Samsung F8000 -- 2013 Flagship Models - Page 67 - AVS Forum
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post #1981 of 3705 Old 03-26-2013, 04:44 PM
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Originally Posted by cmay91472 View Post

Yes. Same here. Early owners have confirmed that both edge enhancer and shadow detail were removed with the first major firmware update. However, the US did not have black enhancer removed like the UK versions.

Samsung is definitely shady about how they update their television. On my es8000 I had it set to not update automatically and one day I turn it on and it starts updating. I check the settings again afterwards and sure enough autoupdate is still set to off. First thing I did was delete all my network info out of the tv. Some others noticed the autoupdate happening without prompting as well. That type of practice is 'hacking' like since we explicitly set the setting to not do that.
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post #1982 of 3705 Old 03-26-2013, 04:54 PM
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Originally Posted by mo949 View Post

Samsung is definitely shady about how they update their television. On my es8000 I had it set to not update automatically and one day I turn it on and it starts updating. I check the settings again afterwards and sure enough autoupdate is still set to off. First thing I did was delete all my network info out of the tv. Some others noticed the autoupdate happening without prompting as well. That type of practice is 'hacking' like since we explicitly set the setting to not do that.

+1

That's why I requested one of these initial owners to inventory all of the picture options etc.... so if/when they do a similar thing with the F8000 via firmware update, owners will at least know what is missing.
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post #1983 of 3705 Old 03-26-2013, 06:52 PM
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Originally Posted by cmay91472 View Post

Yes. Same here. Early owners have confirmed that both edge enhancer and shadow detail were removed with the first major firmware update. However, the US did not have black enhancer removed like the UK versions.

According to this link from Samsung for an older model:

https://support-us.samsung.com/cyber/popup/iframe/pop_troubleshooting_fr.jsp?idx=161759&modelname=UN46C9000ZF&modelcode=&session_id=NJ2H4hpMLRzlGdj4RzLXr0K8VYwppbvcSQyjslnTxmD1RWX8QFQq!640189940!1761676348!7501!-1!-944161233!1761676444!7501!-1!1296659975846

Shadow Detail basically seemed to control CE-Dimming. That's what it looks like to me based on their description of what Shadow Detail did. That's why I was really hoping to see that setting this year, but alas, it is gone for good I guess.

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post #1984 of 3705 Old 03-26-2013, 06:54 PM
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Originally Posted by cmay91472 View Post

+1

That's why I requested one of these initial owners to inventory all of the picture options etc.... so if/when they do a similar thing with the F8000 via firmware update, owners will at least know what is missing.

They also have very shady notes on what their updates do. They list some stuff early on under changes, then use that same list for the rest of the lifespan of the tv, with no addional changes made to the changelog, so you never know what they are doing to your set. Very shady. My media players all give a detailed changelog with every update.

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post #1985 of 3705 Old 03-26-2013, 07:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Top_Cat View Post

My credibility for a person that has been proven to be a liar (he said in his Amazon "review" that he owns the F8000, when he admits later in another forum that in fact he doesn´t) and that was banned from this site for good reason is less than "0".

Every single professional review states that the F8000 is the best Samsung LCD yet. But hey everybody is free to believe in conspiracy theories even if they have no proof whatsoever to back up their accusations.

The funny part is that when Tonya Norway totally debunks his conspiracy theories (without mentioning him specifically) regarding "firmware updates that makes the picture of the E8000 worst so that F8000 picture looks better", Anthony answers "+1" and even thanks Tonya´s post (message 390, 393). Unbelievable.

http://www.avforums.com/forums/lcd-led-lcd-tvs/1754269-samsung-ue-es8000-owners-thread-part-11-a-13.html

What Anthony is doing is the most blatant trolling I have seen in my life.

But again everybody is free to think what they want. I personally don´t buy it.

Regards


Reading all the posts on Amazon I think Anthony wants to be the Ralph Nader of the television world.
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post #1986 of 3705 Old 03-26-2013, 08:07 PM
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Samsung is all smoke and mirrors. The ES panel is the same as the new "high end" products. It's just marketing. This can be objectively verified. You can take a Ford F150 and describe it in a more elegant fashion, but it is still an F150. Get real.
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post #1987 of 3705 Old 03-26-2013, 08:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Pannus View Post

Samsung is all smoke and mirrors. The ES panel is the same as the new "high end" products. It's just marketing. This can be objectively verified. You can take a Ford F150 and describe it in a more elegant fashion, but it is still an F150. Get real.

Have you objectively verified the F8000? If not, then why make such a statement?

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post #1988 of 3705 Old 03-26-2013, 08:13 PM
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Originally Posted by JimShaw View Post

Have you objectively verified the F8000? If not, then why make such a statement?

Don't ask logical questions Jim. wink.gif
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post #1989 of 3705 Old 03-26-2013, 08:26 PM
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The proof is in the pudding. I said there would never be a fix for the cyan issue with the Sharp Elite, and there never was. In the end, the ES panels and the new F8000's will have the same black levels and color accuracy. No rebuttal needed.... time will prove my assertion is correct.
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post #1990 of 3705 Old 03-26-2013, 08:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimShaw View Post

Have you objectively verified the F8000? If not, then why make such a statement?

Why would you even bother posting this? You already know the answer as it is no big secret.
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post #1991 of 3705 Old 03-26-2013, 08:56 PM
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So all this reviews and a little research samsung is relabeling the F8000 with a new cosmetic look but is actually a ES8000? I'm asking cause not sure what everybody is mad about lol
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post #1992 of 3705 Old 03-26-2013, 09:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Pannus View Post

The proof is in the pudding. I said there would never be a fix for the cyan issue with the Sharp Elite, and there never was. In the end, the ES panels and the new F8000's will have the same black levels and color accuracy. No rebuttal needed.... time will prove my assertion is correct.

Your assertion is already disproven if one is to believe the posted reviews so far... No rebuttal needed.

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post #1993 of 3705 Old 03-26-2013, 09:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Pannus View Post

Samsung is all smoke and mirrors. The ES panel is the same as the new "high end" products. It's just marketing. This can be objectively verified. You can take a Ford F150 and describe it in a more elegant fashion, but it is still an F150. Get real.

Prove it. Or get real yourself. rolleyes.gif

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post #1994 of 3705 Old 03-26-2013, 09:22 PM
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Originally Posted by moonhawk View Post

Prove it. Or get real yourself. rolleyes.gif

OMG!!!!!!!!!!

Just stop it moon hawk and dad. Just stop fueling the fire everytime this topic comes up. It's bordering ridiculous.

As stated just a few posts ago.... Why even bother posting as we all know the same answers we each post over and over. It's almost to the point of who gives a flying f$&! either way.
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post #1995 of 3705 Old 03-26-2013, 09:45 PM
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Originally Posted by cmay91472 View Post

OMG!!!!!!!!!!

Just stop it moon hawk and dad. Just stop fueling the fire everytime this topic comes up. It's bordering ridiculous.

As stated just a few posts ago.... Why even bother posting as we all know the same answers we each post over and over. It's almost to the point of who gives a flying f$&! either way.

No - what fuels the fire are the continued posts comparing the es8000 to the f8000 by people who have not owned or seen both sets in person. Can we move on from the freakin Es8000? Yes - i get comparisons to last years model will be made blah blah blah. But it seems as if the software/hardware differences between the two have been beat to death as much as we can... Lets move on.

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post #1996 of 3705 Old 03-26-2013, 09:56 PM
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Originally Posted by dad0118 View Post

No - what fuels the fire are the continued posts comparing the es8000 to the f8000 by people who have not owned or seen both sets in person. Can we move on from the freakin Es8000? Yes - i get comparisons to last years model will be made blah blah blah. But it seems as if the software/hardware differences between the two have been beat to death as much as we can... Lets move on.

So if it has been beaten to death..., why continue to respond (referring to all of us regular posters) everytime someone recycles the same topic? Trust me, I love disagreeing with ya... but we need to find something new to disagree on as it isn't even amusing to try to rebuttal our posts on this topic anymore.
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post #1997 of 3705 Old 03-26-2013, 10:02 PM
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Originally Posted by cmay91472 View Post

So if it has been beaten to death..., why continue to respond (referring to all of us regular posters) everytime someone recycles the same topic? Trust me, I love disagreeing with ya... but we need to find something new to disagree on as it isn't even amusing to try to rebuttal our posts on this topic anymore.

Fair enough

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post #1998 of 3705 Old 03-26-2013, 10:15 PM
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The only comparison I want to make between the ES and the F models is whether the F8000 will have any remnants of the banding issues that were so common with the 65 ES. That's the reason I didn't pull the trigger on the ES again because I want the 65 model. The one I had purchased had to be returned. So, I spoke with a local BB Magnolia rep today and was told that it received a F8000 last week and was up on display (hoping I wasn't hosed) even though the BB website indicates that my area (San Diego) wouldn't be receiving the F8000 until April 2 and thereafter. I will confirm this tomorrow. The rep also said that it had received a 64 F8500 and it would be on display tomorrow. Unfortunately, the two models will not be displayed side by side as one is located at one end of the room and the other will be at the opposite end. But, I think it will be close enough to decide which one is the most compelling and the one I like the most. As with some of the folks here, I believe the PQ is in the eye of the beholder and not necessarily in calc'd numbers. I certainly understand that the numbers carry a significant weight value - perhaps, not "all" the weight. Whichever is most pleasing to my eye, I will buy (assuming the F8000 is without the banding issues). This brings me to the point to ask the guru's here if there is a setting or a means to be able to discern if there is banding with the panel or not. I'm uncertain as to how to place the screen in an all white mode. I plan on looking at these models either tomorrow or Thursday; time permitting.
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post #1999 of 3705 Old 03-26-2013, 10:50 PM
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So, assuming that everything positive said about the F8000 as well as the F8500 is verified in reviews and that sometime this year both can be had for slightly under $3K. What ya gonna buy?
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post #2000 of 3705 Old 03-26-2013, 11:20 PM
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The only comparison I want to make between the ES and the F models is whether the F8000 will have any remnants of the banding issues that were so common with the 65 ES. That's the reason I didn't pull the trigger on the ES again because I want the 65 model. The one I had purchased had to be returned. So, I spoke with a local BB Magnolia rep today and was told that it received a F8000 last week and was up on display (hoping I wasn't hosed) even though the BB website indicates that my area (San Diego) wouldn't be receiving the F8000 until April 2 and thereafter. I will confirm this tomorrow. The rep also said that it had received a 64 F8500 and it would be on display tomorrow. Unfortunately, the two models will not be displayed side by side as one is located at one end of the room and the other will be at the opposite end. But, I think it will be close enough to decide which one is the most compelling and the one I like the most. As with some of the folks here, I believe the PQ is in the eye of the beholder and not necessarily in calc'd numbers. I certainly understand that the numbers carry a significant weight value - perhaps, not "all" the weight. Whichever is most pleasing to my eye, I will buy (assuming the F8000 is without the banding issues). This brings me to the point to ask the guru's here if there is a setting or a means to be able to discern if there is banding with the panel or not. I'm uncertain as to how to place the screen in an all white mode. I plan on looking at these models either tomorrow or Thursday; time permitting.

The banding is also on the d8000 65 inch, but more tolerable. Given the Samsung 65 inch track record it would be optimistic to hope for the next 65 to be much better.
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post #2001 of 3705 Old 03-27-2013, 12:05 AM
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So, assuming that everything positive said about the F8000 as well as the F8500 is verified in reviews and that sometime this year both can be had for slightly under $3K. What ya gonna buy?

Ha!

That´s a tough one rolleyes.gif....... Every day i keep wondering the same...... Kind of like a "roller coaster" feeling, with ups and downs (F8000-F8500).

Despite professional reviews, users opinions, forum members thoughts (i reckon i´m a big fan of Ken Ross´s opinions redface.gif. Really trust him.) which i value (and thank) a lot, in the end my eyes (and wallet....) will tell and decide, fortunately there is a new place not very far were i live (well not very near either but it will be worth a trip) and there i will have the opportunity to view the F8000, F8500 and the VT60 (my top list. Sadly the HX950 is out of my budget), in different viewing conditions.

In theory we might not buy the best set (according to the experts), but at the end of the day, who cares as long as you're happy?

That´s my little advice (unfortunately some people will not have the opportunity to view the sets in person) ....... IMHO buy what looks better to you, and not get too carried by numbers or ratings .....

Regards
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post #2002 of 3705 Old 03-27-2013, 01:53 AM
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Originally Posted by arenaman View Post

In the UK the very first ES8K settings posted up online by users included black enhancer and edge enhancer, even shadow detail then no mention of them since after the first FW update around 30th March 2012

These were largely pointless features that no calibration report I'd ever seen recommended using though.
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post #2003 of 3705 Old 03-27-2013, 03:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Pannus View Post

The proof is in the pudding. I said there would never be a fix for the cyan issue with the Sharp Elite, and there never was. In the end, the ES panels and the new F8000's will have the same black levels and color accuracy. No rebuttal needed.... time will prove my assertion is correct.

Sorry guys, i need to respond to this guy since he was one who would often post in the Elite threads with the same 'throw cold water in the face of owners' tone.

Your 'assertion' has already been disproved. Every review points to a very significant increase in PQ.

As for the Elite, yes, there was never a fix for a problem that virtually no owner sees, or very rarely sees or is bothered by.

As for your convoluted logic, do you really think if you get the first question right on an exam, that guarantees you'll get the next question correct?

Am I the only one that scratches my head as to why guys like this venture into threads for products they have no interest in, only to throw dispersions at it?
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post #2004 of 3705 Old 03-27-2013, 04:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Top_Cat View Post


Despite professional reviews, users opinions, forum members thoughts (i reckon i´m a big fan of Ken Ross´s opinions redface.gif. Really trust him.) which i value (and thank) a lot, in the end my eyes (and wallet....) will tell and decide, fortunately there is a new place not very far were i live (well not very near either but it will be worth a trip) and there i will have the opportunity to view the F8000, F8500 and the VT60 (my top list. Sadly the HX950 is out of my budget), in different viewing conditions.
Regards

I don't know Top_Cat, I don't trust that Ken Ross guy as much as you. wink.gif. Seriously, thanks for the kind words. smile.gif

I can't recall being more confused about buying a display than this year. I think if you look at it objectively, that's a good thing in that it means there are a lot of great displays this year.

I was hoping that the F8500 would be the best of LED and plasma, with great brightness and black levels. It may still be, but Chad's review put a bit of a damper on the black levels. Although very good, they're not 'best ever' or even at the level of a VT50. How visible is this? I haven't seen one, so I have no idea. But brightness does appear to be excellent.

With that said, it's still a plasma and must be cared for more than an LED. The plasma guys can argue this until they're blue in the face, but it is simply an undeniable fact that you don't have to exercise the same care with LED that you do with plasma. I'd have no problem doing that, but the display would have to produce the best picture to my eyes to make that exercise worthwhile. My wife watches the USA channel for hours since she likes the NCIS reruns. I don't give it a second thought with my LED, but I think I would with a plasma and that USA logo burning away.

I'm hoping to get up to Robert's store on Friday to look at his calibrated F8000, 64" F8500 and VT50 sitting in a row. Kevin Miller will be completing the calibration on these displays on Thursday. The only problem is Robert's store is quite bright, but the rear of the store is dimmer. I might actually bring a blanket to shield some light. I saw Kevin do that when he ISF'd one of my displays in my bright room. Yeah, I need help!

The other issue is, as cmay has often said (and he knows Samsung panels far better than I do), there is little similarity between the issues of a 55" 8000 and a 65" in regards to banding. Since we don't have the 65" out yet, that will remain a mystery. And, lets not forget about the VT and ZT60, more contenders!

My head hurts.
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post #2005 of 3705 Old 03-27-2013, 04:29 AM
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I think you're still cheaper than what we pay though, what's the 55" F8000 price? We pay the equivalent of $3850 (canadian and US as the difference is negligible) and don't even get the same features.

Yeah, your prices are WHACKED !!!!, & so is running 50 Hz in PAL countries,the PAL regions really need to switch to 60Hz since the TV's are designed to run better that way.I thought EU was crazy with prices but UK takes the cake.

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post #2006 of 3705 Old 03-27-2013, 05:02 AM
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Seriously, thanks for the kind words. smile.gif

My pleasure smile.gif

Keep up the good work (very) really helpful and informative.

Best Regards
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post #2007 of 3705 Old 03-27-2013, 05:41 AM
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Seriously, thanks for the kind words. smile.gif

My pleasure smile.gif

Keep up the good work (very) really helpful and informative.

Best Regards

Have to agree... I have known Ken for over 10 years (met him at the Jersey Shore Shootout) and value his observations and recommendations...

my opinion only of course smile.gif
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post #2008 of 3705 Old 03-27-2013, 06:08 AM
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Hey Ken,
I have been kinda Idle on these forums, since we were beating down the Boo Birds on the Elite Forum. I just purchased a Un55ES8000 to replace my last Kuro in a Bedroom. The Elite converted me from a Plasma man to a LED guy. Just my preference, and the options of wirelessly being able to support the Internet functions, was just too good to pass on the Kuro's. I am liking the better whites and over all detail I get with some of the Newer LED technology. I used to hate the LCD/LED displays with all their problems, but they have come a long way. I wish some of these Boo Birds would let us know what Displays they own so we could tell them everything that's wrong with their display, and there will be something that's not perfect I Guarantee IT. Anyway take a good hard look at the new Samsung Displays when you go to Robert's Store, you might be pleasantly Surprised at how fast their catching up to the Elite and sometimes bettering it in areas.
Remember It's Like water off a Ducks Back, with some of the comments posted on AVS.

Nothing's Perfect So Stop Expecting It ! Glenee

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post #2009 of 3705 Old 03-27-2013, 06:27 AM
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Have to agree... I have known Ken for over 10 years (met him at the Jersey Shore Shootout) and value his observations and recommendations...

my opinion only of course smile.gif

Thanks Mark.

Welcome back Glenee. One thing you said confused me and I'm assuming you meant to say "too good to pass on the Samsungs"?

Yup, I agree, LEDs have come a long long way. I think some are still finding it hard to acknowledge just how far they've come and some still minimize plasma's remaining issues. All of these techs have shortcomings, but we just have to find the shortcomings we can live with the best.

I think the funniest remarks from the naysayers are from those that say "yeah, some of the LEDs have great black levels, but they use 'trickery' to get them". Well, the entire concept of "TV" is 'trickery', so what's the point? This is an obvious reference to the different dimming strategies the manufacturer's use to enhance the native black levels of LEDs.

But this is certainly shaping up to be a great year for all these display techs. smile.gif
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post #2010 of 3705 Old 03-27-2013, 06:37 AM
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I meant Too good not to give up the Kuros. I now own 3 LED's Elite, Samsung, and Sony XBR.
The Sony is my least Favorite of the Three.
But I hear they have some great things in the works, have to wait and see.

Nothing's Perfect So Stop Expecting It ! Glenee

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