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post #1 of 9 Old 01-16-2013, 11:58 AM - Thread Starter
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I just got a 10x loupe and tried to see what panel it was doing a loupe test. The most similar panel i could find was this Samsung 55D8000:

The characteristics that are similar and differ were:
The cubed sub pixel was on the bottom, which is a vertical inversion from the image.
The top and bottom edges seemed jagged, the 55D8000 image seems smooth.
They both have a discernable larger gap between between the cubed sub pixel and the other sub pixels.
There were no large gaps between any of the sub pixels, just straight lines. (AU MVA-3 has a box between the larger 4 upper sub pixels)
The pixel structure was straight, the width of the cubed sub pixel was same as the other sub pixels. (The cube sub pixel is slightly smaller in samsung S-PVA images)

Anyone have any idea what panel this is?
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post #2 of 9 Old 01-16-2013, 01:35 PM
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My guess is that they are MVA panels. I think Chei Mei is now making an MVA panel, so if I was to guess this would be a Chei Mei(Red China) MVA panel. Au Optronics (Taiwan) was the original creator of the MVA LCD pixel style.

Samsung S-PVA 8th generation would be more expensive. The Samsung panels have a more elongated rectangular sub-subpixel and pronounced V striations, as compared to the MVA panels. They are both vertical array and function very similarly, darkening down the larger sub-blocks first and then the smaller block, as the image gets darker. They can be oriented either way with the larger rectangular 4 sub subpixels on top or bottom of the cube 4 segment.

The Insignias I spied at Best Buy I determined to be MVA, but I could be wrong. There could be some panel lottery going on to, so their might be more than one panel type being used in different production runs and or panel sizes in the Insignia lineup.

The MVA 3rd Gen is a good panel with great blacks, and similar charcteristics to the S-PVA. So you are good to go either way.

Here are a bunch of pics of panel styles, which is somehwat out of date. but still useful.


http://www.avforums.com/forums/lcd-led-lcd-tvs/1113353-lcd-matrices-differences-what-models-placed.html

Vizio VP322 Plasma / Vizio GV42LF LCD / Denon 2200 Silicon Image DVD / Panasonic S97 Faroudja Genesis DVD / Oppo 970HD Mediatek DVD / Oppo 983H Anchor Bay DVD / Panasonic LX-600 Laserdisc / Aiwa MX100 Multi-region VCR / JVC S7600 S-VHS / PS2 / Sega Genesis / Nintendo SNES / Roku 2 XS & HD-XR / Realistic STA-90 Reciever / Realistic Minimus 7 / Antennacraft G1483 Hoverman / Belden 7915A RG6 / Channel Master 7777 Titan 2 UHF/VHF / Panasonic AX-200u / Optoma Graywolf 92" / Draper Luma 92"
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post #3 of 9 Old 01-16-2013, 07:36 PM - Thread Starter
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It's only 60hz but I picked it up for 250$, so I'm pretty happy. Where did you get your loupe? The 30x loupe that I bought from Amazon is really 10x, so it's difficult to see the details of the pixel structure.
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post #4 of 9 Old 01-16-2013, 08:43 PM
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I have an ultra cheapie. However Belomo loupes are the way to go. Made in Eastern Europe (or Russia) I believe. Great quality at good prices (compared to Zeiss, Leica, Schneider, Rodenstock, Nikon, etc), but you dont need a fancy loupe to spy the subpixel structures. I recommend the 12x and 15x Belomo loupes. Bausch & Lomb Hastings 14x loupes are good too. Something higher than 10x and lower than 20x gives you good compromise in magnification and field of view, and edge over 10x without the small glass and rapidly shrinking field of view of 20x and over. The Belomo's are better constructed with better glass than current B&L Hastings loupes, and cheaper to boot.

Vizio VP322 Plasma / Vizio GV42LF LCD / Denon 2200 Silicon Image DVD / Panasonic S97 Faroudja Genesis DVD / Oppo 970HD Mediatek DVD / Oppo 983H Anchor Bay DVD / Panasonic LX-600 Laserdisc / Aiwa MX100 Multi-region VCR / JVC S7600 S-VHS / PS2 / Sega Genesis / Nintendo SNES / Roku 2 XS & HD-XR / Realistic STA-90 Reciever / Realistic Minimus 7 / Antennacraft G1483 Hoverman / Belden 7915A RG6 / Channel Master 7777 Titan 2 UHF/VHF / Panasonic AX-200u / Optoma Graywolf 92" / Draper Luma 92"
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post #5 of 9 Old 01-16-2013, 09:00 PM
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Ive always liked Insignia as a good value budget brand. They took a significant step up in PQ by going to these Vertical Array panels in most of their lineup of LCDs this past year, 2012....especially with regards to black level which is critical to Image Quality. Great bargain.

Vizio VP322 Plasma / Vizio GV42LF LCD / Denon 2200 Silicon Image DVD / Panasonic S97 Faroudja Genesis DVD / Oppo 970HD Mediatek DVD / Oppo 983H Anchor Bay DVD / Panasonic LX-600 Laserdisc / Aiwa MX100 Multi-region VCR / JVC S7600 S-VHS / PS2 / Sega Genesis / Nintendo SNES / Roku 2 XS & HD-XR / Realistic STA-90 Reciever / Realistic Minimus 7 / Antennacraft G1483 Hoverman / Belden 7915A RG6 / Channel Master 7777 Titan 2 UHF/VHF / Panasonic AX-200u / Optoma Graywolf 92" / Draper Luma 92"
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post #6 of 9 Old 01-17-2013, 07:26 AM - Thread Starter
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I was able to attach my loupe to an iPhone 4 and get more detailed photo than i was able to achieve purely by eye. It does seem to be an AU Optronics MVA3. There seem to be a 45 degree square between the cube subpixel and larger subpixel as well as a smaller 45 degree square between the larger subpixels and the cubed subpixel.

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post #7 of 9 Old 01-17-2013, 07:39 AM - Thread Starter
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I think i'm going to keep this Insignia, since i won't be able to find a comparable panel at that price. What panels do the Vizios have?
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post #8 of 9 Old 01-18-2013, 01:39 PM - Thread Starter
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Here's another picture from my iPhone. The lines look more straight, especially the red pixel. This is how i originally saw it with my eye, using the loupe. Any opinions out there?

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post #9 of 9 Old 01-18-2013, 06:07 PM - Thread Starter
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My initial eyeball impression, using the loupe, was that the lines were thin and it may have been a PSA panel. The first picture i took made me think it was a MVA, since i saw large gaps between the sub pixels. The second picture makes me think, again, that it's a PSA. According to http://www.digitalversus.com/tv-television/screen-technology-sub-pixels-up-close-a1547.html PSA is made by Samsung and AU and is characterized by thin lines between the sub pixels. This seems clear in the second picture, not so clear in the first. Does anyone know anything about PSA?

Anyway, escapevelocity, i'm also using cheap 5$(free 2 day shipping) loupes from amazon. I know was looking at the Belomo and Bausch loupes, but can't seem to justify the price. Do they offer much better quality?
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