Official Sony KDL-55W900A Owners Thread - Page 193 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews

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post #5761 of 5788 Unread 10-20-2016, 08:23 AM
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Originally Posted by steve1971 View Post
Ha Ha good one but not happening. I wish that one were true but again not gonna happen.




The update wasnt for European models only because one if that were the case then why did I get an update yesterday? And two the European models normally get the updates first then it trickles down to the U.S Models.




That all being said. Have I noticed anything different PQ wise with the new update? No. PQ looks as sharp and beautiful as it always has.
Some guy over at the european forum said that the tv responds quicker (the menu etc). Dit you notice this also?
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post #5762 of 5788 Unread 10-20-2016, 01:50 PM
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I downloaded the update as well. I'll check for better response tonight.


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post #5763 of 5788 Unread 10-22-2016, 07:00 AM
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With the latest firmware update the tv's response time seem's quicker and my wife made a comment that the tv seem's to be sharper image wise off HD and Blu ray sources. Personally I havent noticed anything different PQ wise but her eye sight is better then mine I guess. But I think as far as HD sources such as Comcast they have really done a great job making their HD feed alot better so that could be what my wife is seeing I dont know. But response time is faster but the PQ, to me anyway. looks as beautiful as it always has and I dont think a firmware update can make it any better.
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post #5764 of 5788 Unread 10-22-2016, 04:44 PM
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Originally Posted by steve1971 View Post
With the latest firmware update the tv's response time seem's quicker and my wife made a comment that the tv seem's to be sharper image wise off HD and Blu ray sources. Personally I havent noticed anything different PQ wise but her eye sight is better then mine I guess. But I think as far as HD sources such as Comcast they have really done a great job making their HD feed alot better so that could be what my wife is seeing I dont know. But response time is faster but the PQ, to me anyway. looks as beautiful as it always has and I dont think a firmware update can make it any better.

I can confirm, the menu's and response times have definitely improved!

It's funny, because your second point (the Comcast HD quality) is the reason I came back today to check on some things. Bear with me...

SO, I have been in absolute LOVE with my tv since purchasing it years ago. Seriously. I get compliments all the time. Best purchase ever. For the last 8 months or so (new homeowner! Whooooo!), I've been cable free. Deciding to "cut the cord" was a great way to go. I purchased a cheap antennae from Walmart for local channels, purchased a Roku box, and have been streaming Sling tv, HBO Now, Netflix, and Amazon (with a buddy's Plex server mixed in). It's been glorious. Picture quality across all fronts has been exceptional. Fast forward to three days ago. Comcast was running a promotion that I couldn't pass up. For the same price as I was paying for the Sling/HBO/Internet, I'm now paying less for the new X1 with 140 channels, HBO, Showtime, and Internet. I love the new X1 setup btw, much better than when I had cable in the past.

ANYwho.

I'm finding that the HD channels from Comcast are incredibly varied when it comes to PQ. Channels like NFL Network, GOLF, and AMC are pretty decent. HBO, FX, and some of the local channels, however, are absolutely horrible. Sharpness feels like it's at CRT levels, pixelation and blocking on some of the deep blacks, motion blur...it's really bad. I checked all of my picture settings, and they haven't (or hadn't) changed at all. The ONLY thing that I did differently, was re-name my input to Cable Box (for the new HD DVR).

I'm pretty disappointed with the HD content thus far, to the tune of about 15 channels in particular. It's really odd!

Now, I'm at a point where I've reset my picture settings to factory (in an effort to start from scratch), which was a horrible move. I've been searching for calibration settings to try and get back to the old beautiful picture I once had, but it's been a struggle.

:/

Still LOVE my tv, but I'm trying to figure out where to start once again!
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post #5765 of 5788 Unread 10-23-2016, 01:43 AM
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i just viewed the 65' version of the Z9 at the sony store this afternoon (it only arrived here recently), and wow ! probably the best 4k lcd i have seen so far, and a significant step up from the previous 2015 70' FALD flagship from sony last year

for me the critical point in rating these higher end displays is how 3 dimensional the final video image (from a good quality video source file) looks on screen, and if it can create a "suspension of disbelief" that we are sitting in front of a flat display panel in our living rooms, and fool my brains into the illusion we are looking at a 3 dimensional real life image that has depth and texture. our w900a's do this very well, and the z9D takes this another step higher into the 4k realm, the picture is very very good, the best i have seen on any 4k display so far !

but at 5000$ USA RRP for the 65' model, ouch !! sadly completely unaffordable for most of us. and any significant discount pricing at sales times is also unlikely because the rep stated they have very low supplies of these units and sony will keep promoting them as a small volume premium product. and if you are lucky enough to be able to afford it, are you prepared for your "investment" to reduce significantly in value as next years better/newer models are released, and are you then prepared to again lash out with similar money for the next best thing every year ? not many of us can !

there is also still no 4k tv broadcasts here (except for netflix streaming of a few shows), so the main interest would be in upscaling 2k tv broadcast on free to air and cable. but with 70% of all free to air tv here still being only SD, and the few true HD channels we have broadcasting at very low mb/sec rates, this is an amazing 4k tv that is way ahead of the video source material most of us use have access to day to day (europe has more good quality high bitrate 2k broadcasts now, and i believe some broadcasts are soon starting in 4k for premium events like football etc.)

still, if i could afford it i would get one of these Z9D's in a flash, it is an exceptional tv. with all the folks raving about oled, i have never been that impressed by it with the "end result" of the video image. it has great color: yes, it has deep and dark blacks: yes, but i find the end result of the video image on screen is never very 3 dimensional, to me it looks flat and 2D (disclaimer: i have only seen them in store running demo loops)

the good news for us is that if this is a sign of future things to come from sony, the next few years *should* continue to improve further in video quality and prices *should* comer down significantly as this FALD technology spills over into mid range models. with all the hype from samsung and LG's oled, to me (in direct comparison) there is no doubt that sony maintains the leadership status with its premium high end tv's.
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post #5766 of 5788 Unread 10-24-2016, 07:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jorgens View Post
i just viewed the 65' version of the Z9 at the sony store this afternoon (it only arrived here recently), and wow ! probably the best 4k lcd i have seen so far, and a significant step up from the previous 2015 70' FALD flagship from sony last year

for me the critical point in rating these higher end displays is how 3 dimensional the final video image (from a good quality video source file) looks on screen, and if it can create a "suspension of disbelief" that we are sitting in front of a flat display panel in our living rooms, and fool my brains into the illusion we are looking at a 3 dimensional real life image that has depth and texture. our w900a's do this very well, and the z9D takes this another step higher into the 4k realm, the picture is very very good, the best i have seen on any 4k display so far !

but at 5000$ USA RRP for the 65' model, ouch !! sadly completely unaffordable for most of us. and any significant discount pricing at sales times is also unlikely because the rep stated they have very low supplies of these units and sony will keep promoting them as a small volume premium product. and if you are lucky enough to be able to afford it, are you prepared for your "investment" to reduce significantly in value as next years better/newer models are released, and are you then prepared to again lash out with similar money for the next best thing every year ? not many of us can !

there is also still no 4k tv broadcasts here (except for netflix streaming of a few shows), so the main interest would be in upscaling 2k tv broadcast on free to air and cable. but with 70% of all free to air tv here still being only SD, and the few true HD channels we have broadcasting at very low mb/sec rates, this is an amazing 4k tv that is way ahead of the video source material most of us use have access to day to day (europe has more good quality high bitrate 2k broadcasts now, and i believe some broadcasts are soon starting in 4k for premium events like football etc.)

still, if i could afford it i would get one of these Z9D's in a flash, it is an exceptional tv. with all the folks raving about oled, i have never been that impressed by it with the "end result" of the video image. it has great color: yes, it has deep and dark blacks: yes, but i find the end result of the video image on screen is never very 3 dimensional, to me it looks flat and 2D (disclaimer: i have only seen them in store running demo loops)

the good news for us is that if this is a sign of future things to come from sony, the next few years *should* continue to improve further in video quality and prices *should* comer down significantly as this FALD technology spills over into mid range models. with all the hype from samsung and LG's oled, to me (in direct comparison) there is no doubt that sony maintains the leadership status with its premium high end tv's.

Excellent post Jorgens and I agree on all your point's. The Sony Z9D is a fantastic 4K tv and if I had the cash to spend I would replace my W9 with one no question's asked and it's the ONLY tv right now that I would even consider replacing my W9 with. But the price is way out of my wife and I's price range and I doubt any potential sales will make a difference. But the Z9D is a beautiful tv and hopefully a sign of great thing's to come from Sony in the future.
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post #5767 of 5788 Unread 10-31-2016, 08:52 PM
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I looked up the HDMI chip I found on a picture of the main board
SII9589-ctuc
It's the 225MHz version so not quite the 340Mhz max HDMI 1.4 allows.
This might be helpful if your calculating what you can send to the TV.

To whmacs:
The HDFury linker was probably converting Rec2020 to Rec709, if it supported converting to x.v. Color / xvYCC that would be great, and should be noticeable with the right source.
Unless the firmware added Rec2020 (I don't think it did, but haven't upgraded yet)

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post #5768 of 5788 Unread 11-09-2016, 08:13 AM
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post #5769 of 5788 Unread 11-20-2016, 02:56 AM
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Originally Posted by whmacs View Post
Hi All,
I thought I would post my findings using an XBox One S and HDFury Linker to send 4K SDR/REC 2020 to the W9. The actual set up worked just fine. I programmed the Linker to "trick" the Xbox One S into thinking it was connected to a 4K TV that supports SDR / Rec 2020.
thanks for posting your observations and providing some W900 feedback on using the linker

from all i have read so far on the linker, it can be a little clunky to setup correctly (depending on what you are trying to do with it). in theory the latest firmware should make the linker default to the highest level video quality your display device can accept (the HDMI handshake is part of this semi automated process iirc), but it still takes some level of videophile expertise to check and make sure this works correctly (and the linker has a few bugs left in it, which can affect a specific resolution or bit depth etc).

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I really could not tell the difference in the colours of Rec2020 verses the usual Rec709. This may be a limitation of the W9.
correct, our w900's cant cope with the wider color spectrum of a rec2020 color spectrum signal being sent to it, it can only cope with rec709 ( but the future use of the x.v colour format could expand this close to the rec2020 spectrum).

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One thing I could not find on the TV was how to ensure deep colour was enabled.
given that deep color has to use a 10 or 12 bit signal, the only way i personally confirmed with test images that a 10 bit RGB 4.4.4 signal could be accepted by our w900 and be displayed correctly and unmodified is to use the "game mode" HDMI input setting (which bypasses most of the normal tv's internal video signal processing, and then simply uses the panel as a passive display) . the hdmi input port on the w900a also needs to be set correctly for "full" instead of "limited" iirc (which in my case matched the RGB-full signal setting of my htpc output).

we have confirmed our w900 panel is a true 10 bit display ( but it likely uses a 12 bit internal processing ) that accepts a 10 bit video signal, and it might even be able to accept a 12 bit signal over HDMI (unconfirmed) .

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Linker can not convert to x.v colour.
if your 4k video player/htpc that downconvert to 2k is set up correctly, the linker should be able to match them in video quality for 2k down-conversion , if it doesnt then something is incorrectly set on the linker (or the linker sales folks are incorrectly advertising/promoting features). i suspect if you see the linker as performing worse, it is not correctly setup (and it might be time consuming to find the cause, it took me weeks of testing my htpc and w900a setup to be fully satisfied it was optimally setup )

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To be honest, plugging the Xbox One S directly into the W9 and playing a 4K blu-ray looks superb. The XBox One S is sending a down scaled1080p 12Bit signal to the W9 and it looks great. There are tonnes of detail in the image (more detail that displaying the standard 1080p blu-ray) and the colours look great.
the linker should be able to match that performance right now already, if it doesnt it is either incorrectly setup (many users report similar linker problems) or there is a residual bug in the linker device/firmware. the main benefit you currently gain from using a 4k video on a 4k player and sending it down-converted to a good 2k display, is ...
a) the access you have to the higher quality source material from the 4k video (recorded at a higher quality/spec ) and when this is down-converted to 2k some of this benefit is maintained (a good analogy is using a high quality audio file source that is then converted to a 256 kb mp3, versus using a poor quality audio recording and also converting it to a 256 kb mp3, you WILL usually hear the difference ).
b) additionally (afaik) it is also possible to maintain a significant amount of the benefit from the 4k 10 bit luma information contained in this high quality source video when this video signal is down-converted to 1080p 10-bit (eg a higher gradient of detail in black/white signal information available in a 10 bit signal will provide a smoother gradient in light/dark transition (for ex in dark shadow detail etc), compared to the old bluray format using 8 bit luma which has more visible steps/banding)

Quote:
Originally Posted by whmacs View Post
So in conclusion I don't think the money for the HDFury is worth it to try and down scale 4K blu-ray for the W9.
i am still hopefull that in future firmware updates the linker unit will be able to
1) convert the 4k YCbCr 4.2.0 video from the 4k source material in one step to 4k RGB 4.4.4 and then further down-convert this video to 2k RGB 4.4.4 (which afaik would maintain a significant part of the higher Chroma information from the 4k source material, even if it reduces the signal from rec.2020 to rec.709 color space). think of this as maintaining more color detail and color shade nuance information ( but it is not a a wider color spectrum). for this to work however the YCbCr 4.2.0 (or 4.2.2.) to RGB 444 conversion must occur in the 4k domain
2) the last piece of the puzle would be if the linker can convert the rec.2020 color space to x.v.color, in which case we get most of the wider color spectrum benefits as well on our w900's (the linker manufacturers keep mentioning they are waiting to get further technical information to enable this, but as end users we dont have certainty on this)

right now the linker should be able to match your xbox 4k ----> 2k conversion quality (and so should any good 4k video player that has a decent inbuilt 2k down-conversion function). but if those last 2 points i mentioned are implemented in the linker, it will be able to significantly surpass the xbox (or other current stand alone 4k players) in the 2k video output performance that you see now (which as you already noticed does have some significant improvements over just using a "old style" 2k 1080 bluray movie )

thx for posting your observations
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post #5770 of 5788 Unread 11-22-2016, 07:55 AM
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Now I'm being told that if I hook up a 4K Blu ray player to my system that my W9 will not except the signal coming from the player and all I will get is a blank screen. Guys is this true?


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post #5771 of 5788 Unread 11-22-2016, 11:54 AM
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Now I'm being told that if I hook up a 4K Blu ray player to my system that my W9 will not except the signal coming from the player and all I will get is a blank screen. Guys is this true?


Not true at all. However if you want the best player that can downconvert to a 1080P TV, definitely go for the Panasonic UB900 and not the Samsung.
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post #5772 of 5788 Unread 11-22-2016, 07:23 PM
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thanks whmacs for trying.are you or anyone thinking of trying any other media player, besides the XBOX S?
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post #5773 of 5788 Unread 11-22-2016, 11:22 PM
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Not true at all. However if you want the best player that can downconvert to a 1080P TV, definitely go for the Panasonic UB900 and not the Samsung.
How is the Panasonic better than the Samsung at downcoverting? I grew tired of waiting on the Oppo 203 and got an XBone S. The Panasonic seems a bit expensive and will likely do much less than Oppo.
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post #5774 of 5788 Unread 11-23-2016, 08:21 AM
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Not true at all. However if you want the best player that can downconvert to a 1080P TV, definitely go for the Panasonic UB900 and not the Samsung.

Thanks. That's what I thought. The Panasonic UB900 is on my list for my next Blu ray player. And trust me I will not buy the Samsung player because I have heard and read to many negatives about it. But getting back to what I was told about hooking up a 4K player to my system. That was told to me buy a BB employee who said a 4K Blu ray player will not work with a 1080p tv because thats what he was told supposedly by a Sony rep. I knew it was all bs but I thought I would ask you guys. But thanks again viiv.
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post #5775 of 5788 Unread 11-25-2016, 07:38 AM
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was told to me buy a BB employee who said a 4K Blu ray player will not work with a 1080p tv because thats what he was told supposedly by a Sony rep.
if a 4k player only outputs 4k video, then no normal 1080 tv can cope with that signal being sent to it obviously

most, if not all, 4k players will however have some kind of video down-converter function built in and be able to send a lower resolution signal as well (for ex 1080, 720 and/or 480 ). this is simply good commercial sense from the manufacturers, to allow backward compatibility with older TV/display equipment (in the same way your current 1080 bluray player can probably output 480 SD as well).
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post #5776 of 5788 Unread 11-25-2016, 07:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Jorgens View Post
if a 4k player only outputs 4k video, then no normal 1080 tv can cope with that signal being sent to it obviously

most, if not all, 4k players will however have some kind of video down-converter function built in and be able to send a lower resolution signal as well (for ex 1080, 720 and/or 480 ). this is simply good commercial sense from the manufacturers, to allow backward compatibility with older TV/display equipment (in the same way your current 1080 bluray player can probably output 480 SD as well).

I think Jorgen's the BB employee just wanted to suck me into buying a 4K tv which wasnt going to happen. It's all good.
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post #5777 of 5788 Unread 11-28-2016, 07:12 AM
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I watched Batman Vs Superman last night for the first time on Blu ray and the PQ was stunning while the movie itself was so so. When Blu ray movies look this good on my W9 it just pushes me further and futher away from switching to 4K/HDR.
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post #5778 of 5788 Unread 12-04-2016, 10:36 AM
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I'm using my w905a with my HTPC and was wondering if the w9 supports 12 bit 1080p signals at frame rates higher than 30?

I can set my nvidia card to output 12 bit RGB at 1080p23, 1080p29 and 1080p30, but when I try 1080p50 or 1080p60 I get a quick green flash followed by a black screen. I'm considering buying a new HDMI cable if the TV does support these modes but don't want to waste the money on a new cable if it doesn't.

Sony support were no help at all, twice stating that this information was confidential which amused and bemused me.

Would appreciate hearing from anyone that's doing this with there w900/w905.

Thanks
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post #5779 of 5788 Unread 12-04-2016, 06:58 PM
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It's should accept 60 fps signal. There are several 60fps games on PS4. Battlefront for example runs really smooth and it hits 60. And yes PS4 outputs 12bit deep color.
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post #5780 of 5788 Unread 12-05-2016, 04:57 AM
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Originally Posted by ronedition30 View Post
I'm using my w905a with my HTPC and was wondering if the w9 supports 12 bit 1080p signals at frame rates higher than 30?

I can set my nvidia card to output 12 bit RGB at 1080p23, 1080p29 and 1080p30, but when I try 1080p50 or 1080p60 I get a quick green flash followed by a black screen. I'm considering buying a new HDMI cable if the TV does support these modes but don't want to waste the money on a new cable if it doesn't.

Sony support were no help at all, twice stating that this information was confidential which amused and bemused me.

Would appreciate hearing from anyone that's doing this with there w900/w905.

Thanks
from what i figured out so far, i think only 2 specific file formats support 1080p50 or 1080p60 for our sony w900a over hdmi
*.MP4 can do 1920x1080@60fps
*.m2ts (.mts) also can do 1920x1080@60fps
afaik none of the other file formats can reach 60fpsec for 1920x1080

i suspect for both of those there is a rigid file format spec list to adhere to to make sure it works correctly (eg confirming with video/audio codec etc), and i would only try this for video with the sony hdmi port set to game mode after you have confirmed you can correctly send RGB 4.4.4 test images (various test images available)

i have confirmed on my setup this works for 10 bit video being sent to the display, but not specifically 12 bit. also remember that even if the w900a might be able to accept a 12bit signal being sent to it, it could well downsample it to 10 bit internally before it is sent to the panel for display

why do you want to specifically send 12 bit instead of 10 bit ? the HD 1080p video technical standards allows for a maximum of YUV 4:4:4 format with 10 bit per color, and we have already confirmed our w900a's can also cope with RGB 4:4:4 format @ 10 bit per color (and display this without additional internal processing).

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post #5781 of 5788 Unread 12-05-2016, 06:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ronedition30 View Post
I'm using my w905a with my HTPC and was wondering if the w9 supports 12 bit 1080p signals at frame rates higher than 30?

I can set my nvidia card to output 12 bit RGB at 1080p23, 1080p29 and 1080p30, but when I try 1080p50 or 1080p60 I get a quick green flash followed by a black screen. I'm considering buying a new HDMI cable if the TV does support these modes but don't want to waste the money on a new cable if it doesn't.

Sony support were no help at all, twice stating that this information was confidential which amused and bemused me.

Would appreciate hearing from anyone that's doing this with there w900/w905.

Thanks

The W9 does accept a 60 fps signal and does support 12 bit deep color thank's to it's QD technology.
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post #5782 of 5788 Unread 12-05-2016, 11:33 AM
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Alas I don't have any 12bit-capable media device, so can't tell any experiences. However ...
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Originally Posted by Jorgens View Post
from what i figured out so far, i think only 2 specific file formats support 1080p50 or 1080p60 for our sony w900a over hdmi
*.MP4 can do 1920x1080@60fps
*.m2ts (.mts) also can do 1920x1080@60fps
afaik none of the other file formats can reach 60fpsec for 1920x1080
Rethink it again ... the signal over HDMI is just a raw YUV or RGB data signal. To that extend, it doesn't matter if the signal stems from an MP4 or TS stream, or from a gaming console. At the output side of the HDMI cable, it's all the same.


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Originally Posted by steve1971 View Post
The W9 does accept a 60 fps signal and does support 12 bit deep color thank's to it's QD technology.
The QD technology has nothing to do with that. QD ist the backlight. The question here is what are the limits of the signal processor. Not the backlight.
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post #5783 of 5788 Unread 12-06-2016, 07:08 AM
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Alas I don't have any 12bit-capable media device, so can't tell any experiences. However ...

Rethink it again ... the signal over HDMI is just a raw YUV or RGB data signal. To that extend, it doesn't matter if the signal stems from an MP4 or TS stream, or from a gaming console. At the output side of the HDMI cable, it's all the same.



The QD technology has nothing to do with that. QD ist the backlight. The question here is what are the limits of the signal processor. Not the backlight.

Well what I do know is that the W900A can accept a 60 fps signal and the panel is 10 bit but can also accept a 12 bit signal as well.
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Originally Posted by helvetica bold View Post
going by the predicted RRP prices (for ex 2000$ for the 55') i suspect this will be some sort of base model oled tv,, maybe even using "not the latest" oled panel technology (some other tv brands have done this in recent years)

i also dont see sony bringing out a flagship 65' lcd in september 2016 at 6000$, and then in march 2017 release a 2500$ 65' oled that is "better". this makes me suspect the LG sales campaign of "better backs" and "brighter colors" is swaying the uninformed masses to keep asking sales reps of other brands for their oled models.

i find this recent news from panasonic an interesting development in lcd technology https://hdguru.com/panasonic-reveals...-ips-lcd-tech/

either way, good to see sony hop on the oled wagon, and sony (and other peak brands) keep pushing the lcd technology further.
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Let me just say this. Until Sony confirmes that they are jumping on the OLED bandwagon I refuse to believe it. BUT......If this story is indeed true then yes I will have finally found a replacement for my beloved W900A although if the Z9D was in my price range I would have replaced my W9 with that set as well. But if this Sony OLED thing is indeed true then by all mean's yes it would be my next tv and successor to my W900A. I just hope and pray that it is true because I would love to see just what Sony can do with a tech like OLED. I guess 2017 we will get our answer.
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$2,999 for the 65-inch model as stated in the Forbes article sounds very interesting. It should be interesting how it stacks up to the Z9. John Archer is a well respected AV journalist so this is all looking to be true. Im still keeping the W9 in my family but I want an HDR display for the PS4 Pro and Scoripo later in the year.
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Originally Posted by helvetica bold View Post
$2,999 for the 65-inch model as stated in the Forbes article sounds very interesting. It should be interesting how it stacks up to the Z9. John Archer is a well respected AV journalist so this is all looking to be true. Im still keeping the W9 in my family but I want an HDR display for the PS4 Pro and Scoripo later in the year.
My W9 is staying in the family as well when I make the move to a Sony OLED set. But I am going to wait for reviews ect on the Sony OLED sets before I make the jump because I want to make sure this indeed will be a worthy successor to my W9. But I have to ask and I hope not to sound to stupid helvetica but what the hell is the Scorpio? I know its a game consul but who makes it ect and what will be the difference between it and the PS4 and XBOX One S? Next year I'm picking up a gaming system so I would like to know when you get the chance.
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