Official Sony KDL-55W900A Owners Thread - Page 178 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #5311 of 5419 Old 04-19-2015, 03:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Jorgens View Post
for the average piece of high street electronics made in 3e world countries that is pretty correct

but this is where manufacturing quality and product design (components) comes in. and it should be the case that for the more reputable brands, and particularly their higher end models, that we have a 10+ years life expectancy for this type of product (unless you are extremely unlucky and get a monday lemon). lcd is also a mature and well understood technology, and if no manufacturing errors occur, should have a fairly predictable lifespan.

my estimate, and we can only talk personal opinions or refer to consumer reports here, would be that in 10 yrs time 90% of the higher end tv models from brands like sony/samsung/LG/panasonic will still be functioning perfectly fine. and most of the faulty ones will have been identified in the first few months (or even weeks) of use. and that is what the average consumer has to be able to expect for a good TV, fridge or washing machine. most people who will purchase new products within that 10 yr time span would do so out of choice because they want new features or a newer product of a different design.

in contrast, most of the big electronic stores that sell "no brand" cheap chinese crap (pardon my french) at discount prices will have a high failure rate. these devices are made from parts provided by the lowest bidders, are designed to provide basic features with low spec technology, use cheap manufacturing processes, and have poor quality control. Their sales model is also based on profits to be made from by high volume sales at low discounted prices , and high failure rates are simply part of this

however in our case, other then in the future maybe wanting a larger display or a newer/better technology (like oled in 5 yrs or so when the technology has matured) most of us should be pretty safe expecting +10 yrs imho. btw, most current oled tv's do have a limited lfespan, and early reports indicate one of the 3 primary color oled's used in many of those screens only lasts for 2 or 3 yrs (after which ii starts to fade prematurely, and this obviously would distort the quality of the image). for early adopters who have money to burn this might not matter, in a couple of yrs they would move onto the next toy

Well said Jorgens. Couldnt have said better.
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post #5312 of 5419 Old 04-22-2015, 11:55 AM
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it looks like Samsung might have its version of the W9.

http://www.samsung.com/us/video/tvs/UN55JS8500FXZA

Its a 4K with QD. I haven't seen it in person yet but Im very curious how it stacks
up to our beloved W9.
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post #5313 of 5419 Old 04-23-2015, 08:07 AM
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Originally Posted by helvetica bold View Post
it looks like Samsung might have its version of the W9.

http://www.samsung.com/us/video/tvs/UN55JS8500FXZA

Its a 4K with QD. I haven't seen it in person yet but Im very curious how it stacks
up to our beloved W9.

helvetica bold, I am also interested to see how it stacks up against our W900A's as well. On paper it looks to be a beautiful set from Samsung but until I see it in person thats all I will say. I have said it once and I will say it again and that is I think it was a BIG mistake for Sony to drop the QD technology.
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post #5314 of 5419 Old 04-25-2015, 03:03 PM
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^^ I think it's all about timing. There was no need for Sony to utilize QD to sell 4K TVs over the last couple of years. And certainly not in their interest to have a lower definition TV in their line up that is able to compete with their 4K TVs with respect to picture quality. At least for 99% of the content used today.

I think QD will make a return in the next year or two once their Marketing team decides it is needed. It's a pity that they let Samsung (apparently) beat them to the punch. Now it will look as if they are simply following the market rather than leading it.

Another explanation behind the lack of development in this area could be that Sony is about to pull the plug on their TV division. So rather than trying to keep pace or ahead of Samsung and the others, Sony are simply trying to recover the cost of developing their current models, and once they've been left behind, they will stop selling TVs.

Most TV manufacturers (and retailers) were expecting a much larger wave of 4K uptake. If Sony's TV division are failing to make their forecast revenue for 4K, they could be on the chopping block. It's been discussed before and I don't think the decision would surprise anyone.

Personally, I'll be gutted if there isn't a competitive Sony TV on the market in 5 to 7 years time when I'm ready to upgrade again.
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post #5315 of 5419 Old 04-26-2015, 11:03 AM
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there is a good list of some recent movies with high quality video material ( "Reference Status - The 20 Best Blu-rays for Picture and Sound ") at https://www.avforums.com/article/20-...nd-sound.10416

from that lists suggestions i just watched the 50th anniversary special edition and digitally remastered version of "Lawrence of Arabia" , and the quality of the video image was absolutely spectacular on this excellent sony tv (keeping in mind it is a 50 year old movie recorded on analogue film that was remastered to 4K, and not a modern 4k digitally filmed movie ).

the scenery detail and video quality was very good in the new 1080p version i just watched, and it is a completely new experience to see it like this. highly recommended for anybody who liked the movie. with this directors cut they added a lot of the material that had been removed for the original cinema release, but the added footage (particularly of some of the desert scenes) really adds depth of story and gives a more powerful visual impression
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The work to create a newly restored Lawrence of Arabia for 2012 came about because we wanted to present the film in the best way possible for its anniversary. The plan was to fix the damage to the film that couldn’t be fixed in 1988 simply because the technology to do so did not exist at the time. The digital tools available today allow us to repair film damage in a precise manner so as to render the film as close to its original look as possible. We began the work with extensive preparation and testing in 2010. The 65mm original picture negative was scanned at 8k (the equivalent resolution of the 65mm negative), generating a file size of 8192 x 3584 pixels. The film was scanned on two large format 65mm Imagica XE scanners at FotoKem laboratory in Burbank. The files were then reduced to a 4K file size (four times the resolution of High Definition and the highest standard digital workflow) and moved to digital image restoration facility Colorworks at Sony Pictures Studios, where all the restoration work came together.
from the review at http://www.renewtheaters.org/blog/20.../#.VT0fg5ONhUM

highly recommended for anybody who liked this historical movie
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post #5316 of 5419 Old 04-26-2015, 03:03 PM
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Originally Posted by steve1971 View Post
helvetica bold, I am also interested to see how it stacks up against our W900A's as well. On paper it looks to be a beautiful set from Samsung but until I see it in person thats all I will say. I have said it once and I will say it again and that is I think it was a BIG mistake for Sony to drop the QD technology.
I have seen the JS8500 in person and it does not hold a candle to the w900a in terms of depth. All the 2015 Samsung 4K televisions have a contrast ratio around 1900-2000:1 and it really shows. Very flat picture if your used to higher contrast. Also, no one seems to point out the fact that while they do how low input lag, they can only do 4:4:4 in PC mode, which has over 40ms of input lag. Another thing is the w900a has a native 240hz panel, while all current 4K panels are only 120hz panels.
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post #5317 of 5419 Old 04-27-2015, 01:04 PM
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^^ I think it's all about timing. There was no need for Sony to utilize QD to sell 4K TVs over the last couple of years. And certainly not in their interest to have a lower definition TV in their line up that is able to compete with their 4K TVs with respect to picture quality. At least for 99% of the content used today.

I think QD will make a return in the next year or two once their Marketing team decides it is needed. It's a pity that they let Samsung (apparently) beat them to the punch. Now it will look as if they are simply following the market rather than leading it.

Another explanation behind the lack of development in this area could be that Sony is about to pull the plug on their TV division. So rather than trying to keep pace or ahead of Samsung and the others, Sony are simply trying to recover the cost of developing their current models, and once they've been left behind, they will stop selling TVs.

Most TV manufacturers (and retailers) were expecting a much larger wave of 4K uptake. If Sony's TV division are failing to make their forecast revenue for 4K, they could be on the chopping block. It's been discussed before and I don't think the decision would surprise anyone.

Personally, I'll be gutted if there isn't a competitive Sony TV on the market in 5 to 7 years time when I'm ready to upgrade again.
So basically they quit the QD tech because it looked just as good on the W900A as it did on their X900A 4K tv and they didnt want the consumer to see or know that because in a nutshell that would effect tv sales. That being said I would hate to see Sony leave the tv buisness behind as well because Sony really is the only brand I trust when it comes to tv's.

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Originally Posted by *UFO* View Post
I have seen the JS8500 in person and it does not hold a candle to the w900a in terms of depth. All the 2015 Samsung 4K televisions have a contrast ratio around 1900-2000:1 and it really shows. Very flat picture if your used to higher contrast. Also, no one seems to point out the fact that while they do how low input lag, they can only do 4:4:4 in PC mode, which has over 40ms of input lag. Another thing is the w900a has a native 240hz panel, while all current 4K panels are only 120hz panels.

Thanks for the update UFO. Nice to know that the 4K Sammy still dont beat my W900A! One thing I find funny about the 4K tv's is they still only use 120hz refresh rate panels when you think they would use higher refresh rate panels for 4K. But oh I forgot, its all about the pixels and nothing else.
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post #5318 of 5419 Old 04-27-2015, 01:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jorgens View Post
there is a good list of some recent movies with high quality video material ( "Reference Status - The 20 Best Blu-rays for Picture and Sound ") at https://www.avforums.com/article/20-...nd-sound.10416

from that lists suggestions i just watched the 50th anniversary special edition and digitally remastered version of "Lawrence of Arabia" , and the quality of the video image was absolutely spectacular on this excellent sony tv (keeping in mind it is a 50 year old movie recorded on analogue film that was remastered to 4K, and not a modern 4k digitally filmed movie ).

the scenery detail and video quality was very good in the new 1080p version i just watched, and it is a completely new experience to see it like this. highly recommended for anybody who liked the movie. with this directors cut they added a lot of the material that had been removed for the original cinema release, but the added footage (particularly of some of the desert scenes) really adds depth of story and gives a more powerful visual impression
from the review at http://www.renewtheaters.org/blog/20.../#.VT0fg5ONhUM

highly recommended for anybody who liked this historical movie

I watched it over the weekend with my wife Jorgens on our W900A and the image quality was nothing short of jaw dropping.
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post #5319 of 5419 Old 04-27-2015, 03:58 PM
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I have seen the JS8500 in person .......... they can only do 4:4:4 in PC mode
minor typo probably. from what i have read one of the limitations of most ( ?all) current 4k lcd tv's is their inability to do RGB 4.4.4 chroma on their hdmi input ports (for ex when in game mode). in contrast, many of the good current model 1080 HD lcd tv's (like our w900) can do chroma 4.4.4 RGB when the hdmi port is set to game mode. the importance of being able to do this 444 chroma mainly relates to using the tv as a pc monitor or with a HTPC (in order to bypass the tv inbuilt processing modes).

for the average consumer this might not matter because we normally use a YCbCr 4.2.0 video signal from stand alone dvd/blu-ray players. also since you still cant fit a full length 4k movie on a standard double layer blu-ray disc (and for this reason there are no 4K blu-ray players yet), early adopters of this 4k standard will be dependent on over the air or cable content for at least another year or two i suspect.

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Another thing is the w900a has a native 240hz panel, while all current 4K panels are only 120hz panels.
i still find the high claims of refresh rates (90, 100, 120, 240, etc) rather confusing for flatscreen televisions. one reason for this is the often deliberately misleading claims from various manufacturers. from what i can make out lcd tv's are still all basically only 60 hz ( which is linked to the old CRT standard of the 110 volt electrical system, or even 50 hz in europe with 220 volt). Any video frames being displayed when the lcd panel refresh above 60 hz is done by either interpolation ( adding newly created frames that dont exist in the original source material) and/or by some backlight trickery (like adding a black frame in between existing video frames).

as a consumer tech reviewer in a pc magazine recently put it:
Quote:
Bottom line: Refresh rate is how often the TV shows a new image. Anything above 60Hz is entirely the invention of the TV itself. All modern video is either 24 frames per second (movies and most TV shows), 60 fields per second (1080i video), or 60 frames per second (720p video). Higher refresh rates are simply used to increase apparent motion resolution (using "newly created" video frames which were not present in the original source material).
note: The 600Hz claims with plasmas is largely marketing hype, but is technically correct and is different from how lcd works
the purpose of all this added processing is to reduce the visibly low video frame rate (perceived as a judder or blurring) in the PAL (25 frames/sec) or NTSC (30 frames/sec) video signal, or the flickering caused by the used display if that has refresh rates below +/- 100 hz. As a result with lcd display technology the individual pixels might need to turn on/off at 120 or 240 times per sec (eg "Hz") and the original number of video frames in the source material have been padded with added frames of "newly created" video (which still cant create a perfectly smooth video image for moving content).

on faster moving video, for ex sports or a panning video shot across a landscape, that is where the better interpolation methods will matter the most to remove judder/blurring. For 1080 HD lcd' tv's the various existing methods from the better tv makers are now pretty good at adding these new frames ( and the sony motionflow is particularly good, but you need to select the appropriate setting). however for 4K lcd tv's most manufacturing companies in 2015 still have technological limitations with panel refresh rates higher then 120 hz (as UFO indicated in his post).

similar limitations also still exist for pc lcd monitors. the manufacturers that recently make claims of 100 or 120 hz are using TN panels which are only 6 bit color (often used in cheap "gaming monitors" that make claims of super low latencies). the better quality 8 bit color panels (either MVA/PVA or IPS) still cant run higher then 60 or 70 hrz.

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post #5320 of 5419 Old 04-28-2015, 06:31 PM
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So was trying to look up my hours on the TV recently:

TV was off. I tried: Display + 5 + Volume down + Power
and also Display + Volume Down + Power with no luck. No menu screen popped up. The TV just turns on.

I'm not sure what I'm doing wrong.
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post #5321 of 5419 Old 04-29-2015, 08:31 AM
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My W900A got a very good compliment last night from a friend of mine. He thought it was an OLED set and asked when did Sony start making OLED tv's? He was shocked as hell when I told him that it wasnt an OLED set but an LED set!!! Thats one of the biggest and best compliment my W900A set has yet to get. So very proud of my W900A. Hopefully it lasts a long long time.
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post #5322 of 5419 Old 04-29-2015, 11:26 AM
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Originally Posted by steve1971 View Post
My W900A got a very good compliment last night from a friend of mine. He thought it was an OLED set and asked when did Sony start making OLED tv's? He was shocked as hell when I told him that it wasnt an OLED set but an LED set!!! Thats one of the biggest and best compliment my W900A set has yet to get. So very proud of my W900A. Hopefully it lasts a long long time.

I had my parents over a while back to watch LOTR "The Five Armies" on Blu-Ray since my Dad hadn't seen the movie yet and is a big fan of the books and the other movies. Needless to say my parents said it was the best looking movie they had ever seen on a tv, and they have been over many times for movie night. They will be over this Friday night for "The Avengers" since we are going to see "Age of Ultron" Saturday afternoon. They have seen Avengers before, but not at my house.

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post #5323 of 5419 Old 04-29-2015, 02:03 PM
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I had my parents over a while back to watch LOTR "The Five Armies" on Blu-Ray since my Dad hadn't seen the movie yet and is a big fan of the books and the other movies. Needless to say my parents said it was the best looking movie they had ever seen on a tv, and they have been over many times for movie night. They will be over this Friday night for "The Avengers" since we are going to see "Age of Ultron" Saturday afternoon. They have seen Avengers before, but not at my house.

I find it amazing Captain that our tv's are a 2013 set and they are still getting rave reviews on the net. To me it speaks volumes on just how good the W900A series was and still is even though they are now rarer then hens teeth. I think you can still find them on Amazon.com and Ebay but the asking price even for a used W900A is astranomical! That being said I have a question for you? Is that your tv on your avatar? If it is then can you post the pic of it because I would like to see your setup if you dont mind.

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post #5324 of 5419 Old 04-29-2015, 02:39 PM
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minor typo probably. from what i have read one of the limitations of most ( ?all) current 4k lcd tv's is their inability to do RGB 4.4.4 chroma on their hdmi input ports (for ex when in game mode). in contrast, many of the good current model 1080 HD lcd tv's (like our w900) can do chroma 4.4.4 RGB when the hdmi port is set to game mode. the importance of being able to do this 444 chroma mainly relates to using the tv as a pc monitor or with a HTPC (in order to bypass the tv inbuilt processing modes).

for the average consumer this might not matter because we normally use a YCbCr 4.2.0 video signal from stand alone dvd/blu-ray players. also since you still cant fit a full length 4k movie on a standard double layer blu-ray disc (and for this reason there are no 4K blu-ray players yet), early adopters of this 4k standard will be dependent on over the air or cable content for at least another year or two i suspect.


i still find the high claims of refresh rates (90, 100, 120, 240, etc) rather confusing for flatscreen televisions. one reason for this is the often deliberately misleading claims from various manufacturers. from what i can make out lcd tv's are still all basically only 60 hz ( which is linked to the old CRT standard of the 110 volt electrical system, or even 50 hz in europe with 220 volt). Any video frames being displayed when the lcd panel refresh above 60 hz is done by either interpolation ( adding newly created frames that dont exist in the original source material) and/or by some backlight trickery (like adding a black frame in between existing video frames).

as a consumer tech reviewer in a pc magazine recently put it:
the purpose of all this added processing is to reduce the visibly low video frame rate (perceived as a judder or blurring) in the PAL (25 frames/sec) or NTSC (30 frames/sec) video signal, or the flickering caused by the used display if that has refresh rates below +/- 100 hz. As a result with lcd display technology the individual pixels might need to turn on/off at 120 or 240 times per sec (eg "Hz") and the original number of video frames in the source material have been padded with added frames of "newly created" video (which still cant create a perfectly smooth video image for moving content).

on faster moving video, for ex sports or a panning video shot across a landscape, that is where the better interpolation methods will matter the most to remove judder/blurring. For 1080 HD lcd' tv's the various existing methods from the better tv makers are now pretty good at adding these new frames ( and the sony motionflow is particularly good, but you need to select the appropriate setting). however for 4K lcd tv's most manufacturing companies in 2015 still have technological limitations with panel refresh rates higher then 120 hz (as UFO indicated in his post).

similar limitations also still exist for pc lcd monitors. the manufacturers that recently make claims of 100 or 120 hz are using TN panels which are only 6 bit color (often used in cheap "gaming monitors" that make claims of super low latencies). the better quality 8 bit color panels (either MVA/PVA or IPS) still cant run higher then 60 or 70 hrz.
It is not a typo. This is when being fed a 1080p source, not a 4k source, although I am sure it also applies to 4K sources. As far as refresh rates, I am referring to the native refresh rate. In other words, how often the panel is refreshing its image without the assistance of any trickery. The w900a refreshes it image 240 times per second, regardless of what source its being fed or what motion smoothing options are engaged. For example, when all motion smoothing options are off and you feed it a 60hz signal, each frame will get displayed 4 times. In the same scenario with a 30hz signal, each frame will get displayed 8 times. As far as I am aware, 240hz is the highest refresh rate an LCD panel has ever achieved.
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post #5325 of 5419 Old 04-30-2015, 03:54 AM
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The w900a refreshes it image 240 times per second, regardless of what source its being fed or what motion smoothing options are engaged.
It's not strictly 240Hz solely. In fact the panel can be switched to 3 different refresh frequencies: 240Hz, 200Hz, and 192Hz, according to frequency of the source signal. 30/60Hz NTSC signals are using the 120Hz base mode, 50Hz PAL signals are using the 100Hz base mode, and 24p content is using the 96Hz base mode. (Everything times 2 for presentation on the W905's panel 240Hz panel, but the signal processor is originally working only with the base frequencies, and doubling everything at the very end.)

Interestingly, to that extend it does make a (minor) difference whether some 24p film content is delivered as true24p, or as 60i with 3:2 pulldown. The former uses the 96Hz base mode (4:4 pulldown), the latter uses the 120Hz base mode (5:5 pulldown, after input pulldown removal)
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post #5326 of 5419 Old 04-30-2015, 02:29 PM
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It is not a typo. This is when being fed a 1080p source, not a 4k source, although I am sure it also applies to 4K sources. As far as refresh rates, I am referring to the native refresh rate. In other words, how often the panel is refreshing its image without the assistance of any trickery. The w900a refreshes it image 240 times per second, regardless of what source its being fed or what motion smoothing options are engaged. For example, when all motion smoothing options are off and you feed it a 60hz signal, each frame will get displayed 4 times. In the same scenario with a 30hz signal, each frame will get displayed 8 times. As far as I am aware, 240hz is the highest refresh rate an LCD panel has ever achieved.

I can confirm UFO that 240hz is indeed the highest refresh rate an LCD panel has ever achieved. Sony says the W9 has a refresh rate of 960 but that translates to 240hz in reality. None of todays 4K tv's use a 240hz panel only 120hz which boggles my mind because you would think that a 4K tv would use the 240hz panel for the price you pay.
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post #5327 of 5419 Old 05-03-2015, 04:31 PM
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It is not a typo. This is when being fed a 1080p source, not a 4k source, although I am sure it also applies to 4K sources.
a quick google of the new JS8500 model indicates that samsung specs for this just released model lists that it indeed can do 4:4:4 chroma over HDMI (in game mode in 4K), but an early reviewer from an in depth testing website states they are still waiting to confirm this works correctly. if true, this would make it the first mainstream consumer 4K to do so. If samsung resolved this technical issue for 2015, it is likely the other major brands like sony have also addressed this (we dont get the new sony range till later in june here)

this new samsung JS8500 only became available here this week, and when i had a look at one on the WE it indeed initially gave a rather dull, flat and lifeless impression (but they had only just set it up in the last 24 hrs, and it was running a rather boring video loop). The second store i saw it in later that same day was very different, it had very good colors, great detail (as 4K should) and a much better quality image with deep blacks. it also had the 3 new specs that will make this years 4K lcd tv models much better ( 4K resolution, HDR, and a higher color gamut)

it will be good to see what sony has come up with for 2015, but most likely it will pretty much equal those samsung technical improvements (as will the other major brands like panasonic and LG). all this indicates the specs and manufacturing of mainstream 4k tv's is maturing, but if you already have a very good recent model 1080 HD tv there is no real reason to even consider spending around 5000$

one preview of upcoming 2015 lcd tv models mentioned that phillips this year will be using a new laser backlighting system to increase brightness and color gamut (rather then crystals), and that is a technology leap worth keeping an eye on (it makes the tv more bulky, but has an image that is bright with a very pure color balance)


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As far as refresh rates, I am referring to the native refresh rate. In other words, how often the panel is refreshing its image without the assistance of any trickery. The w900a refreshes it image 240 times per second, regardless of what source its being fed or what motion smoothing options are engaged.
yes i understand this, i was just commenting on what i see as the misleading technical terms and labels used by most manufacturers for these high refresh rates. if they call it "true 120" (or 240) the assumption would be you can feed it a 120 hz signal (from a pc or game console for ex) and run it at those refresh rates, which is not the case. a bit like mcdonalds calling its hamburgers "100% pure beef" and then later finding out it is a copy righted brand name for the product and not a content description.

acer just released in april a new 27' IPS 120 hz monitor with an increased color range (most previous 120 and 144 hz monitors had been 6 bit color TN technology so far), so this could mean that larger IPS panels at *true*higher Hz refresh rates might also soon be possible for lcd tv's

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post #5328 of 5419 Old 05-03-2015, 06:40 PM
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I saw the Samsung JS8500 today at best buy. It looked pretty impressive to me w/ very vivid colors. I'll admit Samsung's 2015 models look a lot better than Sonys offerings this year. It stated that the Samsung has a Clear Motion Rate (CMR) 240. So is that 240hz? Don't get me wrong, I still love my W9.
I'm just concerned Sony is losing (lost) their edge.
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post #5329 of 5419 Old 05-04-2015, 03:39 AM
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If anyone have a problem witch recording on hdd with your sony w900a (like nothing has been recorded, data from timer list disappear or amber light after a few min. gone) you must turn off automatic software download!!! It works!!! Greetings from Poland.
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post #5330 of 5419 Old 05-04-2015, 09:17 AM
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Samsung's 2015 models look a lot better than Sonys offerings this year..
could the difference in your observation be related to the lack of HDR in the early versions of the 2015 sony 4K tv's ? a few websites have indicated sony will provide HDR implementation with a firmware update later this year http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/sony-...1504204047.htm
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post #5331 of 5419 Old 05-04-2015, 10:02 AM
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I saw the Samsung JS8500 today at best buy. It looked pretty impressive to me w/ very vivid colors. I'll admit Samsung's 2015 models look a lot better than Sonys offerings this year. It stated that the Samsung has a Clear Motion Rate (CMR) 240. So is that 240hz? Don't get me wrong, I still love my W9.
I'm just concerned Sony is losing (lost) their edge.
That is indeed 240 htz from what I understand so good job Samsung. Second has lost their edge in my opinion!

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could the difference in your observation be related to the lack of HDR in the early versions of the 2015 sony 4K tv's ? a few websites have indicated sony will provide HDR implementation with a firmware update later this year http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/sony-...1504204047.htm
Maybe they could do the same for our W900A's. If a simple firmware update can give us HDR on our W9's then all the better. Will that happen I doubt it.
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post #5332 of 5419 Old 05-04-2015, 12:53 PM
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...... If a simple firmware update can give us HDR on our W9's then all the better.....
from what i can make out the term HDR (high dynamic range) will be a new standard for brightness/contrast that is to be included in the new 4K displays in the next few years ( but its exact specification has not even been agreed on yet). for HDR you need at least 800 or 1000 Nits brightness (which most 4K tv's from the better brands can do since 2014 i believe).

sony's delay in fully implementing it for 2015 released models is probably a good example, they will have built in the required hardware and backlighting to reach the required levels, but are still finalizing its software implementation (which will shortly be provided by their firmware and software upgrade)

i think most good HD 1080 lcd tv's from recent years are around 300 to 500 Nits, so it is not simply a matter of providing a software or firmware upgrade to allow for HDR
edit: i checked the specs for our w900a and one detailed review measured this as 104.1 foot-lamberts (= 356.6 nit), which is very good for a HD lcd tv (http://hdguru.com/sony-kdl-55w900a-led-lcd-hdtv-review/ )

still, iirc the general concept of high dynamic range video or photography has been around for many years, and it is now at long last being focused on by the UHD display manufacturers as one of the 3 main ways of increasing the quality of the video being displayed ( eg better quality of display pixels, wider color gamut, and HDR)

it will be some years before this new leap forward in UHD tv settles on agreed technical standards, and it will take that same amount of time for new UHD video material to start becoming readily available from bluray movie or tv broadcast sources. it will be interesting to watch this evolution, but unless you are prepared to spend 5000$ each year for a small upgrade step with little real benefit it is still much to early to consider switching from a good HD display imho.

this is a good recent article on HDR for UHD tv: http://www.trustedreviews.com/opinio...sion-explained
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post #5333 of 5419 Old 05-04-2015, 03:49 PM
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In fact there are different concepts or aspects of digital imaging (be it still, or video) that run under the term "HDR". And currently, now that HDR is the next (wannabe) big thing for TVs, the different aspects are getting hugely mixed up.

In (still) digital imaging, HDR mostly is a mixing of different exposures. In a bright summer scene, your standard camera just cannot capture all faint details in bright-glowing areas, AND all faint details in dark shadow areas at the same time. HDR in still imaging mostly means to combine high-exposure of dark areas and low-exposure of bright areas into one image. To this extend, 10-bit color depth is advantageous, but not even truly necessary. HDR still imaging can be provided even in 8-bit color depth.

The other aspect of HDR is to expand in-picture contrast by allowing (smaller) bright spots to be shown much brighter than the generally-set calibration aim. This will be done by the "meta-data" provided along with the (supposely) 10-bit-depth video data. The video data in 10-bit (or even 12? I'm not sure ATM) provides fine-enough granularity, and the meta-data describes how bright or dark the different brightness ranges for the current frame should be reproduced. If anyone ever edited an image in a picture editor with a "custom curve"-operation: The new "HDR"-feature is more or less like this, with the HDR-meta-data describing the shape of the "custom curve".

Anyway. The aspect of the benefits of 10-bit video data will be advantegeous to any TV, even if it doesnt't feature HDR as such. And it doesn't even need a software update, as long as the TV is able to rerasonably work with a 10-bit video source as input.
As far as the "expanded brightness" aspect is concerned: Please, please, please do NOT feature this to the W9's via software update. If HDR is 'realized' on an LCD panel, the minimum requirement is a FALD panel. With edge-lit panels, it would be nothing but a distracting disaster. Imagine a candle light in the middle of the screen, on an almos-black background. How do you get the light for extended-brightness into the candle flame? Yes, exactly: by simulataneously destroying the blacklevels performance on the way between edge-light and candle flame.

The newly-promoted HDR feature does not (i.e: not really) work with edge-lit panels. Period.
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post #5334 of 5419 Old 05-04-2015, 05:43 PM
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i would agree that using edge lit backlighting does not seem very appropriate for HDR lcd tv's because of the inherent limitations in its basic design structure, but sony is doing it (unless i am mixing up the new sony models being released)

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The sony new X930C and X940C series will also be compatible with High Dynamic Range (HDR) content via a firmware update this summer, which will add HDMI 2.0a capability (among other things) to the set to enable reading HDR metadata from specially encoded HDR content..........

...........The 65-inch 930C model uses edge-lit LED lighting with local dimming, while the 75-inch model features full-array LED backlighting with local dimming. Sony adds its X-tended Dynamic Range (65-inch model) and X-tended Dynamic Range PRO (75-inch model) systems to “deliver a peak brightness of LED (Sony is not quoting exact brightness levels) as well as deeper blacks,” for a “superior viewing experience compared to that of normal HDR video sources as well as any other video source,” according to the company.
from http://hdguru.com/sony-spotlights-hd...15-4k-uhd-tvs/

didnt the the high end HD 55' sony model of 2012 have FALD ? yet the 2013 model after it with edge lit dimming (our w900a) had better black levels and higher contrast. even if these newer specs were a little better on paper, of course it wouldnt have been able fully overcome the inherent limitations of edge lighting (and FALD would have been better implementation , but more expensive )
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post #5335 of 5419 Old 05-05-2015, 07:17 PM
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Quote:
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i would agree that using edge lit backlighting does not seem very appropriate for HDR lcd tv's because of the inherent limitations in its basic design structure, but sony is doing it (unless i am mixing up the new sony models being released)

from http://hdguru.com/sony-spotlights-hd...15-4k-uhd-tvs/

didnt the the high end HD 55' sony model of 2012 have FALD ? yet the 2013 model after it with edge lit dimming (our w900a) had better black levels and higher contrast. even if these newer specs were a little better on paper, of course it wouldnt have been able fully overcome the inherent limitations of edge lighting (and FALD would have been better implementation , but more expensive )
Jorgens the W9 replaced 2012's HX950/HX850. The 950 was FALD and many tests showed the W9 beat it in black level torture test's and contrast. That was unheard of for an edge lit set with local dimming to beat out a FALD in black levels and contrast. It even beat out the excellent HX850 which was a edge lit set with local dimming! The W9 was supposed to be the next XBR model in Sony's XBR line until they decided the 4K X900A would get that designation because it was (big freakin deal!) 4K. HDR wouldnt be hard to implement in a edge lit set with local dimming with a firmware upgrade because they are already going to do it with their new 2015 models. That all being said the only complaint I have with my W900A is its built in speakers. I had to live without my AVR for a week and was forced into using my sets built in speakers and OMG I will never do that again!!!!! The sound isnt bad but a beautiful tv like the W9 wont score any points with me for its sound. A tv like the W9 deserves either a sound bar or a full 5.1/7.1 surround sound system or a Dolby Atmos system!
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post #5336 of 5419 Old 05-10-2015, 10:59 AM
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What is the '14 or '15 model of this TV? Is the '14 the 5W950B? Because I've heard disastrous, multiple reports on its black levels, unlike this TV. I want a TV with excellent input lag, and no glaring problems like terrible black levels.

This model is hard to find nowadays and I am wondering if I should look for a place to buy it, or if there is a new model that I haven't seen yet. Can anyone help?
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What is the '14 or '15 model of this TV? Is the '14 the 5W950B? Because I've heard disastrous, multiple reports on its black levels, unlike this TV. I want a TV with excellent input lag, and no glaring problems like terrible black levels.

This model is hard to find nowadays and I am wondering if I should look for a place to buy it, or if there is a new model that I haven't seen yet. Can anyone help?

Node. First the W950B was the successor to the W900A and its a 2014 model. Unlike the W900A it dont have the QD tech or the Deep Black Panel Sony used. Its black levels and contrast arent bad but they come nowhere near the excellent black levels or contrast that the W900A has. The W950A is a great tv for daytime viewing but if you watch movies in the dark such as with the lights off then you will notice the sub par black levels. Now as for finding a W900A to buy? They are getting rarer then hens teeth. I believe you can still find them on Amazon.com but I dont know of anywhere else. As for a 2015 replacement model from Sony? Honestly I havent paid much attention because everything coming out from Sony seems to be 4K and I have ZERO interest in anything 4K.
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post #5338 of 5419 Old 05-10-2015, 02:51 PM
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Node. First the W950B was the successor to the W900A and its a 2014 model. Unlike the W900A it dont have the QD tech or the Deep Black Panel Sony used. Its black levels and contrast arent bad but they come nowhere near the excellent black levels or contrast that the W900A has. The W950A is a great tv for daytime viewing but if you watch movies in the dark such as with the lights off then you will notice the sub par black levels. Now as for finding a W900A to buy? They are getting rarer then hens teeth. I believe you can still find them on Amazon.com but I dont know of anywhere else. As for a 2015 replacement model from Sony? Honestly I havent paid much attention because everything coming out from Sony seems to be 4K and I have ZERO interest in anything 4K.
Thanks for the reply. I don't want to make a purchase more difficult or time consuming than it needs to be. I just want a nice HDTV around this size with low input lag, since I am going to be almost exclusively playing games on it, as well as no nasty issues like the 950B's black levels for example.

It sounds like I just can't disappoint myself with the W900A? I won't be missing out on anything incredibly important (I don't consider 4K important to my tastes) with that purchase?

Thank you kindly.
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post #5339 of 5419 Old 05-10-2015, 06:38 PM
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Node, the W9 is a spectacular TV for gaming. I do a lot of gaming on my W9 with both the PS4 and Xbox One.
If you look way back in this thread i posted a few shots of Infamous. I won't get technical but the colors the W9 can reproduce
are stunning. You won't get a better TV for gaming.
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post #5340 of 5419 Old 05-10-2015, 06:46 PM
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Quote:
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Thanks for the reply. I don't want to make a purchase more difficult or time consuming than it needs to be. I just want a nice HDTV around this size with low input lag, since I am going to be almost exclusively playing games on it, as well as no nasty issues like the 950B's black levels for example.

It sounds like I just can't disappoint myself with the W900A? I won't be missing out on anything incredibly important (I don't consider 4K important to my tastes) with that purchase?

Thank you kindly.
The w900a is the best gaming television ever made. Period. Not only does it have excellent picture quality that still to this day is way ahead of any of the current LCD offerings, it also manages to maintain its image quality in game mode. This is something a lot of people seem to never mention. When you engage game mode on a Samsung or other brand television, the image quality degrades drastically. For this reason, Samsung may have been able to achieve low input lag for their 2015 4k televisions but they have yet to do so while maintaining excellent picture quality. As far as a place to buy them, a few have shown up on Amazon from the seller "Total Perfection". I am thinking about buying another one but I am not sure about buying from a third party. It seems to good to be true that there are brand new in the box w900a's sitting somewhere. For reference here is the link: http://www.amazon.com/Sony-KDL-55W90.../dp/B00AWKBZ0M
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