Samsung F8000 -- 2013 Flagship Models - Page 73 - AVS Forum
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post #2161 of 3719 Old 04-02-2013, 08:41 PM
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Here are the pictures of the TV in a room as dark as I can get it one the first is in Dynamic then Movie.

Dynamic



Movie







My iPhone had trouble focusing on the yellow dot on the last picture. also the closing credits are from Django, which is a bright red and dont show up too well in the picture.
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post #2162 of 3719 Old 04-02-2013, 11:28 PM
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That's weird, in the Movie mode pictures it almost looks like there is some flash lighting. However, in the dynamic mode pictures (which is normally brighter and should expose uniformity issues) the picture looks perfect (better blacks, no corner bleed, no brighter edges).

I've heard that the F8000 does not have "smart LED" in Movie mode. Is that why the blacks on dynamic mode look so much better?

Can an owner of the US F8000 please confirm which modes let you use Smart LED?
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post #2163 of 3719 Old 04-03-2013, 02:40 AM
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Those images above are exactly what I figured we would start seeing once owners started posting their pictures. While posted pictures are certainly not a great way to get any kind of accurate idea about blacks or image quality, the images above certainly suggest some flashlighting going on.

@eclipsegt, that's exactly what happens in dynamic mode. Dynamic mode does two things very obvious - it crushes black to an extreme level, and it blows out highlights (bright areas) to an extreme level. That is why dynamic mode hides the flashlighting. It crushes blacks to the point where tons of detail is lost in the dark areas of the image - it also uses auto-dimming tricks to further darken the screen - so basically the screen appears pitch black, because there's almost nothing left of any detail to see in the dark areas. At the same time its blowing out the highlights so a good amount of detail is lost in the lighter areas. Dynamic mode should be avoided at all costs. It produces a very harsh, artificial-looking image.This is based on my experience last year - I doubt there's any change in how it works this year.

I thought Smart LED, whatever that really is, was available in all modes? Maybe I'm wrong - I need to check this out again at Best Buy.
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post #2164 of 3719 Old 04-03-2013, 03:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eagle_2 View Post

Those images above are exactly what I figured we would start seeing once owners started posting their pictures. While posted pictures are certainly not a great way to get any kind of accurate idea about blacks or image quality, the images above certainly suggest some flashlighting going on.

@eclipsegt, that's exactly what happens in dynamic mode. Dynamic mode does two things very obvious - it crushes black to an extreme level, and it blows out highlights (bright areas) to an extreme level. That is why dynamic mode hides the flashlighting. It crushes blacks to the point where tons of detail is lost in the dark areas of the image - it also uses auto-dimming tricks to further darken the screen - so basically the screen appears pitch black, because there's almost nothing left of any detail to see in the dark areas. At the same time its blowing out the highlights so a good amount of detail is lost in the lighter areas. Dynamic mode should be avoided at all costs. It produces a very harsh, artificial-looking image.This is based on my experience last year - I doubt there's any change in how it works this year.

I thought Smart LED, whatever that really is, was available in all modes? Maybe I'm wrong - I need to check this out again at Best Buy.

I can hear you. Yes the above images show clear flashlighting to me too. For the price I will pay for this set I DON'T want to have these kind of flashlights. I guess the F8500 might be a better bet

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post #2165 of 3719 Old 04-03-2013, 04:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eagle_2 View Post

Those images above are exactly what I figured we would start seeing once owners started posting their pictures. While posted pictures are certainly not a great way to get any kind of accurate idea about blacks or image quality, the images above certainly suggest some flashlighting going on.

@eclipsegt, that's exactly what happens in dynamic mode. Dynamic mode does two things very obvious - it crushes black to an extreme level, and it blows out highlights (bright areas) to an extreme level. That is why dynamic mode hides the flashlighting. It crushes blacks to the point where tons of detail is lost in the dark areas of the image - it also uses auto-dimming tricks to further darken the screen - so basically the screen appears pitch black, because there's almost nothing left of any detail to see in the dark areas. At the same time its blowing out the highlights so a good amount of detail is lost in the lighter areas. Dynamic mode should be avoided at all costs. It produces a very harsh, artificial-looking image.This is based on my experience last year - I doubt there's any change in how it works this year.

I thought Smart LED, whatever that really is, was available in all modes? Maybe I'm wrong - I need to check this out again at Best Buy.


And we are basing these pictures off of an un-calibrated set? If that is the case, then the PQ will be all over the place. If someone is posting pictures to show night viewing images, we need to know what settings are being used. I can turn off Local Dimming on Full-Array LED and make it will look like crap in a dark room. Not to bash anyone, but we need to see one that is calibrated to get a real picture of how much there really is. We know Edge-Lit T.V.s are flawed, just trying to see how much this TV mask those flaws with accurate settings.
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post #2166 of 3719 Old 04-03-2013, 05:27 AM
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Originally Posted by JSteel View Post

And we are basing these pictures off of an un-calibrated set? If that is the case, then the PQ will be all over the place. If someone is posting pictures to show night viewing images, we need to know what settings are being used. I can turn off Local Dimming on Full-Array LED and make it will look like crap in a dark room. Not to bash anyone, but we need to see one that is calibrated to get a real picture of how much there really is. We know Edge-Lit T.V.s are flawed, just trying to see how much this TV mask those flaws with accurate settings.

You are right. However, how many users would be able to get their TVs professionally calibrated? I cannot as there are no Pro calibrators in my area so whatever I can do will be self done. And to what extent the average consumer can self calibrate so these flashlights go away? That is the question and I hope we can get the answer from the users who got the TV already.

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post #2167 of 3719 Old 04-03-2013, 05:44 AM
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carlrhxphn, what was your backlight set at with the screen shot in movie mode?

Was cinema black on or off?
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post #2168 of 3719 Old 04-03-2013, 06:09 AM
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My 60" es8000 displays that same scene from Skyfall , in movie mode, with much darker letterbox bars.

Again, thats why i firmly believe that fw 1046.2 activated cinema black for the 8000 (without user control but who cares)...

Love for all things Hi-def...Losing count; 200 plus bluray, 500 plus dvd, 30 plus HDdvd and a rapidly growing 50 plus in the cloud.

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post #2169 of 3719 Old 04-03-2013, 07:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

Ah, but let me tell you, I don't miss the days of spending hours and hours on convergence. What a pain. And once you were done, you were never really done. Give it a few months and you'd see it drift. Time to reconverge. My wife used to tell me I spent more time on convergence than actually watching the display. This was a 64" Zenith RP HDTV. It was actually a terrific set, but a pain in the butt to converge.

I don't miss that for one second. smile.gif

me either.

I still have my mylar grid for my 65" somewhere in the basement to get geometry right. Once you zero'd out everything in the service menu and had the yolks centered and got geometry right via the mylar grid it was a LOT less stress on the convergence IC's. Which means they failed less often and they didn't drift quite as bad. But they do still indeed drift... Nothing you can do about that, the earths magnetic field and stuff in your house/area will cause it to happen.

I would really nail convergence with a pair of binoculars from my seating position. I stole that trick from Craig Miller; who was IMO the king of RPTV calibration especially mitsubishi's. It took 10-11 hours to calibrate them from scratch.

Calibrators today don't do nearly the same level of tweaking for flat panels. Calibrating a Samsung LCD/Plasma is walk in park in comparison wink.gif And a VT50 with apps like Controlcal... easy stuff. Now finding that magical size patten on a plasma which gives you an accurate picture for a limited range of APL. And learning/working around the ABL/TV controls; that's what you're paying for. It takes time to learn these things, so really any calibrations done by professionals on their 1st turn on a new TV could probably be somewhat improved by the time the calibrators have done 20-50 TVs, or especially if they own the set and can spend more time with it.

anyhoo, back on topic wink.gif

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post #2170 of 3719 Old 04-03-2013, 08:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Filbert Fox View Post

carlrhxphn, what was your backlight set at with the screen shot in movie mode?

Was cinema black on or off?

It was set at 16 on movie and 20 on Dynamic. Keep in mind that most people will end up having there brightness alot lower than me. I just have a very bright room during the day so I like having a bright screen, That is the main reason I haven't gotten a plasma. I think Cinema black is disabled in movie mode which kind of makes no sense seeing as cinema pretty much means movie.
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post #2171 of 3719 Old 04-03-2013, 08:55 AM
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Originally Posted by carlrhxphn View Post

It was set at 16 on movie and 20 on Dynamic. Keep in mind that most people will end up having there brightness alot lower than me. I just have a very bright room during the day so I like having a bright screen, That is the main reason I haven't gotten a plasma. I think Cinema black is disabled in movie mode which kind of makes no sense seeing as cinema pretty much means movie.

Thanks,

I generally have my backlight at around 8-10 so that will certainly help with the flashlighting.

Do you mean you personally don't use cinema black or do you mean it is disabled completely by Samsung in movie mode?
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post #2172 of 3719 Old 04-03-2013, 10:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Bladerunner1959 View Post

My 60" es8000 displays that same scene from Skyfall , in movie mode, with much darker letterbox bars.

Again, thats why i firmly believe that fw 1046.2 activated cinema black for the 8000 (without user control but who cares)...

Comparing black levels of a pic of a TV to your actual TV is unwise.
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post #2173 of 3719 Old 04-03-2013, 11:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Halimali View Post

You are right. However, how many users would be able to get their TVs professionally calibrated? I cannot as there are no Pro calibrators in my area so whatever I can do will be self done. And to what extent the average consumer can self calibrate so these flashlights go away? That is the question and I hope we can get the answer from the users who got the TV already.

Great point. I have no calibrators available in my area, nor do I have the spare funds to get one done. If people are expected to see flashlighting and other flaws in their panel unless they get their set professionally calibrated, there's a serious problem with those sets. How many people who buy these gets a pro calibration? Probably a very small percentage. I see a dozen people at any given time on the weekend looking at these sets when I go into Best Buy, and I bet most never even consider a calibration. That doesn't mean they should have to deal with panel issues. A calibration isn't intended to hide panel deficiencies.
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post #2174 of 3719 Old 04-03-2013, 11:20 AM
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Originally Posted by carlrhxphn View Post

It was set at 16 on movie and 20 on Dynamic. Keep in mind that most people will end up having there brightness alot lower than me. I just have a very bright room during the day so I like having a bright screen, That is the main reason I haven't gotten a plasma. I think Cinema black is disabled in movie mode which kind of makes no sense seeing as cinema pretty much means movie.

I will say that Movie on 16 is exceptionally bright for most people. I had my standard last year around 8 or 9, and movie around 12 max. 3D mode however was set much brighter of course. With a setting of 16 in movie mode I'm not surprised to see some flashlighting, though according to early reviews, we shouldn't be seeing any..

Every review I've read so far suggests no visible clouding or flashlighting. Clouding doesn't seem to be an issue with those images at least, but they certainly seem to show flashlighting.
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post #2175 of 3719 Old 04-03-2013, 12:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carlrhxphn View Post

Here are the pictures of the TV in a room as dark as I can get it one the first is in Dynamic then Movie.

Dynamic

Movie

My iPhone had trouble focusing on the yellow dot on the last picture. also the closing credits are from Django, which is a bright red and dont show up too well in the picture.

Thanks for posting...not perfect but still ideal.

How's the motion resolution?

The Best Buy display models had the most detailed LED pictures, short of Plasmas.
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post #2176 of 3719 Old 04-03-2013, 12:30 PM
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Originally Posted by eagle_2 View Post

Great point. I have no calibrators available in my area, nor do I have the spare funds to get one done. If people are expected to see flashlighting and other flaws in their panel unless they get their set professionally calibrated, there's a serious problem with those sets. How many people who buy these gets a pro calibration? Probably a very small percentage. I see a dozen people at any given time on the weekend looking at these sets when I go into Best Buy, and I bet most never even consider a calibration. That doesn't mean they should have to deal with panel issues. A calibration isn't intended to hide panel deficiencies.

Absolutely right. Small percentage of people calibrate their TVs. I guess most average users will either return these sets or just live with them with their flaws. But what I cannot understand is how can Samsung let the same flaws go on from a model after another?!! To be honest you should never depend on calibration to cover the flaws of a TV. Calibration should make something very good looks stunning and excellent.

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post #2177 of 3719 Old 04-03-2013, 12:34 PM
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Originally Posted by eagle_2 View Post

I will say that Movie on 16 is exceptionally bright for most people. I had my standard last year around 8 or 9, and movie around 12 max. 3D mode however was set much brighter of course. With a setting of 16 in movie mode I'm not surprised to see some flashlighting, though according to early reviews, we shouldn't be seeing any..

Every review I've read so far suggests no visible clouding or flashlighting. Clouding doesn't seem to be an issue with those images at least, but they certainly seem to show flashlighting.

That raises the question whether Samsung carefully inspects the TV sets sending to the reviewers while does not take much care in the inspection of the ones going to consumers.
I really don't know. I hope we see more feedback from users. I really hope this is not contagious as it was in the ES models.

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Has any new F8000 owners played around with the web browser? Does it load, scroll web pages and play web videos as fast as a Windows 7 PC or an Android tablet? Also how does it look any new features? Thanks,
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Thanks for posting...not perfect but still ideal.

How's the motion resolution?

The Best Buy display models had the most detailed LED pictures, short of Plasmas.

Personally seems better than any LED I have seen, but I dont know any one with a Plasma so I could not tell you how it compares to that. All I could say about plasma is whenever I see it compared to an LED in a store it is not bright enough.
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post #2180 of 3719 Old 04-03-2013, 12:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Halimali View Post

That raises the question whether Samsung carefully inspects the TV sets sending to the reviewers while does not take much care in the inspection of the ones going to consumers.
I really don't know. I hope we see more feedback from users. I really hope this is not contagious as it was in the ES models.

I have read most of the professional reviews and it needs to be understood that they all tend to turn down the back light to match plasma's. Seeing the TV in real life during these test is allot better than it shows in the picture. I don't have a DSLR camera. for instance like I said earlier the closing credits that I took the picture of was red and in the picture it looks more like a dark orange. If someone with better camera equipment was to take the picture you more than likely would see much better results.
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post #2181 of 3719 Old 04-03-2013, 01:02 PM
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Originally Posted by carlrhxphn View Post

I have read most of the professional reviews and it needs to be understood that they all tend to turn down the back light to match plasma's. Seeing the TV in real life during these test is allot better than it shows in the picture. I don't have a DSLR camera. for instance like I said earlier the closing credits that I took the picture of was red and in the picture it looks more like a dark orange. If someone with better camera equipment was to take the picture you more than likely would see much better results.

I'm glad it looks better in real, but I'm not concerned about the color of the closing credit as much as I'm concerned about the uniformity of the panel. If you see on the left screen of the TV there is flashlight. Perhaps you might take another pic while the back light is turned down and check again how it affects the flashlighting.

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Personally seems better than any LED I have seen, but I dont know any one with a Plasma so I could not tell you how it compares to that. All I could say about plasma is whenever I see it compared to an LED in a store it is not bright enough.

Thanks, I also think the F8000 is the best edge-lit LED I have seen.
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post #2183 of 3719 Old 04-03-2013, 02:09 PM
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Personally seems better than any LED I have seen, but I dont know any one with a Plasma so I could not tell you how it compares to that. All I could say about plasma is whenever I see it compared to an LED in a store it is not bright enough.

I was at BB today. I sat and watched 2 sets. On the left was a 64F8500 plasma and on the right the 65ES8000 LED.

The same Blu-ray was being played on each. Both sets were set in the Dynamic Mode and the plasma was almost (if not the same) brightness as the LED. No longer can one say that plasma's are not as bright as an LED. At least the Samsung 64F8500 isn't.

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Absolutely right. Small percentage of people calibrate their TVs. I guess most average users will either return these sets or just live with them with their flaws. But what I cannot understand is how can Samsung let the same flaws go on from a model after another?!! To be honest you should never depend on calibration to cover the flaws of a TV. Calibration should make something very good looks stunning and excellent.

+1

well said.
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Absolutely right. Small percentage of people calibrate their TVs. I guess most average users will either return these sets or just live with them with their flaws. But what I cannot understand is how can Samsung let the same flaws go on from a model after another?!! To be honest you should never depend on calibration to cover the flaws of a TV. Calibration should make something very good looks stunning and excellent.

You are correct and make a good point. I should of left the calibration portion off and just said setting as we need to know what his setting are to see if his TV settings are causing his problem. Like I said, Edge-Lit TVs will always be flawed, we just need to sEe how much of the flaws we can hide so we can enjoy the TV. If his setting are to the max, then there maybe an issue. Three should be no flaws in these high priced TVs but there is nothing perfect in this world.
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post #2186 of 3719 Old 04-03-2013, 06:17 PM
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Wow...lots and lots of anal retentive nit-picking going on here And all based on cell-phone-quality pics of someone else's TV.

Raise your hand if you honestly think you can telL ANYTHING about these sets from that.

Honestly, I started thinking I could actually see the dreaded "flash-lighting" (the curse of all creation) from one of those pictures. Then I realized it was a smudge on my iPad. Shame on those evil Conspirators in Samsung engineering for letting THAT happen!

Do we really need page after page of endless pure speculation based on absolutely nothing?

I mean, if we're so damn sure these sets are going to have all these dreaded issues, don't buy one. But the same people keep posting the same doomsaying things literally dozens of times:

"I'm soooo concerned about what the evil geniuses at Samsung have done to us this time. Oh, the humanity!!! Will someone who owns this set PLEASE post yet another really crappy quality picture of their set under the absolute worst conditions possible so I can post yet another hand-wringing, pant-wetting, moaning and groaning whine about why no one in their right mind would ever, under any circumstances, want to buy one of these crappy and hideously overpriced pieces of junk?

And then be sure to tell me EXACTLY what settings you used to get that hideously deformed excuse of a picture so I don't make the same mistake on the set I'm not going to buy anyway."

/rant... eek.gifrolleyes.gifcool.gifbiggrin.gif
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post #2187 of 3719 Old 04-03-2013, 06:46 PM
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You are correct and make a good point. I should of left the calibration portion off and just said setting as we need to know what his setting are to see if his TV settings are causing his problem. Like I said, Edge-Lit TVs will always be flawed, we just need to sEe how much of the flaws we can hide so we can enjoy the TV. If his setting are to the max, then there maybe an issue. Three should be no flaws in these high priced TVs but there is nothing perfect in this world.

I dont see any flaws when I watch the tv it just look like that in the picture while having the back light on very high to max. Most of the people on this forum probably watch there TVs around half the brightness of the set . All of you should try taking a picture of your own TVs at max back lighting, using your phones, so you can understand the difference between the picture and an actual TV.

Please dont get me wrong. It sounds like I am trying to defend this TV which I am not. Believe me there are other stuff about this tv that is pissing me off (You can stream movies on your network but you cant fast forward, rewind or pause them, which is why I wont be posting anymore pics it is getting inconvenient to get a good screen grab. Both the voice, and motion control is pretty much useless, and the only good app on the smart hub so far is Youtube]. It is just that I want to make sure that people understand these pictures make it a lot easier to view problems with the screen than using the naked eye and if you need to use this method to see a problem that you cant see with your naked then is there really a problem?

while I am at it, this is the picture someone requested on the default movie mode. I checked. the back light defaults to 12.

photo (1).JPG 1082k .JPG file photo (2).JPG 1063k .JPG file
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post #2188 of 3719 Old 04-03-2013, 08:32 PM
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So I went into Best Buy this evening and got a chance to play with the F8000 a bit more. I asked for a remote, not expecting the actual touch remote, since last time they told me it was taped behind the tv.rolleyes.gif. But the salesman actually provided me with the touch remote. Cool. So here's my chance to try out the touch remote with this set. Not so fast! It didn't work. I tried every single button, I tried swiping...nothing worked but the power button. The salesman tried, and confirmed it wasn't working. He swapped out the batteries, and still it didn't work. Only the power button worked - nothing else did anything. Nice remote, Samsung. wink.gif

So instead I was brought a standard remote, which worked fine. The first thing I did was switch from Dynamic to Standard, and disabled all settings available - ECO settings, Dynamic contrast, Smart LED, Cinema Black, AMP, and all other options. I then went into Movie mode and disabled everything there as well. Then I watched.

- There is a permanent auto-dimming in Standard mode, just like last year, that cannot be disabled. There is no doubt about it. My girlfriend easily saw it too. Because of the demo-mode fly-out style menus on the sides and bottom (those who have seen the demo mode in stores know what I mean), the dimming was easy to spot. Every time the screen faded to black, the screen dimmed, including the built-in tv-generated fly-out demo menus. Text also dimmed, when against a black background. Because of the nature of the Best Buy video clips, I could not judge at all how that affected normal viewing. I suspect it will be very similar to last year - dark content = dimmed panel, bright content = bright panel. The darker the image, the more aggressive the dimming is likely to be, like last year.

- I then went into Movie mode. To my surprise, I did not see any noticeable auto-dimming. I watched for several minutes, and saw no sign of auto-dimming.

- I then enabled Smart LED in Movie mode. Yes, Smart LED is available in Movie mode. You have a choice of Off, Low, Standard, and High. I set it to Standard for Movie mode. With Smart LED on standard in movie mode, there was an immediately obvious change in the image. It really was impossible to tell in Best Buy if this was doing good things or bad - you would need test images to know for sure what was happening. It did "appear" to be an improvement - more "pop" I guess you could say. There was no auto-dimming effect that I could see with Smart LED on standard.

So then I set Smart LED to high. There seemed to be little to no picture quality difference, at least with the video sample being displayed there, between Smart LED on standard and High. The big difference was between low and standard. There was a huge difference when switching from low to standard, but virtually nothing changed from standard to high. One thing did change though - on high, Movie mode was now afflicted by auto-dimming, just like in Standard mode. Except in Standard mode, auto-dimming was going on even with Smart LED off - in movie mode, Smart LED didn't seem to cause any noticeable auto-dimming until set to high. If there was any dimming there in the store with Smart LED on standard, I couldn't see it. At home, it may become more obvious if there is any dimming going on.

So, Smart LED is available in movie mode, and seems to have some rather drastic effects on the image when set to standard. Low seemed to have little effect over off, and high had little effect over standard. Smart LED caused auto-dimming just like in Standard mode, but seemingly only when set to high. Low and standard didn't seem to cause a noticeable dimming effect from what I could see on display anyways.

Another thing to note - Motion Lighting is unavailable in Standard mode, but it is available in Movie mode. It was disabled in Movie mode for my experimenting this evening.

What does all this mean? Not sure yet - I still don't know just what Smart LED is supposed to be - is it "micro-dimming"? If so, why does it cause auto-dimming when set to high? And why is there forced auto-dimming in Standard mode, even when Smart LED is set to off? It does seem like for those that hate auto-dimming, Movie mode might be an option this year, unlike last year with it's drab blacks and dull image. No auto dimming by default from what I can see in Movie mode, and Smart LED can safely be turned up to standard and still not cause any major dimming issues (from what I can tell with the very little observing I was able to do this evening). Does that mean Smart LED is really Micro-Dimming, and we can have that choice this year in Movie mode? I hope so.
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post #2189 of 3719 Old 04-03-2013, 08:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moonhawk View Post

Wow...lots and lots of anal retentive nit-picking going on here And all based on cell-phone-quality pics of someone else's TV.

Raise your hand if you honestly think you can telL ANYTHING about these sets from that.

Honestly, I started thinking I could actually see the dreaded "flash-lighting" (the curse of all creation) from one of those pictures. Then I realized it was a smudge on my iPad. Shame on those evil Conspirators in Samsung engineering for letting THAT happen!

Do we really need page after page of endless pure speculation based on absolutely nothing?

I mean, if we're so damn sure these sets are going to have all these dreaded issues, don't buy one. But the same people keep posting the same doomsaying things literally dozens of times:

"I'm soooo concerned about what the evil geniuses at Samsung have done to us this time. Oh, the humanity!!! Will someone who owns this set PLEASE post yet another really crappy quality picture of their set under the absolute worst conditions possible so I can post yet another hand-wringing, pant-wetting, moaning and groaning whine about why no one in their right mind would ever, under any circumstances, want to buy one of these crappy and hideously overpriced pieces of junk?

And then be sure to tell me EXACTLY what settings you used to get that hideously deformed excuse of a picture so I don't make the same mistake on the set I'm not going to buy anyway."

/rant... eek.gifrolleyes.gifcool.gifbiggrin.gif

Lol. I think I said more than once that you cannot tell image quality based on these posted photos. I only mentioned that from the posted photos, it appears that there is some flashlighting going on. Can you tell accurately how black the set can get from these posted images? Of course not! I'd never suggest that. But clouding and flashlighting can certainly be visible in a photo, and give an idea of how bad it might be. When I had to provide images of my clouding for the tech and Samsung for my old ES7500, the pictures did a fine job of showing the awful amount of clouding and flashlighting on that set. And my backlight for those images was set at 8! It was obviously bad enough to get a refund.

I don't think Samsung needs you to defend them. If this is a great set, that will come out over time once owners start buying these and falling in love with them. But right now, some people are concerned, especially based on Samsung's previous track record. I see nothing wrong with people saying both good and bad things about these sets. This is not a fan club. It's a place to discuss all aspects of these sets, to help possible future owners make an educated choice of whether this is the best set for them, and also to help current owners understand exactly what all these different settings, modes, and options do this year.

I'm sure Samsung appreciates your cheerleading though.
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post #2190 of 3719 Old 04-03-2013, 08:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Halimali View Post

That raises the question whether Samsung carefully inspects the TV sets sending to the reviewers while does not take much care in the inspection of the ones going to consumers.
I really don't know. I hope we see more feedback from users. I really hope this is not contagious as it was in the ES models.

I've always wondered that same thing myself. I'm sure others have wondered too. I guess we can never know that though. Only Samsung knows this. I would not be surprised if all companies carefully hand-pick the sets to be sent out for reviews. Though, I have to say, sometimes even pro reviews do seem to mention when they're not pleased with the uniformity.
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