Samsung F8000 -- 2013 Flagship Models - Page 70 - AVS Forum
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post #2071 of 3705 Old 03-28-2013, 12:58 PM
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Originally Posted by cmay91472 View Post

Dad0118, with all due respect.....

1046 firmware enabled the dimming of the top and bottom zones of the TV in movie mode. It did improve the ES8000 image. The ES8000 was always capable of cinema black, but Samsung just chose to disable it. It's their choice and right to do so since they never sold the TV with that feature, but I do have an issue with features like edge enhancement and shadow detail being removed via firmware without notifying the end user. Do you think that is fair or right? If they had a disclaimer telling users those features would be removed, then I would not have an issue.

In regards to "following Anthony around". Fine, you just happen to be in the same place at the same time. Regardless of what he posts, why can't you be civil and just ignore him instead of always fueling the flames with a post directed at trying to call him a liar. We get it, you don't agree with him. But your constant bickering with him via posts in public forums is tiring and old. You say let's just focus on the topic at hand, then do so and stop instigating.

Lastly, I said you can't, nor can anyone else prove or disprove that the F8000 is indeed the ES8000 repackaged with full user control over dimming. I'm starting to think you don't actually read these posts as you are so quick to try to get your points across.... and yes..... the ES8000 did have improved uniformity because of an update as the 1046 enabled the cinema black feature as stated above (although it is not user controlled) for movie mode so you kind of contradicted yourself within your own post.

They surely have a disclaimer somewhere that says something like -

"We reserve the right to remove or change features without notice"

They can do whatever they want as can any other company as long as they put a disclaimer and don't falsely advertise.

It doesn't seem fair but hey.
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post #2072 of 3705 Old 03-28-2013, 01:03 PM
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Originally Posted by pred1973 View Post

I have no illusions about plasma being perfect, its just happens to be more suitable for MY needs. I have a darkened room so brightness has not ever been an issue, I watch 90% movies so IR is a complete non-factor for me. The volume I watch movies at through my 7.1 setup eliminates any buzzing that might be present (not that I ever heard it unless the tv was on mute and I was closer than 2 ft away). To be completely honest the only things that could be improved from MY perspective is the heat/energy use. My darkened room gets pretty cool in the winter (I'm in Canada, so the cold weather season can run from November to March :P ) and if the door was closed, and I was watching a movie with a runtime over 2 hours, you would be happy to crack a window at the end. The energy use thing is a two-edged sword for sure. Yes I'd like to be a little more planet friendly, but I also acknowledge that lowering the energy consumption likely also raises the need for aggressive ABL.

Really my beef with LED/LCD is what I see as the race to the bottom. Quality of the image is NOT the most important factor it seems when it comes to that tech. Lets make it thinner, lets put in a bunch of stuff that has NOTHING to do with actually watching tv or movies, lets put in voice control or motion controls. This is not directed at anyone here, but I have to wonder at the meatheads who drive these choices (I want a computer for surfing youtube but with a built in tv, I don't care how the tv looks as long as I can watch stupid cat tricks or some guy get hit in the balls without getting off my couch and going to my desk, mentality it seems....). Full array, local dimmed LED/LCDS offered excellent PQ, yet it seems that there is not one of those available this year. Even the Sony X900 series has gone to edge lit for the new series coming out soon.

Letterbox bars can cause image retention/burn in though.
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post #2073 of 3705 Old 03-28-2013, 01:58 PM
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Originally Posted by HaRd2BeAr View Post

Letterbox bars can cause image retention/burn in though.

True, but I'm fortunate as I have small kids and a lot of their movies/shows are the 1.85:1 aspect ratio (which goes corner to corner), so between what they watch, the 10% of OTA HD watching my wife does on that tv, it covers whatever discrepancy in the 2.35 or 2.40 aspect ratio stuff I might watch. I paid a bit of attention to it like 3 tvs ago because I was paranoid about it after hearing horror stories about IR. The worst case for me was before my daughter was born and I had an operation that kept me at home for a few months and I was playing COD:MW for like 10 hours a day for those 2 months, and I did see a very faint retention of the static status display on solid colored screens towards the last week or so of that 2 months. Ran screen wipe/slides overnight a couple of times and it totally cleared up. Was a little embarrassing having my wife walk into the room with me on my hands and knees staring at the bottom corners of the blank screen squinting, then looking away, then staring some more trying to see any IR. She thought I was going a little stir-crazy.
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post #2074 of 3705 Old 03-28-2013, 02:03 PM
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Originally Posted by HaRd2BeAr View Post

Letterbox bars can cause image retention/burn in though.

If you watch exclusively 2.35:1 content, yes

If you watch movies and regular tv, such image retention is non existent on modern plasmas
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post #2075 of 3705 Old 03-28-2013, 02:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

Keep in mind it's much easier to get things right on a 37" panel than a 60"-65". It also sounds like they used a different panel on that Vizio that enhances viewing angle as opposed to contrast ratio.

Yes, different type of panel, and full backlit, not edge-lit. But that's part of my point - companies have abandoned the far-superior rear-backlighting in favor of the cheaper edge-lighting, and it's not a change for the better.


I think most consumers have no idea there is such a drastic change in uniformity due to these thin sets - until they buy them and start finding out like I did last year. Most consumers figure if everybody is selling these kind of sets, the tech must be good.

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post #2076 of 3705 Old 03-28-2013, 02:20 PM
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Originally Posted by mo949 View Post

Eagle2 I had that same thought when I bought my set last year. I spent over 3k for a tv that couldn't satisfy me as much as the cheapest visio at costco. If only there was a practical 1080p CRT available....

If there was a 1080p 3D CRT, I'd be all over it.

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post #2077 of 3705 Old 03-28-2013, 02:41 PM
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Originally Posted by winston9332 View Post

If you watch exclusively 2.35:1 content, yes

If you watch movies and regular tv, such image retention is non existent on modern plasmas
Hmmm, see the IR thread in this forum. Many would disagree with you that it's non existent.
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post #2078 of 3705 Old 03-28-2013, 03:35 PM
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Originally Posted by leftovers View Post

So after skimming 69 pages.....I think my LN55A950 still remains one of if not the best LCD Samsung has produced. Yes?

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Originally Posted by airgas1998 View Post

One of yes, but not "the best" i have the 8500 in my sun room still going strong.



The A950 and B8500 are the two best LCD's Samsung has ever produced. It's too bad they didn't settle up with Sharp after they lost the lawsuit and keep producing rear dimmers. Instead they dropped the line and concentrated on the edge lit hocus pocus that drives everyone around here crazy.
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post #2079 of 3705 Old 03-28-2013, 03:43 PM
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Originally Posted by ti-triodes View Post


The A950 and B8500 are the two best LCD's Samsung has ever produced. It's too bad they didn't settle up with Sharp after they lost the lawsuit and keep producing rear dimmers. Instead they dropped the line and concentrated on the edge lit hocus pocus that drives everyone around here crazy.

+2, This is where Samsung LED went wrong. Imagine where Samsung's full-array local-dimming LED tech would be now.
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post #2080 of 3705 Old 03-28-2013, 04:16 PM
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Originally Posted by pred1973 View Post

To be completely honest the only things that could be improved from MY perspective is the heat/energy use. My darkened room gets pretty cool in the winter (I'm in Canada, so the cold weather season can run from November to March :P ) and if the door was closed, and I was watching a movie with a runtime over 2 hours, you would be happy to crack a window at the end. The energy use thing is a two-edged sword for sure. Yes I'd like to be a little more planet friendly, but I also acknowledge that lowering the energy consumption likely also raises the need for aggressive ABL.

Now this actually surprises me. My Pro151 could and did warm up our living room noticeably, but from what I've read, I thought that the newer plasmas were much more efficient and didn't begin to produce the heat of my older Kuro.
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post #2081 of 3705 Old 03-28-2013, 04:18 PM
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Originally Posted by eagle_2 View Post


I think most consumers have no idea there is such a drastic change in uniformity due to these thin sets - until they buy them and start finding out like I did last year. Most consumers figure if everybody is selling these kind of sets, the tech must be good.

Although it does seem that the F8000 has excellent uniformity despite its thin design. So maybe Samsung solved that issue.
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post #2082 of 3705 Old 03-28-2013, 04:20 PM
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Originally Posted by eagle_2 View Post

If there was a 1080p 3D CRT, I'd be all over it.

Ah, but let me tell you, I don't miss the days of spending hours and hours on convergence. What a pain. And once you were done, you were never really done. Give it a few months and you'd see it drift. Time to reconverge. My wife used to tell me I spent more time on convergence than actually watching the display. This was a 64" Zenith RP HDTV. It was actually a terrific set, but a pain in the butt to converge.

I don't miss that for one second. smile.gif
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post #2083 of 3705 Old 03-28-2013, 04:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

Ah, but let me tell you, I don't miss the days of spending hours and hours on convergence. What a pain. And once you were done, you were never really done. Give it a few months and you'd see it drift. Time to reconverge. My wife used to tell me I spent more time on convergence than actually watching the display. This was a 64" Zenith RP HDTV. It was actually a terrific set, but a pain in the butt to converge.

I don't miss that for one second. smile.gif

in 11 years I only had to do convergence and geometry corrections twice (outside of the normal menu) and it was a gorgeous picture on my toshiba. The red gun went out and that's when I downgraded to the es8000. There are CRT projectors capable of producing scans fast enough for 1080p I hear, but don't think they are 3d. Once you get them calibrated they are maintenance free untill you need a new gun - which is kind of simple anyway.
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post #2084 of 3705 Old 03-28-2013, 04:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

Now this actually surprises me. My Pro151 could and did warm up our living room noticeably, but from what I've read, I thought that the newer plasmas were much more efficient and didn't begin to produce the heat of my older Kuro.

I never really noticed it until my recent foray into LCD/LED tv's. Then it was obvious. After a 2 hour movie the room wasn't warm or hot at all, and the only change was the tv. Kind of surprised me actually as I had always thought it was body heat warming an enclosed space because I close the door to block out the light coming from the hallway (and blocking the sound from my wife who doesn't care for near-reference sound levels LOL).
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post #2085 of 3705 Old 03-28-2013, 05:22 PM
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Originally Posted by PiratesCove View Post

+2, This is where Samsung LED went wrong. Imagine where Samsung's full-array local-dimming LED tech would be now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ti-triodes View Post


The A950 and B8500 are the two best LCD's Samsung has ever produced. It's too bad they didn't settle up with Sharp after they lost the lawsuit and keep producing rear dimmers. Instead they dropped the line and concentrated on the edge lit hocus pocus that drives everyone around here crazy.

Haha well what about the A850? smile.gif I just moved that up to my bedroom. It definetly looks nice but when I compared the the 55" f8000, the overall PQ makes me very happy on the F8000. The PQ on the A850 is still amazing though.



On the UK Review they talk about PVR and a hard drive.

"If you have an external hard disk, you can turn the TV into a simple PVR. We used a USB3 2.5in portable drive, which could draw power directly from the USB port without requiring an external power supply. Once formatted, you’ll be able to pause live TV, schedule recordings and rewind live TV, which is handy if you need to take a call in the middle of your favourite TV programme"

If I have a NAS is there an easy way to set up some type of PVR type feature?
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post #2086 of 3705 Old 03-28-2013, 07:14 PM
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Does anyone know yet if the Samsung F8000/8500 can be used with a universal remote via IR if you dont want to use the Bluetooth Smart Remote? As far as I can tell the ES series did but it also came with an additional remote. I understand there is a IR blaster to control other devices however I want to use my Universal IR remote. I looked in all the manuals and spec sheets and dont see anything definitive.

Yes it will work with a universal.
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post #2087 of 3705 Old 03-29-2013, 12:23 AM - Thread Starter
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On the hottest days of summer with my plasma running for hours, it barely got warm. It could certainly not warm any room as it only uses about 300 watts and much of that is used to make light. The days of 600 watt plasmas are long gone.

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working.
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post #2088 of 3705 Old 03-29-2013, 04:58 AM
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Haha well what about the A850? smile.gif I just moved that up to my bedroom. It definetly looks nice but when I compared the the 55" f8000, the overall PQ makes me very happy on the F8000. The PQ on the A850 is still amazing though.

Good to hear as I am looking at the F series as a legacy replacement for my A850. After trying the D and ES series the F looks like a big improvement.
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post #2089 of 3705 Old 03-29-2013, 12:26 PM
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On the hottest days of summer with my plasma running for hours, it barely got warm. It could certainly not warm any room as it only uses about 300 watts and much of that is used to make light. The days of 600 watt plasmas are long gone.

Maybe not 600 watts; but 65" vt50 owners manual specifies rated power of 560w. My 65" vt25 has a rated power of 644w and you can feel the heat from 3 feet away.
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post #2090 of 3705 Old 03-29-2013, 01:49 PM
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hey doesn't anyone know when the 60in f8000 is going come out ? also can someone who has this tv tell me if led motion plus is available on this tv i think they renamed it to led motion clear, does that have to be enable to get the so called 1200 hz ? another thing i was wondering what the default setting for standard were
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post #2091 of 3705 Old 03-29-2013, 03:05 PM
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hey doesn't anyone know when the 60in f8000 is going come out ? also can someone who has this tv tell me if led motion plus is available on this tv i think they renamed it to led motion clear, does that have to be enable to get the so called 1200 hz ? another thing i was wondering what the default setting for standard were

Well, you'd easily be able to find that information on this thread if it weren't for the fact that we are talking about legacy TVs, plasma issues, image retention, and every other imaginable topic except for the F8000...(this is the F8000 thread, right?)

If you take a look on Value Electronics site ( http://un65f8000.com ) you will see that the 60" lists a shipping date as the week of 4/8 - right around the corner, with the 65" and 75" following after that. From what I know they are a trust-worthy Samsung retailer and have their finger on the pulse of distribution dates as good as anyone.

(your other questions need to be answered by someone who actually has the set up and running - and it would be nice to hear some first-hand experience on the F8000)
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post #2092 of 3705 Old 03-29-2013, 04:07 PM
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I notice that Sears has the UN60F8000 listed today on their website. I called Amazon and they do not have any info yet on the 80 inch,but expect it shortly.

J Thomas
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post #2093 of 3705 Old 03-29-2013, 07:50 PM
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I took another quick look at the F8000 tonight in Best Buy, hoping they moved it to a better location than near the ceiling (they didn't). There is now no question in my mind that the set still suffers from some form of CE-Dimming or auto-dimming, because it was plainly visible multiple times during the few minutes I looked. As I mentioned before, the set was of course on demo mode, so the tv-generated sales-pitch menus were popping up all over the edges of the screen, whenever the Best Buy feed would fade to black between clips, those tv-generated menus would dim to a fraction of their regular brightness, and pop back to full brightness as soon as a new clip faded in. This is classic CE-Dimming behavior. The white text, the grey backgrounds of menus, they all dimmed instantly upon a black screen. My girlfriend saw it as well. I don't see how anybody could not see just by walking into any Best Buy and watching the screen for 5 minutes. Just pay attention to what happens to the edge menus that pop in and out in demo mode.

This makes me very nervous. What happened to that new technology that promises keeping the screen deep black without affecting bright areas of the screen? I call shenanigans.

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post #2094 of 3705 Old 03-29-2013, 08:02 PM
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Originally Posted by sony1717 View Post

Well, you'd easily be able to find that information on this thread if it weren't for the fact that we are talking about legacy TVs, plasma issues, image retention, and every other imaginable topic except for the F8000...(this is the F8000 thread, right?)

If you take a look on Value Electronics site ( http://un65f8000.com ) you will see that the 60" lists a shipping date as the week of 4/8 - right around the corner, with the 65" and 75" following after that. From what I know they are a trust-worthy Samsung retailer and have their finger on the pulse of distribution dates as good as anyone.

(your other questions need to be answered by someone who actually has the set up and running - and it would be nice to hear some first-hand experience on the F8000)
Good post and right on point.
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post #2095 of 3705 Old 03-29-2013, 08:26 PM
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Originally Posted by eagle_2 View Post

I took another quick look at the F8000 tonight in Best Buy, hoping they moved it to a better location than near the ceiling (they didn't). There is now no question in my mind that the sets till suffers from some form of CE-Dimming or auto-dimming, because it was plainly visible multiple times during the few minutes I looked. As I mentioned before, the set was of course on demo mode, so the tv-denerated sales-pitch menus were popping up all over the edges of the screen, whenever the Best Buy feed would fade to black between clips, those tv-generated menus would dim to a fraction of their regular brightness, and pop back to full brightness as soon as a new clip faded in. This is classic CE-Dimming behavior. The white text, the grey backgrounds of menus, they all dimmed instantly upon a black screen. My girlfriend saw it as well. I don't see how anybody could not see just by walking into any Best Buy and watching the screen for 5 minutes. Just pay attention to what happens to the edge menus that pop in and out in demo mode.

This makes me very nervous. What happened to that new technology that promises keeping the screen deep black without affecting bright areas of the screen. I call shenanigans.

I only ever saw dimming during certain movie credits. I don't see it in normal viewing. I'm not planning to watch a lot of random clips strung together, though, so it doesn't bother me much. smile.gif

Speaking of Best Buy demos, so many of their TVs were strung up so far up the wall that they were nearly touching the ceiling. Awful. I feel bad for whoever had to lift them up there.
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post #2096 of 3705 Old 03-29-2013, 09:19 PM
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Originally Posted by eagle_2 View Post

I took another quick look at the F8000 tonight in Best Buy, hoping they moved it to a better location than near the ceiling (they didn't). There is now no question in my mind that the set still suffers from some form of CE-Dimming or auto-dimming, because it was plainly visible multiple times during the few minutes I looked. As I mentioned before, the set was of course on demo mode, so the tv-generated sales-pitch menus were popping up all over the edges of the screen, whenever the Best Buy feed would fade to black between clips, those tv-generated menus would dim to a fraction of their regular brightness, and pop back to full brightness as soon as a new clip faded in. This is classic CE-Dimming behavior. The white text, the grey backgrounds of menus, they all dimmed instantly upon a black screen. My girlfriend saw it as well. I don't see how anybody could not see just by walking into any Best Buy and watching the screen for 5 minutes. Just pay attention to what happens to the edge menus that pop in and out in demo mode.

This makes me very nervous. What happened to that new technology that promises keeping the screen deep black without affecting bright areas of the screen? I call shenanigans.

Are you sure it is ce dimming? I was in best buy picking the thing apart for an hour and that somehow made it past me. I'm going to have to take another look soon. I made sure dynamic contrast was disabled as well as the Eco settings that not only adjust brightness based on lighting conditions but also based on the content of the screen. This limits brightness of images with more white and lowers it for content that is darker somewhat mimicking abl for brights and ce for darks. I haven't seen much buzz about what you're talking about on the owners thread so I'm hoping it was just a goofy setting. While at best buy I definitely did not notice what you are describing.
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post #2097 of 3705 Old 03-29-2013, 09:27 PM
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Are you sure it is ce dimming? I was in best buy picking the thing apart for an hour and that somehow made it past me. I'm going to have to take another look soon. I made sure dynamic contrast was disabled as well as the Eco settings that not only adjust brightness based on lighting conditions but also based on the content of the screen. This limits brightness of images with more white and lowers it for content that is darker somewhat mimicking abl for brights and ce for darks. I haven't seen much buzz about what you're talking about on the owners thread so I'm hoping it was just a goofy setting. While at best buy I definitely did not notice what you are describing.

I noticed it on Tuesday when picking up To the Artic and Bait 3D (sad to admit i bought it, But it was only $7)... But I'm used to full array w/local dimming so when I see an image get dimmer on edge lit sets it sticks out like a sore thumb to me. But if I was to own another edge-lit, I'd much rather have the image dim than minor flashlighting, so if that is what it takes, so be it.
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post #2098 of 3705 Old 03-29-2013, 09:43 PM
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Originally Posted by AGuy01 View Post

I only ever saw dimming during certain movie credits. I don't see it in normal viewing. I'm not planning to watch a lot of random clips strung together, though, so it doesn't bother me much. smile.gif

Speaking of Best Buy demos, so many of their TVs were strung up so far up the wall that they were nearly touching the ceiling. Awful. I feel bad for whoever had to lift them up there.

You may run into it on non credit sequences in certain movies. The start of chapter 2 of Prometheus and the pre-credit intro to Cars 2 during the radio transmission.
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post #2099 of 3705 Old 03-30-2013, 12:35 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by rlb View Post

Maybe not 600 watts; but 65" vt50 owners manual specifies rated power of 560w. My 65" vt25 has a rated power of 644w and you can feel the heat from 3 feet away.

It never uses 560 watts. That's basically the maximum power it can draw. Plasmas -- unlike LCDs -- vary their power usage with picture content. With my Kill-a-Watt, I can tell you my calibrated VT50 uses a bit over 300 watts on average.

By the way, I can feel the heat 3 feet away from my HP Envy laptop, too. That doesn't mean it can heat the room.

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working.
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post #2100 of 3705 Old 03-30-2013, 02:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AGuy01 View Post

I only ever saw dimming during certain movie credits. I don't see it in normal viewing. I'm not planning to watch a lot of random clips strung together, though, so it doesn't bother me much. smile.gif

Speaking of Best Buy demos, so many of their TVs were strung up so far up the wall that they were nearly touching the ceiling. Awful. I feel bad for whoever had to lift them up there.

It affects far more than random clips strung together. That's why I'm concerned. It regularly affected normal viewing last year. Some don't notice it, many do.

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