Official Vizio M-Series Razor Mxx1i thread - Page 318 - AVS Forum
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post #9511 of 9868 Old 07-10-2014, 05:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by renji1337 View Post

I'm looking at this M-Series monitor [and TV]:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...140710104027:s


I was wondering if this is a true 120hz panel and if this offers a 24p mode?

Also, is it possible to turn off the soap opera effect?


.

As per User Manual (Models: M492i-B2, M552i-B2, & M652i-B2):


Refresh Rate: 240 Hz Effective.


• Smooth Motion Effect - Activates Smooth Motion™
motion estimation/motion compensation, which
suppresses motion judder, or “stuttering” of the image
when the camera moves across a scene horizontally.
Select Off, Low, Medium, or High.

• Motion Blur Reduction - Reduces blur in scenes with fast
action. Some sensitive viewers may notice flicker.
Select On or Off.

• Film Mode - Optimizes the picture for watching film.
Select Auto or Off.


Ooooh. I like the keyboard remote:





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2013 Vizio M-Series M401i-A3 (40-inch) TV. The Latest Firmware I have: V1.34.44.0080. The M401i-A3 Thread. My Latest Settings (For the A3 Panel).
The Vizio M-Series Razor Thread covers all Models 2013 & 2014. I have a
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to the Composite-In of Philips 3576H; local Cable to RF-In. Using: Win7 Pro and FireFox 32.
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post #9512 of 9868 Old 07-10-2014, 07:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CleCakYngMfd View Post
The Backlight, and especially the Contrast are pretty HIGH. Depending on source/content, there will be 'overexposure' or 'over-driven' issues. This has been my experience when driving the Backlight and/or especially the Contrast too high.



.
Agreed on the Contrast. While the 235 level is supposed to be peak level for video, almost all video has peak levels that use some of the headroom between 235 and 255. On most displays, including the Vizio, the red, blue, and green sub-pixels of the display don't all peak at the same point. So if you don't set contrast low enough, a bright white in that 235 to 255 range will cause a single primary color to peak before the others which then results in a color shift. So the brightest whites will not be the same color as the not quite so bright whites. While it sounds like this will simply make the brightest whites not look right, human visual perception will actually attempt to compensate to a degree and shift the perception of the colors of everything else on screen when this occurs as well.

The highest level I could set the contrast without clipping any of the primary colors below level 255 was 65. Red began clipping at 66. Blue was difficult to determine because it does not exhibit a linear increase in brightness. The banding is bad enough that some lower number brightness levels of blue are displayed as brighter than the next several brightness levels above them. If my colorimeter was still working correctly, I would use it to verify that white at the 255 level was the same color as all whites at lower levels (D6500). When it starts to stray from that, the contrast is set too high. I do advocate setting the contrast as high as possible without clipping any of the primary colors, therefore using the maximum dynamic range of the display, and then adjust the backlight level to achieve the desired overall picture brightness.

High backlight levels shouldn't cause any color shift or undesirable picture issues other than simply having too bright of a picture. Backlight levels should not cause any color issues unless the backlight changes color with variance in backlighting level (which it shouldn't, and would cause significant color issues with smart dimming if it did). Determining if there was any color shift with changes in backlight levels would require a colorimeter or photo spectrometer.

Last edited by KC-Technerd; 07-10-2014 at 07:15 AM.
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post #9513 of 9868 Old 07-10-2014, 09:53 AM
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I'm sure this has been answered somewhere before but....................
The 11 point white balance...I see some of you post settings for each percentage. Once I enter the settings for 5%-100% am I supposed to pick a percentage or is the tv making adjustments based on every single change i made?

Last edited by Bushwicktarheels; 07-10-2014 at 12:09 PM.
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post #9514 of 9868 Old 07-10-2014, 12:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bushwicktarheels View Post
I'm sure this has been answered somewhere before but....................
The 11 point white balance...I see some of you post settings for each percentage. Once I enter the settings for 5%-100% am I supposed to pick a percentage or just leave as is on the 5%.
You can leave it on 5%, you've got all the other percentages entered so you're good to go.
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post #9515 of 9868 Old 07-10-2014, 01:10 PM
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Originally Posted by PlayNice View Post
Connect to the network and wait.
I actually do remember seeing a notification of an update a couple months back that included a long list of items. So I guess I sort of answered my own question....

I just wish there was a way to start the process when I want to.

So no tricks to do that I guess?
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post #9516 of 9868 Old 07-10-2014, 01:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Urlacher5454 View Post
You can leave it on 5%, you've got all the other percentages entered so you're good to go.
So the TV is using all 11 setting changes i did?
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post #9517 of 9868 Old 07-10-2014, 01:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bushwicktarheels View Post
So the TV is using all 11 setting changes i did?
Correct.
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post #9518 of 9868 Old 07-10-2014, 02:02 PM
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Originally Posted by waylo88 View Post
Correct.
thank you both for your responses.
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post #9519 of 9868 Old 07-10-2014, 02:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KC-Technerd View Post
Agreed on the Contrast. While the 235 level is supposed to be peak level for video, almost all video has peak levels that use some of the headroom between 235 and 255. On most displays, including the Vizio, the red, blue, and green sub-pixels of the display don't all peak at the same point. So if you don't set contrast low enough, a bright white in that 235 to 255 range will cause a single primary color to peak before the others which then results in a color shift. So the brightest whites will not be the same color as the not quite so bright whites. While it sounds like this will simply make the brightest whites not look right, human visual perception will actually attempt to compensate to a degree and shift the perception of the colors of everything else on screen when this occurs as well.

The highest level I could set the contrast without clipping any of the primary colors below level 255 was 65. Red began clipping at 66. Blue was difficult to determine because it does not exhibit a linear increase in brightness. The banding is bad enough that some lower number brightness levels of blue are displayed as brighter than the next several brightness levels above them. If my colorimeter was still working correctly, I would use it to verify that white at the 255 level was the same color as all whites at lower levels (D6500). When it starts to stray from that, the contrast is set too high. I do advocate setting the contrast as high as possible without clipping any of the primary colors, therefore using the maximum dynamic range of the display, and then adjust the backlight level to achieve the desired overall picture brightness.

High backlight levels shouldn't cause any color shift or undesirable picture issues other than simply having too bright of a picture. Backlight levels should not cause any color issues unless the backlight changes color with variance in backlighting level (which it shouldn't, and would cause significant color issues with smart dimming if it did). Determining if there was any color shift with changes in backlight levels would require a colorimeter or photo spectrometer.
Thanks for the feedback everyone, and especially KC-Technerd for dropping this knowledge. This solved a problem I was having determining the contrast level. With the v1.09 firmware I had the contrast set this high with no ill effects (that I was aware of), but since the v1.34 update the contrast test pattern on the AVSHD 709 disk had a pinkish tint. The more I lowered the contrast the more pink it got over the 235 level. Not knowing what was going on (or really what the hell I was doing) I just raised the contrast until the pink only showed at the lower end of the contrast range.

So armed with this new knowledge I lowered the contrast until the test pattern stopped being pink, which turned out to be at magic number 65, just like KC-Technerd stated. I rechecked the other levels and bumped brightness up to 53 and color down to 43. Everything else seemed fine, and I'll have to wait until tonight to really check out the brightness level, but I could see the difference right away. Definitely looks more natural.

Thanks again.
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post #9520 of 9868 Old 07-10-2014, 03:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CleCakYngMfd View Post
The Backlight, and especially the Contrast are pretty HIGH. Depending on source/content, there will be 'overexposure' or 'over-driven' issues. This has been my experience when driving the Backlight and/or especially the Contrast too high.



.
That makes sense. I'll try lowering them a bit. Looks like he has this set for a particularly bright environment.
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post #9521 of 9868 Old 07-10-2014, 04:07 PM
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Just did a run-through of the Disney WOW disc, first time since getting 1.34. The settings definitely changed quite a bit. Here is what I am now using on my 50". I calibrated this in a room with medium light. Not dark, but not bright either.

New 1.34 Settings

Backlight - 50
Brightness - 64
Contrast - 71
Color - 42
Tint - -1
Sharpness - 0
Color Temp - Normal
Advanced Settings - All off

I also went into the Professional Picture menu and pulled down the Red Offset to -4 and Red Gain to -2 as the "Normal" picture setting was just a touch too red for my liking, while both "Computer" and "Cool" were much too blue.

Previous 1.09 Settings

Backlight - 50
Brightness - 57
Contrast - 76
Color - 46
Tint - -1
Sharpness - 0
Color Temp - Normal
Advanced Settings - All off

Pretty obvious fluctuations in the Brightness, Contrast, and to an extent, Color. Overall, I think these look pretty good, but I still think my PQ was better with 1.09. These will do for me though.

Again, this is for my 50" M, so I'd imagine these would also be compatible with 55" and 65" models as well.
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post #9522 of 9868 Old 07-11-2014, 12:03 AM
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is there any way to adjust the refresh rate?

sorry for noob question.

thanks
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post #9523 of 9868 Old 07-11-2014, 04:08 AM
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i am now having lip sync issues on my 80M. i have a vizio sound bar hooked to the tv. The sound bar is always on and i guess goes to sleep and the tv gets turned off after viewing. When i turn the tv on there is a lot of lip sync issue with the video vs the sound coming from the sound bar. I have a custom pic setting.

Any recommendations, seriously considering whether to keep this tv or not. Doesn't happen to my LG in the bedroom.
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post #9524 of 9868 Old 07-11-2014, 07:14 AM
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An update to the settings I posted yesterday. I watched a few episodes of The Sopranos, some of the Yankees/Indians game, and some Summer League basketball and I'm really starting to enjoy them even more. I said that I thought my PQ on 1.09 was better, but I'm not so sure anymore. These look really good and the blacks are no longer crushed on my set.
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post #9525 of 9868 Old 07-11-2014, 01:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sid369 View Post
i am now having lip sync issues on my 80M. i have a vizio sound bar hooked to the tv. The sound bar is always on and i guess goes to sleep and the tv gets turned off after viewing. When i turn the tv on there is a lot of lip sync issue with the video vs the sound coming from the sound bar. I have a custom pic setting.

Any recommendations, seriously considering whether to keep this tv or not. Doesn't happen to my LG in the bedroom.
how is the sound bar hooked up? directly to tv? optical?

regardless, this happened to me once....all i did was turn off everything, disconnect all the wires and unplug everything...waited a few minutes before reconnecting everything and plugging them back in and the problem went away.

let me know if this helps....PS, there is a lip-sync setting in the audio settings of the TV...i'm also using a vizio soundbar with my M60 although I've never had to adjust the lip sync settings.

good luck, I would not let such a minor issue turn you away from an amazing TV. if this problem just appeared it should be easily fixable.
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post #9526 of 9868 Old 07-11-2014, 02:04 PM
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Originally Posted by waylo88 View Post
An update to the settings I posted yesterday. I watched a few episodes of The Sopranos, some of the Yankees/Indians game, and some Summer League basketball and I'm really starting to enjoy them even more. I said that I thought my PQ on 1.09 was better, but I'm not so sure anymore. These look really good and the blacks are no longer crushed on my set.
So in The Color Tuner everything is 0 except for the 2 gains?
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post #9527 of 9868 Old 07-11-2014, 03:04 PM
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So in The Color Tuner everything is 0 except for the 2 gains?
I've got the Red Offset at -4 and Red Gain at -2. Everything else is 0.
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post #9528 of 9868 Old 07-11-2014, 10:19 PM
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Originally Posted by renji1337 View Post
I'm looking at this m series monitor. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...140710104027:s

I was wondering if this is a true 120hz panel and if this offers a 24p mode, also is it possible to turn off the soap opera affect
Not sure about the 2014 models, but the 2013 M651d overclocks (PC's only) to 120hz at 1760x990 and any resolution below that (1600x900, 1280x720, etc); and can OC to 108hz, 109hz if the stars align just right, at 1920x1080. The set also downsamples up to 3840x2160 at 37hz (44hz at 1080p timings) and beyond (6000x3375 at 22hz). 3600x2025 at 42hz (48hz at 1080p timings). 3200x1800 at 52hz (76hz at 1080p timings). 2560x1440 at 81hz (103hz at 1080p timings). And so on.

Also, just to clarify to everyone including whoever did the M651d Cnet review last year, the M651d is a true 240hz panel because even when refreshing at an actual 120hz INPUT refresh rate, there is still Frame Interpolation if it is set to On when not in Game mode. The maximum input refresh rate is 120hz, and the maximum panel refresh rate is 240hz as it can & does refresh at a TRUE 240hz when using 120hz input with Smooth Motion set to On. Confusing, I know.

The M651d also does as low as 19hz PC input, 23.976 is available as a true refresh rate (it also does an excellent 3:2 at 59hz).

The M651d also has a Game mode that does indeed allow you to disable all post-processing and internal processing, decreasing input lag and also eliminating the "soap opera effect", although IMO setting Smooth Motion to Low decreases judder & eye fatigue without making video appear "soap opera-like", but to each their own.

Not sure if this info helps you or not, but the M651d is the only Vizio model we've played with. I would imagine a 240hz 3D panel from the same company would be comparable to most of the above features, but if not I wouldn't be highly surprised.

ALSO, almost forgot to mention, the M651d is also Chroma 4:4:4 capable. Pretty relevant if you're planning to use a TV as a monitor.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mreasier View Post
I have a M651d-A2R and got the update about a week ago. I am very pleased, especially with the now usable remote. There is a new setting on the Advanced menu that I have not seen discussed here. It is titled "Active LED Zones" and the description says "Dynamically improves the contrast by locally adjusting backlight zones. The adjustment is controlled by the content of the screen". It seems to improve the picture in a dark room but not in a bright room. Any other experiences?
I have it set to Off after viewing/testing on my M651d. I use the opening scenes from Alien for black level and color "testing" and, from what I noticed, when a camera pans slowly from light-to-dark or dark-to-light images, the Active LED Zones setting seems to lag behind and cause odd backlighting effects. Basically it brightens or dims the backlight a half second too late. May not be noticeable to all, so YMMV, but I'm leaving it set to Off.


Quote:
Originally Posted by lotohnz View Post
cnet's 11-point white balance (for 2014 M-series) (they might not correlate exactly, but they settings definitely seem to be an improvement over the default settings. After living with them awhile I tried going back to the default settings, but it was just way too hard to look at. With the cnet settings I'm getting finer shadow detail and much less eye fatigue. So I'll keep using them until someone comes up with 11-point White Balance settings for the 2013 models):

[Gain amounts for Red, Green and Blue]

5%: 10, -1, 1

10%: 16, 8, 39

20%: 3, 1, 24

30%: -8, -6, -7

40%: -24, -23, -6

50%: -48, -39, -31

60%: -50, -50, -36

70%: -50, -50, -34

80%: -50, -50, -39

90%: -42, -45, -50

100%: 0, -10, 0

There you go. Hope that helps...
100% agree with your post. These are an improvement. Thanks for posting.
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Last edited by trey31; 07-11-2014 at 10:36 PM.
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post #9529 of 9868 Old 07-12-2014, 04:48 AM
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Originally Posted by ktx49 View Post
how is the sound bar hooked up? directly to tv? optical?

regardless, this happened to me once....all i did was turn off everything, disconnect all the wires and unplug everything...waited a few minutes before reconnecting everything and plugging them back in and the problem went away.

let me know if this helps....PS, there is a lip-sync setting in the audio settings of the TV...i'm also using a vizio soundbar with my M60 although I've never had to adjust the lip sync settings.

good luck, I would not let such a minor issue turn you away from an amazing TV. if this problem just appeared it should be easily fixable.
Its connected directly to the tv from the sound bar via optical. I changed the pic setting to game and that has worked so far. I haven't tried disconnecting everything as you mentioned yet, will give that a try too.

I did see the lip sync setting but didn't help much.

Any recommendation for pic setting that will give a little pop? also do you guys use cool, computer or normal color temperature?
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post #9530 of 9868 Old 07-12-2014, 05:42 AM
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Anyone know if I should set the Xbox One to output in 24, 30, or 36 bit color?
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post #9531 of 9868 Old 07-12-2014, 08:11 AM
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Anyone know if I should set the Xbox One to output in 24, 30, or 36 bit color?
movies, TV, film, streaming video, and video games are 24-bit, but setting it to 36-bit shouldn't cause any detrimental effects.
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post #9532 of 9868 Old 07-12-2014, 09:57 AM
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These questions are for Ursa99. I have the 70" 2013 M Series and i used your settings. I love the picture. The blues were way to bright which i believe the -50 setting corrected. The skin tones are very natural all channels.

My questions.

1. I have smart dimming on will this affect your settings?

2. What changes do you recommend for 3D, higher backlight due to glasses?

3. I noticed the offset and gain settings i entered in the color tuner changed on all custom presets are these setting universal.
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post #9533 of 9868 Old 07-12-2014, 02:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Padinn View Post
Anyone know if I should set the Xbox One to output in 24, 30, or 36 bit color?
These sets are have 30 bit color so set it to either 30 or 36 bit. I say 30 or 36 cause of going through an AVR or Video Processor your equipment may only accept 36 bit as deep color and disregard 30 bit.
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post #9534 of 9868 Old 07-12-2014, 03:45 PM
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I apologize if this was answered earlier (I couldn't find an answer) but since the firmware update, every time I turn off the TV (M551d-A2), it defaults back to the Standard picture instead of the Custom picture I created through the help of others on this site. Is there a way to make the Custom picture settings my default so I don't have to manually switch over every time I turn on the TV? Thanks.
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post #9535 of 9868 Old 07-12-2014, 04:33 PM
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Excellent post trey31, very informative.

Well, after reading KC-Technerd's post and lowering the contrast, I did a factory reset (to try to clear up remote pairing and wi-fi trouble I've been having since the update) and went back to the AVSHD 709 disc and re-entered and tightened up my settings, specifically the color and cyan and magenta hues. I believe I've finally reached visual nirvana, at least for this week...

M551d-A2, v1.34.28.1034_125

Auto Brightness: Off, (or High, Backlight 100 for streaming photos)

Backlight: custom Calibrated/custom Game: 85, custom Dark Calibrated: 69, custom photo: 67 (or 100, Auto Brightness High), custom 3D: 95

Brightness: 52, custom 3D: 53

Contrast: 65

Color: 43

Tint: 0

Sharpness: 0

Advanced Picture:

Color Temperature: Normal

Black Detail: Off

Smart Dimming: On

Smooth Motion Effect: custom Cal., Dark Cal: Low, custom Game, custom sports, custom 3D: High

Reduce Signal Noise: Off

Reduce Block Noise: Off

Film Mode: Auto

Professional Picture:

Color Tuner:

Ursa's latest Color Tuner Offset and Gain settings:

Red Offset: 1

Green Offset: 2

Blue Offset: 1

Red Gain: 8

Green Gain: 6

Blue Gain: 10

My Tint adjustment:

Cyan Hue: -5

Magenta Hue: -5

Red/Green/Blue: Hue/Saturation/Brightness: 0

cnet's 11-point white balance (for 2014 M-series):

[Gain amounts for Red, Green and Blue]

5%: 10, -1, 1

10%: 16, 8, 39

20%: 3, 1, 24

30%: -8, -6, -7

40%: -24, -23, -6

50%: -48, -39, -31

60%: -50, -50, -36

70%: -50, -50, -34

80%: -50, -50, -39

90%: -42, -45, -50

100%: 0, -10, 0

observations about the v1.34 firmware: Auto Brightness (High, Backlight 100) actually seems to be useful to me now. It's still a bit too dim for me during the day, but I've used it for streaming photos and late night viewing, and it's pretty close to where I would set my backlight manually in those situations.

Game Mode now has "Film Mode" greyed out. I don't think this was the case with the previous firmware. This may mean there's no 3:2 pulldown in Game Mode, which used to be my go-to movie mode to avoid SOE. However, like trey31 noted, there's barely any SOE now with Smooth Motion on "Low", and none at all with Smooth Motion turned Off in a custom calibrated mode (with previous firmware, in any mode but Game there was still a little SOE even when Smooth Motion was turned off).

Going into 3D no longer automatically changes to your saved 3D settings and back again when you're done. You now have to remember to go to and return from your custom 3D brightness setting (pretty much all you can control in 3D now).

Overall the latest firmware seems more stable (when youtube crashes it no longer takes the whole TV with it). I'm pretty happy with it so far. Now if only Comcast would get it's act together in my area...
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post #9536 of 9868 Old 07-12-2014, 04:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Razman View Post
These questions are for Ursa99. I have the 70" 2013 M Series and i used your settings. I love the picture. The blues were way to bright which i believe the -50 setting corrected. The skin tones are very natural all channels.

My questions.

1. I have smart dimming on will this affect your settings?

2. What changes do you recommend for 3D, higher backlight due to glasses?

3. I noticed the offset and gain settings i entered in the color tuner changed on all custom presets are these setting universal.
1. Smart dimming should only impact the way the backlight behaves (adjusting different areas of the screen dynamically rather than keeping the entire image at the same brightness), so you may in theory need to adjust the backlight setting if you feel the image is no longer bright enough with smart dimming on, but otherwise it shouldn't impact the image at all.

2. 3D images tend to be darker due to the polarizing filter in the glasses, so you will need to increase the backlight if you want the image to be as bright as it normally would be without 3D. In the earlier firmwares, when the tv detected a 3d signal the system automatically switched to a 3d preset with higher backlighting, increased smooth motion effect, and some other adjustments. This no longer seems to be the case, so I just have a separate preset labelled 3d that I use when putting on a 3d bluray.

3. I believe they are with the exception of any presets based on the game mode. I noticed all of my "normal" presets share the same professional pictures adjustments, but the preset I have for gaming had to be adjusted on its own. I think this has to do with the fact that all of the regular presets(calibrated, vivid, pc, etc) use the same picture processing methods/features but game mode has its own image processing (or lack thereof for latency purposes).

edit: I just went back and made some adjustments based on lotohnz's latest settings and there doesn't seem to be any rhyme or reason behind the way the color tuner and white balance adjustments are saved. On some presets they were changed together, on others they stayed the same as I had them before. I think it might just be a bug in the firmware, as I know older firmware versions with the advanced adjustments had issues with the settings not saving properly.

Last edited by SilentPower; 07-12-2014 at 05:00 PM.
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post #9537 of 9868 Old 07-12-2014, 04:55 PM
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Looking for some help, M40 was on and working fine then all of a sudden the colors went crazy. Hard to explain, inverted/reversed kind of deal.
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post #9538 of 9868 Old 07-12-2014, 05:13 PM
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I apologize if this was answered earlier (I couldn't find an answer) but since the firmware update, every time I turn off the TV (M551d-A2), it defaults back to the Standard picture instead of the Custom picture I created through the help of others on this site. Is there a way to make the Custom picture settings my default so I don't have to manually switch over every time I turn on the TV? Thanks.
It should work automatically. I haven't had any issues with it keeping the picture mode I left it on. Trying to do a complete reset on your TV. I had a few issues after the firmware upgrade with the TV having screwy color issues for a few seconds after powering on. I did a system reset and re-entered everything and haven't had a problem since. With these TVs becoming more advanced, there is greater potential for issues after software updates just like with a regular computer, so sometimes it's good to just wipe everything and start from scratch.

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Originally Posted by TheKid23 View Post
Looking for some help, M40 was on and working fine then all of a sudden the colors went crazy. Hard to explain, inverted/reversed kind of deal.
See above. The firmware upgrades on these TVs seem to introduce occasional bugs. Sometimes it's inherent in the firmware, but other times it can be fixed by wiping the TV's memory.
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post #9539 of 9868 Old 07-12-2014, 05:19 PM
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See above. The firmware upgrades on these TVs seem to introduce occasional bugs. Sometimes it's inherent in the firmware, but other times it can be fixed by wiping the TV's memory.
I've reset to factory settings twice now, still having the same issue. Start up screen is white now?! I could have sworn it was black, something you never take notice of until something goes wrong. The display is way off, like setting an iPhone to reverse colors is the best description I can give.
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post #9540 of 9868 Old 07-12-2014, 07:06 PM
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Originally Posted by nbcurrie View Post
I apologize if this was answered earlier (I couldn't find an answer) but since the firmware update, every time I turn off the TV (M551d-A2), it defaults back to the Standard picture instead of the Custom picture I created through the help of others on this site. Is there a way to make the Custom picture settings my default so I don't have to manually switch over every time I turn on the TV? Thanks.
Had this same exact problem after receiving the update. I fixed it by doing a factory reset.
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