Samsung F8000 -- 2013 Flagship Models - Page 79 - AVS Forum
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post #2341 of 3703 Old 04-09-2013, 06:23 PM
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Very interesting. I was just telling the salesperson at Best Buy today that I felt the F8500 was the first display I've seen that had a better overall picture than my last generation Elite KURO. It's hardly surprising that the ZT60 is an awesome set as well. Congrats to Samsung and Panasonic! It only took them four years to catch Pioneer ... rolleyes.gif
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post #2342 of 3703 Old 04-09-2013, 06:42 PM
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Originally Posted by AGuy01 View Post

The motion interpolation in 3D content isn't that noticeable, at least not in terms of creating a soap opera effect. I find 3D on the Samsung is a much more enjoyable affair than on the Sony HX850 I previously owned. It's a more fluid picture without looking fake, thus making the experience less headache inducing.

As far as game mode/input lag, what kind of games do you intend to play? I've left it on movie mode when I've been playing Tomb Raider, racing games, and role-playing games, and the input lag hasn't been a bother nor a deterrent. In online Call of Duty matches it may be a problem, but that's the only twitch-based competitive online game I really play at the moment.

I'm glad to hear you're enjoying the 3D on this set. I hope like you I will find the motion interpolation in 3D mode helpful rather than a hindrance.

Well, I'm a big fan of racers, shmups (arcade-type shooters), first person shooters (single-player campaigns, not multi-player), and pinball (I love pinball, like Future Pinball tables, but of course they require quick-reflexes). I like all types of games really - platformers and puzzle games too. I get the feeling from the comments about Game mode that FPS games, shooters, and pinball will be a real problem this year, not to mention racing. My only choice then would of course be PC mode, which is unfortunate as there is so little control over the image (no control over black depth, and especially not even any control over color saturation, which is huge for me - because sometimes I don't like the over-saturation and like to dial the color back a bit).
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post #2343 of 3703 Old 04-09-2013, 06:52 PM
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Originally Posted by moonhawk View Post




So, you're going to trust some British review of a set that we know is different from the US model more than you trust your own lyin' eyes on a US model you saw in person? rolleyes.gifeek.gif

I saw a display model in a brightly-lit store playing bright demo-material. I saw images posted in the forum of the opening to The Hobbit, with obvious flashlighting in all corners. I'm sure that poster didn't fake the images of the flashlighting. So while I was very, very impressed with the images I saw in Sears, I'm very aware that it may look totally different when I get home, turn my lights down, and put on Alien or The Descent.

Also, every review and comment so far I've read about gaming mode all say the same thing about Game mode - it's ineffective at reducing lag enough for fast-reflex gaming, and PC mode is required for any serious twitch-based gaming.

Of course I realize that the US models and British models have their differences. But the fact that the owners in the other forum are starting to comment on flashlighting shows that these sets are certainly not immune to it, as some of these early pro reviews might lead us to believe. By the way some of these reviews sound, the sets are virtually free of any flashlighting and clouding. I'll believe it when I have one in front of me in my living room. I was impressed with what I saw at Sears, in Movie mode, and I'm hoping the quality of the image carries over in normal evening viewing conditions, not just in a bright showroom.
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post #2344 of 3703 Old 04-09-2013, 06:59 PM
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Originally Posted by adgrimes View Post

Maybe through one of the many FW updates that will come out, they will fix it.

I have had 0 issue with game mode on on BF3 thank god. I read somwhere there Bioshock Infinite was unplayable. I will rent it from redbox on saturday and give it a try(I'd buy it but just in case it doesn't work...).

Yeah, I'm wondering if the Game mode issue is something that can be addressed via firmware update like you said. Of course, they won't address it if people don't complain to them about it. At least they told me last year on the phone that's how it works - they put firmware priorities based on the number of complaints it receives about a particular issue.

I'm wondering if Game mode, which is of course meant to disable certain intensive processing, might just not be disabling something it should be, and a simple firmware fix could correct that issue? But we can't assume they will fix it. If I buy the set and discover games like Bioshock Infinite, which I do plan on playing eventually, is indeed unplayable, then I have to make a decision based on what they are currently offering for a set. I can't keep it and wait for months without gaming while they maybe are working on a fix or maybe not.

I look forward to hearing your experience with Bioshock Infinite in standard mode vs game mode vs pc mode.
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post #2345 of 3703 Old 04-09-2013, 07:02 PM
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Originally Posted by AGuy01 View Post

No offense to eagle_2, but his posts on the F8000 look to me like he's trying to convince himself not to buy it. Then again, maybe he's just being thorough in his research.

No offense taken - I'm just being cautious and thorough. I've been burned by the ES7500 and was very lucky in getting a full refund eventually after months of fighting for a tech to come out. I actually really hope this set works out, because it does indeed look stunning in person. I really want this to be the set. But I'm trying not to end up in the same boat as last year - last year the moment I bought the ES7500 I was handed a receipt from Best Buy banning future returns for 90 days based on my return history with other bad sets. So my ES7500 was defective and I couldn't return it, which is why it took months of going through Samsung before I actually got a refund after the tech finally came out to see it. I just don't want to end up in that boat again.
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post #2346 of 3703 Old 04-09-2013, 07:25 PM
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Sorry I have not had a chance to post again. Been a bit of busy week (and will be).

First off, I wouldn't judge the US model on the UK impressions. They are different TVs. At the very least, the UK model has different inputs (3 coaxial where US has 1). It might not sound like a bid deal, but it can have a huge effect on PQ. This is primarily due the placement of boards/heat spreaders.

Then again, the sets may be similar and we are back to the panel lottery. Either way, I couldn't disagree more with the uniformity issues, and cinema black.

I have watched several dark movies, and performed several tests, just to see how uniformity is. With a white spot in the middle of a dark background, I do have some slight flashlighting on the sides of the screen. Also, towards the middle of the right side, I can notice the screen is slightly brighter than the other side. However, when you watch a movie like tron legacy, it is impossible to detect. On my set at least, I couldn't notice it all.

Cinema black... I can't help but wonder if we were looking at the same tv. With cinema black set to on, with the naked eye, it is impossible to see any uniformity differences along the black bars. I mean impossible. There is barely even any noticeable difference between the bezel and the black bars.

The only thing I can imagine people are talking about is the viewing angles. Which are admittedly, terrible. Not an issue for me because I set head on, and my friends be damned smile.gif. When you move off center though, the opposite side of the screen starts to look like it is flashlighting.

Pictures:
I wasn't going to post these since I decided that the pictures are extremely subjective/manipulable. I found just altering the exposure time for a second or two, made the screen wash out completely, or look inky black. Here are a couple though, just to give you some idea what I am talking about.

Went crazy with the exposure time. You can see the areas that are flashinglighting. BUT, this isn't how the tv looks at all. This from a very long exposure that gathered tons of light. You can tell by looking at the samsung logo at the bottom of the tv (and the extreme halos around everything)


Same shot with a much lower exposure time. See what I mean? This is much closer to how the set actually looks.


Here is a shot that is very close to actual viewing. It isn't focused correctly, but you get some idea of how good the blacks look. I placed a white bar over my espn code.
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post #2347 of 3703 Old 04-09-2013, 07:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Frank Horgan View Post

Sorry I have not had a chance to post again. Been a bit of busy week (and will be).

First off, I wouldn't judge the US model on the UK impressions. They are different TVs. At the very least, the UK model has different inputs (3 coaxial where US has 1). It might not sound like a bid deal, but it can have a huge effect on PQ. This is primarily due the placement of boards/heat spreaders.

Then again, the sets may be similar and we are back to the panel lottery. Either way, I couldn't disagree more with the uniformity issues, and cinema black.

I have watched several dark movies, and performed several tests, just to see how uniformity is. With a white spot in the middle of a dark background, I do have some slight flashlighting on the sides of the screen. Also, towards the middle of the right side, I can notice the screen is slightly brighter than the other side. However, when you watch a movie like tron legacy, it is impossible to detect. On my set at least, I couldn't notice it all.

Cinema black... I can't help but wonder if we were looking at the same tv. With cinema black set to on, with the naked eye, it is impossible to see any uniformity differences along the black bars. I mean impossible. There is barely even any noticeable difference between the bezel and the black bars.

The only thing I can imagine people are talking about is the viewing angles. Which are admittedly, terrible. Not an issue for me because I set head on, and my friends be damned smile.gif. When you move off center though, the opposite side of the screen starts to look like it is flashlighting.

Pictures:
I wasn't going to post these since I decided that the pictures are extremely subjective/manipulable. I found just altering the exposure time for a second or two, made the screen wash out completely, or look inky black. Here are a couple though, just to give you some idea what I am talking about.

Went crazy with the exposure time. You can see the areas that are flashinglighting. BUT, this isn't how the tv looks at all. This from a very long exposure that gathered tons of light. You can tell by looking at the samsung logo at the bottom of the tv (and the extreme halos around everything)


Same shot with a much lower exposure time. See what I mean? This is much closer to how the set actually looks.


Here is a shot that is very close to actual viewing. It isn't focused correctly, but you get some idea of how good the blacks look. I placed a white bar over my espn code.

Thank you for posting those shots, and for your thoughts. I understand what you mean about the exposures, and how long the lens remains open can have a drastic effect on how the picture turns out. Those bottom 2 shots are the kind of picture that I was seeing in Sears. If that is how my panel would end up looking, I would have no complaints in that department.

Can you answer a question about Cinema Black? Do you notice any full-screen dimming or brightness drops or jumps when it is enabled? Based on UK reviews, low seems to do nothing and med/high causes major brightness instability as the screen dims and brightness constantly. In the US, we have only on and off. You say that Cinema Black does have a noticeable effect on the letterbox bars, yet doesn't cause any brightness instability?

And those shots you posted - can you tell me if that's in Movie mode, and with what backlight setting?
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post #2348 of 3703 Old 04-09-2013, 07:54 PM
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Originally Posted by gweempose View Post

I just got back from Best Buy where I bit the bullet and bought a floor model of the 70" Sharp Elite. I have been following this thread for a while, and I was patiently waiting for the 75" F8000 to come out. After reading all the feedback on the 55" version, however, I've come to the conclusion that the picture simply won't compare to the Sharp. In the back of my mind, I was hoping that the F8000 would be some kind of miracle set, and that it would somehow overcome all the shortcomings of edge lighting. This is clearly not the case. Edge lighting is an inferior technology, plain and simple. It's a shame, because I really would have enjoyed having the extra five inches of screen real estate. At least I saved myself a ton of money vs. buying a brand new 75" F8000. smile.gif

I think your going to be happy. An excellent full array, local dimming (true local dimming) set is going to trump even well implemented edge lighting. Best of luck with the new set and I hope it brings you years of enjoyment. Its kind of the one that got away for me, by the time I was going to pull the trigger, all that was left were the Nov.2012 builds. Did you check for uniformity in the store ? Looking forward to hearing your thoughts.
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post #2349 of 3703 Old 04-09-2013, 07:54 PM
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From what I can tell, cinema black is an algorithm that the picture is passed through before display. The algorithm detects large black bars on the top and bottom of the screen, and turns of the edge leds for those sections. It has zero effect on a scene without the bars. You can't notice any difference at all when turning it on and off, if there aren't bars. If there are bars, I notice them getting blacker/more uniform, and that is it.

I believe both shots were at 12 backlight on movie mode with all defaults. I can confirm that standard does do some weird dimming on defaults. The white dot in the middle went very dark when I enabled standard mode. Whether this is due to smart led or something else, I can't say.
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post #2350 of 3703 Old 04-09-2013, 07:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Frank Horgan View Post

I have watched several dark movies, and performed several tests, just to see how uniformity is. With a white spot in the middle of a dark background, I do have some slight flashlighting on the sides of the screen. Also, towards the middle of the right side, I can notice the screen is slightly brighter than the other side. However, when you watch a movie like tron legacy, it is impossible to detect. On my set at least, I couldn't notice it all.

I've seen that, too, but only with a light object in the middle of a black screen. I assume it's because these displays are edge-lit and that the pixels don't light themselves. The television then has to push a lot of light directly to that one spot in the center. But as you said, it's never noticeable during regular content.
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post #2351 of 3703 Old 04-09-2013, 09:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Frank Horgan View Post

From what I can tell, cinema black is an algorithm that the picture is passed through before display. The algorithm detects large black bars on the top and bottom of the screen, and turns of the edge leds for those sections. It has zero effect on a scene without the bars. You can't notice any difference at all when turning it on and off, if there aren't bars. If there are bars, I notice them getting blacker/more uniform, and that is it.

I believe both shots were at 12 backlight on movie mode with all defaults. I can confirm that standard does do some weird dimming on defaults. The white dot in the middle went very dark when I enabled standard mode. Whether this is due to smart led or something else, I can't say.

Thank you. 12 seems like a reasonable setting for backlight in Movie mode - in fact that's what I put it on in Sears. As far as the dimming of the white dot in standard mode, that's the auto-dimming that I have been referring to when I mention CE-Dimming or auto-dimming. I don't believe it is micro-dimming/Smart LED, because even with Smart LED off in standard mode at Sears, it still showed signs of auto-dimming, so it must be something else causing it that we can't control. Strangely, in Best Buy last week I did notice that having Smart LED on standard or high in Movie mode did have a similar dimming effect, though when set to low I saw no sign of dimming.
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post #2352 of 3703 Old 04-09-2013, 10:35 PM
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Frank for the much lower exposure time. What did you use? I need to figure out some setting for my dslr that gives a realistic photo and do not exaggerate the photo one way or the other.

Cinema black doesnt seem to have that dimming effect that UK is describing for me.

Smart LED had some dimming on high, I tried standard and didnt notice any dimming but need to try it in different modes and environments. Completely possible I missed it.
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post #2353 of 3703 Old 04-09-2013, 11:15 PM
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The WAR GONG has gone off in all the plasma camps ! ! ! biggrin.gif

SEK-2000/ZA....Any GOOD ?
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post #2354 of 3703 Old 04-10-2013, 05:51 AM
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This I truly believe:

NO 2 TV`s are alike or will ever be alike , meaning behind statement:

For example , you buy 2- 46'' F8000 / you unbox both / you plug in both to the same type feed , but not the same source. I.E , one cable line going to home + 2 cable boxes the same.
Turn on both and it will highly unlikely the the two will be the same.

There are so many factors involved with the production of any electronic item , and unfortunately , tv`s are the worst.

1 / you have the general sub assembly ( tuner board / power converter / audio processing / video processing and so on.
Most , if not all , of this will be done on a "Wave Solder" machine , fairly consistent , but not 100%

2 / The you have the basic assembly of the sub components , done by under paid humans , just trying to get through the day.

3 / Next you would have Final assembly were the installed sub-components are hand soldered / such as video board to video input connectors -- same for audio board to speakers.

4 / After it is build it may or may not go through some sort of a quick inspection , probably visual , maybe turn it on to see if there is a picture.

5/ After that it is off to packaging and shipping.

Now the consumer has the job of weeding out the good from the bad , for at very minimum adjust the color ( white balance ) and another fine tuning , that may need to be done.

I highly doubt that Samsung or any other TV company is going to take the proper time to set up a tv , like the F8000.
Maybe that 4K res , that is on Samsung`s web site for 40K , might get some more hands on stuff before it goes out the door , but not much.

This my friends is the darker side of the tv market , as it is known today.

So be careful , in how ever long you have to check out any tv you buy before your return date is up.

I wish my self a ton of luck , and I wish you folks all my best thoughts and wishes for a perfect tv. smile.gif

Just something I thought I would write , because as more of these are purchased , more and more calibration number will start to show up.
They will work find for that one set , however , those same numbers may not work on your set.
Just use with care and trust your own eyes !!

Have a great morning , and I will be back !!

Later biggrin.gif

Gary 
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post #2355 of 3703 Old 04-10-2013, 06:18 AM
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Great write up perfectly explained use your own eyes and be the judge
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post #2356 of 3703 Old 04-10-2013, 08:31 AM
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Originally Posted by pred1973 View Post

I think your going to be happy. An excellent full array, local dimming (true local dimming) set is going to trump even well implemented edge lighting. Best of luck with the new set and I hope it brings you years of enjoyment. Its kind of the one that got away for me, by the time I was going to pull the trigger, all that was left were the Nov.2012 builds. Did you check for uniformity in the store ? Looking forward to hearing your thoughts.

I honestly didn't look at it too closely at the store, but I will definitely put it through its paces during the 15-day return period. The one thing I know for sure is that it's not a Nov. 2012 build. In fact, this particular unit has been sitting on the floor since they first unboxed it back in 2011. I've always been impressed by the Elites, but I held off from buying one because I was hoping for something a bit larger to replace my aging 60" Sony. I waited and waited for a larger version of the Elite or some other alternative, but nothing ever materialized. What I didn't anticipate was that everybody would suddenly stop making full array local dimming sets. It's almost as if the LCD industry as a whole took a step backward in 2013.
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post #2357 of 3703 Old 04-10-2013, 09:30 AM
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Originally Posted by jedi29 View Post


Just something I thought I would write , because as more of these are purchased , more and more calibration number will start to show up.
They will work find for that one set , however , those same numbers may not work on your set.
Just use with care and trust your own eyes !!

We've been telling people that for years.....

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1055906/sharing-display-menu-settings

Buzz
THX Certified Video Calibrator

 

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post #2358 of 3703 Old 04-10-2013, 10:10 AM
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Well I'm no expert of course, but what I started to notice is that every time I first turned on my set , the panel looked okay - even when the tech was here. The "V" wasn't visible right away, and clouding didn't seem too bad at all. Later in the evening, suddenly I was seeing the "V" and clouding all over the screen.

Eagle, did you experience the "V" or the clouding during the day? Personally, I'm not sure I've ever seen the "V" shape on my set, but the only time I ever notice any light bleed is at night. I didn't think it was a heat issue (for the most part, my ES8000 always feels cool to the touch). I assumed it had more to do with room brightness and the absence of daylight in the room at night.
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post #2359 of 3703 Old 04-10-2013, 11:01 AM
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Hey guys,

I hope I'm not hijacking but I feel this is related. I got a 46 inch ES8000 for 1500 at Best Buy like 4 days ago (15 day return policy).

I'm hearing the F8000 is much improved but I'd likely be shelling out another 700 bucks! Is the investment really warranted? The reviews on the ES8000 are just so sketch where the F8000 reviews are more mixed.

Thanks
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post #2360 of 3703 Old 04-10-2013, 11:20 AM
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Originally Posted by pitchman View Post

Eagle, did you experience the "V" or the clouding during the day? Personally, I'm not sure I've ever seen the "V" shape on my set, but the only time I ever notice any light bleed is at night. I didn't think it was a heat issue (for the most part, my ES8000 always feels cool to the touch). I assumed it had more to do with room brightness and the absence of daylight in the room at night.

Yup - day, night, didn't matter - the only thing that seemed to be consistent after I started noticing was that it never seemed to appear right away - I would think maybe I won't be seeing it today, then it would be there later on after I was watching for a while. Keep in mind it's not very bright in my living room with my drapes closed though, so even in the day my light can be controlled quite well.
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post #2361 of 3703 Old 04-10-2013, 11:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Tarheel1400 View Post

Hey guys,

I hope I'm not hijacking but I feel this is related. I got a 46 inch ES8000 for 1500 at Best Buy like 4 days ago (15 day return policy).

I'm hearing the F8000 is much improved but I'd likely be shelling out another 700 bucks! Is the investment really warranted? The reviews on the ES8000 are just so sketch where the F8000 reviews are more mixed.

Thanks

Personally, I know the prices seem tempting right now for the ES series, and I know some people have been happy with them, but I think there may be enough improvement this year, if the reviews end up to be true, to warrant consideration. You need to decide if you can afford or want to afford the extra cost. Keep in mind that gaming this year may turn out to be an issue in Game mode thanks to high input lag, where last year it wasn't an issue.
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post #2362 of 3703 Old 04-10-2013, 11:52 AM
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According to the new review linked to by Halimali in the owner's thread, "Light flow-through (areas of the on screen picture that show lights, or sunlight streaming into images) is the best of any TV you will find on the market."

Does that mean that my flashlighing will be really high-quailty flashlighting, instead of that cheap flashlighting found on some sets? tongue.gif

They also say "It is best to keep the backlight at around a 16 or 17 setting." eek.gif So much for this review. Then they say a sentence later, "Colors can really pop on the 60F8000 for an LED TV, though they can get hazy if the backlight is set too high." Yeah, no kidding, so then why do they have it set at 17? rolleyes.gif

Also I love "Auto Motion Plus (Note: Super Important Setting!)" Lol, Yes, very important, unlike all those other settings that aren't important.

How do I sign up to be a tv reviewer? It appears you don't need any qualifications or knowledge of what you're doing, or even know a good image when you see one, to put up a "pro" review.
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post #2363 of 3703 Old 04-10-2013, 12:13 PM
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Also - they have this to say about AMP and gaming:

"AutoMotion Plus shows its worth when it comes to gaming".

"The Movie picture mode is my preferred setting when gaming on the UN60F8000 with a Playstation 3."

"The AutoMotion motion smoothing feature is essential to improving the performance of gaming from the 240Hz panel. When this feature is enabled, motion lag and judder are virtually eliminated and gaming performance is best in class. This is a great gaming TV, very enjoyable once you have the right settings."

"The difference in lag was minimal between having the AutoMotion Plus feature on and off. We measured 100ms of input lag with the AutoMotion Plus feature enabled. Disabling the AutoMotion Plus feature makes a small impact on the motion lag at 90ms."


Huh?? Are they insane? They call 90-100ms of lag "a great gaming tv"? And they actually recommend using AMP which adds more lag? How does using AMP, which they themselves admit adds more lag, manage to actually "virtually eliminate" motion lag? Using the term "amateurs" when describing these guys who wrote the review is an insult to amateurs. I have faith that there are many in this very thread who could write up a more factual review.
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post #2364 of 3703 Old 04-10-2013, 12:13 PM
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Originally Posted by eagle_2 View Post

According to the new review linked to by Halimali in the owner's thread, "Light flow-through (areas of the on screen picture that show lights, or sunlight streaming into images) is the best of any TV you will find on the market."

Does that mean that my flashlighing will be really high-quailty flashlighting, instead of that cheap flashlighting found on some sets? tongue.gif

They also say "It is best to keep the backlight at around a 16 or 17 setting." eek.gif So much for this review. Then they say a sentence later, "Colors can really pop on the 60F8000 for an LED TV, though they can get hazy if the backlight is set too high." Yeah, no kidding, so then why do they have it set at 17? rolleyes.gif

Also I love "Auto Motion Plus (Note: Super Important Setting!)" Lol, Yes, very important, unlike all those other settings that aren't important.

How do I sign up to be a tv reviewer? It appears you don't need any qualifications or knowledge of what you're doing, or even know a good image when you see one, to put up a "pro" review.

Yeah, that is one seriously odd review. smile.gif
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post #2365 of 3703 Old 04-10-2013, 01:17 PM
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and the F 7500 would be considered a downgrade from the ES 8000 even though its a newer set correct?
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post #2366 of 3703 Old 04-10-2013, 03:18 PM
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I would consider the F7500 as ALMOST same as the ES8000 , only with one more HDMI input / a better "Touch" remote / and a Quad Processor.

Both share the same panel.

So , is it the same ?

Hard to say , there are many factors that will come into play to drive the same panel in 2 different tv`s.

On one hand you have the same panel / the flip side is that you have the same panel with different components driving it.

But when the day is done , personally , I would spend the extra 300 and go with the F8000.

Later biggrin.gif

Gary 
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post #2367 of 3703 Old 04-10-2013, 03:33 PM
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Originally Posted by jedi29 View Post

I would consider the F7500 as ALMOST same as the ES8000 , only with one more HDMI input / a better "Touch" remote / and a Quad Processor.

Both share the same panel.

So , is it the same ?

Hard to say , there are many factors that will come into play to drive the same panel in 2 different tv`s.

On one hand you have the same panel / the flip side is that you have the same panel with different components driving it.

But when the day is done , personally , I would spend the extra 300 and go with the F8000.

Later biggrin.gif

Gary 

How, exactly, do we know for sure that they share the same panel? smile.gif

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post #2368 of 3703 Old 04-10-2013, 03:57 PM
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Great question !

I can`t recall exactly where I compiled my findings , it was on several different web sites / Samsung / Amazon / Crutchfield and a couple of others.

The ES8000 as the same 960 refresh rate [sic] / electronically driven , real spec`s 240 , same as this years F7500 , whereas the F8000 as 1200 rr.

One place ( can`t remember ) stated "Precision Micro Dimming" for the ES & F7500 / the other stated "Ultimate Micro Dimming" for the F8000.

I would conclude that both the ES and the F7500 and F8000 . MAY use the same panel , but with different / updated / components to drive the F7500 & F8000.

Just a personal view of research done , by a human smile.gif .

I of course , may be wrong , however I trust I am right.

Either way they are very close , but driven in a different way electronically.

Later biggrin.gif

G. 
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post #2369 of 3703 Old 04-10-2013, 05:12 PM
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Originally Posted by jedi29 View Post

I Know !!

CC down the drain , Paul`s TV same 15% restocking fee , BB only 15 days.

Well , so far , a free 15 day evaluation is better than nothing !! , the only thing is there web site is still stating " Coming Soon" rolleyes.gif

There has to be a way , to get the perk and 60 days of Silver Rewards.

15? I thought BB has 30 days. Or is that only Magnolia?

How much do you have to spend to get Silver?
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post #2370 of 3703 Old 04-10-2013, 05:29 PM
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I wish we could turn back the hands of time , but sadly BB`s , NEW return policy is 15 days.

IF , you are a Silver Reward Zone member , then it is 60 days.

To become a "Silver" member you must spend at least 2500 per calendar year ( 1/1 thru 12/31 __points carry thru until the following Feb. 3rd , then drop off ).

It takes anywhere from 20 days to 6 weeks ( I was told ) AFTER , you spend 2500 or greater for your new account to go into effect.

Current or present purchases , if made after 1/1/13 , BUT if you spent 1500 and had ideas of spending 2200 for an F8000 , it would not work , time would literally be against you.

I feel your anger , as many folks around here do.

15 days is just not long enough to check out a tv as involved as the new F8000 or any new "Smart" - TV , for that matter.

Sorry to mess up your night , but those are the facts !

Later smile.gif

Me 
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