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post #1277 of 3705 Old 03-15-2013, 12:48 PM
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That could well be cmay, but I think it's great that the number of great choices in panels continues to increase. We needed something to cushion the blow after the Sharp Elite's departure.

As to whether or not the larger Samsungs suffer from significant banding, time will tell. But Samsung has already surprised many of us, so who knows?
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post #1278 of 3705 Old 03-15-2013, 12:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

As is often true, you have to factor in the numbers as one aspect of perceived performance. As Robert and his ISF tech said, the picture is just stunning. Let me add this before some of the plasma guys pipe in, they did not say 'For an LED it looked superb', they said for any panel it looked superb.

My encounters with the F8000 did nothing to make me feel differently than Robert or Ed. smile.gif

Plasma's are great but, when you look at PDP and LCD panels with their pros and cons - I guess F8000 is a winner IMO. No IR, no babysitting with the set smile.gif Plug it in and enjoy. Unless Panny will fix IR issues this year, tho I doubt that it will happen.
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I agree Cranky. I'll sacrifice a tiny hit in MLL in return for a much brighter display that has zero worries. Visually, if the black levels are very close, the much brighter luminance values of LED can rule the day for many.

With that said, I'm still looking forward to the F8500, but I do still have concerns about IR and burn-in potential for such a bright plasma.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

I just spoke with Robert from VE. It looks like my perceptions of the F8000 were correct. He had Ed Johnson up to his store to have the F8000 ISF'd. The bottom line is that Ed was stunned by the display. He was sure it was a full array panel, the black levels were that good. Additionally, there was no flashlighting, screen uniformity was great, gamma was flat across all luminance levels and color & detail were right up there with the Kuro.

It appears Samsung has indeed found a way to make edge lit displays mirror a full array panel. My eyes weren't deceiving me.

well now that may make my decision that much harder between the f8500 and f8k. now if the 8500 hits a homerun w/ them as well..i applaud Samsung all the way.wink.gif

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What's MLL?
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post #1282 of 3705 Old 03-15-2013, 01:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gweempose View Post

What's MLL?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Display_contrast

or in simple terms:black level of the display...

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Originally Posted by gweempose View Post

What's MLL?

minimum luminance level

how black it goes
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post #1284 of 3705 Old 03-15-2013, 02:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by airgas1998 View Post


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Display_contrast

or in simple terms:black level of the display...

Thanks!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post


I'll sacrifice a tiny hit in MLL in return for a much brighter display that has zero worries. Visually, if the black levels are very close, the much brighter luminance values of LED can rule the day for many.

To me, the main advantage that PDPs still have over LCDs is motion handling. LCDs have made great strides in black levels, but they are still inferior in this one category. I have two LCDs and two PDPs in my house, so I think I'm pretty unbiased when I make this claim.
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post #1285 of 3705 Old 03-15-2013, 02:59 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crankyMF View Post

Plasma's are great but, when you look at PDP and LCD panels with their pros and cons - I guess F8000 is a winner IMO. No IR, no babysitting with the set smile.gif Plug it in and enjoy. Unless Panny will fix IR issues this year, tho I doubt that it will happen.

I never babysit my plasma nor suffer any image retention.... I don't see that as a con, but.....
Quote:
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I agree Cranky. I'll sacrifice a tiny hit in MLL in return for a much brighter display that has zero worries. Visually, if the black levels are very close, the much brighter luminance values of LED can rule the day for many.

With that said, I'm still looking forward to the F8500, but I do still have concerns about IR and burn-in potential for such a bright plasma.

... I would like something brighter sometimes.... Of course, I'd also like to maintain the 4800:1 ANSI of my VT50, not drop to 3000:1, like the F8000... That's a substantial fall off....

I realize, Ken, you're just talking top of mind, but the idea that the brightness of the Samsung F8500 makes it more prone to "problems" is suspect. The nature of the changes to get it there doesn't suggest anything that ought to cause more problems with respect to image retention. And burn-in is just nonsense given phosphor life....

That said, Robert gets a true 80 ft/L in daytime mode on that F8000. If the new plasma manages a true 60, that'd be stunning (keep in mind that plasmas get whacked by ABL so when they are "calibrated to x" that's often a bit deceptive because on the brightest scenes, they aren't that bright.)
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Thanks!
To me, the main advantage that PDPs still have over LCDs is motion handling. LCDs have made great strides in black levels, but they are still inferior in this one category. I have two LCDs and two PDPs in my house, so I think I'm pretty unbiased when I make this claim.

I have one of each and yes, the motion looks better on the plasma. But for me, it's still the off-axis thing more than anything. Most of the motion problem can be tamped down on an LCD by getting rid of as much frame interpolation as possible and as much of its silly "improvement" tech as you can shut off. Not all of the difference goes away, but it closes the gap.
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There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working.
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post #1286 of 3705 Old 03-15-2013, 02:59 PM
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Well after spending 2.5 hours with this TV at BBY, they were just turning it on and I had to help them set it up since I knew more about the TV then they did which is sad. What was worse is they could not get the in-store feed to play on the television! After I went through and played with the TV for 20 minutes, I found their feed channel. Afterwards I went through the whole TV, setting and all. I can tell you this, what everyone here said is true, uniformity, flashlighting, has been improved. I stood and literally looked and played with this TV for 2 hours and I am very impressed with what I saw. I went back and forth to the ES8000 they had in the store and back to this model. Picture clarity has improved a tiny bit, but it was not much that I could tell from the naked eye, but what will make the F8000 a winner is the elimination of flashlighting, clouding, and uniformity issues with the ES8000 I saw in story. I played with the ES8000 as well and made sure the setting were the same on both TVs. I played with the T.V. so long that I kind of know all of the menu setting on the TV. The remote that comes with it was the touch remote and after you get use to it, it is kind of cool. It felt good in the hand. The remote track pad is also a button as well which was neat as I was tapping it like it was a mouse pad thinking it was totally touch.

The Cinema Black worked great with the store lighting, in a dark room, that remains to be seen. I did walk up real close to it while The Hobbit was playing and say the black bars light up a little, but no flashlighting. I was hoping not to see that, but it could have been a feed and connection thing as well. But I can tell you this, it would not deter me from buying this TV. My current 55D8000 I can tell has some vertical banding. The F8000 did not have squat. So I can tell you now that this will be my next TV once the 60" makes it way into the market. The top TV in the pictures is the 55F8000, the lower is an ES7500.




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post #1287 of 3705 Old 03-15-2013, 03:02 PM
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Quote:
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I stand corrected. smile.gif


RE: the conversation above about the Amazon Video On Demand app being included in Samsung's SmartHub:

As well the ES8000 series has it.

At first it was not included on SmartHub, then Samsung and Amazon came to some sort of agreement to include it.

I've spoken to Amazon's VOD dept. on this. The manufacturers are in charge of determining whether or not a particular set will get Amazon VOD or not. Amazon will basically make it available to all comers.

I also called Samsung on it when I first got my ES8000 and spoke to their second level technical people - their delay was doing some testing with that version of SmartHub and the ES8000 series.

I would imagine that the F8000 series has it - can someone confirm?
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post #1288 of 3705 Old 03-15-2013, 03:08 PM
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Also quick question:

What was the original release date said to be for the UN55F8000?

Seems like it came out early.

Trying to deduce whether or not we'll see the 60 and for me the 65 out early...
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post #1289 of 3705 Old 03-15-2013, 03:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JSteel View Post

Well after spending 2.5 hours with this TV at BBY, they were just turning it on and I had to help them set it up since I knew more about the TV then they did which is sad. What was worse is they could not get the in-store feed to play on the television! After I went through and played with the TV for 20 minutes, I found their feed channel. Afterwards I went through the whole TV, setting and all. I can tell you this, what everyone here said is true, uniformity, flashlighting, has been improved. I stood and literally looked and played with this TV for 2 hours and I am very impressed with what I saw. I went back and forth to the ES8000 they had in the store and back to this model. Picture clarity has improved a tiny bit, but it was not much that I could tell from the naked eye, but what will make the F8000 a winner is the elimination of flashlighting, clouding, and uniformity issues with the ES8000 I saw in story.

It's very hard to see flashlighting/uniformity issues in regular lighting though. I looked at the ES8000 a month ago in the store and didn't see anything. When I got it home and turned the lights off it was a different story. I know everyone says the F8000 is great especially in terms of screen uniformity and I'm sure it is but it's hard to see those anomalies unless you're in total darkness. Glad you could tell the difference in PQ over the ES8000 though. Did you happen to see what panel it was?
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post #1290 of 3705 Old 03-15-2013, 03:52 PM
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The F8000 is now officially on Samsung's US website, as is the F7100. However, the MSRP's seem to be higher than originally posted. I can't see the price for the 55" but the 46" is $2449 instead of the original $2199.

http://www.samsung.com/us/video/tvs/UN55F8000BFXZA
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