Samsung F8000 -- 2013 Flagship Models - Page 82 - AVS Forum
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post #2431 of 3705 Old 04-13-2013, 04:01 PM
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Exactly! The Eagle has landed! As nice as some plasma is at sometimes, its NOT the crystal, clear "looking out a window" that these good led / lcd's are all the time. Plaz is so early-mid 2000's....enough already. LOL

Whether you have the Es, F, Elite or hx...the reality is we are at the dawn of a new era and when we all start shopping again in 3,4 years...we'll be debating over who is the most badazz 4k/oled. Life is good baby!!!

Right now there are a handfull of great panels to keep us busy and among the top 5 led/lcd its splitting hairs. I could live with any of the top tier lcd's.

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post #2432 of 3705 Old 04-13-2013, 04:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bladerunner1959 View Post

I expect the brightness of the F8500 will result in IR. Cant wait to see the F8500 thread down the road. Will it be a battleground of F8500 lovers bickerering vs remorsees with IR all over the place??? ..not to mention dither dither doo!

IR: the second reason my cash will never go to plasma.

The f8500 is brighter because the rib of the pixel is larger, letting more light out. Owners are not reporting IR
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post #2433 of 3705 Old 04-13-2013, 05:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Bladerunner1959 View Post

Exactly! The Eagle has landed! As nice as some plasma is at sometimes, its NOT the crystal, clear "looking out a window" that these good led / lcd's are all the time. Plaz is so early-mid 2000's....enough already. LOL

Whether you have the Es, F, Elite or hx...the reality is we are at the dawn of a new era and when we all start shopping again in 3,4 years...we'll be debating over who is the most badazz 4k/oled. Life is good baby!!!

Right now there are a handfull of great panels to keep us busy and among the top 5 led/lcd its splitting hairs. I could live with any of the top tier lcd's.

Do you think a LCD edge lit is better than a plasma in P.C. ? When you look out your window, do the leafs on the tree SHINE like glass, or only on your LCD. Take your LCD out of TORCH mode and look at a proper picture. Then you can calibrate the set for even a more proper picture. Here in Canada when we see CRYSTAL on a leaf, we smoke it. wink.gif

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post #2434 of 3705 Old 04-13-2013, 05:41 PM
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Originally Posted by PiratesCove View Post

I believe I did see some mild Image Retention at Best Buy.

Review of the F8500 and its seriously large contrast ratio and very accurate colors:

http://www.televisioninfo.com/content/samsung-f8500-review-2

Seriously large contrast ratio ? are you kidding ?.... worst contrast ratio among any of its competitors. The 3rd level Panasonic (ST60) is better in contrast ratio, let alone the VT or ZT. Brightness, yes, contrast ratio... no.
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post #2435 of 3705 Old 04-13-2013, 06:10 PM
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Winston, there will be I.R.

Donloz...really? Okay, i'll bite...hey mr. SkypeINmyRoom, how do you know what my settings are? Canadians...yoy

LOL jk

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post #2436 of 3705 Old 04-13-2013, 07:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bladerunner1959 View Post

Winston, there will be I.R.

Donloz...really? Okay, i'll bite...hey mr. SkypeINmyRoom, how do you know what my settings are? Canadians...yoy

LOL jk

Very sorry if I rubbed you the wrong way. Post just SOUNDED too much like TORCH settings You are correct, I don't know your settings.. IMO go plasma. Get a correct picture. smile.gif I have 3 Sammies LED, my next set is plasma, because there is a BETTER DIFFERENCE. I have nothing wrong about you being from the GREAT USA, EH!!! smile.gif yoy

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post #2437 of 3705 Old 04-13-2013, 08:15 PM
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Donloz, peace. Let torch N.Korea.

Some peeps like a plasma. Some don't. To me, good plasma looks correct and you know your watching great tv. Imo, on my tv , and other great lcd's, sometimes you are so engaged in the viewing experience you feel like your there as opposed to watching a great tv.

Listen, i wouldn't consider it torture to be forced to own a vt50 or a f8500, but its not my preference.

Hey, no worries...nothing in this world rubs me the wrong way except taxes, losing money and idiot decisions at the office. Boo yah!

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post #2438 of 3705 Old 04-13-2013, 08:49 PM
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The F7100 was displayed prominently at the Best Buy in Glenview, IL - not in the magnolia section. The 55 F8000 was displayed way up high. When is the 60 being released?
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post #2439 of 3705 Old 04-13-2013, 08:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PiratesCove View Post

I saw the F8500 (plasma) today and its an incredible HDTV.

Its bright like a LED, yet had excellent off-axis viewing.

The black level looked good in a dark setting, yet okay for day-light viewing.

The motion, color and resolution was outstanding.

The F8000 does suffer from a limited viewing angle, so the F8500 has an advantage.

The F8500 did suffer from Auto Brightness Limiter to some degree.

Let me know when they make one larger than 65"... cool.gif

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post #2440 of 3705 Old 04-13-2013, 09:01 PM
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Originally Posted by chanster View Post

The F7100 was displayed prominently at the Best Buy in Glenview, IL - not in the magnolia section. The 55 F8000 was displayed way up high. When is the 60 being released?


I found a site that had the UN60F800 with a May 8th shipping date which leads me to believe that the 65" will be later than that. Another site, value electronics says 4/15. I hope they are right. 5/8 seems too far off.
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post #2441 of 3705 Old 04-13-2013, 09:30 PM
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Originally Posted by chanster View Post

The F7100 was displayed prominently at the Best Buy in Glenview, IL - not in the magnolia section. The 55 F8000 was displayed way up high. When is the 60 being released?

Funny you mention that. The Best Buy I was in the other night had one of the 6000 series models prominently displayed at eye-level on an end-cap for all to see, yet the F8000 was high up above another set.
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post #2442 of 3705 Old 04-13-2013, 09:57 PM
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Hey guys,

I've got a 46 inch ES8000 just sitting in my room (still new in the unopened box) I'm going to return this Monday.

I spoke to my buddy at Best Buy and he informed me they are expecting the 46F8000 on the 16th.

I'm going to ask about this banning business too. Sounds so absurd.
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post #2443 of 3705 Old 04-13-2013, 11:27 PM
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Originally Posted by eagle_2 View Post

Funny you mention that. The Best Buy I was in the other night had one of the 6000 series models prominently displayed at eye-level on an end-cap for all to see, yet the F8000 was high up above another set.

It seems to be this way at all the BB's that I have been to and that amounts to four stores

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post #2444 of 3705 Old 04-14-2013, 01:18 AM
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It is worth to pat the difference of money (about 800€) for the UE55F8000 instead of the UE55ES8000 model?
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post #2445 of 3705 Old 04-14-2013, 01:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PiratesCove View Post

I saw the F8500 (plasma) today and its an incredible HDTV.

Its bright like a LED, yet had excellent off-axis viewing.

The black level looked good in a dark setting, yet okay for day-light viewing.

The motion, color and resolution was outstanding.

The F8000 does suffer from a limited viewing angle, so the F8500 has an advantage.

The F8500 did suffer from Auto Brightness Limiter to some degree.


I had the privilege of seeing a 64"F8500 Plasma right beside the 65"ES8000 in Magnolia a few days ago. I can tell you this much, I am no Plasma fan by any means but that TV has made me want to try that set out! The picture was incredible. Made the ES look bad and I saw all the flaws of an LED when set beside Samsung's new Plasma. I have a 55"D8000 LED and it made my TV look bad and I have it calibrated. I made sure to turn each TV to movie mode and made some adjustments close to what settings are commonly used just to get somewhat of a ballpark look and the F8500 just stomped a mud hole in the ES8000. I know it is not a fair comparison, but even the ES9000 did not compare P.Q. wise. I am not saying all plasmas are good, but the new F8500 Plasma is THE BEST HDTV I have seen so far as the whites are very good like an LED. No image retention on the TV's I saw. Slight ABL as you mentioned, but not enough to turn me away from picking the F8500 over the F8000. I can manage with a few of Plasma's flaws for the PQ I saw when the F8500 was play the Game of Thrones. I agree with your every word, it is an INCREDIBLE T.V.
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post #2446 of 3705 Old 04-14-2013, 02:09 AM
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I'm going to ask about this banning business too. Sounds so absurd.

Personally I would love to know what threshold is required to hit the ban. Is it based on number of returns? Number of returns in a given amount of time? Dollar amount of returns over a period of time? I know Best Buy has no control over this - the tracking and dispensing of bans is handled by "The Retail Equation" - Best Buy just prints the ban slip and hands it to you. At least if you got some kind of warning as you were approaching the ban - say 2 more returns in 2 months and you hit the limit - but they tell you nothing until you get hit. And it's retroactive. You can buy a tv or blu-ray player or whatever on Monday, then return a DVD on Friday still sealed, and if that's the return that hits the limit, bam! - you can't return that set you bought on Monday for any reason - even if defective. It's absurd, and probably illegal in some if not many states. But until they're challenged by somebody with a lawyer, they will continue to run this program.

I heard other retailers are also thinking of looking into hiring this company for tracking returns - I believe one of the Home-Depot/Lowes type stores may use this also - but if you're banned from Best Buy, you're not banned anywhere else - it's on a per-store basis. It's still a lousy system, and if that's where things are going in retail, there will just be more stores closing their doors forever as people become afraid to make expensive purchases.
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post #2447 of 3705 Old 04-14-2013, 02:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Bladerunner1959 View Post

Exactly! The Eagle has landed! As nice as some plasma is at sometimes, its NOT the crystal, clear "looking out a window" that these good led / lcd's are all the time. Plaz is so early-mid 2000's....enough already. LOL

Whether you have the Es, F, Elite or hx...the reality is we are at the dawn of a new era and when we all start shopping again in 3,4 years...we'll be debating over who is the most badazz 4k/oled. Life is good baby!!!

Right now there are a handfull of great panels to keep us busy and among the top 5 led/lcd its splitting hairs. I could live with any of the top tier lcd's.

I have to somehow agree with Blade on this.
LEDs and specially Samsung LEDs have this CLEAR, PRECISE and WINDOW like feel to them. Plasma fans might think this is not real and that is true, but I feel it creates a nice effect. The only downside I see for Plasmas are brightness and IR. Hopefully the brightness is something many say got cured with the F8500.

The other thing about LED is that you do not have to baby your TV or be worried about IR, or worry that you should mix the contents to be watched. No. You just watch what you want at any ratio. Logo or no logo doesn't matter. Then with LEDs you have that super sleek design. I still prefer the design of ES8000 and the F8000 over their plasma cousins. very thin bezel and sexy.

Plasma though gives better contrast, better blacks and comes without the downside of edge lit technologies i.e. flashlights or clouds. Some here are concerned about the brightness pops of the F8500, but I feel this issue is exaggerated and is something subtle. I can live with it if it is mild and not very frequent.

I think both the technologies are good, have their shortcomings and it is to the user to decide which one he prefers.
I'm personally torn between the two of them. When I make up my mind to go ahead and buy a plasma then I just feel I will not get the clear window look of the LED and the ABSOLUTE freedom of watching anything that I want.
And when I decide to buy a LED again I feel I will miss the real life effect, the excellent contrast and the inky blacks of a plasma.

The decision is sooo difficult. but one thing I'm sure about is that Samsung will take my money no matter which technology I will choose.

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post #2448 of 3705 Old 04-14-2013, 02:25 AM
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Originally Posted by JSteel View Post

I had the privilege of seeing a 64"F8500 Plasma right beside the 65"ES8000 in Magnolia a few days ago. I can tell you this much, I am no Plasma fan by any means but that TV has made me want to try that set out! The picture was incredible. Made the ES look bad and I saw all the flaws of an LED when set beside Samsung's new Plasma. I have a 55"D8000 LED and it made my TV look bad and I have it calibrated. I made sure to turn each TV to movie mode and made some adjustments close to what settings are commonly used just to get somewhat of a ballpark look and the F8500 just stomped a mud hole in the ES8000. I know it is not a fair comparison, but even the ES9000 did not compare P.Q. wise. I am not saying all plasmas are good, but the new F8500 Plasma is THE BEST HDTV I have seen so far as the whites are very good like an LED. No image retention on the TV's I saw. Slight ABL as you mentioned, but not enough to turn me away from picking the F8500 over the F8000. I can manage with a few of Plasma's flaws for the PQ I saw when the F8500 was play the Game of Thrones. I agree with your every word, it is an INCREDIBLE T.V.

This is very encouraging.
Thank you for sharing your experience

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post #2449 of 3705 Old 04-14-2013, 06:44 AM
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Seriously large contrast ratio ? are you kidding ?.... worst contrast ratio among any of its competitors. The 3rd level Panasonic (ST60) is better in contrast ratio, let alone the VT or ZT. Brightness, yes, contrast ratio... no.

F8500: 10,470:1

http://www.televisioninfo.com/content/samsung-f8500-review-2

VT60: 8238:1

http://www.televisioninfo.com/content/panasonic-viera-vt60-television-review/the-science

F8000: 2400:1

http://www.televisioninfo.com/content/samsung-f8000-review/the-science
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post #2450 of 3705 Old 04-14-2013, 07:25 AM
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This whole blacker blacks thing is overrated. I often see that causes details to look ...just black while obscuring details we should be seeing.

I am sure the F8500 looks great in the store....but if i was shopping, i'm not so sure i'd roll the dice and play the return game, for a technology that has a proven track record with IR. I'm not buying into the fact that all of a sudden, in probably the last year of plasma, the infamous "I.R." is a cured non issue and nothing to worry about in what may be the brightest plasma ever.

The plasma characteristics and problems probably wont be truly realized until buyers are out of the ether and at the end or close to the end of the return period.

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post #2451 of 3705 Old 04-14-2013, 07:27 AM
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The reviews you are referencing are bunk, for the F8500 they took they highest brightness and the lowest black and extrapolated the contrast from those numbers... problem is you don't get that black with that brightness.... when it gets that bright it also floats the black higher.

Chad B - when reviewing found the ST60 contrast at 11,200:1 (calibrated) https://clevelandplasma.com/store/_2013_television_reviews_/panasonic_tc_pxxst60
Chad B - when reviewing found the F8500 contrast at 6034:1 (calibrated) http://www.avsforum.com/t/1450401/samsung-f8500-new-industry-standard-please-use-links-to-newer-thread/1230#post_23125865
Chad B - when reviewing found the VT50 (last years model) contrast at 8309:1 in 60hz and 10,554 in 96Hz mode (calibrated) http://www.avsforum.com/t/1408338/official-panasonic-vt50-owners-thread/360#post_22003210

So even if you use your bunk review for your F8500 number, its still not better than last years best tv, and is still worse than Panasonics 3rd from the top current tv.

Don't know about anyone else, but I put more stock in Chad B's review, and without knocking the F8500's outstanding achievement in brightness, the contrast ratio is not going to be a bragging point.
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post #2452 of 3705 Old 04-14-2013, 07:40 AM
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Originally Posted by pred1973 View Post

The reviews you are referencing are bunk, for the F8500 they took they highest brightness and the lowest black and extrapolated the contrast from those numbers... problem is you don't get that black with that brightness.... when it gets that bright it also floats the black higher.

Chad B - when reviewing found the ST60 contrast at 11,200:1 (calibrated)
Chad B - when reviewing found the F8500 contrast at 6034:1 (calibrated)
Chad B - when reviewing found the VT50 (last years model) contrast at 8309:1 in 60hz and 10,554 in 96Hz mode (calibrated)

So even if you use your bunk review for your F8500 number, its still not better than last years best tv, and is still worse than Panasonics 3rd from the top current tv.

Don't know about anyone else, but I put more stock in Chad B's review, and without knocking the F8500's outstanding achievement in brightness, the contrast ratio is not going to be a bragging point.

Thanks for the objective view point. Are Chad B's reviews on AVS?, if so please post the links.
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post #2453 of 3705 Old 04-14-2013, 07:56 AM
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Thanks for the objective view point. Are Chad B's reviews on AVS?, if so please post the links.

Edited my post to include them.
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post #2454 of 3705 Old 04-14-2013, 08:11 AM
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Originally Posted by pred1973 View Post

The reviews you are referencing are bunk, for the F8500 they took they highest brightness and the lowest black and extrapolated the contrast from those numbers... problem is you don't get that black with that brightness.... when it gets that bright it also floats the black higher.

Chad B - when reviewing found the ST60 contrast at 11,200:1 (calibrated)
Chad B - when reviewing found the F8500 contrast at 6034:1 (calibrated)
Chad B - when reviewing found the VT50 (last years model) contrast at 8309:1 in 60hz and 10,554 in 96Hz mode (calibrated)

So even if you use your bunk review for your F8500 number, its still not better than last years best tv, and is still worse than Panasonics 3rd from the top current tv.

Don't know about anyone else, but I put more stock in Chad B's review, and without knocking the F8500's outstanding achievement in brightness, the contrast ratio is not going to be a bragging point.

You might be talking on behalf of the 10% (or probably less) consumers who professionally calibrate their TVs.
I can say that I'm among the majority of the average users who buy their sets and tune the settings themselves. Probably many average users don't even know what the calibration word itself means.

The point is that out of the box settings is what most of the users stick to, Yes there are those who play with the settings but I think majority of people just use the presets that are there already.

So going back to the average users, what they look into a TV the moment they go in a shop is: 1- How bright is the TV, 2- How vibrant are the colors and 3- How sharp the TV looks.
Now Panasonic Plasmas can have very good contrast colors, but they are far from brightness and sharpness. Now why they look so dull, soft and dim I have no idea and that is what makes any average user move away from them. Now this is not an opinion but a fact and the biggest proof to it is the financial losses Panasonic is having in the past few years even though their TVs were getting great reviews with high recommendations.

So in other words these calibration numbers will be meaningless to the average users and what matters is what their own eyes will tell.
F8500 as a TV combines between the inky blacks of a plasma and the brightness of a LED might be a good option for those who were not satisfied with shortcomings of either technology. With the sharpness and the brightness it exhibits I'm sure It will sell easier than Panasonic models.

I don't want to undermine Panasonic's line of production but I think they are only concentrating on the black levels. What is the difference between ST, GT, VT and ZT? A few digits in their black levels? Again I can't say the average user will understand that. Panasonic's mistake is that its whole plasma line of production is targeted towards a smaller segment of users. Samsung on the other hand is trying to attract LED users to adopt Plasma technology with their F8500. They want to widen their customer range for plasma.

This year Samsung has clearly said that Plasma is not just about how blacker the TV can be, but also how brighter it can get.
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post #2455 of 3705 Old 04-14-2013, 08:17 AM
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Edited my post to include them.

Thanks, its all about new information.
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post #2456 of 3705 Old 04-14-2013, 08:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Halimali View Post

You might be talking on behalf of the 10% (or probably less) consumers who professionally calibrate their TVs.
I can say that I'm among the majority of the average users who buy their sets and tune the settings themselves. Probably many average users don't even know what the calibration word itself means.

The point is that out of the box settings is what most of the users stick to, Yes there are those who play with the settings but I think majority of people just use the presets that are there already.

So going back to the average users, what they look into a TV the moment they go in a shop is: 1- How bright is the TV, 2- How vibrant are the colors and 3- How sharp the TV looks.
Now Panasonic Plasmas can have very good contrast colors, but they are far from brightness and sharpness. Now why they look so dull, soft and dim I have no idea and that is what makes any average user move away from them. Now this is not an opinion but a fact and the biggest proof to it is the financial losses Panasonic is having in the past few years even though their TVs were getting great reviews with high recommendations.

So in other words these calibration numbers will be meaningless to the average users and what matters is what their own eyes will tell.
F8500 as a TV combines between the inky blacks of a plasma and the brightness of a LED might be a good option for those who were not satisfied with shortcomings of either technology. With the sharpness and the brightness it exhibits I'm sure It will sell easier than Panasonic models.

I don't want to undermine Panasonic's line of production but I think they are only concentrating on the black levels. What is the difference between ST, GT, VT and ZT? A few digits in their black levels? Again I can't say the average user will understand that. Panasonic's mistake is that its whole plasma line of production is targeted towards a smaller segment of users. Samsung on the other hand is trying to attract LED users to adopt Plasma technology with their F8500. They want to widen their customer range for plasma.

This year Samsung has clearly said that Plasma is not just about how blacker the TV can be, but also how brighter it can get.


I'm sorry you don't hold any value to objective and accurate numbers. Calibration gives an objective, accurate and repeatable method to determine a tv's true abilities. A statement was made regarding the F8500's "excellent" contrast ratio. Without malice, I provided contrary evidence, and even while doing that still managed to throw in an acknowledgment to its excellent accomplishment in brightness levels. Your comments about Panasonic as a company and its goals are simply your opinion, and really without basis. If you think their current financial woes are a result of product failure or consumer rejection then I believe that you are really jumping to a faulty conclusion. If you examine facts a little more carefully, you will see that the value of the yen has been a huge driver, and that recovering from a Tsunami was economically draining not only on Panasonic, but most Japanese electronics companies. The VT50 was deemed best tv last year, not by me, but by a panel of people who have much more experience and qualifications than you or I. If the ill-informed, or uneducated tv buyer is a majority, I don't see that as a benefit.
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post #2457 of 3705 Old 04-14-2013, 09:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bladerunner1959 View Post

This whole blacker blacks thing is overrated. I often see that causes details to look ...just black while obscuring details we should be seeing.

Try telling that to THX and ISF.

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post #2458 of 3705 Old 04-14-2013, 11:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Halimali View Post

I have to somehow agree with Blade on this.
LEDs and specially Samsung LEDs have this CLEAR, PRECISE and WINDOW like feel to them. Plasma fans might think this is not real and that is true, but I feel it creates a nice effect. The only downside I see for Plasmas are brightness and IR. Hopefully the brightness is something many say got cured with the F8500.

The other thing about LED is that you do not have to baby your TV or be worried about IR, or worry that you should mix the contents to be watched. No. You just watch what you want at any ratio. Logo or no logo doesn't matter. Then with LEDs you have that super sleek design. I still prefer the design of ES8000 and the F8000 over their plasma cousins. very thin bezel and sexy.

Plasma though gives better contrast, better blacks and comes without the downside of edge lit technologies i.e. flashlights or clouds. Some here are concerned about the brightness pops of the F8500, but I feel this issue is exaggerated and is something subtle. I can live with it if it is mild and not very frequent.

I think both the technologies are good, have their shortcomings and it is to the user to decide which one he prefers.
I'm personally torn between the two of them. When I make up my mind to go ahead and buy a plasma then I just feel I will not get the clear window look of the LED and the ABSOLUTE freedom of watching anything that I want.
And when I decide to buy a LED again I feel I will miss the real life effect, the excellent contrast and the inky blacks of a plasma.

The decision is sooo difficult. but one thing I'm sure about is that Samsung will take my money no matter which technology I will choose.

For me, as far as plasma goes, it's not just the brightness so much that's an issue, it's the instability of the brightness, due to the ABL, and Samsung seems to have many more issues than Panasonic based on my own experience, when it comes to brightness stability in their plasmas. Far too many aggressive brightness pops which become annoying real fast when trying to get into what you're watching.
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post #2459 of 3705 Old 04-14-2013, 11:36 AM
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Buzzard767, i am far beyond caring about thx and isf b.s.

Love for all things Hi-def...Losing count; 200 plus bluray, 500 plus dvd, 30 plus HDdvd and a rapidly growing 50 plus in the cloud.

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post #2460 of 3705 Old 04-14-2013, 11:58 AM
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Competition brings innovation. With Panasonic leaving plasma development, you have to wonder what Samsungs next move will be. Personally, I think LED has a lot more potential than plasma.

Samsung seems to be improving uniformity on the 2013 models. It will be very interesting to see what next years Samsung G8000 LED will be like.
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