Official Vizio M-Series Razor Mxx1i thread - Page 13 - AVS Forum
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post #361 of 9703 Old 05-20-2013, 04:41 PM
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Originally Posted by yao View Post

i assume it's because the TV is edge lit. uniformity is often a problem with edge lit LCDs and something one might consider a design flaw inherent with the all edge lit t.v....
but ya, we have yet to see how much of an issue it is.

I thought these have local dimming
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post #362 of 9703 Old 05-20-2013, 05:35 PM
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Honestly not trying to start an argument, but I did say "possible" uniformity issues. I didn't go on to explain ...with a Vizio edge lit panel.

I'm pretty sure Sony and Sammy use MEMC two times to quadruple the refresh rate to 240hz, whereas Vizio, LG, & Toshiba use MEMC to get to 120hz, then "backlight scanning" to get a 240hz "effect."

Personally I don't care much about 120hz or 240hz. 120 gets me the even divisor for 24p and 60hz content to avoid judder...unless the source already does the 3:2 pulldown frown.gif

My main concern is ghosting and pixel response time. I currently have a 120hz Vizio SV420M. It's also CCFL backlit. I find the response time isn't that great, even in game mode with all interpolation turned off to reduce lag inherent from image rendering. I'm generally not the greatest playing a first person shooter like Black Ops 2. Usually I'm lucky to break even on the "k/d ratio."

However, I played the same game on a 240hz Samsung and doubled or tripled my k/d ratio every time and never lost a game! I couldn't stop playing it was so addicting to always get off that first shot before anyone had a chance!

I'm not sure why the TV was faster....perhaps it wasn't the 240hz refresh...perhaps the image processor renders faster or the response time is lower on the newer Samsung vs my 3 year old Vizio? Keeping all things the same, the TV was the only variable.
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post #363 of 9703 Old 05-20-2013, 05:38 PM
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There is a 'local dimming' option for edge lit...I think 16 zones. I know it isn't as effective as direct lit.
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post #364 of 9703 Old 05-20-2013, 06:01 PM
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Isn't everything in this segment edge lit? Also though the R550 was fake 240 as well. Is this being compared with TVs double it's price?
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post #365 of 9703 Old 05-20-2013, 06:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sonicfrequency View Post

Honestly not trying to start an argument, but I did say "possible" uniformity issues. I didn't go on to explain ...with a Vizio edge lit panel.

I'm pretty sure Sony and Sammy use MEMC two times to quadruple the refresh rate to 240hz, whereas Vizio, LG, & Toshiba use MEMC to get to 120hz, then "backlight scanning" to get a 240hz "effect."

Personally I don't care much about 120hz or 240hz. 120 gets me the even divisor for 24p and 60hz content to avoid judder...unless the source already does the 3:2 pulldown frown.gif

My main concern is ghosting and pixel response time. I currently have a 120hz Vizio SV420M. It's also CCFL backlit. I find the response time isn't that great, even in game mode with all interpolation turned off to reduce lag inherent from image rendering. I'm generally not the greatest playing a first person shooter like Black Ops 2. Usually I'm lucky to break even on the "k/d ratio."

However, I played the same game on a 240hz Samsung and doubled or tripled my k/d ratio every time and never lost a game! I couldn't stop playing it was so addicting to always get off that first shot before anyone had a chance!

I'm not sure why the TV was faster....perhaps it wasn't the 240hz refresh...perhaps the image processor renders faster or the response time is lower on the newer Samsung vs my 3 year old Vizio? Keeping all things the same, the TV was the only variable.

Not to be a smartass about it, but were you playing on those two different sets in the same location? Internet connection makes a much larger difference than any input lag you'll notice between tv's.

Read. Think. Post. In that order, preferably

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post #366 of 9703 Old 05-20-2013, 06:11 PM
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unfortunately, yes.

for whatever reason, manufacturers have decided that back-lit is reserved only for the highest end stuff, which is really too bad.

check out models from a few years ago and you'll find back-lit LED models in the mid/low end of TV models in addition to the high. the lower end ones won't have local dimming of course, but IMO probably have better uniformity than most edge lit models.
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post #367 of 9703 Old 05-20-2013, 06:41 PM
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Originally Posted by bbexperience View Post

Not to be a smartass about it, but were you playing on those two different sets in the same location? Internet connection makes a much larger difference than any input lag you'll notice between tv's.

That's a serious consideration. Good insight.

We definitely test the internet connection. Our pings are around 25ms to the same server. We are in the same town. We both have the same WAN ISP (RoadRunner) tested at 20+ mbps dl and 1+ mbps ul. The consoles were both hardwired to a router > modem. Neither of us had any clients on our LAN at the time.
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post #368 of 9703 Old 05-20-2013, 06:44 PM
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Originally Posted by sonicfrequency View Post

My main concern is ghosting

I have to agree with you on this one For Sure! My 70" Sharp was HORRIBLE with ghosting and maybe the current 70" Sony need adjusting but the display at Costco is CRAZY horrible when it comes to ghosting.

I have 3 things that are dealbreakers ... Ghosting, Banding and DSE (Dirty Screen Effect) !!!

The ghosting is horrible for sports and I am a huge sports guys ... the Banding just drives me nuts when I see the light sky or green field and all these weird background lines are going across the screen, and the current e-series tv's are notorious for the DSE ... I have had 2 of em now (70") and they both suck when it comes to this.

I have had rough luck lately since starting my TV quest with these 3 things ... I PRAY that this new M-Series doesn;t suffer form these issues.

I am ok with a little clouding, flashlighting etc. etc. cause being edgelit that just comes with the territory but these other are things that are just bad internal parts and quality control in my opinion so I hope Vizio pulls their head out there ass and makes a quality product with this new line.

My last 55" Vizio XVT series from a few years was rear-array and is an AMAZING TV ... they need to start make quality like that again ... I know this is edge-lit vs. rear-array but damn they should have come close to perfecting this damn panel by now ... Hope they did it on this one!
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post #369 of 9703 Old 05-20-2013, 06:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yao View Post

unfortunately, yes.

for whatever reason, manufacturers have decided that back-lit is reserved only for the highest end stuff, which is really too bad.

check out models from a few years ago and you'll find back-lit LED models in the mid/low end of TV models in addition to the high. the lower end ones won't have local dimming of course, but IMO probably have better uniformity than most edge lit models.

I've been watching this set for a while. It is direct lit: http://www.walmart.com/ip/Samsung-UN55EH6030-55-1080p-120Hz-Class-LED-3.7-ultra-slim-3D-HDTV/21998225.

Edited:
This set doesn't have "local dimming" or "micro dimming" though. Only the ES7100 and above does.

http://www.amazon.com/Samsung-UN55EH6030-55-Inch-1080p-120Hz/dp/B0083KGX8M
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post #370 of 9703 Old 05-20-2013, 06:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by falconman515 View Post

I have to agree with you on this one For Sure! My 70" Sharp was HORRIBLE with ghosting and maybe the current 70" Sony need adjusting but the display at Costco is CRAZY horrible when it comes to ghosting.

I have 3 things that are dealbreakers ... Ghosting, Banding and DSE (Dirty Screen Effect) !!!

The ghosting is horrible for sports and I am a huge sports guys ... the Banding just drives me nuts when I see the light sky or green field and all these weird background lines are going across the screen, and the current e-series tv's are notorious for the DSE ... I have had 2 of em now (70") and they both suck when it comes to this.

I have had rough luck lately since starting my TV quest with these 3 things ... I PRAY that this new M-Series doesn;t suffer form these issues.

I am ok with a little clouding, flashlighting etc. etc. cause being edgelit that just comes with the territory but these other are things that are just bad internal parts and quality control in my opinion so I hope Vizio pulls their head out there ass and makes a quality product with this new line.

My last 55" Vizio XVT series from a few years was rear-array and is an AMAZING TV ... they need to start make quality like that again ... I know this is edge-lit vs. rear-array but damn they should have come close to perfecting this damn panel by now ... Hope they did it on this one!

I agree with everything you mentioned. I will stay tuned to this thread! Sorry for the flood of posts!
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post #371 of 9703 Old 05-21-2013, 10:11 AM
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My Vizio M551d (Amazon) was just delivered today. Looks great on the outside:) Going to set it up during lunch but won't really get to it for a few days. Will keep you posted about how it goes.
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post #372 of 9703 Old 05-21-2013, 10:48 AM
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"A FEW DAYS ?!?!!!? this is entirely intolerable.....how can you do this to your loyal following ?
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post #373 of 9703 Old 05-21-2013, 10:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris231 View Post

My Vizio M551d (Amazon) was just delivered today. Looks great on the outside:) Going to set it up during lunch but won't really get to it for a few days. Will keep you posted about how it goes.

Screen uniformity, black levels, banding/dse, and motion resolution are must to report back on.
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post #374 of 9703 Old 05-21-2013, 11:41 AM
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My Vizio M551d (Amazon) was just delivered today. Looks great on the outside:) Going to set it up during lunch but won't really get to it for a few days. Will keep you posted about how it goes.

LOL, I am convinced this is a joke and you really haven't received the TV!!
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post #375 of 9703 Old 05-21-2013, 12:11 PM
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I will take a photo after my son's DH baseball game tonight and post smile.gif
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post #376 of 9703 Old 05-21-2013, 12:37 PM
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It looks like Walmart is now carrying some sizes in stock as well, at least for online purchases.

55"
http://www.walmart.com/ip/VIZIO-M551d-A2R-55-1080p-240Hz-Razor-LED-Smart-HDTV/23991019

65"
http://www.walmart.com/ip/VIZIO-M651d-A2R-65-1080p-240Hz-Razor-LED-Smart-HDTV/23991021

Price is the same as Amazon
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post #377 of 9703 Old 05-21-2013, 01:33 PM
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wow... the t.v.'s are finally coming out... just need the 70 inch to pop up... take my money...
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post #378 of 9703 Old 05-21-2013, 01:57 PM
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Wonder how many potential buyers Vizio lost by releasing this TV about 6 weeks too late?...

I was on board at the beginning when the release date was "Q1", but waited and waited and finally just bought a different TV.
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post #379 of 9703 Old 05-21-2013, 02:08 PM
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Me too! Held out as long as I could for the 50" but bought an LG 47" instead and gotta say it is awesome. Sorry Vizio
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post #380 of 9703 Old 05-21-2013, 02:15 PM
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this tv has everything i want at the price range... so im going to be waiting a little bit longer... i hope it is worth it..
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post #381 of 9703 Old 05-21-2013, 02:58 PM
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this tv has everything i want at the price range... so im going to be waiting a little bit longer... i hope it is worth it..
I hope it is too. I understand for those people who are looking to buy the 70" or 80". Looks like (possibly) the best option for those people. But, for anyone else, there does not seem to be a reason to wait... At least there was not, for me personally. I keep checking back in, and can't believe the M-Series TVs are STILL not on the shelves yet.
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post #382 of 9703 Old 05-21-2013, 03:14 PM
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For the smaller range, if you had a choice between an E420d and a M401i, which would it be?

I bought a E420d for the bedroom about a month ago at Sam's and it seems decent. I haven't played around much with the 3D or Smart Apps yet. I'm just curious if the M series will be better overall in picture and quality than the E series. Thoughts?

I have 90 days to return it if the M series is indeed better.
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post #383 of 9703 Old 05-21-2013, 04:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Superguy25 View Post

For the smaller range, if you had a choice between an E420d and a M401i, which would it be?

I bought a E420d for the bedroom about a month ago at Sam's and it seems decent. I haven't played around much with the 3D or Smart Apps yet. I'm just curious if the M series will be better overall in picture and quality than the E series. Thoughts?

I have 90 days to return it if the M series is indeed better.


i would go with whatever is cheaper... quality might vary buy it is for the bedroom where most people have the tv on so they can fall asleep..
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post #384 of 9703 Old 05-21-2013, 04:04 PM
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I hope it is too. I understand for those people who are looking to buy the 70" or 80". Looks like (possibly) the best option for those people. But, for anyone else, there does not seem to be a reason to wait... At least there was not, for me personally. I keep checking back in, and can't believe the M-Series TVs are STILL not on the shelves yet.

I feel like it's the best option for 50" as well. At $800 and those specs I don't see any other close enough options. Am I missing something?
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post #385 of 9703 Old 05-21-2013, 07:30 PM
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I feel like it's the best option for 50" as well. At $800 and those specs I don't see any other close enough options. Am I missing something?
Agreed. Don't get me wrong, if the 50" can be had for $800 (MSRP is $850), I'd say that is a great deal. After tax though you are creeping towards the price of the 50" Panasonic ST60, which is undoubtably the TV of the year. The 55", 60", and 65" are also so close in price to the ST60 (and other comparitvely priced TVs) that it made it hard for me personally to wait around to even see what the M-Series have to offer. I do love options though, and really would have liked to see the Vizios in person and check out reviews before making my decision on my new TV... But the lack of a timely release completely took the M-Series off the table. I'm sure others who were/are in the market for a new 2013 model TV feel the same way.
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post #386 of 9703 Old 05-21-2013, 07:36 PM
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I bought the 55" Samsung 7050 from Costco. While the active 3d is nice my problem is it looks like it is going in the screen instead of popping out. Does passive have a better 3d effect. I am planning on returning the Samsung and getting the 70 m series when it is available.
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post #387 of 9703 Old 05-21-2013, 07:37 PM
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My Vizio M551d (Amazon) was just delivered today. Looks great on the outside:) Going to set it up during lunch but won't really get to it for a few days. Will keep you posted about how it goes.
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I will take a photo after my son's DH baseball game tonight and post smile.gif


Okay, I took a photo but do not have the time to post it tonight. But...after having the M3D550KD in our living room for a month before having to return it to Amazon (there was an issue with it having been sent to another store prior to Amazon which would make the warranty invalid), I am hoping that there are settings that will greatly improve the quality of the picture on our new M551d. The M3D550KD had a much better picture than the M551d that I received today. I am not familiar with all of the "tech speak" on televisions, but there is unacceptable flaring/edge lighting when the sides are supposed to be black and quite a bit of shadowing/pixeling(?) on the screen. I called Vizio and they had me switch out the HDMI cable and try another HDMI port, with no improvement. They wanted me to try to use component cable but I don't have the HD component, so I did not try that. Vizio had me call DISH to see if my signal was 1080 and DISH had me reset the receiver, which did not help at all. We tried a DVD in the player and the shadowing seemed to be better, but the edge flaring was still unacceptable. I am going to try to contact VIZIO again when I have time, but for now I am wishing I just had my M3D550KD back.

I have not done much as far as changing factory settings at this point. Any suggestions would be helpful.
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post #388 of 9703 Old 05-21-2013, 08:14 PM
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Okay, I took a photo but do not have the time to post it tonight. But...after having the M3D550KD in our living room for a month before having to return it to Amazon (there was an issue with it having been sent to another store prior to Amazon which would make the warranty invalid), I am hoping that there are settings that will greatly improve the quality of the picture on our new M551d. The M3D550KD had a much better picture than the M551d that I received today. I am not familiar with all of the "tech speak" on televisions, but there is unacceptable flaring/edge lighting when the sides are supposed to be black and quite a bit of shadowing/pixeling(?) on the screen. I called Vizio and they had me switch out the HDMI cable and try another HDMI port, with no improvement. They wanted me to try to use component cable but I don't have the HD component, so I did not try that. Vizio had me call DISH to see if my signal was 1080 and DISH had me reset the receiver, which did not help at all. We tried a DVD in the player and the shadowing seemed to be better, but the edge flaring was still unacceptable. I am going to try to contact VIZIO again when I have time, but for now I am wishing I just had my M3D550KD back.

I have not done much as far as changing factory settings at this point. Any suggestions would be helpful.
Try changing setting to "custom" or "movie" and then check the "smart dimming" if it is adjustable. These adjustment will help with backlight issues by lowering backlight uniformity.
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post #389 of 9703 Old 05-21-2013, 08:49 PM
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Okay, I took a photo but do not have the time to post it tonight. But...after having the M3D550KD in our living room for a month before having to return it to Amazon (there was an issue with it having been sent to another store prior to Amazon which would make the warranty invalid), I am hoping that there are settings that will greatly improve the quality of the picture on our new M551d. The M3D550KD had a much better picture than the M551d that I received today. I am not familiar with all of the "tech speak" on televisions, but there is unacceptable flaring/edge lighting when the sides are supposed to be black and quite a bit of shadowing/pixeling(?) on the screen. I called Vizio and they had me switch out the HDMI cable and try another HDMI port, with no improvement. They wanted me to try to use component cable but I don't have the HD component, so I did not try that. Vizio had me call DISH to see if my signal was 1080 and DISH had me reset the receiver, which did not help at all. We tried a DVD in the player and the shadowing seemed to be better, but the edge flaring was still unacceptable. I am going to try to contact VIZIO again when I have time, but for now I am wishing I just had my M3D550KD back.

I have not done much as far as changing factory settings at this point. Any suggestions would be helpful.
I hope fine tuning the settings makes everything right, or (sorry for sounding like an A*S) that you received a faulty set. I want to love this tv so much, I just hope these new M-series aren't just a "too good to be true" type of deal...
Besides the edge lighting/flaring, how is the picture quality? Is the flaring only during a dark/black screen, or is it even bad when bright scene's are on?
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post #390 of 9703 Old 05-21-2013, 09:05 PM
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In the past I have looked up the calibrations for my televisions online and had great luck, but since this is so new I'm sure there's nothing out there. I am quite picky as these things go. The rest of my family may say that things look fine, but I have found that it is worth taking the time to get the adjustments correct.

The Picture Mode choices are different on this Vizio: Standard, Calibrated, Calibrated Dark, Vivid, Game and Computer. I often like to watch in a "movie" mode so I think the "calibrated dark" is the closest to what I'm used to. I have the following choices under the Advanced Picture Menu: Auto Brightness Control (off, low, med, high), Black Detail (off, l, m, h), Smart Dimming (on or off), Smooth Motion Effect (off, l, m, h), Reduce Signal Noise (off, l, m, h), Reduce Block Noise (off, l, m, h), Film Mode (off, auto). There is also a menu for Color Temperature which includes the usual color adjustments as well as a color temperature adjustment (normal, computer, custom, cool).

Changing the smart dimming helped with the edge issue. Could the shadowing/pixeling have to do with the Smooth Motion Effect? In the past, I've also noticed that our HD tvs seem to take time to "burn in" and the picture often looks better after a few weeks. Can I hope for this???

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sony dhg-hdd250 , Vizio 32 Inch Smart Led Hdtv , Vizio 55 Inch Class Theater 3d Edge Lit Razor Led Lcd Hdtv M3d550sl , vizio m401i-a3 40" hdtv , Vizio M471i A2 47 Inch Smart Led Hdtv , Vizio M551d A2r 55 Inch 3d Smart Led Hdtv , Vizio M601d A3r 60 Inch 3d Smart Led Hdtv , Vizio M651d A2r 65 Inch 3d Smart Led Hdtv , Vizio M701d A3r 70 Inch 3d Smart Led Hdtv , Vizio M801d A3 80 Inch 3d Led Hdtv

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