Samsung F8000 -- 2013 Flagship Models - Page 97 - AVS Forum
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post #2881 of 3703 Old 05-01-2013, 07:16 PM
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Barth2k, i would never want to sacrifice what you say..."Of course none of these will have that ultra sharp, clear look of the Samsung LED. Such is life."...just for blacker blacks or a wider viewing angle. This core quality combo is why i love my ES (and i'm sure i,'d love an F) and give lots of latitude regarding the Sammy weak points.

Love for all things Hi-def...Losing count; 200 plus bluray, 500 plus dvd, 30 plus HDdvd and a rapidly growing 50 plus in the cloud.

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post #2882 of 3703 Old 05-01-2013, 08:06 PM
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Originally Posted by RMSko View Post

Great summary eagle, thanks. Where do you think 4K comes out in this - is it the perfect technology (putting aside cost, which will come down)?

I know very little about 4k and OLED so far, but I doubt it's the perfect technology. I read last year that OLED may in fact have similar image retention issues as plasma. I don't know if that's really correct, but I did read it somewhere last year. I'm certain that OLED will have growing pains, and the first few generations of sets will likely have many issues as it will be a new technology for these companies. Even this late into LCD and plasma we're facing issues.

Personally, I'm not convinced 4k is necessary. 1080p looks pretty astounding, and from what I see, the biggest thing that detracts from image quality is compression. I have tons of HD channels but most look rather awful, certainly up close, where you can see just how bad the compression is on these channels. Look at Youtube - sure they have 1080p now, but look at the bitrate - it's compressed so highly that it looks awful with all the macroblocking and artifacting. I think how are cable companies going to handle 4k when they can't even handle 1080p without high compression? And as it is, my DVD collection still looks pretty great on my 1080p set - but on 4k, I'm pretty certain they will look like garbage by then since the DVD resolution will only be a tiny little fraction of the full resolution of the set. And I think most people won't care enough to spend money all over again on yet another format of movies (4k) when most people are perfectly happy with 1080p (heck, many people in general still think DVD is good enough). I think 4k will have a very hard time penetrating the market - it certainly won't be a mainstream item for a very long time.
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post #2883 of 3703 Old 05-01-2013, 08:15 PM
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Originally Posted by adgrimes View Post

Although getting a 7100 you sacrifice control over the Smart LED dimming feature correct? Obviously it still has dimming, just always on. Wonder if they leave it on a "normal" setting thats hidden?


Eagle-- I'm at the point where I believe I'm keeping my set BUT seeing the free tablet(in BB details it states only for purchases after sale date), I really could use it as my last tablet was a dud(asus transformer prime 2..wifi issues). Greystone Appliances price has dropped their price again too so I'm going to try and tell best buy BOTH things and see if I can't get one or the other.

Well I went into the same Best Buy tonight I originally bought the F8000 from around 11 days ago. I had to get the set swapped anyways because of the dead pixel/s, so I asked if I could get the tablet. At first they said there shouldn't be a problem, but then remembered that they gave me the price match to Abe's because they were the same salespeople who helped me when I got the price match, so they weren't willing to give me the table too. They said it's wither the price match or the tablet. They said maybe if the price-match hadn't been so much - but it was too much for them to give me the tablet. I think my undoing was going to the same store again where they same guys would remember doing the price-match and clearing it through the manager. I think maybe if I tried a different store, maybe somebody else who hadn't gone through the price-match already with me might have done it perhaps. they told me it wasn't because I had already bought the set, but rather it was the rice match that prevented me from getting the tablet tonight.

From what I understand they only price-match once per purchase, and that's it. Tonight they were willing to give me the tablet until they remembered the price-match they gave me. Let us know how you make out if you try. I could still maybe try another store for the tablet since nothing has changed really, but I don't know if it's worth the bother. I know somebody who the tablet would make a great gift for later this year.

Correct about the 7100 - it will still have the dimming, but without SMART LED there will be no way to control it, which is where the F8000 seems like it has a real benefit over the others.
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post #2884 of 3703 Old 05-01-2013, 08:37 PM
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Regarding SMART LED, dimming, and black levels: I'm really beginning to think, as surprised as I am, that the best way to help the image quality on this set might be to use SMART LED on LOW. Here's the reason:

Having SMART LED off in standard (I've been using standard as my preference currently) virtually eliminates auto-dimming, or the effect of dimming the whole screen down when displaying darker scenes, in order to improve black levels. However, there are 2 unfortunate side-effects of leaving SMART LED off. 1) - the black aren't very impressive with it off. The letterbox bars in particular are disappointingly greyish. Not nearly black like you would like it to be. But in general, blacks just aren't that great with SMART LED off, and that goes for the main image too, not just the letterbox bars. Enabling SMART LED on Low makes a rather impressive improvement in the black levels. Immediately, the bars are darker, and blacks throughout look better. I realize that it is because of the dimming that the blacks are improved, but the bottom line is blacks look much better with it on. It actually improves the blacks, as opposed to Black Tone, which just crushes black, and does nothing to help it.

But another interesting reason to leave SMART LED on is 2) - with SMART LED off, the panel has an annoying habit of instantly turning off the screen when it gets a black screen like a fade-to-black, or black screen between credits. This is very sharply handled, and looks just like the tv just turned off. It's very distracting how blatant it is when it turns off the screen. BUT, if you enable SMART LED to LOW, that drastically improves how it handles that effect. With it enabled, it still turns off the screen when it displays all black, but now, it very quickly and neatly just "turns to black" - for lack of a better description. It doesn't look like the set just instantly turned off - it seems to very quickly fade to off, so quickly and smoothly that it just looks like the screen faded to black, rather than abruptly turning off when a fade-to-black occurs. I've watched the difference now many times on different content tonight - even on Survivor, there were multiple fades-to-black at commercial breaks, and the new Star Trek trailer had many quick fades to black. In all cases, it was handled much smoother and more naturally with SMART LED on.

Because of the improved black levels, and the far better handling of fades to black, I'm beginning to think I may end up leaving this feature on. While I do hate the auto-dimming of the panel (certain scenes make it very obvious that the panel and the bars fluctuate in brightness as the LEDs brighten and dim), the benefits are starting to seem important enough that I'm thinking I may leave it on for a while and see how I tolerate it. SMART LED on low thankfully seems rather less aggressive than how it was implemented last year on the ES7500. Another reason why I think having the SMART LED setting is important - at least we have some control this year.

But really, if you want decent blacks, and want smoother and better-handled fades to black, try SMART LED on low.
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post #2885 of 3703 Old 05-01-2013, 09:21 PM
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Something else - regarding Auto Motion Plus. As I've been mentioning I've been having an issue with custom mode stuttering and forcing the soap opera effect, even with judder reduction on 0 and blur reduction on 10. Well, tonight on Survivor, I tried it again on custom, and even on Survivor, the tv stuttered fairly regularly. About 20 minutes in I turned AMP off completely - and it no longer stuttered for the rest of the show. I'm convinced that AMP, and custom in particular, is not functioning properly.

Also - and this is really weird - I've noticed that the forced soap opera effect, which happens in custom with judder on 0, happens whenever I play a file encoded in 25.000 fps (PAL). Yup, every single 25.000 media file I've played from my 2 media players or my blu-ray player results in a very strong soap opera effect, meaning AMP is forcing motion interpolation, even though judder is on 0 and it's receiving 60Hz from the players. I've tried a number of different framerates, and so far only 25.000 files result in this happening - and it happens on every single 25.000 file - standard def, high-def, avi, mkv, DVD VOB, doesn't matter. 29.970 (NTSC) framerates played back at 60Hz from the player, and 23.976 played back at both 24Hz and 60Hz are all fine - no motion interpolation.

Now the weirdest thing - those same exact files, played back directly in the F8000's built-in media player through a USB flash drive (Sandisk Cruzer) plays with no soap opera effect with custom AMP of judder=0, blur=10, even though they are the same 25.000 files that play with soap opera effect when played from a media player over HDMI in custom AMP. The motion appears normal.

How can this be? What is going on here? Why are the files being hit with frame interpolation on AMP custom when played externally over HDMI but play fine with no interpolation on AMP custom when played with the internal player? I can't imagine why this is happening. Any ideas? I can't even imagine trying to explain this to Samsung - they would have no clue what I was talking about if I called tech support over this - but something is going on with AMP.
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post #2886 of 3703 Old 05-01-2013, 09:28 PM
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That is very interesting. I was wondering what difference micro dimming would have sense the TV is edge lit. I asked FlatpanelsHD to measure the black level with smart LED turned on and with it turned off (so far every review has only measured the native black without micro dimming). After reading your findings I'm eager to see what they get.
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post #2887 of 3703 Old 05-01-2013, 09:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eclipsegt View Post

That is very interesting. I was wondering what difference micro dimming would have sense the TV is edge lit. I asked FlatpanelsHD to measure the black level with smart LED turned on and with it turned off (so far every review has only measured the native black without micro dimming). After reading your findings I'm eager to see what they get.

Yeah, I really hope both flatpanelsHD and CNET do a thorough job of looking into these things. Many reviews only scratch the surface and never mention in depth how many of these functions actually affect the image. The issue I'm noticing concerning custom AMP with 25.000fps video for instance - I doubt very much that flatpanelsHD or CNET would ever discover that, since they're unlikely to throw a 25.000 file at it played back over HDMI from an external player. Yet for those of us who do that, they will find this weird issue. Reviews only go so far.
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post #2888 of 3703 Old 05-01-2013, 09:43 PM
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Hi Eagle ,

So , you now have your 2nd F8000 ? / Great , I want to wish you the best of luck. smile.gif

Sorry you you missed out on your tablet , take your sales slip to another store and just say that it slipped your mind , and you were thinking about the new tv. wink.gif

Yes me too , I have my "Smart LED" set to low , personally , I thinks the blacks are great , of course I am going from a CCFL / LCD , that is 7+ years old , so that might have something to do with it. I mean we really can`t thank Samsung for doing something right , now can we !! LOL

I need to know more from you please post any and all info , ( well about the tv biggrin.gif )

Did you do the software update ? , there is a new one that came out yesterday , well 4/30.

I have not done any software updates at all.

Should I update the software ?

Also could you please relink me to the Samsung standard remote that will work with the F8000 , thanks.

What about the wireless KB :

http://www.amazon.com/Samsung-VG-KBD2000-Wireless-Keyboard/dp/B00BMMPPBE/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pd_nS_nC?ie=UTF8&colid=EX93TXY1XJBI&coliid=I12HZ88E4HZJZL

Also , you now way more about Samsung stuff than me , since I am an NFG , with owning a Samsung product, I like this remote because it just kind of fits the whole style of the tv it self :

http://www.amazon.com/Samsung-Universal-Remote-Control-3DTVs/dp/B0099CHEAY/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_S_nC?ie=UTF8&colid=EX93TXY1XJBI&coliid=I2N0HP6IGJ9I9K

One last thing do you have a game console ?
I do not , however long before the F8000 came out , I have been think about the PS-3.

Good / bad / completely sucks ? Granted I am not over joyed by the new design , but I used to have the old original " PS-1 " , along with other consoles before that ( my favorite was the Panny 3DO , the original 1st generation )

OK ________ , thanks , and like I said , best of luck to `ya !

Later smile.gif

Gary 
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post #2889 of 3703 Old 05-01-2013, 09:53 PM
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Just tried a PAL DVD (25.000fps) in my region-free player, connected like everything else via HDMI, and AMP custom of judder=0, blur=10 causes the soap opera effect, even with PAL DVD playback from a DVD player. Anything PAL causes this issue. Turning AMP off results in normal playback. Looks like if this doesn't get fixed, there will be no using blur reduction for PAL content.
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post #2890 of 3703 Old 05-01-2013, 09:59 PM
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Anyone have calibrated settings for standard mode using a calman or similar tool?
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post #2891 of 3703 Old 05-01-2013, 10:02 PM
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OK guy`s , time to put your thinking caps on !! biggrin.gif

I need a TV / DVD super genius who can hack into either my Pioneer DV-79 AVi or the F8000 and disable the software kernel ( command ) that activates DVI before HDMI.

Of course we all know it should be the other way around , first look for HDMI then look for DVI , but noooo , Samsung had to go and muck this up too.

Still no audio from the DV79 via HDMI to the F8000 , it is just not going to happen. Last night I tried standing on my head while eating soup and changed cables and it still did not help ! LOL = joke , I really was not eating soup ! LOL biggrin.gif

OK -- there it is guy`s , if this set turns out to be stable , I need a HT super tech / hacker.

Thanks __ O and __BTW , the both can be hacked , I just don`t have all the info needed ( service manuals for both would be a start ! )

Later smile.gif

Me 
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post #2892 of 3703 Old 05-01-2013, 10:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jedi29 View Post

Hi Eagle ,

So , you now have your 2nd F8000 ? / Great , I want to wish you the best of luck. smile.gif

Sorry you you missed out on your tablet , take your sales slip to another store and just say that it slipped your mind , and you were thinking about the new tv. wink.gif

Yes me too , I have my "Smart LED" set to low , personally , I thinks the blacks are great , of course I am going from a CCFL / LCD , that is 7+ years old , so that might have something to do with it. I mean we really can`t thank Samsung for doing something right , now can we !! LOL

I need to know more from you please post any and all info , ( well about the tv biggrin.gif )

Did you do the software update ? , there is a new one that came out yesterday , well 4/30.

I have not done any software updates at all.

Should I update the software ?

Also could you please relink me to the Samsung standard remote that will work with the F8000 , thanks.

What about the wireless KB :

http://www.amazon.com/Samsung-VG-KBD2000-Wireless-Keyboard/dp/B00BMMPPBE/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pd_nS_nC?ie=UTF8&colid=EX93TXY1XJBI&coliid=I12HZ88E4HZJZL

Also , you now way more about Samsung stuff than me , since I am an NFG , with owning a Samsung product, I like this remote because it just kind of fits the whole style of the tv it self :

http://www.amazon.com/Samsung-Universal-Remote-Control-3DTVs/dp/B0099CHEAY/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_S_nC?ie=UTF8&colid=EX93TXY1XJBI&coliid=I2N0HP6IGJ9I9K

One last thing do you have a game console ?
I do not , however long before the F8000 came out , I have been think about the PS-3.

Good / bad / completely sucks ? Granted I am not over joyed by the new design , but I used to have the old original " PS-1 " , along with other consoles before that ( my favorite was the Panny 3DO , the original 1st generation )

OK ________ , thanks , and like I said , best of luck to `ya !

Later smile.gif

Gary 

Well, they're delivering the new replacement set next week.

Yeah, I'm going to maybe try another store for the tablet - I've got nothing to lose. Luckily, the store that arranged for my swap didn't ask for my license to process the return, which means that it shouldn't be tracked by The Retail Equation and count towards the ban limit, which is great news. They always said they need to see your license for all returns and exchanges, but they arranged for the swap and never asked for my license, and they said it was processed as a return and re-bought the set.

I did the software update - I mentioned it in the owner's thread. I've seen no difference or improvement since the update - but be ready - the update will wipe out all your settings and reset the tv - I had to put all my settings back in again after the update. Samsung was sloppy about this once last year too, and it wiped out all the settings once. It shouldn't happen, but it does sometimes.

The wireless keyboard from Samsung is waaay too expensive. From what I understand any bluetooth keyboard and mouse should work, but I haven't tried it myself.

I don't have any links for the proper remote - but I do have the model #'s of the remotes:

AA59-00431A - remote for D8000
AA59-00638A - remote for ES8000

The difference - D8000 remote older - different key layout and different style keys - no fancy smarthub logo for smarthub button, just a plain button. It does have the very useful P. Size button, to switch picture aspect ratios (4:3. 16:9, Screen Fit, etc.) - sadly the ES8000 remote left this useful button off.

The ES8000 remote has a newer-style smarthub button, slightly longer, slightly better illumination, different button layout, no P. Size button. Both have 3D buttons for quick 3D access.

Another remote you may want to consider - I still have the old QWERTY remote I bought for the D7000 plasma I tried out way back. I bought the Asian version on Ebay for around $40, new and sealed, compared to Samsung's price of $100 for the US version. It's identical other than the Asian writing - but it's very obvious what most of the buttons are for anyways, so you can just ignore the Asian text. Check Ebay for "Samsung QWERTY remote" to see them - they're more expensive now because Samsung no longer uses them so they're not as in-demand, but the remote looks pretty stunning, especially the very bright multi-colored illumination. Great feel to the keys too - very high quality all-around. Maybe Samsung still offers the US version, but it's probably still $100 if they do. If you like the remote, and can get a good deal, I can say it's pretty awesome. The keyboard side no longer works with these newer sets, but the standard remote side is fully-functional with the F8000 - I already tried it - all the buttons work - the channel buttons even still control my cable box through the link cable. The standard side uses IT, not bluetooth, and it runs on 4 AAA batteries. But I still like the standard the best - it was the remote I used most of the time.

Also, I just took a look at that other remote you linked to - very nice, and I imagine this would work perfectly also. I haven't seen that one before. I'm sure it will be fine. I might actually go with that one - it seems to have all the buttons you need, including P. Size and 3D, plus it's illuminated, probably better than the ES8000 remote was. Only concern is the buttons all blend together - it might be more difficult to tell what button you're on, as opposed to the individual buttons on the ES800 remote. Still, for the price, it looks real nice. It's even cheaper by various sellers on Ebay - but with Amazon if you end up not liking it you can always return it. Thanks for that link.

I don't have a game console - I use my PC for gaming.

So, are you keeping the new set then I guess? Is it working out for you? I know you were having audio issues. Hope everything is working out for you.

EDIT: Just checked that remote you linked to on Amazon - this should definitely work fine. The "content" button or the "Media" will be your "smarthub" button.
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post #2893 of 3703 Old 05-01-2013, 10:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jedi29 View Post

OK guy`s , time to put your thinking caps on !! biggrin.gif

I need a TV / DVD super genius who can hack into either my Pioneer DV-79 AVi or the F8000 and disable the software kernel ( command ) that activates DVI before HDMI.

Of course we all know it should be the other way around , first look for HDMI then look for DVI , but noooo , Samsung had to go and muck this up too.

Still no audio from the DV79 via HDMI to the F8000 , it is just not going to happen. Last night I tried standing on my head while eating soup and changed cables and it still did not help ! LOL = joke , I really was not eating soup ! LOL biggrin.gif

OK -- there it is guy`s , if this set turns out to be stable , I need a HT super tech / hacker.

Thanks __ O and __BTW , the both can be hacked , I just don`t have all the info needed ( service manuals for both would be a start ! )

Later smile.gif

Me 

Oh boy, that's where you lost me. Afraid I can't help you with that one. Hopefully somebody in here will be able to help you out but I don't know anything about that stuff.
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post #2894 of 3703 Old 05-01-2013, 11:09 PM
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Originally Posted by eagle_2 View Post

Well I went into the same Best Buy tonight I originally bought the F8000 from around 11 days ago. I had to get the set swapped anyways because of the dead pixel/s, so I asked if I could get the tablet. At first they said there shouldn't be a problem, but then remembered that they gave me the price match to Abe's because they were the same salespeople who helped me when I got the price match, so they weren't willing to give me the table too. They said it's wither the price match or the tablet. They said maybe if the price-match hadn't been so much - but it was too much for them to give me the tablet.

I'm sure it was because the price match was so large. I just bought a Slingbox from Best Buy the other day, and they price matched it for me and still gave me the $15 Best Buy gift card that was included in the promo.
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post #2895 of 3703 Old 05-02-2013, 12:59 AM
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I know very little about 4k and OLED so far, but I doubt it's the perfect technology. I read last year that OLED may in fact have similar image retention issues as plasma. I don't know if that's really correct, but I did read it somewhere last year. I'm certain that OLED will have growing pains, and the first few generations of sets will likely have many issues as it will be a new technology for these companies. Even this late into LCD and plasma we're facing issues.

Personally, I'm not convinced 4k is necessary. 1080p looks pretty astounding, and from what I see, the biggest thing that detracts from image quality is compression. I have tons of HD channels but most look rather awful, certainly up close, where you can see just how bad the compression is on these channels. Look at Youtube - sure they have 1080p now, but look at the bitrate - it's compressed so highly that it looks awful with all the macroblocking and artifacting. I think how are cable companies going to handle 4k when they can't even handle 1080p without high compression? And as it is, my DVD collection still looks pretty great on my 1080p set - but on 4k, I'm pretty certain they will look like garbage by then since the DVD resolution will only be a tiny little fraction of the full resolution of the set. And I think most people won't care enough to spend money all over again on yet another format of movies (4k) when most people are perfectly happy with 1080p (heck, many people in general still think DVD is good enough). I think 4k will have a very hard time penetrating the market - it certainly won't be a mainstream item for a very long time.

I'm excited about OLED. It seems like a mix between plasma and LED - pros of both with little of their negatives - but it's too expensive at the moment. I don't exactly want to spend 15,000 dollars on a TV. But when they start reaching affordable levels, I'll eagerly check them out.

4K is pointless right now, especially if you don't intend to buy a 86" television. Because our eyes can only see so much detail, when viewing the television from a proper couch distance we can't exactly tell the difference between the two resolutions. It only becomes obvious if you get close enough to see the individual pixels, which is why higher resolutions benefit monitors more than they do televisions. 1080p still hasn't seen perfect content implementation with television channels, either, and I don't even want to think about streaming 4K content on my internet connection. The status and penetration of broadband in America isn't great. And only recently have the majority of households bought an HD television. Now the industry wants them to upgrade to a new format again, after trying and failing with 3D? I don't see that happening or 4K Blu-rays dominating any shelf space soon.

Then of course there are games. The upcoming consoles aren't powerful enough to run modern games at 4K, so 1080p gaming on that front isn't going anywhere fast.
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post #2896 of 3703 Old 05-02-2013, 02:46 AM
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I'm excited about OLED. It seems like a mix between plasma and LED - pros of both with little of their negatives - but it's too expensive at the moment. I don't exactly want to spend 15,000 dollars on a TV. But when they start reaching affordable levels, I'll eagerly check them out.

4K is pointless right now, especially if you don't intend to buy a 86" television. Because our eyes can only see so much detail, when viewing the television from a proper couch distance we can't exactly tell the difference between the two resolutions. It only becomes obvious if you get close enough to see the individual pixels, which is why higher resolutions benefit monitors more than they do televisions. 1080p still hasn't seen perfect content implementation with television channels, either, and I don't even want to think about streaming 4K content on my internet connection. The status and penetration of broadband in America isn't great. And only recently have the majority of households bought an HD television. Now the industry wants them to upgrade to a new format again, after trying and failing with 3D? I don't see that happening or 4K Blu-rays dominating any shelf space soon.

Then of course there are games. The upcoming consoles aren't powerful enough to run modern games at 4K, so 1080p gaming on that front isn't going anywhere fast.

To be fair to 3D (and I'm biased because I'm a life-long fan), Hollywood has done everything they could to sour people's opinion of 3D. They've flooded the market with lousy 3D conversions early on, endless G-rated animated shows, and less-than impressive 3D photography, both in terms of poor pop-out and also poor draw distance. It's like Hollywood has no idea how to use the stereo window effectively. 50's 3D films, and even the 80's revival, had far better depth to them. There are some exceptions, and it's great to finally see some ( a few) of the classics come to 3D blu-ray (Creature from the Black Lagoon, House of Wax, Dial M For Murder). But they've even messed with one of those (they totally shifted the stereo window for Creature from the Black Lagoon, for no apparent reason other than to make it more in-your-face 3D, even though it was perfectly filmed as it was). And the cost of a 3D ticket is outrageous. They had the full support of the entire tech industry - for the first time ever 3D home viewing was a reality supported by all major tv companies. And yet Hollywood still mucked it up. I think there may still be a chance to save it - people were rightfully impressed with Hugo and the Titanic conversion - but too many people have seen too much bad 3D, and many don't feel forgiving enough to try it again if they have a bad experience.

I agree 4k streaming isn't even a possibility any time in the foreseeable future, based on bandwidth caps and broadband speed. And yeah, game systems aren't ready for 4k. Again, forget resolution - focus on increasing interaction with environments and other variables that can increase the feeling of reality in games, instead of just pixel count. My girlfriend's folks just upgraded to HDTV 3 years ago - in fact, me too, come to think of it. OLED might hold some promise, but 4k is a pipe-dream for the foreseeable future. For now, how about less compression and better 3D to make 1080p the best it can be instead of the race for more pixels/resolution.
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post #2897 of 3703 Old 05-02-2013, 03:56 AM
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I just happened to stumble onto this video from a while back, and it's promises like the ones made in this video that annoy me with Samsung:

http://videos.huffingtonpost.com/tech/samsungs-microdimming-f8000-led-review-517633198

In the video, he says Micro-Dimming allows dimming of precise areas of the screen, allowing better black levels and better contrast, without being detrimental to either the darker or lighter areas of the image. That's complete bull. SMART LED / MicroDimming works by dimming the LEDs - but this is an edge-lit set, so no matter how Samsung wants to spin it, the bottom line is that to dim an area of the screen, it needs to dim LEDs that affect an entire area of the screen. How can it dim an edge LED and dim only the center of the screen for instance but not the edges? It can't, because it uses guides to spread the light from the edges to the entire panel. It can't dim an area in the middle of the screen without dimming the entire area that is affected by that particular LED. You can see what's happening when SMART LED is engaged - it dims the entire panel during darker scenes, which most certainly affects both the lighter and darker areas of the screen. During a dark scene, I can literally see the darker areas get even darker - and not just the blacks getting blacker, but the whole image dimming, including whatever brighter areas are on screen. The blacks aren't getting blacker so much as the whole screen gets darker, dimming the whites, and with it the black, making the blacks appear blacker. When my FiOS box is off, I get a "screensaver" Verizon message in white text jumping around the screen. With SMART LED off, the black screen is not so black, but the white text is very white and bright. With SMART LED on, the black screen is quite a bit blacker/darker, but the entire white Verizon text is noticeably dimmer - not as white and bright - because the whole screen is dimmed. How is that not detrimental to the image?

I don't mean to sound like I'm totally bashing the set. But It just bugs me to see them make claims like that. SMART LED might be necessary to get the image they promise, but it never fully delivers on their promises.
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post #2898 of 3703 Old 05-02-2013, 05:26 AM
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Hi Eagle,

Thanks for the info about the remote that I linked , it is a very nice looking one , it is good to now that it would work with the F8000 !

Ya`h , I know the Samsung bluetooth KB is over priced , and as far as using any bluetooth KB yes you can , I have tried my Mac bluetooth and it does work , however you must hunt for the right buttons and I can`t use the KB with the F8000 and my Mac Mini at the same time.

Samsung told me before I bought the 1st one " yes you can turn off the bluetooth KB or Mouse" as I explained that if I was using my MM , then I would have to disable the F8000 bluetooth , there reply " sure you can do that " turns out Samsung was same old same old , because once you sync a BT device , that is it , there is no turn it off on the F8000 , so when ever you turn the tv on the bluetooth device will hook up.

Am I going to keep it ?

Your guess is as good as mine ! , I am on my second day and still trying to figure it out , sure the blacks are good , and yes the picture looks fine , but of how long ?

I guess I would run into that problem no matter what I ended up with.

But I am still have little annoyances pop up , like I said I can`t get audio from my dvd player to the F8000 , but I can from my MM , but now I don`t get the start-up chime from my MM anymore.

It might be a satisfactory tv , but it has all these little bugs that make it hard to really like or really enjoy.

Whether or not I keep this is going to be a real tuff call , I have no idea , as I mentioned , there is a new up-date that came out on 4/30 , but I have no clue if I should update or not.
I probably will , because if it is a keeper , then at some point you will have to upgrade the software to stay current , I just don`t want the new software to mess with my picture. On Samsung`s website it states that the update improves picture quality , well that would certainly not be the first time they were wrong !!

I don`t now confused.gif

O__thanks for the Qwerty remote info , I must check that out ! biggrin.gif

So next week for you , ok ! , well you must keep us posted , I will do the same smile.gif

Take care , and thank again !

Later ,

Gary 
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post #2899 of 3703 Old 05-02-2013, 06:09 AM
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Eagle_2: http://www.amazon.com/Samsung-Universal-Remote-Control-3DTVs/dp/B0099CHEAY/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_S_nC?ie=UTF8&colid=EX93TXY1XJBI&coliid=I2N0HP6IGJ9I9K

That remote is the same 1 i have & it's from my C8000 plasma, it's great cause it's really well light @ night compared to the standard ES8000 remote which is dim.
I didn't know you could get that remote so cheap, i'll be grabing 1 since it's well built, it's a heavy remote making it feel expensive & the buttons on the remote remind me of the on old RAZER clamshell cellphone buttons.

BTW
Yahoo! & CC button do Nothing on the remote.
media.p, content & internet tv buttons all do the same thing & that's open up smart hub.

Man this ALWAYS PISSES me OFF, look @ the price when shopping in canada on amazon
http://www.amazon.ca/Samsung-Universal-Remote-Control-3DTVs/dp/B00AXET978/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1367501346&sr=8-1&keywords=Samsung+3D+TV+Universal+Remote+Control

SEK-2000/ZA....Any GOOD ?
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I just connected my F8000 to the internet and when I opened the Smart Hub, it started deleting all my apps except the web browser. "Deleting expired apps" was the popup.

Apparently it tied the apps to the firmware. Once I updated my firmware, the primary apps returned. I had to re-download several others.
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post #2901 of 3703 Old 05-02-2013, 11:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jedi29 View Post

Hi Eagle,

Thanks for the info about the remote that I linked , it is a very nice looking one , it is good to now that it would work with the F8000 !

Ya`h , I know the Samsung bluetooth KB is over priced , and as far as using any bluetooth KB yes you can , I have tried my Mac bluetooth and it does work , however you must hunt for the right buttons and I can`t use the KB with the F8000 and my Mac Mini at the same time.

Samsung told me before I bought the 1st one " yes you can turn off the bluetooth KB or Mouse" as I explained that if I was using my MM , then I would have to disable the F8000 bluetooth , there reply " sure you can do that " turns out Samsung was same old same old , because once you sync a BT device , that is it , there is no turn it off on the F8000 , so when ever you turn the tv on the bluetooth device will hook up.

Am I going to keep it ?

Your guess is as good as mine ! , I am on my second day and still trying to figure it out , sure the blacks are good , and yes the picture looks fine , but of how long ?

I guess I would run into that problem no matter what I ended up with.

But I am still have little annoyances pop up , like I said I can`t get audio from my dvd player to the F8000 , but I can from my MM , but now I don`t get the start-up chime from my MM anymore.

It might be a satisfactory tv , but it has all these little bugs that make it hard to really like or really enjoy.

Whether or not I keep this is going to be a real tuff call , I have no idea , as I mentioned , there is a new up-date that came out on 4/30 , but I have no clue if I should update or not.
I probably will , because if it is a keeper , then at some point you will have to upgrade the software to stay current , I just don`t want the new software to mess with my picture. On Samsung`s website it states that the update improves picture quality , well that would certainly not be the first time they were wrong !!

I don`t now confused.gif

O__thanks for the Qwerty remote info , I must check that out ! biggrin.gif

So next week for you , ok ! , well you must keep us posted , I will do the same smile.gif

Take care , and thank again !

Later ,

Gary 

Don't trust the update info - it can't be trusted. Say for instance 5 updates ago it actually did "improve picture quality" - well for the remainder of the updates that come out for however many years for this set, it will always have that listed, because I believe that the updates are cumulative - you don't need every update in-between to bring the tv to it's most recent - the latest update will always update the set to it's most recent version, without needing other updates installed in order first - so when you see things on the list, it doesn't mean that every update they improve picture quality some more - it just means that at some point, one of the updates that is now rolled into the latest one did. I have the latest update and I saw no improvement of any kind. My smarthub reset and startup options are still messed up, which is being discussed over on the owner's thread.

I think for the cost of this set, you should feel that it's more than "satisfactory". I feel the same way. If I hadn't gone through who knows how many issues and defective sets and exchanges with these Samsung sets since I first bought my D7000, I might be a little more impressed with the image. Now, I'm so tired of it all, I just want it to be over - I'm sick of having tv issues - I just want one I can enjoy, not troubleshoot weekly. The image is very nice indeed - rather stunning really - and the whole tv seems really slick - but it's full of issues and bugs, and relies on tricks and dimming to give the blacks it promises, and never delivers its promise of super high contrast ratios - because bottom line is I can't have a deep black screen with some bright white text on it without the whole panel dimming down and affecting the brightness of the text - so it's a lie. And AMP is totally broken as far as I'm concerned - Samsung needs to hear about this. Custom is just plain messed up, which means no blur reduction because it causes nothing but issues.

Still, I doubt if anybody else has anything better. Good luck as you experiment more with the set. I hope you end up satisfied.

BTW I really like that remote you linked to - look on Ebay - there are a ton of sellers from Asia that have it new for a crazy price - that's how I got my QWERTY remote and everything went through just fine - just check the ratings and see their score first and read a few comments. I might go that route - free shipping and ultra-cheap - same remote.
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post #2902 of 3703 Old 05-02-2013, 11:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OugaBooga View Post

Eagle_2: http://www.amazon.com/Samsung-Universal-Remote-Control-3DTVs/dp/B0099CHEAY/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_S_nC?ie=UTF8&colid=EX93TXY1XJBI&coliid=I2N0HP6IGJ9I9K

That remote is the same 1 i have & it's from my C8000 plasma, it's great cause it's really well light @ night compared to the standard ES8000 remote which is dim.
I didn't know you could get that remote so cheap, i'll be grabing 1 since it's well built, it's a heavy remote making it feel expensive & the buttons on the remote remind me of the on old RAZER clamshell cellphone buttons.

BTW
Yahoo! & CC button do Nothing on the remote.
media.p, content & internet tv buttons all do the same thing & that's open up smart hub.

Man this ALWAYS PISSES me OFF, look @ the price when shopping in canada on amazon
http://www.amazon.ca/Samsung-Universal-Remote-Control-3DTVs/dp/B00AXET978/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1367501346&sr=8-1&keywords=Samsung+3D+TV+Universal+Remote+Control

Yeah it looks like an awesome remote - that's the one I plan to get, and it looks like the illumination is far better than the one I had for my ES7500. That was very poorly illuminated.
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post #2903 of 3703 Old 05-02-2013, 11:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AGuy01 View Post

I just connected my F8000 to the internet and when I opened the Smart Hub, it started deleting all my apps except the web browser. "Deleting expired apps" was the popup.

Apparently it tied the apps to the firmware. Once I updated my firmware, the primary apps returned. I had to re-download several others.

How inconvenient. Lovely. These sets really shouldn't be updating automatically if automatic updates are turned off. That seems to be happening over on the owner's thread. Imagine waking up and finding out it auto-updated and wiped out your settings like this last update did? Then instead of watching tv you're spending the next hour putting your settings back in again.
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post #2904 of 3703 Old 05-02-2013, 11:43 AM
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Hi Eagle ,

Too late frown.gif

I had set the auto software to off , and it updated anyway mad.gif = confused.gif

Now every time the tv turns on , a window pops up stating my camera in not ready.

I deactivated both speech and camera.

Man I have to tell you , it has only been hooked up now for about 52 hours ( not on all that time ) , and I am running into so many brick walls , my head hurts ! LOL

Why on earth would Samsung ever make a tv like the F8000 , well I said it before , is beyond me.

As each hour goes by , I look at the big beautiful picture and wonder what else is going to mess up.

Now and there was a separate update for the camera , that is probably why I keep getting that stupid message box on startup.

Also , it did the software automatically , even though it is off.

You got me , but thanks anyway for the heads up , I am just sorry the tv can not do what it`s told !

Later smile.gif

Gary 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jedi29 View Post

Hi Eagle ,

Too late frown.gif

I had set the auto software to off , and it updated anyway mad.gif = confused.gif

Now every time the tv turns on , a window pops up stating my camera in not ready.

I deactivated both speech and camera.

Man I have to tell you , it has only been hooked up now for about 52 hours ( not on all that time ) , and I am running into so many brick walls , my head hurts ! LOL

Why on earth would Samsung ever make a tv like the F8000 , well I said it before , is beyond me.

As each hour goes by , I look at the big beautiful picture and wonder what else is going to mess up.

Now and there was a separate update for the camera , that is probably why I keep getting that stupid message box on startup.

Also , it did the software automatically , even though it is off.

You got me , but thanks anyway for the heads up , I am just sorry the tv can not do what it`s told !

Later smile.gif

Gary 

I get that annoying pop-up window too about the camera, even though the motion feature is turned off. It updated the camera software last night automagically. Samsung needs to wake up.

I think we need to start calling Samsung and reporting these issues - it's the only way to get them to fix these things. They won't do it on their own. Call the toll-free number and tell them. They answer quite quickly actually - it's just that once they answer the phone they are totally incompetent. But at least they answer the phones quickly. People need to call and tell them not to update these sets if updates are turned off. They need to hear about the camera message constantly popping up on startup. And they need to hear about the AMP stuttering issues. Call, people.
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post #2906 of 3703 Old 05-02-2013, 12:09 PM
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For some reason my "on TV" settings are available again now when they were greyed out earlier today. I can't figure it out.
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Hi Eagle ,

Last Saturday night I was on the phone with a level 2 Samsung tech , he told me " I have to look into the problem and call you back" , so about a half hour later I received the call , it was then that he told me " you have a defective dvd player and there is no way to get audio from a computer with an HDMI cable hooked up to the F8000".

When I received my 2nd , I still got now sound , it was then I decided to just call it something other than PC or PC-DVI , after I did that , I got sound. Why the heck there level 2 support could not at least suggest that , well I just don`t know.

Level 2 support ? how about level - 2 !

I don`t know my friend , there is nobody to call , at least not a number for tech support that is going to do any good.

My next call to Samsung will be the main office , right to the top !

This BS has gone on long enough.

I really don`t know what to do , this s a tuff call as to it being a keeper .

Does have a good picture , but that is it , I would buy the 55" XBR in a heart beat if I had the room.

Later smile.gif

Gary 
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post #2908 of 3703 Old 05-02-2013, 12:45 PM
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I know, their tech support is dismal. "Tier 2" is supposed to be better but it really isn't. I've been promised return calls in the past and never received them. Next up from there is "executive consumer relations" - or ECR. Then it's the Office of the President, but don't expect any favors from them - I hit a road block and an exceptionally rude employee at the Office of the Prersident. In the end it was back to the ECR, and they are the ones that got me the repairs and ultimately my refund on my old set. But it's not easy to get to ECR. They really handle things like refunds and other serious issues once things get escalated far enough. Tier 2 is supposed to be the ones who offer the helpful tech advice, but in my experiences they don't know what they're talking about most of the time.
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Thanks for the info Eagle , yes tier 2 support at Samsung is a joke !!

Later smile.gif

Gary 
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Hey Eagle , what is the Tel Number , please , thanks.

Me 
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