Official Sony KDL-55W900A Owners Thread - Page 178 - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #5311 of 5319 Unread 04-19-2015, 03:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Jorgens View Post
for the average piece of high street electronics made in 3e world countries that is pretty correct

but this is where manufacturing quality and product design (components) comes in. and it should be the case that for the more reputable brands, and particularly their higher end models, that we have a 10+ years life expectancy for this type of product (unless you are extremely unlucky and get a monday lemon). lcd is also a mature and well understood technology, and if no manufacturing errors occur, should have a fairly predictable lifespan.

my estimate, and we can only talk personal opinions or refer to consumer reports here, would be that in 10 yrs time 90% of the higher end tv models from brands like sony/samsung/LG/panasonic will still be functioning perfectly fine. and most of the faulty ones will have been identified in the first few months (or even weeks) of use. and that is what the average consumer has to be able to expect for a good TV, fridge or washing machine. most people who will purchase new products within that 10 yr time span would do so out of choice because they want new features or a newer product of a different design.

in contrast, most of the big electronic stores that sell "no brand" cheap chinese crap (pardon my french) at discount prices will have a high failure rate. these devices are made from parts provided by the lowest bidders, are designed to provide basic features with low spec technology, use cheap manufacturing processes, and have poor quality control. Their sales model is also based on profits to be made from by high volume sales at low discounted prices , and high failure rates are simply part of this

however in our case, other then in the future maybe wanting a larger display or a newer/better technology (like oled in 5 yrs or so when the technology has matured) most of us should be pretty safe expecting +10 yrs imho. btw, most current oled tv's do have a limited lfespan, and early reports indicate one of the 3 primary color oled's used in many of those screens only lasts for 2 or 3 yrs (after which ii starts to fade prematurely, and this obviously would distort the quality of the image). for early adopters who have money to burn this might not matter, in a couple of yrs they would move onto the next toy

Well said Jorgens. Couldnt have said better.
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post #5312 of 5319 Unread 04-22-2015, 11:55 AM
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it looks like Samsung might have its version of the W9.

http://www.samsung.com/us/video/tvs/UN55JS8500FXZA

Its a 4K with QD. I haven't seen it in person yet but Im very curious how it stacks
up to our beloved W9.
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post #5313 of 5319 Unread 04-23-2015, 08:07 AM
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Originally Posted by helvetica bold View Post
it looks like Samsung might have its version of the W9.

http://www.samsung.com/us/video/tvs/UN55JS8500FXZA

Its a 4K with QD. I haven't seen it in person yet but Im very curious how it stacks
up to our beloved W9.

helvetica bold, I am also interested to see how it stacks up against our W900A's as well. On paper it looks to be a beautiful set from Samsung but until I see it in person thats all I will say. I have said it once and I will say it again and that is I think it was a BIG mistake for Sony to drop the QD technology.
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post #5314 of 5319 Unread 04-25-2015, 03:03 PM
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^^ I think it's all about timing. There was no need for Sony to utilize QD to sell 4K TVs over the last couple of years. And certainly not in their interest to have a lower definition TV in their line up that is able to compete with their 4K TVs with respect to picture quality. At least for 99% of the content used today.

I think QD will make a return in the next year or two once their Marketing team decides it is needed. It's a pity that they let Samsung (apparently) beat them to the punch. Now it will look as if they are simply following the market rather than leading it.

Another explanation behind the lack of development in this area could be that Sony is about to pull the plug on their TV division. So rather than trying to keep pace or ahead of Samsung and the others, Sony are simply trying to recover the cost of developing their current models, and once they've been left behind, they will stop selling TVs.

Most TV manufacturers (and retailers) were expecting a much larger wave of 4K uptake. If Sony's TV division are failing to make their forecast revenue for 4K, they could be on the chopping block. It's been discussed before and I don't think the decision would surprise anyone.

Personally, I'll be gutted if there isn't a competitive Sony TV on the market in 5 to 7 years time when I'm ready to upgrade again.
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post #5315 of 5319 Unread Yesterday, 11:03 AM
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there is a good list of some recent movies with high quality video material ( "Reference Status - The 20 Best Blu-rays for Picture and Sound ") at https://www.avforums.com/article/20-...nd-sound.10416

from that lists suggestions i just watched the 50th anniversary special edition and digitally remastered version of "Lawrence of Arabia" , and the quality of the video image was absolutely spectacular on this excellent sony tv (keeping in mind it is a 50 year old movie recorded on analogue film that was remastered to 4K, and not a modern 4k digitally filmed movie ).

the scenery detail and video quality was very good in the new 1080p version i just watched, and it is a completely new experience to see it like this. highly recommended for anybody who liked the movie. with this directors cut they added a lot of the material that had been removed for the original cinema release, but the added footage (particularly of some of the desert scenes) really adds depth of story and gives a more powerful visual impression
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The work to create a newly restored Lawrence of Arabia for 2012 came about because we wanted to present the film in the best way possible for its anniversary. The plan was to fix the damage to the film that couldn’t be fixed in 1988 simply because the technology to do so did not exist at the time. The digital tools available today allow us to repair film damage in a precise manner so as to render the film as close to its original look as possible. We began the work with extensive preparation and testing in 2010. The 65mm original picture negative was scanned at 8k (the equivalent resolution of the 65mm negative), generating a file size of 8192 x 3584 pixels. The film was scanned on two large format 65mm Imagica XE scanners at FotoKem laboratory in Burbank. The files were then reduced to a 4K file size (four times the resolution of High Definition and the highest standard digital workflow) and moved to digital image restoration facility Colorworks at Sony Pictures Studios, where all the restoration work came together.
from the review at http://www.renewtheaters.org/blog/20.../#.VT0fg5ONhUM

highly recommended for anybody who liked this historical movie
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post #5316 of 5319 Unread Yesterday, 03:03 PM
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helvetica bold, I am also interested to see how it stacks up against our W900A's as well. On paper it looks to be a beautiful set from Samsung but until I see it in person thats all I will say. I have said it once and I will say it again and that is I think it was a BIG mistake for Sony to drop the QD technology.
I have seen the JS8500 in person and it does not hold a candle to the w900a in terms of depth. All the 2015 Samsung 4K televisions have a contrast ratio around 1900-2000:1 and it really shows. Very flat picture if your used to higher contrast. Also, no one seems to point out the fact that while they do how low input lag, they can only do 4:4:4 in PC mode, which has over 40ms of input lag. Another thing is the w900a has a native 240hz panel, while all current 4K panels are only 120hz panels.
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post #5317 of 5319 Unread Today, 01:04 PM
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Originally Posted by MarkNZL View Post
^^ I think it's all about timing. There was no need for Sony to utilize QD to sell 4K TVs over the last couple of years. And certainly not in their interest to have a lower definition TV in their line up that is able to compete with their 4K TVs with respect to picture quality. At least for 99% of the content used today.

I think QD will make a return in the next year or two once their Marketing team decides it is needed. It's a pity that they let Samsung (apparently) beat them to the punch. Now it will look as if they are simply following the market rather than leading it.

Another explanation behind the lack of development in this area could be that Sony is about to pull the plug on their TV division. So rather than trying to keep pace or ahead of Samsung and the others, Sony are simply trying to recover the cost of developing their current models, and once they've been left behind, they will stop selling TVs.

Most TV manufacturers (and retailers) were expecting a much larger wave of 4K uptake. If Sony's TV division are failing to make their forecast revenue for 4K, they could be on the chopping block. It's been discussed before and I don't think the decision would surprise anyone.

Personally, I'll be gutted if there isn't a competitive Sony TV on the market in 5 to 7 years time when I'm ready to upgrade again.
So basically they quit the QD tech because it looked just as good on the W900A as it did on their X900A 4K tv and they didnt want the consumer to see or know that because in a nutshell that would effect tv sales. That being said I would hate to see Sony leave the tv buisness behind as well because Sony really is the only brand I trust when it comes to tv's.

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Originally Posted by *UFO* View Post
I have seen the JS8500 in person and it does not hold a candle to the w900a in terms of depth. All the 2015 Samsung 4K televisions have a contrast ratio around 1900-2000:1 and it really shows. Very flat picture if your used to higher contrast. Also, no one seems to point out the fact that while they do how low input lag, they can only do 4:4:4 in PC mode, which has over 40ms of input lag. Another thing is the w900a has a native 240hz panel, while all current 4K panels are only 120hz panels.

Thanks for the update UFO. Nice to know that the 4K Sammy still dont beat my W900A! One thing I find funny about the 4K tv's is they still only use 120hz refresh rate panels when you think they would use higher refresh rate panels for 4K. But oh I forgot, its all about the pixels and nothing else.
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post #5318 of 5319 Unread Today, 01:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Jorgens View Post
there is a good list of some recent movies with high quality video material ( "Reference Status - The 20 Best Blu-rays for Picture and Sound ") at https://www.avforums.com/article/20-...nd-sound.10416

from that lists suggestions i just watched the 50th anniversary special edition and digitally remastered version of "Lawrence of Arabia" , and the quality of the video image was absolutely spectacular on this excellent sony tv (keeping in mind it is a 50 year old movie recorded on analogue film that was remastered to 4K, and not a modern 4k digitally filmed movie ).

the scenery detail and video quality was very good in the new 1080p version i just watched, and it is a completely new experience to see it like this. highly recommended for anybody who liked the movie. with this directors cut they added a lot of the material that had been removed for the original cinema release, but the added footage (particularly of some of the desert scenes) really adds depth of story and gives a more powerful visual impression
from the review at http://www.renewtheaters.org/blog/20.../#.VT0fg5ONhUM

highly recommended for anybody who liked this historical movie

I watched it over the weekend with my wife Jorgens on our W900A and the image quality was nothing short of jaw dropping.
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post #5319 of 5319 Unread Today, 03:58 PM
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I have seen the JS8500 in person .......... they can only do 4:4:4 in PC mode
minor typo probably. from what i read one of the limitations of most ( ?all) current 4k lcd tv's right now is their inability to do RGB 4.4.4 chroma on their hdmi input ports (for ex when in game mode).

in contrast, many of the better 1080 HD current lcd tv's (like our w900) can do chroma 4.4.4 RGB when an hdmi input port is in game mode (also in grafix mode and photo mode, but both of those modes have higher lag then the game modes so are of lesser use). the importance of being able to do this mainly relates to using the tv as a pc monitor, game console display device, or for video enthusiast who want to use it as a display while bypassing most inbuilt tv processing modes (like for HT use with a HTPC).

if we just use the YCbCr 4.2.0 video signal from a stand alone dvd/blu-ray player ,the lack of 444 capability wouldnt matter to the average consumer (but since you cant fit a full length 4k movie on a standard double layer blu-ray disc this wouldnt matter either, because there are no 4K players yet). early adopters of this 4k standard will be dependent on over the air or cable content for at least another year or two i suspect..

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Another thing is the w900a has a native 240hz panel, while all current 4K panels are only 120hz panels.
i still find the high claims of refresh rates (90, 100, 120, 240, etc) rather confusing for flatscreen televisions. from what i can make out lcd tv's are still all basically only 60 hz ( which is linked to the old CRT standard of the 110 volt electrical system, or even 50 hz in europe with 220 volt). anything video frames being displayed above 60 hz is done by either interpolation (eg by adding frames that dont exist in the original source material) and/or by backlight trickery (with for ex a strobing type of black frame added in between existing frames with video information).

as a consumer tech reviewer in a pc magazine recently put it:
Quote:
Bottom line: Refresh rate is how often the TV shows a new image. Anything above 60Hz is entirely the invention of the TV itself. All modern video is either 24 frames per second (movies and most TV shows), 60 fields per second (1080i video), or 60 frames per second (720p video). Higher refresh rates are simply used to increase apparent motion resolution (using "newly created" video frames which were not present in the original source material).
note: The 600Hz with plasmas is largely marketing, but is technically how plasme works, which is different from lcd.
the purpose of all this is to reduce the visible video frame on/off effect that most humans can perceive as a flickering in the 25 (PAL) or 30 (NTSC) video "frames" being sequentially displayed. for humans, if this is somewhere below 80 or 100 frames/sec, we dont perceive the video as being smooth. the end result is that the lcd individual pixels might turn on/off at 120 or 240 times per sec (eg "Hz") but he original number of video frames in the source material has been padded with added frames of "newly created" video (which cant completely create a perfectly smooth video image).

with static video, watching the news for ex where there is little movement of a "talking head", these added frames and lighting tricks work fairly well (and have removed the anoying flikkering of a 50/60 HZ signal being displayed by boosting it to 120 or 240 hz). but on faster moving video (for ex sports or panning shots across a landscape, or watching other fast moving objects in a larger scene), that is where the better interpolation methods will matter more.

for 1080 HD lcd' tv's the various existing methods from the better tv makers can add these new frames and switch individual lcd/led's on/off up to 120 or 240/sec to create 120 or 240 hz (which is why sony and samsung spend so much time and effort on their "motion engines") , but for 4K lcd tv's these same manufacturing companies in 2015 still struggle to try and get these new 4K panels to perform above 120 hz (as UFO indicated in his post).

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