Official Sony KDL-55W900A Owners Thread - Page 179 - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #5341 of 5368 Old 05-10-2015, 07:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Node View Post
Thanks for the reply. I don't want to make a purchase more difficult or time consuming than it needs to be. I just want a nice HDTV around this size with low input lag, since I am going to be almost exclusively playing games on it, as well as no nasty issues like the 950B's black levels for example.

It sounds like I just can't disappoint myself with the W900A? I won't be missing out on anything incredibly important (I don't consider 4K important to my tastes) with that purchase?

Thank you kindly.


Node, I dont think I could have said it any better then helvetica bold or UFO did but just to answer your question of "It sounds like I just can't disappoint myself with the W900A? I won't be missing out on anything incredibly important (I don't consider 4K important to my tastes) with that purchase? No you wouldnt be dissapointed with the W900A as either just a gaming tv or a tv for movie watching. You get the best of BOTH worlds with the W900A. In my opinion it is STILL the best tv yet made by Sony.
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post #5342 of 5368 Old 05-10-2015, 08:54 PM
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Originally Posted by helvetica bold View Post
Node, the W9 is a spectacular TV for gaming. I do a lot of gaming on my W9 with both the PS4 and Xbox One.
If you look way back in this thread i posted a few shots of Infamous. I won't get technical but the colors the W9 can reproduce
are stunning. You won't get a better TV for gaming.
Quote:
Originally Posted by *UFO* View Post
The w900a is the best gaming television ever made. Period. Not only does it have excellent picture quality that still to this day is way ahead of any of the current LCD offerings, it also manages to maintain its image quality in game mode. This is something a lot of people seem to never mention. When you engage game mode on a Samsung or other brand television, the image quality degrades drastically. For this reason, Samsung may have been able to achieve low input lag for their 2015 4k televisions but they have yet to do so while maintaining excellent picture quality. As far as a place to buy them, a few have shown up on Amazon from the seller "Total Perfection". I am thinking about buying another one but I am not sure about buying from a third party. It seems to good to be true that there are brand new in the box w900a's sitting somewhere. For reference here is the link: http://www.amazon.com/Sony-KDL-55W90.../dp/B00AWKBZ0M
You've sold me. Thank you for making this purchase a lot easier. Usually I stress myself and research for weeks before I even consider buying a television, but this just looks perfect.

Thanks everyone.

edit: looks like I do need to worry a bit about that Total Perfection reseller, I hope they answer their emails. Who'd ever think that a television would be a hard to find purchase?

Last edited by Node; 05-10-2015 at 09:14 PM.
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post #5343 of 5368 Old 05-11-2015, 08:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Node View Post
You've sold me. Thank you for making this purchase a lot easier. Usually I stress myself and research for weeks before I even consider buying a television, but this just looks perfect.

Thanks everyone.

edit: looks like I do need to worry a bit about that Total Perfection reseller, I hope they answer their emails. Who'd ever think that a television would be a hard to find purchase?
It's no surprise to me that's it's hard to find the W900A. It was a set that came out in 2013 and production was closed down in May or June of 2014. Anything that was left over in stock sold quickly due to it's popularity and if one show's up nowday's it gone and it dont matter if it's New, Used or Refurbished. It was one of Sony's best selling HDTV's and it's hard to question why. The ONLY weakness the W9 has is it's built in speakers but honestly is there a flat screen tv that's ever had great sounding built in speakers?
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post #5344 of 5368 Old 05-11-2015, 09:10 AM
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Originally Posted by *UFO* View Post
The w900a is the best gaming television ever made. Period. Not only does it have excellent picture quality that still to this day is way ahead of any of the current LCD offerings, it also manages to maintain its image quality in game mode. This is something a lot of people seem to never mention. When you engage game mode on a Samsung or other brand television, the image quality degrades drastically. For this reason, Samsung may have been able to achieve low input lag for their 2015 4k televisions but they have yet to do so while maintaining excellent picture quality. As far as a place to buy them, a few have shown up on Amazon from the seller "Total Perfection". I am thinking about buying another one but I am not sure about buying from a third party. It seems to good to be true that there are brand new in the box w900a's sitting somewhere. For reference here is the link: http://www.amazon.com/Sony-KDL-55W90.../dp/B00AWKBZ0M
Wow, that's tempting but the seller has questionable ratings. Highly doubt that those are actually brand new at that price. With all the praise this TV gets, I probably should've bought one of these when they were $1399 brand new from the Sony store.
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post #5345 of 5368 Old 05-11-2015, 07:18 PM
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Originally Posted by S_G7 View Post
Wow, that's tempting but the seller has questionable ratings. Highly doubt that those are actually brand new at that price. With all the praise this TV gets, I probably should've bought one of these when they were $1399 brand new from the Sony store.
Ive sent the seller 2 emails and have heard nothing.
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post #5346 of 5368 Old 05-11-2015, 10:36 PM
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I'm not sure if I can bite the bullet if I don't hear something from them.
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post #5347 of 5368 Old 05-12-2015, 08:02 AM
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UFO and Node.......Maybe the sellar doesnt have anymore or is no longer in buisness. Either way though he or she could send you and email at least to let you know. I had my wife check the net last night to check to see if anyone has any W9's for sale, even Ebay, and found nothing! All she found on Ebay was parts for the W9 and that was it. No one is parting with their W9's that owns one.
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post #5348 of 5368 Old 05-12-2015, 06:15 PM
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So with the announcement of Ultra BluRay general specs I'm wondering how much can the W9 take advantage the improved PQ. I realize there's things we don't know yet about UBR but the W9 could handle the 10bit, HFR or even the P3 color gamut? I care more about that stuff more so than resolution. From the sound of it we won't get the benefit of HDR but what possibly can we gain from the new format?
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Last edited by helvetica bold; 05-12-2015 at 06:16 PM. Reason: Typo
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post #5349 of 5368 Old 05-12-2015, 10:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by helvetica bold View Post
So with the announcement of Ultra BluRay general specs I'm wondering how much can the W9 take advantage the improved PQ. I realize there's things we don't know yet about UBR but the W9 could handle the 10bit, HFR or even the P3 color gamut? I care more about that stuff more so than resolution. From the sound of it we won't get the benefit of HDR but what possibly can we gain from the new format?
Considering the w900a uses at least a 10-bit panel (may be 12-bit), has the capabilities to show P3 (if you look at the spectrograph of the w900a, it is actually much better than that of the Samsung's SUHD line), and a native 240hz panel, sure it could easily take advantage of those new standards. However, it is unlikely a 2013 model will be getting any sort of update to take advantage of it.
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post #5350 of 5368 Old 05-13-2015, 09:10 AM
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this might have been posted at some point. Anyway, this is a great color gamut reference for the W9.
http://www.noteloop.com/kit/display/wide-gamut/sony-kdl-55w900a-triluminos-tv/[/url]

Heres an impressive fact
DCI-P3 colour space
W9 94.7%
Samsung UE65JS9500 (2015 flagship)
92%

Samsung went cadmium-free with their QD where Sony has in included.
http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/ue65j...1502234012.htm
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post #5351 of 5368 Old 05-13-2015, 10:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by helvetica bold View Post
So with the announcement of Ultra BluRay general specs I'm wondering how much can the W9 take advantage the improved PQ. I realize there's things we don't know yet about UBR but the W9 could handle the 10bit, HFR or even the P3 color gamut? I care more about that stuff more so than resolution. From the sound of it we won't get the benefit of HDR but what possibly can we gain from the new format?
helvetica as confirmed by Sony the W9 has a 10 bit panel or it was 12 I cant remember so I think it will handle the new specs just fine. In fact we may even get better PQ with our W9's then we already have if thats even possible. So what can we gain from the new format? Better PQ on top of the beautiful PQ that we already have in the W9. The only thing we probably wont get the benefit of is HDR sadly.
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post #5352 of 5368 Old 05-13-2015, 10:44 AM
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Originally Posted by *UFO* View Post
Considering the w900a uses at least a 10-bit panel (may be 12-bit), has the capabilities to show P3 (if you look at the spectrograph of the w900a, it is actually much better than that of the Samsung's SUHD line), and a native 240hz panel, sure it could easily take advantage of those new standards. However, it is unlikely a 2013 model will be getting any sort of update to take advantage of it.
I think the W9 will handle the new specs just fine except it wont be able to take advantage of HDR which is sad but it is what it is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by helvetica bold View Post
this might have been posted at some point. Anyway, this is a great color gamut reference for the W9.
http://www.noteloop.com/kit/display/wide-gamut/sony-kdl-55w900a-triluminos-tv/[/url]

Heres an impressive fact
DCI-P3 colour space
W9 94.7%
Samsung UE65JS9500 (2015 flagship)
92%

Samsung went cadmium-free with their QD where Sony has in included.
http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/ue65j...1502234012.htm

That is impressive indeed!
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post #5353 of 5368 Old 05-13-2015, 11:55 AM
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The question isn't so much what gamut the W9 can produce, but rather which kinds of colorspace inputs the W9 can understand. You guys are aware that, once new sources in P3 or Rec.2020 colorspace are available, the W9 cannot interpret them like they should be interpreted? The W9 knows about Rec.601 and Rec.709 input, and the not-really-standardised x.v.color. It does not know what P3 input is, or what Rec.2020 input is.
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post #5354 of 5368 Old 05-13-2015, 01:27 PM
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The question isn't so much what gamut the W9 can produce, but rather which kinds of colorspace inputs the W9 can understand. You guys are aware that, once new sources in P3 or Rec.2020 colorspace are available, the W9 cannot interpret them like they should be interpreted? The W9 knows about Rec.601 and Rec.709 input, and the not-really-standardised x.v.color. It does not know what P3 input is, or what Rec.2020 input is.
Exactly, and thats why I said it most likely won't be happening. If Sony put out a firmware update then of course its easily possible. But would they? I honestly don't think so. They would rather you just buy a new television. Its to bad because the w900a was literally built for WCG. Here are some graphs, the first one is just the w900a, the second on is the JS9500 put on top of the w900a. Look at the difference between the colors. The w900a performs better in all colors, with green and blue being much better. It was discovered in the QD calibration thread that the w900a can actually easily surpass P3, but only when looking at color slides in the service menu. It appears Sony has limited the gamut in standard operation mode.
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post #5355 of 5368 Old 05-13-2015, 02:06 PM
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Exactly, and thats why I said it most likely won't be happening. If Sony put out a firmware update then of course its easily possible. But would they? I honestly don't think so. They would rather you just buy a new television. Its to bad because the w900a was literally built for WCG. Here are some graphs, the first one is just the w900a, the second on is the JS9500 put on top of the w900a. Look at the difference between the colors. The w900a performs better in all colors, with green and blue being much better. It was discovered in the QD calibration thread that the w900a can actually easily surpass P3, but only when looking at color slides in the service menu. It appears Sony has limited the gamut in standard operation mode.

I have learned with Sony UFO to never say never with them. You say that Sony has limited the gamut in standard operation mode but does that apply to when the W9 is set to Cinema 1 mode as well? A simple firmware update could anwser all the questions but I am with you that its doubtful that Sony would do this because as you said they want us to buy a new set and for me thats not going to happen as long as my W9 is up and running. That all said I find it funny that the W9 beats out the Samsung in the color catagory. Not to bad for a tv thats still considered one of Sonys best.
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post #5356 of 5368 Old 05-15-2015, 07:06 PM
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W900A on its way! It was tough to find one. I made every effort I could to make sure this was in acceptable condition. Here's hoping to a good birthday present.
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post #5357 of 5368 Old 05-15-2015, 08:01 PM
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W900A on its way! It was tough to find one. I made every effort I could to make sure this was in acceptable condition. Here's hoping to a good birthday present.

Good to hear Node! You now will own one of the best tv's ever made by Sony in my book. If you have any questions when you get your tv just ask.
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post #5358 of 5368 Old 05-16-2015, 07:58 AM
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Congrats Node!
Hit me up if you want my games settings. I know it's poo-pooed to copy setting but I am very, very happy with mine.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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post #5359 of 5368 Old 05-17-2015, 10:05 PM
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Congrats Node!
Hit me up if you want my games settings. I know it's poo-pooed to copy setting but I am very, very happy with mine.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Can you repost them anyways? always nice to compare to others.

-Ty
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post #5360 of 5368 Old 05-20-2015, 07:47 PM
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Does anyone have their set hooked up to a Sony HTST7 soundbar? If so, could you please speak to the setup or a recommended setup? I have an Xbox one, TiVo, home theater PC, and Fire stick. Mainly use Xbox one, thinking of getting rid of the TiVo. Right now my soundbar connects via optical out of the set, my worry doing this with the HTST7 is that its 7.1 and I think the TV will only process 5.1?


Thank you!
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post #5361 of 5368 Old 05-21-2015, 05:52 PM
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Dead pixels. Everywhere. The entire center screen has smudges of black all over the place.

I knew it was too good to be true. Back to my XBR2 from 2007 I guess...

Is there something second best to the W900A?

Last edited by Node; 05-21-2015 at 05:55 PM.
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post #5362 of 5368 Old 05-21-2015, 07:56 PM
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Node, Im sorry to hear your W9 didn't work out!
If I was going to buy a TV today (for gaming & movies) most likely I would look at the new Samsung JS8500 SUHD TV.
If money isn't an issue go for Samsung's flagship, 65JS9500. Apparently is the fastest 4K panel so far.

"This makes Samsung’s achievement all the more outstanding – the 65JS9500 goes straight near the top of our input lag leaderboard as the most responsive 4K TV for gaming."

stellar review.
http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/ue65j...1502234012.htm
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post #5363 of 5368 Old 05-22-2015, 03:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Node View Post
Dead pixels. Everywhere. The entire center screen has smudges of black all over the place.

I knew it was too good to be true. Back to my XBR2 from 2007 I guess...

Is there something second best to the W900A?

Sorry Node to hear your W9 was a mess. Trust me its not common with the W900A. Who did you get it from again? I would give them a call and give them a peice of my mind if I were you. Whats second best to the W9? The new Samsung JS8500 SUHD TV. Thats the only tv I'd reccomend right now and if I didnt have my W9 thats the one I'd go for.
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post #5364 of 5368 Old 05-22-2015, 04:22 PM
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Sorry Node to hear your W9 was a mess. Trust me its not common with the W900A. Who did you get it from again? I would give them a call and give them a peice of my mind if I were you. Whats second best to the W9? The new Samsung JS8500 SUHD TV. Thats the only tv I'd reccomend right now and if I didnt have my W9 thats the one I'd go for.
Thanks for the reply. I'm only buying TVs from stores now. I just find it too risky to do it otherwise. The guy I bought it from is being stellar about it and being very good about the return. So I hope I can find that TV in stores.

I wonder how that curved screen works for viewing stuff on the computer.

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post #5365 of 5368 Old 05-22-2015, 04:27 PM
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Sorry Node to hear your W9 was a mess. Trust me its not common with the W900A. Who did you get it from again? I would give them a call and give them a peice of my mind if I were you. Whats second best to the W9? The new Samsung JS8500 SUHD TV. Thats the only tv I'd reccomend right now and if I didnt have my W9 thats the one I'd go for.
The entire JS series has low input lag in game mode, but if you read the dedicated threads you will see that game mode drastically reduces the picture quality. Thats how Samsung's game mode has worked for years. I would continue to hunt down a good w900a.
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post #5366 of 5368 Old 05-22-2015, 05:23 PM
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Anything is better than trying to hunt down W900As from individuals at this point.
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post #5367 of 5368 Old Today, 09:37 AM
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Originally Posted by helvetica bold View Post
So with the announcement of Ultra BluRay general specs I'm wondering how much can the W9 take advantage the improved PQ. I realize there's things we don't know yet about UBR but the W9 could handle the 10bit, HFR or even the P3 color gamut? I care more about that stuff more so than resolution. From the sound of it we won't get the benefit of HDR but what possibly can we gain from the new format?
i have been wondering the same thing while reading of the new upcoming rec.2020 UHD format. of all the new specs, the higher resolution is probably the least interesting part imho. the exiting part is the increased colour space, higher bit rate (stating 12 to 16 mb/sec is the minimum needed for "good" video quality), progressive video (50p, 60p, 100p and 120p even) and HDR. (note: for these higher frame rate progressive signals however HDMI cant cope, and you would need display link or display port connectors, which many of the new UHD TV's dont have yet). our w900a's can also already cope with 1080p50 and 1080p60, yet there is still no indication of any material at that level of quality to become available (the latest Hobbit movie might have a 48p version on bluray i believe)

Netflix indicated already that when bandwith fluctuations cause a reduction in transfer speeds for their new limited release 4k web broadcasts, they will preferentially reduce resolution to HD and keep HDR because viewers will perceive less reduction in video quality. SD bitrates for DTV are around 6 mb/sec, and HD DTV is between 9 and 13 mb/sec. SD DVD's are usually 6 or 8 mb/sec, and bluray can be from 15 to 35 m/sec. my point being: a good HD tv can already quite happily cope with the new "higher bit rate" they are lauding for UHD

an interesting point is that, if i understood it correctly, there was reference in some technical documents for UHD that the transition phase from HD to UHD (phase 1, which we are currently in till 2018 +/-) will initially allow some UHD material to use rec.709 color space. (see attachment)



the current 2015 UHD models also only use 85% of the new rec.2020 color space. as a comparison, quantum dot lcd's have a 50% larget color gamut then normal lcd's, and our w900a can already happily produce 73.9% of rec2020. Oled has an even larger color gamut then quantum dots and has no problems reaching a similar 85% of rec.2020, however it is struggling with the UHD resolution and experiences color bleed. Oled also still has problems reaching the 1000 nits spec level required for HDR brightness (LG has promised a firmware update for later this year to implement this on their just released first 4k oled tv). the display of the new rec.2020 is also very much dependent on using increased brightness levels, but 300 to 500 nits would be more then adequate.

Looking at the new 2015 range from the better main brands like sony, samsung, panasonic and LG, only a few select high end models use quantum dots, and from what i can make out they are all UHD. there are no more HD models with quantum dots ( or using other increased color gamut enhancements aside from OLED). if we can find a way to reduce UHD to HD, our current sony w900a's can cope with most of the other specs

The bluray HD and HDTV DTV broadcast standards specifies 100 nits max brightness. The new HDR standard uses a much brighter 1000 nits, but that much hgher level of brightness would be like looking directly into the sun, something which is very unrealistic to expect a tv to need to produce and use in any significant way (and would potentially be dangerous to your eyesight) . its main implementation will be in providing better contrast levels (eg the range between dark and light is what is important in creating better shades of grey/black and selectively brighten some parts of the screen), but 200 or 300 nits would be ample for that purpose in most situations (and iirc our sony w900 can already do 350 nits, with the quantum dot technology producing the increased brightness over what older lcd's with different back-lighting technologies can produce).

One very positive element of this new UHD standard is the use of HEVC compression (HD was h264/AVC) which provides 60% better compression, reducing bandwith needs(eg for broadcasts) and storage space. however a single UHD movie would still require 300 to 500 GB in space ! other then some UHD broadcasts of selected events , a widespread uptake of this technology for home users is highly unlikely for some yrs to come and it will remain a niche product. To keep this in context bluray never had a major success with the masses, and dvd is still the main format being used (and sold). similarly DVD-A and SACD never gained traction in the audio world, however good they were/are. worse even, where i live 2/3 of all DTV broadcasts are still only in SD, and only 1/3 are in HD ! in the real world most of us would be happy with HD at a decent bit rate (and better color space etc) rather then get some newer but further watered down low bitrate UHD. SD also scales ok to HD, but it is nonsense to try and scale it to UHD and expect a good result.

in short, i think it is still much to early to jump on the 4K wagon. these are great new specs to aim for, and we will all welcome the video improvements it promises, but it will take some time before they become relevant for most viewers. however as these improvements are gradually implemented, it will hopefully also improve the HD video experience at he same time. for those who dont have a good HD tv yet, or might want to update and get a larger/better screen size, i think it is a painful time to have to make a choice. only the high end models of the new UHD tv's from the main brands have in 2015 started to implement these new UHD specs, and prices range from 5000 to 8000 $ for a 65 or 70'. i havnt seen any 55' UHD models from the 4 main good brands that have all the high end specs (they lack the HDR or quantum dot elements usually).

by all indications our w900a's will happily last us a few more years while they standardize UHD specs further and they become more mainstream, or for any worthwhile amount of UHD material to become available. if only we could find a way to downconvert UHD to HD and keep most of the improved video quality elements, we would have the best of both worlds
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Originally Posted by Didee View Post
The question isn't so much what gamut the W9 can produce, but rather which kinds of colorspace inputs the W9 can understand. You guys are aware that, once new sources in P3 or Rec.2020 colorspace are available, the W9 cannot interpret them like they should be interpreted? The W9 knows about Rec.601 and Rec.709 input, and the not-really-standardised x.v.color. It does not know what P3 input is, or what Rec.2020 input is.
very true, and that is THE major hurdle

it is worth noting that sony themselves gave hope that this might be possible, or at least indicated at its release time in mid 2013 that the high specs of the w900a would be an advantage in dealing with (then) future higher color gamuts and newer improved video formats. from the C-net review of the kdl-w900a...... http://www.cnet.com/products/sony-kdl-55w900a/

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The standout, of course, is the "Triluminos" or "Color IQ" coating that enhances the picture's available colors by the application of a thin, multicolor-crystal film over the backlight. The company used the term a few years ago for its three-color LED system, but this is a different technology. The theory is that the TV is able to reproduce more of the colors that are in the source versus a standard LED, and Sony's representatives say it should be able to handle even wider color gamuts if -- big if -- they ever appear in the future. Interestingly, however, it still isn't wide enough to handle the color of Rec. 2020 .
note: the 2015 UHD models from sony/samsung etc can also only reproduce 85% of the new rec.2020 color space, so you could say they cant "handle" it either. with our w900a's being able to reproduce 73.9% of rec2020 i really dont think anybody will notice the difference

your point is correct however, i just dont think we are that far off !

my current hope is that something like the raspberry pi2 project will continue to evolve and provide better video hardware processing as it evolves to v3 and v4 etc. it would be a very inexpensive way to convert 4k to 2K from a stand alone low power device and could be flexible enough to add processing features to maintain an enhanced color space and improved video quality (bit rate, a "light" version of HDR maybe, 10 bit video, etc). going by the observations of a recent new pi2 user who is using it for video indicates ...
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Playback of 1080p h264 mainline level 4.1 using hardware acceleration used absolutely minimal CPU. I didn't try with anything with excessive bitrates, but it looks like if you can get it to the hardware decoder it can play it back at a suitable rate. I didn't try anything above 30FPS. Note that in this test it was also decoding DTS-MA and down-mixing to stereo (something which apparently the earlier RPis didn't have the grunt for).
The hardware decoder does not have 10-bit (Hi10P) h264 or HEVC h265 support. Hi10P will play back using the hardware decoder but with the normal artifacts from decoding 10-bit as 8-bit.
Software decoding was not capable of handling 720p h264, either 8-bit or 10-bit. All 4 cores were running at near 100% and it was getting <20FPS most of the time. It was similarly incapable of decoding 720p h265 (with considerably lower frame rates). The video lagged well behind the audio no matter what settings I used to try to keep them in sync.
I think it's likely that 480p h264 would be playable with software decoding, but I didn't have any suitable material to test with.
480p XviD played just fine with software decoding (~20-30% CPU usage) so probably has plenty of room to scale up if you happen to have >480p XviD.
I didn't test MPEG-2 but I expect the software decoding to handle it up to 1080p (e.g. if you want to use the RPi as a PVR). If not you can buy a license to hardware-decode MPEG-2 for about $5.
seems current Pi and Pi2 users are thinking in the same direction, and similar purpose video conversion might become a possibility for HTPC users even earlier. it would need some clever tech person like Madchi from the MadVR project to code it, but it is not THAT far from the realm of possibility

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