Official Vizio M-Series Razor Mxx1i thread - Page 241 - AVS Forum
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post #7201 of 9527 Old 01-17-2014, 07:01 PM
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Look at my previous posts and how I've helped others on this board before you chastise.


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post #7202 of 9527 Old 01-17-2014, 07:08 PM
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so does your set actually look like that, or did you have to adjust the settings/camera to try and reproduce it?  and where is the "No Signal" text lol

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post #7203 of 9527 Old 01-17-2014, 07:17 PM
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Yep. Look at my original pics on the last page. The no signal just doesn't show up on my iphone 5 camera, another example of how different cameras show things. None of my pics ever pick up the "no signal" text, but it's there in person.

Getting the camera in the sweet spot helps too. I didn't change anything except, I did notice when I switched to this HDMI input that nothing is connected to, that smart dimming was OFF on this input. I made sure it was on and took the pic. It actually looks better now, but the camera doesn't always show what the eyes see, and vice versa.

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post #7204 of 9527 Old 01-17-2014, 07:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ktx49 View Post
 

again, my set just does not have noticeable flashlighting...I've actively looked for the effect during credits etc for several months now  because I feared I also bought a bad set and I just don't see it.  

Give me an example of something I can take a picture of that would show flashlighting regardless of my settings and I will happily try it.  i think this is the best way to end this mess.

 

One guy says its the "No Signal" image, one guy says its the local-dimming, and another guy says its lighting/camera.  so how about giving me something I can display(and take a pic of) that will create flashlighting if it exists?

 

and is it possible that having Smart Dimming turned OFF is creating the flashlighting problem since you noticed marked improvements with it turned ON.

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post #7205 of 9527 Old 01-17-2014, 07:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ktx49 View Post

ok so i know this may make a lot of people jealous considering all the reported issues with blooming/bleeding/flashlighting but I just wanted to show people that not all sets have this issue....in fact, mine has none at all.






as you can see, my screen is so black that you cannot even tell its there....my brightness and backlight settings are not turned down or anything unreasonable either.  as you can see, i waited to take this picture in low light conditions that would amplify any sort of flashlighting and blooming.  this is the 60in model.

That does look very good but it does come into question if your camera isn't misleading us. What camera are you using?

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post #7206 of 9527 Old 01-17-2014, 07:25 PM
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grrrrrrrrrrr.

oh my god, you think I would go through all of this if it was just an illusion created by my camera????  i mean come on guys, these kind of comments are really started to insult my intelligence.

 

THIS IS HOW MY SET LOOKS IN PERSON for the 100th time.  why would I post a picture and talk about the lack of flashlighting if it was just a camera-trick?  this is just laughable stuff.

 

i mean instead of asking what settings im using, or my serial number, or firmware or setup people are interested in what camera I used and treating me like I'm trying to "mislead" you guys with images of my TV.  and to make it worse, I have people doubting the accuracy of the image at the same time other people are saying the "No Signal" screen is not going to display flashlighting in the first place.  i just dont get this.  I'm trying to show people what my set looks like so they can tell if theres is up to par and people are treating me like I'm a con-artist or something because my TV doesnt have much of a flashlight problem?  

 

sheesh

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post #7207 of 9527 Old 01-17-2014, 07:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ktx49 View Post
 

Give me an example of something I can take a picture of that would show flashlighting regardless of my settings and I will happily try it.  i think this is the best way to end this mess.

 

One guy says its the "No Signal" image, one guy says its the local-dimming, and another guy says its lighting/camera.  so how about giving me something I can display(and take a pic of) that will create flashlighting if it exists?

 

and is it possible that having Smart Dimming turned OFF is creating the flashlighting problem since you noticed marked improvements with it turned ON.

 

It turns out that the "No Signal" image always uses local-dimming. Toggling local-dimming has no effect until you get a video signal. This is why I hooked my laptop up and had it put pure black on the screen in order to actually get all the backlights to fire while trying to display black. Who knows what other cases Vizio will automatically force local-dimming for you.

 

Flashlighting with the local-dimming is not an issue on my screen for the "No Signal" image. Here's a picture with backlights at 100, local dimming enabled, and auto-brightness disabled- there's a very, very faint horizontal bar intersecting the "No Signal" image, that I can sort of see with my eye.

 

 

 

Bottom line- if you want to demonstrate backlight uniformity:

1. Disable local dimming

2. Disable auto brightness

3. Set brightness to 100 for max effect

4. Use a laptop, USB drive, or video of some kind to provide a pure black video feed.

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post #7208 of 9527 Old 01-17-2014, 08:15 PM
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Womper,

 

appreciate a serious reply....so if the "No Signal" screen is not going to have any issues, how can you explain the dozens(?) of images in this thread showing terrible flashlighting on the exact screen?  How can you explain Jason turning Smart Dimming ON and being able to reproduce a very similar image to mine??  and I just tried it for myself, and you can 100% turn Smart Dimming ON/OFF without a signal, i can see the difference especially with the brightness cranked up all the way.

 

Quote:

Bottom line- if you want to demonstrate backlight uniformity:

1. Disable local dimming

2. Disable auto brightness

3. Set brightness to 100 for max effect

4. Use a laptop, USB drive, or video of some kind to provide a pure black video feed.

 

Why would I need to create totally unrealistic scenarios to reproduce flashlighting?  sorry but this is absurd....I may try this anyways just to see if it "kicks in" at some point, but PLEASE tell me all the people complaining in this thread about flashlighting aren't just sitting around actively trying to create the problem using your 4 steps??

 

 Anyways I just cranked up the brightness all the way and turned Smart Dimming OFF and I was able to produce barely perceivable traces of non-uniformity with my blacks coming from the corners but only after I stared at the screen for minutes at a time.

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post #7209 of 9527 Old 01-17-2014, 08:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ktx49 View Post
 

Womper,

 

appreciate a serious reply....so if the "No Signal" screen is not going to have any issues, how can you explain the dozens(?) of images in this thread showing terrible flashlighting on the exact screen?  How can you explain Jason turning Smart Dimming ON and being able to reproduce a very similar image to mine??  and I just tried it for myself, and you can 100% turn Smart Dimming ON/OFF without a signal, i can see the difference especially with the brightness cranked up all the way.

 

 

Why would I need to create totally unrealistic scenarios to reproduce flashlighting?  sorry but this is absurd....I may try this anyways just to see if it "kicks in" at some point, but PLEASE tell me all the people complaining in this thread about flashlighting aren't just sitting around actively trying to create the problem using your 4 steps??

 

 Anyways I just cranked up the brightness all the way and turned Smart Dimming OFF and I was able to produce barely perceivable traces of non-uniformity with my blacks coming from the corners but only after I stared at the screen for minutes at a time.

 

Shoot, we're probably fighting different firmware versions too, so just because my set decides to force local-dimming doesn't mean everyone's will. Heck, I used HDMI-1, maybe it's just a bug with that input only. I'm still getting used to the idea of TVs having firmware.

 

Anyways, the steps I listed are for truly testing your backlights (at least for my TV and its firmware). It is totally a ridiculous and unrealistic scenario, but it can still be informative as to why certain films or other usage cases exhibit crappy black quality. The goal is to come up with some average level of quality using a consistent testing method, so newcomers can look at the pictures and stop freaking out that this or that corner of their screen is grey-ish blue when the rest of the screen is nice and black. Also, I believe the "true backlight quality" ultimately determines how bad flashlighting appears when local dimming is enabled.

 

Hopefully these images will help other newcomers understand how to interpret the image quality and cool features like local-dimming.

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post #7210 of 9527 Old 01-17-2014, 10:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ktx49 View Post

My Settings:

Picture Mode:  GAME
-Backlight :     60
-Brightness:   45
-Contrast:       55
-Color:            41
-Tint:                -1
-Sharpness:   20

Color Temp:  CUSTOM
-Red Gain:         140
-Green Gain:     117
-Blue Gain:        130
-Red Offset:       131
-Green Offset:   129
-Blue Offset:      128

Advanced Picture
-Auto Brightness:   OFF
-Black Detail:         OFF
-Smart Dimming:   ON
-Smooth Motion:    OFF
-Reduce Signal:     OFF
-Reduce Block:      OFF
-Film Mode:            AUTO

Well...with ur settings, my tv doesn't have pitch black appearance at all...so congrats for ur set. That makes me think two things, or my set is defective or yours is unique and perfect...
I'm not gonna enter in that fight that y'all having but...ktx49, I can be wrong but for me, it looked like you were just bragging about the excellence of your set when you know that there are a lot of people (including myself) that are having serious problems with the settings and the performance of the tv, and this forum is to help each other and share impressions, feelings, tests and knowledge, not to fight, brag or argue about which set is the best one, that's my opinion.
One thing that I wanted to ask anyway to know if something similar happened to anyone is...yesterday I was changing the settings back and forth and the smart dimming on and off and I could see the changes right in the same moment obviously and now...it's like I cannot see the differences unless I switch off the tv and...it's the weirdest thing ever.
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post #7211 of 9527 Old 01-17-2014, 11:05 PM
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For people who have received the update, can you explain what the process is like? Do you just have your TV on and then an update notification pops up or something? Or do you have to be doing something specific to be notified of the update?

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post #7212 of 9527 Old 01-18-2014, 12:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Infinite Xero View Post

For people who have received the update, can you explain what the process is like? Do you just have your TV on and then an update notification pops up or something? Or do you have to be doing something specific to be notified of the update?

Yeah, I want to know as well!

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post #7213 of 9527 Old 01-18-2014, 01:25 AM
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Alright boys and girls, I have been looking to upgrade my TV for awhile now. It will actually be my first sole TV purchase, I read some reviews but I have yet to read much in this particular thread. Anyway Im very set on buying this TV in the 55" flavor and im wondering If I should go ahead and buy now or maybe wait alittle longer in hopes for the price to trickle down?
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post #7214 of 9527 Old 01-18-2014, 06:47 AM
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Originally Posted by SnoPro700 View Post

Alright boys and girls, I have been looking to upgrade my TV for awhile now. It will actually be my first sole TV purchase, I read some reviews but I have yet to read much in this particular thread. Anyway Im very set on buying this TV in the 55" flavor and im wondering If I should go ahead and buy now or maybe wait alittle longer in hopes for the price to trickle down?

Unless 3D (Vizio is dropping 3D across the board this year) is important to you you may want to research the 2014 models which will have full array backlighting with true local dimming. The specs suggest significant improvements in PQ.

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post #7215 of 9527 Old 01-18-2014, 07:00 AM
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Originally Posted by venus933 View Post

Unless 3D (Vizio is dropping 3D across the board this year) is important to you you may want to research the 2014 models which will have full array backlighting with true local dimming. The specs suggest significant improvements in PQ.

apparently they are going to bring lenticular 3d panels to market in the next few years.

As for 2014, the masses weren't using it. There's still a great deficit in the amount of content available.

And apparently a sports channel, espn, dropped their 3d broadcast. I never watched this espn channel. But I hear that most people like sports.
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post #7216 of 9527 Old 01-18-2014, 07:24 AM
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Unless 3D (Vizio is dropping 3D across the board this year) is important to you you may want to research the 2014 models which will have full array backlighting with true local dimming. The specs suggest significant improvements in PQ.

3D is about the last thing im considering in my TV purchase. As far as I know there are not any prices in place for the '14 models? If  pricing will be in the same realm as the '13 M Series maybe I should just wait especially if there will be "significant improvements in PQ"

 

 

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apparently they are going to bring lenticular 3d panels to market in the next few years.

As for 2014, the masses weren't using it. There's still a great deficit in the amount of content available.

And apparently a sports channel, espn, dropped their 3d broadcast. I never watched this espn channel. But I hear that most people like sports.

 

I watch football and X Games is about as fair as my ESPN viewing goes, Ive never had the pleasure of watching 3D so I will not miss it.

 

Im getting pretty ansty specially when I have the money on hand and the GF's 32'' walmart special is less then horrendous. Im not sure if I can hold out much longer, its only going to get tougher if they drop the price $100 or more.

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post #7217 of 9527 Old 01-18-2014, 07:32 AM
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Originally Posted by SnoPro700 View Post

As far as I know there are not any prices in place for the '14 models? If  pricing will be in the same realm as the '13 M Series maybe I should just wait especially if there will be "significant improvements in PQ"

The MSRP were released at CES. They are better than the current 2013 model. For instance, the 2013 70" M series is around 2K right now. The new one is listed at 1,900.

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post #7218 of 9527 Old 01-18-2014, 07:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SnoPro700 View Post

3D is about the last thing im considering in my TV purchase. As far as I know there are not any prices in place for the '14 models? If  pricing will be in the same realm as the '13 M Series maybe I should just wait especially if there will be "significant improvements in PQ"

baniels is quick on the draw. Well anyway here are the links

http://store.vizio.com/news/vizio-announces-pricing-for-best-in-class-p-series-ultra-hd-full-array-led-smart-tv
http://store.vizio.com/news/vizio-announces-2014-e-series-and-m-series-hdtv-collections

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post #7219 of 9527 Old 01-18-2014, 07:38 AM
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Boy, Im probably better off skipping the M series all together and going with the new P series. Ideally I would like to wait and see the reviews but I think its safe to say Vizio is a safe bet for the performance for the money?

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post #7220 of 9527 Old 01-18-2014, 07:46 AM
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Boy, Im probably better off skipping the M series all together and going with the new P series. Ideally I would like to wait and see the reviews but I think its say to say Vizio is a safe bet?

I hear you. If there was no mention of a "P" series I would be excited about the "M" series but there's not that much of a price jump to the "P" series. And it's not so much the UHD but the other specs this TV has that has me drooling over it.

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post #7221 of 9527 Old 01-18-2014, 07:57 AM
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I hear you. If there was no mention of a "P" series I would be excited about the "M" series but there's not that much of a price jump to the "P" series. And it's not so much the UHD but the other specs this TV has that has me drooling over it.

Heck I drooled over a buddies '12 M series, with the M I know its a performer. I feel Vizio has it down to a science, and the P series being a new model with relatively new UHD their may be some "bugs" or it may not run as smoothly as the M. Or maybe im too skeptical.

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post #7222 of 9527 Old 01-18-2014, 08:00 AM
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Game mode appears to turn off smooth motion regardless of what that setting is locked to. That's why you want game mode if you hate smooth motion.

In 2D Game mode, the setting is enable but the only effect is to bump the refresh rate, so it's good for that, and the soap opera effect remains off.

You can always just turn the smooth motion off. I've seen no evidence that smooth motion does anything to effect the refresh rate.
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post #7223 of 9527 Old 01-18-2014, 08:05 AM
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The MSRP were released at CES. They are better than the current 2013 model. For instance, the 2013 70" M series is around 2K right now. The new one is listed at 1,900.


Where is the 120"? Vizio Reference Series 120-inch: World's Biggest Ultra HD Smart TV
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post #7224 of 9527 Old 01-18-2014, 08:09 AM
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Where is the 120"?

No word on that one yet.
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post #7225 of 9527 Old 01-18-2014, 08:17 AM
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Where is the 120"? Vizio Reference Series 120-inch: World's Biggest Ultra HD Smart TV

I suspect that one is going to be over $10k? Maybe Jasonb can shed some light on price and availability

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post #7226 of 9527 Old 01-18-2014, 08:29 AM
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The MSRP were released at CES. They are better than the current 2013 model. For instance, the 2013 70" M series is around 2K right now. The new one is listed at 1,900.


Those prices aren't correct for msrp, or its clever marketing to make the P series look better priced. The price for the 80" is waay off msrp!

The 80" is 3,999 on vizio's site and at Costco it's 3,699. Why are those prices so low is questionable when the M's cost more than this.

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post #7227 of 9527 Old 01-18-2014, 09:01 AM
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I suspect that one is going to be over $10k? Maybe Jasonb can shed some light on price and availability

I'm willing to bet we don't see that tv for "years". They do this every year. I remember 5 years ago them mentioning a 70" and it took like 3 years until one even was offered.

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post #7228 of 9527 Old 01-18-2014, 09:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Jasonn B View Post

Those prices aren't correct for msrp, or its clever marketing to make the P series look better priced. The price for the 80" is waay off msrp!

The 80" is 3,999 on vizio's site and at Costco it's 3,699. Why are those prices so low is questionable when the M's cost more than this.

I'm not sure what you're getting at, those prices are directly from Vizio's web site and listed as MSRP.

http://store.vizio.com/news/vizio-announces-pricing-for-best-in-class-p-series-ultra-hd-full-array-led-smart-tv
http://store.vizio.com/news/vizio-announces-2014-e-series-and-m-series-hdtv-collections

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post #7229 of 9527 Old 01-18-2014, 09:37 AM
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I'm saying those published prices on that link and in the image you posted for the M series aren't correct. Look at the 80" as I mentioned in my last post. It says in that sheet $3,299, it's wrong. It's $3,999 from Vizio. That's a huge difference!

http://store.vizio.com/m801da3.html

And for comparison:
http://www.costco.com/Vizio-80%22-1080p-240Hz-Razor-LED-Smart-TV-w-Theater-3D-M801D-A3.product.100055150.html

http://m.bestbuy.com/m/e/product/detail.jsp?skuId=2157041&pid=1219069106447

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post #7230 of 9527 Old 01-18-2014, 09:39 AM
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The sheet I posted is for the 2014 models. The prices you referenced are the for 2013 models.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jasonn B View Post

I'm saying those published prices on that link and in the image you posted for the M series aren't correct. Look at the 80" as I mentioned in my last post. It says in that sheet $3,299, it's wrong. It's $3,999 from Vizio. That's a huge difference!

http://store.vizio.com/m801da3.html

And for comparison:
http://www.costco.com/Vizio-80%22-1080p-240Hz-Razor-LED-Smart-TV-w-Theater-3D-M801D-A3.product.100055150.html

http://m.bestbuy.com/m/e/product/detail.jsp?skuId=2157041&pid=1219069106447
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