Official Sony KDL-55W900A Owners Thread - Page 195 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #5821 of 5845 Old 02-18-2017, 07:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Marc Alexander View Post
Anyone considering the UBP-X800 UHD Blu-ray player? Apparently it has the ability to properly remap HDR and WCG for the W9s and my S990a.
where did you read this ? any tech reviews that confirm the rec2020 WCG remap to rec.709 with xvYCC (eg x.v.Color) ?

from the 4k players i looked at, so far the panasonic's seem to be the best choice because their processor "converts 4k movies from 4:2:0 chroma to 4:4:4 (full RGB) before the signal leaves the player". (this preserves a much higher amount of the color information available in the 4k video standard (note: this does not refer to the color gamut). from what i read about the new oppo 4k player, it also correctly makes this correct important initial conversion step needed for optimizing the 1080p output to older HD displays

additionally in 4k rec2020 the HDR part of the luma video signal video signal is integrated with the chroma aspect (which is not the case for luma with the old 2k rec709), and using the correct conversion method from 4k to 2k, a significant part of the HDR element can be preserved, or as one reviewer explained it better recently (from http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/panas...1701044398.htm )

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Each of these Panasonic 4K Blu-ray players will support 3D Blu-ray playback and 4K streaming though not Dolby Vision. Perhaps the most interesting new features on the Panasonic UB400, UB310 and UB300 are optimised HDR-to-SDR conversion and bright-room HDR presentation. With the former advancement, the Japanese brand aims to extract the extra detail found on Ultra HD Blu-ray discs, and provide a user-adjustable tone-mapping function to display them on an SDR TV with a final picture that surpasses 1080p Blu-rays in brightness and beauty.

Panasonic has also recognised that HDR content is generally unsuitable for watching in high ambient lighting, since the source signal is encoded in absolute luminance as code values, and most HDR TVs would max out their [Backlight] and [Contrast] settings in HDR mode, leaving little headroom for manoeuvre unlike SDR (whose video signal operates in relative luminance) where gamma can be used effectively to brighten the picture by applying a gain adjustment. Some viewers engage [Dynamic Contrast] on their televisions to obtain a luminance boost for watching HDR during daytime, but it’s far from ideal because there’s little to no compensation for the PQ (perceptual quantisation) EOTF (electro-optical transfer function) used in ST.2084 HDR10 standard.

What Panasonic engineers have designed is very clever: they will first convert the input YUV signal to linear RGB before applying gain adjustments, therefore raising the brightness of hard-to-see dark detail for bright-room viewing, yet without degrading the image even when the scene cuts to a brighter one. The company is planning to add these useful features to the already launched UB900 and UB700 via a firmware update in the future.
also remember that panasonic nailed the correct conversion to avoid the dreaded "chroma bug" which degraded early 4k bluray player performances (i think this was the reason oppo's 4k player was delayed last year, and just caught it in time to incorporate it into their player). see http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/dmpub...1612114390.htm


if the new sony 4k player you mention can correctly convert rec2020 WCG from 4k to to rec.709 with xvYCC (eg x.v.Color)for 2k 1080p output, then this would be a huge bonus, BUT their player would also need to incorporate the 2 other points i mentioned above to make it a worth while choice
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post #5822 of 5845 Old 02-18-2017, 08:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Jorgens View Post
any tech reviews that confirm the rec2020 WCG remap to rec.709 with xvYCC (eg x.v.Color) ?
Nothing yet.

I went ahead and pre-ordered the player from Best Buy using some rewards and $25 Visa Checkout promo.
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post #5823 of 5845 Old 02-18-2017, 05:55 PM
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the UBP-X800 UHD Blu-ray player? Apparently it has the ability to properly remap HDR and WCG for the W9s and my S990a.
where do you get this information from ?

there are several major reasons why at this point in time the current model panasonic 4k bluray players are probably the better choice for people with higher end 2k HD displays (both the 3 new inexpensive panasonic models, as well as their initially released 2 premium models afaik)
- they convert 4k YCbCr to 4k RGB before downscaling it to 2k HD output for older 2k HD displays (like our sony w900a's) . this maintains 2x higher chroma information and allows a significant amount of the HDR luma information to be maintained when it is converted to a SDR signal (which is important for both non-HDR 4k displays, as well as for our 2k HD displays)
- they dont have the "chroma bug" error (which most other 4k bluray players released before end 2016 did have, including the samsung models, but not the oppo 4k)

one additional point in favor of the new less expensive panasonic 4k players (the 300 and 400 series models) is their ability to choose a manual setting for 10 bit and 12 bit video output. point being: 10 bit video in YCbCr is on the 4k disk, and many pre-2016 tv models cant cope well with 12 bit video being sent to it over HDMI (not sure about our w900a's either), even if it accepts it in the handshake, and will cause banding and posterization artifacts as a result. much better to send clean 10bit RGB to our w900a displays ( even if internally our w900a's might then still process it in 12 bit software). see

btw, the above points are exactly what i posted speculatively about a few months ago in this thread, to try and send a high quality 4k to 2k converted signal to our w900s's to maximize the video signal allowed under the 2k HD technical standard (10 bit RGB deep color with maintained high chroma and luma values from the original 4k bluray video source by doing the right conversion steps in 4k). panasonic (and potentially oppo, once it fixes its many bugs with firmware updates), is the only bluray 4K manufacturer that has done this right so far.

not sure why you would want to pre-order the new sony 4k player before it is confirmed it can convert UHD rec2020 color space to rec.709 x.v.Color for HD displays. if it does, great ! but if it doesnt, i cant see the point (other then integrated sony remote controls perhaps)
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post #5824 of 5845 Old 02-19-2017, 09:21 AM
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Official Sony KDL-55W900A Owners Thread

Great post Jorgens!
On the flip side, I've been trying to find a solution for my PS4 Pro to remove HDR in games and convert Rec 2020 to something like xvCYY but it doesn't see mpossible. For movies I'm going to keep an eye on the Panny player tho.


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post #5825 of 5845 Old 02-19-2017, 09:43 AM
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Jorgens what's your thoughts on Live color? Do you keep it on? I've been experimenting with it on low for gaming. It really add a nice punch of color. In the 3 years I've owned the W9 I've kept it off.


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post #5826 of 5845 Old 02-19-2017, 11:03 AM
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Originally Posted by helvetica bold View Post
Jorgens what's your thoughts on Live color? Do you keep it on? I've been experimenting with it on low for gaming. It really add a nice punch of color. In the 3 years I've owned the W9 I've kept it off.


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No doubt that was a great post by Jorgen's with alot of info. But I am still going with the new Sony because it's a hell of alot cheaper then the Oppo and the Panasonic. That being said. I use Live Color turned to low for watching Blu's and watching regular tv show's and program's. I know it stands against everything the purist's are against but I think the color's just pop on my W9. I love having it set to low. Any higher and the color's just look to unrealistic. But that's just my opinion.


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post #5827 of 5845 Old 02-20-2017, 06:23 AM
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Originally Posted by helvetica bold View Post
Jorgens what's your thoughts on Live color? Do you keep it on? I've been experimenting with it on low for gaming. It really add a nice punch of color. In the 3 years I've owned the W9 I've kept it off.
hiya Helvetica,

the user "didee" in this forum provided some good information on that setting

this review also gave some good good observations on the use of live color http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/sony-...1305172987.htm

initially, because my software calibration seemed to indicate it was more accurate, i used "live color" off (as was suggested by several tech reviews). iirc it's main problem was causing slight blooming of whites on test images. but over time i started to use live color "low", it adds a bit more pop even if strictly speaking it is a little less accurate. using live color "low" however does affect some of the other settings like color (choosing between 50 or 51 for ex), so i slightly modified some of those (and still tinker with it)

over the last couple of years i have come to appreciate some of the many options for advanced video signal processing ( picture settings ) sony has provided on this tv, some of which when used might be creating a slightly less accurate picture on calibration tests, but result in a more pleasing viewing experience (other users have commented on this similarly). this is particularly true for viewing digital tv broadcasts, rather then bluray or HTPC connections over HDMI where i go as close to good calibration settings as i can get.

the sports mode i use for F1, football, soccer etc i have dialed way out of calibration setting to get the image i prefer, but those settings wouldn't work well for normal viewing.
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post #5828 of 5845 Old 02-20-2017, 06:33 AM
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But I am still going with the new Sony because it's a hell of alot cheaper then the Oppo and the Panasonic.
the 3 new panasonic UHD bluray players i provided a link to above are budget players, and might even be slightly cheaper then the new sony player that is about to be released

since the sony player is newer, sony should be aware of the chroma bug and have not allowed it to slip into their manufacturing process. only in depth reviews of that players will indicate if it uses the right internal conversion steps from the 4k 4.2.0 YCbCr video source on the bluray disk to 4k 4.4.4 RGB before down scaling it to 2k 4.4.4 RGB before sending it via the hdmi video out to the display. time will tell

if the sony player incorporates those 2 steps correctly AND provides x.v.color WCG for rec.709 HD video output, then this would be the player of choice for most of us. until this is confirmed, so far the panasonics (including the cheaper recently released models) seem to be the best choice for us (HD display owners)
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post #5829 of 5845 Old 02-20-2017, 01:28 PM
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Jorgens! Yes, Ive read that HDTV.UK review several times over the years, lol. That's why Ive kept Live Color off until now. All the serious AV sites recommend keeping it off with proper calibration. Just recently I've kept Live Color on low for gaming only. On low it really adds an nice punch of color (red is seriously red)! Ive always had a feeling we haven't seen what this awesome display can really do with WCG. The closest we get is the MI4K disks from Sony. Spider Man is a good example. Im keeping an eye on the Oppo 203, within the next 2 years Im either buying the A1E or the 2nd gen Z9. Ive seen several movies in the Dolby Cinema and its absolutely worth having Dolby Vision for future proofing.
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So few months ago, my w900a shut off while gaming and started giving me 4 red blinks. I've replaced the LED board and T-Conn Board and still the same issue. Planning on ordering the power board next. Has anyone had a similar issue?
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So few months ago, my w900a shut off while gaming and started giving me 4 red blinks. I've replaced the LED board and T-Conn Board and still the same issue. Planning on ordering the power board next. Has anyone had a similar issue?


After almost 3 years of ownership I havent had a single issue with my W9 except for a few stuck pixels which got fixed. Otherwise it's been smooth sailing thank god. So you have replaced the LED Board and T-Conn Board and your still having issues? I take it your W9 isnt covered by a warranty because I was gonna tell you to call Sony and see if they can help. But if you replace the power board and it still has issues you might think of moving on to a new tv and find one thats comparable to the W9 and the only two that I would look at is the Sony Z9 or LG's OLED tv's. I hope everything works out for you.
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Hell everyone, it's been a while since I've posted anything on the forum so I'll just give a little update to what's been going on.

My W900A is still rocking my world, and only the Z9 has come close to being a replacement for this awesome set. I ordered the x800 as well and have a store pickup scheduled for this Saturday, it's to replace my old S5100 player that is getting moved to the bedroom to also replace a even older sony dvd player. I'm currently on the fence about upgrading my Theater receiver, but I think I'll wait till closer to the end of the year to see what Yamaha has in store for the A3070.
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Hell everyone, it's been a while since I've posted anything on the forum so I'll just give a little update to what's been going on.

My W900A is still rocking my world, and only the Z9 has come close to being a replacement for this awesome set. I ordered the x800 as well and have a store pickup scheduled for this Saturday, it's to replace my old S5100 player that is getting moved to the bedroom to also replace a even older sony dvd player. I'm currently on the fence about upgrading my Theater receiver, but I think I'll wait till closer to the end of the year to see what Yamaha has in store for the A3070.
Hey Captin! Let me know how the x800 works with your W9. I'm interested in picking one up for my W9.

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Hi everyone.
I'm curious about those of you who are using Live Color on low. Are you guys leaving the color saturation at 50 or turning it down a few?

I've experimented with Live Color on Low and Color Saturation set around 43-45 in Game mode since Reds seems so overpowering at 50. I'm wondering what others think about this.
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post #5835 of 5845 Old 02-23-2017, 01:34 PM
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Syxx14, I have Live Color on Low (only for gaming) w/ color set to 50. Yes, reds are really red but i don't mind it for gaming. Play Infamous Second Son or First Light, the colors look incredible!
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post #5836 of 5845 Old 02-25-2017, 07:38 PM
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So few months ago, my w900a shut off while gaming and started giving me 4 red blinks. I've replaced the LED board and T-Conn Board and still the same issue. Planning on ordering the power board next. Has anyone had a similar issue?
tough one
if it was out of warranty i would probably try the same steps as you are currently doing, replace whatever boards/components that are the most likely cause (as long as they are not to expensive to buy). the red blinking are usually referred to as a fatal error, but worth trying to fix i think if you can get access to some parts. many months ago on ebay i saw a complete 900a for sale with a cracked display panel, being sold for parts (cant remember the price), maybe worth doing an occasional search for.
i am sure you have searched for other sony tv models creating the same error msg, maybe other sony users have some useful information
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post #5837 of 5845 Old 02-25-2017, 08:09 PM
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Hi everyone.
I'm curious about those of you who are using Live Color on low. Are you guys leaving the color saturation at 50 or turning it down a few?

I've experimented with Live Color on Low and Color Saturation set around 43-45 in Game mode since Reds seems so overpowering at 50. I'm wondering what others think about this.
when using live color on low for normal digital tv broadcast viewing, i still have color set to 50 (indicated to be right with several software calibration test images), but in the white ballance settings area i have dialed down the red gain (-3) and have green bias@ +1 and blue bias @ -1

i regretfully dont have a light sensor to calibrate white balance objectively, but did many searches on best results for our 900a's from reviewers or users who had used hardware calibration. one main finding was that most dialed down red gain (see my forum avatar image for a (red green blue) spectral distribution of our panel).

note: one poster in this thread (many months ago ) made the comment that for our w900a's there are 2 different panels that were used (i think depending on geographic location of release, eg usa, asia, or europe for ex), and that one of the models had a strong red bias (even without live color on), and the other had a slightly different bias (cant remember what exactly). for the panel i have, even without live color on there is a slight red bias on test images, and with live color on low it becomes stronger. if i dont dial red gain down with live color low, faces on tv broadcast video become noticeably to red/orange, and whites are not white anymore.

with the gain/bias adjustments i made the end result is more balanced and live color on low gives a bit stronger color tones for normal viewing which i like at the moment, but i suspect on hardware calibration the image is less correct/right.

can anybody remember what those 2 different panel types were ?

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post #5838 of 5845 Old 02-25-2017, 10:27 PM
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Jorgens, I don't remember anyone saying there are two panels, all I know is, it's a VA panel. There might have been some W9s manufacturerd in Japan and some in Mexico perhaps? Mine was built in Mexico.
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post #5839 of 5845 Old Yesterday, 12:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jorgens View Post
where did you read this ? any tech reviews that confirm the rec2020 WCG remap to rec.709 with xvYCC (eg x.v.Color) ?
[/URL]


if the new sony 4k player you mention can correctly convert rec2020 WCG from 4k to to rec.709 with xvYCC (eg x.v.Color)for 2k 1080p output, then this would be a huge bonus
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Nothing yet.

I went ahead and pre-ordered the player from Best Buy using some rewards and $25 Visa Checkout promo.
I've had the player since Friday and I am both impressed and unimpressed.

First the bad news. It does not seem to remap bt.2020 to bt.709 xvYCC. I'm hoping this is something they address since they championed this. I am going to see how the player reacts with a Mastered in 4k Blu-ray. There is a simple HDR to SDR conversion with a real-time DR effect setting, range 1-5 (default 3). Decent, but not groundbreaking.

I did notice some washed out skin tones at a max setting of 5. At a distance of 4 feet I notice a slightly sharper picture with the UHD disc vs 1080p version played via BDP-790 for easy A/B comparisons. No difference from a normal viewing distance.

The good news is that this player as solidly built, back to the days of the ES SACD players. Heavy metal chassis surrounded by plastic. The player is lightning fast, loading UHD discs faster than I've seen any player load standard Blu-rays! It plays seemingly every format via USB or DLNA (I'm still testing).

After a bit more testing I will just move the player to my OLED and keep the S790 on my 1080p S990a.
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post #5840 of 5845 Old Yesterday, 07:20 PM
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Jorgens, I don't remember anyone saying there are two panels, all I know is, it's a VA panel. There might have been some W9s manufacturerd in Japan and some in Mexico perhaps? Mine was built in Mexico.
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Jorgens, I don't remember anyone saying there are two panels, all I know is, it's a VA panel. There might have been some W9s manufacturerd in Japan and some in Mexico perhaps? Mine was built in Mexico.
i think the panel is s-pva, and for most w900a these panels are made by samsung (the quantum dot tecchnology is for the backlight, in our case the edge lit strips providing the backlighting). mine was built in Malaysia (SE asian market and oceania). not sure where the european models are manufactured, but it wouldnt be mexico or malaysia. iirc for the japanese market they might even still be manufactured in japan. so there are at least 3, maybe even 4 manufacturing locations for this one same tv model from sony.

but iirc didee posted in this thread many months ago he thought there were 2 different manufacturers for the VA panel used in the w900a's (i dont think he specified if this was for different geographic area's, or different batches of production). it is not unusual for ex for pc monitor manufacturers to source panels from different manufacturers during a production cycle, and for some manufacturers this used to happen so frequently that geeky buyers used to refer to it as a panel lottery, and would send purchased monitors back for an exchange if it didnt have the panel they were after (which might have been highly rated on a review, and had enticed them to purchase that model).

with the w900a being a premium product at release time, sony would not have deliberately tried to switch the panel used in manufacturing (they would undermine their reputation and be accused of "bait and switch" sales tactics). but if they were short on sourcing the normally used samsung s-pva panels at some point during the production life of this tv (mine was manufactured in march or april 2014 in malasia for ex), it is not inconceivable they might have used lcd panels from a different manufacturer for certain batches. if they did, then the different manufacturers panels would have slightly different calibration characteristics (but not enough of a problem to affect the quantum dot features/specifications)

by going into the service mode there is an onscreen code which shows the panel manufacturer and type. when didee made this post at the time, i went into the service mode and checked my manufacturer (which was samsung s-pva iirc).
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post #5841 of 5845 Old Yesterday, 07:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Marc Alexander View Post
There is a simple HDR to SDR conversion with a real-time DR effect setting, range 1-5 (default 3). Decent, but not groundbreaking.
I did notice some washed out skin tones at a max setting of 5. At a distance of 4 feet I notice a slightly sharper picture with the UHD disc vs 1080p version played via BDP-790 for easy A/B comparisons. No difference from a normal viewing distance.
what HDMI video output mode choices do you have on this 4k player ? look to see if it can output RGB mode for 1080p (the default would most likely be 4.2.0 or 4.2.2 YCbCr). also check if you can set the video output to 8, 10, or 12 bit.

if you can send out RGB @ 1080p 10 bit, set the w900a to game mode (which allows 1080p RGB 4.4.4 @ 10 bit to be input and be displayed without converting it), that would be your best video quality. try and avoid using the YCbCr format if possible.
you might also need to check that the hdmi input and output port settings of the 2 hardware devices you have connected (player and display) are correctly set to full and not limited (on the w900a = display/video-input-settings/dynamic-range/----> "your connected hdmi port" = "full")

note: but we still dont know if this player has the chroma bug (most likely it doesnt, since it wasfirst identified in tech reports in september 2016)
note 2: and we also dont know if this new sony player correctly converts 4k 4.2.0 YCbCr @ 10 bit( the format used on the 4k video file on the disk) to 4k 4.4.4 RGB @ 10 bit, before down-converting it internally to 1080p RGB 4.4.4 @ 10 bit to be sent to an external display (which is what would give us the best quality from a 4k player connected to a high end 1080p display)

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Jorgens, how does one access the service mode? Can I do this safely without messing anything up. I am curious what panel I have. I must have one of the first W9s since I bought in May, 2013. Also you might be interested in watching this Sony UBP-X800 unboxing video–they show off some display settings.
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post #5843 of 5845 Old Yesterday, 08:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Jorgens View Post
what HDMI video output mode choices do you have on this 4k player ?
Strangely there are not choices for 10, 12, or 16-bit Deep Color like in past Sony BDPs (I have the S790, S6200, and S5500). Just Deep Color Auto or OFF. I kept it set to AUTO.

HDMI OUTPUT:
AUTO
YCbCr 4:2:2 (10-bit)
YCbCr 4:4:4 (12-bit)
RGB (12-bit)

I will have to test with deep color off to see if it allows for RGB 10-bit. I'm not at home today sobI will have to test tomorrow.
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post #5844 of 5845 Old Yesterday, 09:48 PM
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Strangely there are not choices for 10, 12, or 16-bit Deep Color like in past Sony BDPs (I have the S790, S6200, and S5500). Just Deep Color Auto or OFF. I kept it set to AUTO.

HDMI OUTPUT:
AUTO
YCbCr 4:2:2 (10-bit)
YCbCr 4:4:4 (12-bit)
RGB (12-bit)

I will have to test with deep color off to see if it allows for RGB 10-bit. I'm not at home today sobI will have to test tomorrow.
what i would try is,
- set the HDMI output of the 4k player to RGB 12 bit, (RGB is by definition iirc always in 4.4.4 format)
- and set deep color to ON (deep color is just the higher then 8 bit "bit rate", i think it is a term used for both 10 and 12 and 16 bit rate etc

+ make sure the w900a is setup correctly in game mode, and with HDMI to full (the last bit is prob the better setting, but either might work, depending if it is a user adjustable setting on the player)

i suspect you will notice a significant difference, compared to your initial default setup

note: but for "best" the 2 or 3 different conversion steps i mentioned in earlier posts must all be implemented together
note 2: i suspect this sony player does at least 1 of those 3 steps correctly (once you use the right settings mentioned above), maybe even 2 or 3 (but sadly no xv.color, that would have been the cherry on the top)

ps: my reason for suggesting 10 bit RGB output instead of 12 bit is because
- iirc 10 bit is the max allowed under the 1080p video spec, so sending it 12 bit could force some additional conversion step in the chain that further degrades the video signal
note: i am 99% sure our w900a panel is 10 bit (which is remarkable high quality in the era when most were 6 or 8 bit).. the 12 bit reference is most likely 10 bit hardware + 2 extra bit software dithering (nice to have, but it doesnt make the panel 12 bit)
note 2: even if our w900a's keep reporting "12 bit" when it is send certain video signals, it doesnt mean it can accept (and display) 12 bit "unprocessed". eg when it receives it as 10 bit RGB 4.4.4 1080p I (and others) have confirmed with test images it will display this correctly and unprocessed. i havnt seen anybody confirm this for 12 bit,. since however 12 bit is your only RGB output setting available, use it and see if the tv accepts it (but as explained, even if the tv accepts and and reports "12 bit" it doesnt mean it hasnt added an otherwise unnecessary processing step, compared to sending it 10 bit RGB 4.4.4, but this is a minor issue)

disclaimer: i am still looking into the hdmi spec issue for 1080p, and issues with the 1080p video signal spec and the port and cable specs for hdmi, i am just summarizing for you how i would try it from what i figured out so far.
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post #5845 of 5845 Old Today, 01:49 AM
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Originally Posted by helvetica bold View Post
Jorgens, how does one access the service mode? Can I do this safely without messing anything up. I am curious what panel I have. I must have one of the first W9s since I bought in May, 2013.
hiya helvetica,

to enter the service menu of the 55w900a or 55W905a
with the tv powered off use the remote and in rapid sequence press <DISPLAY> <5> <Volume +> <POWER>)
and you should have a service menu information "box" displayed when the tv starts up

Note for the remote i i have (SE Asia) i use the “I+ (information)” button instead of the “display” button for usa model remotes (there is a slight difference in the remotes buttons and layout for those different regions)

you can check the panel type, look at the bottom of the info list for "PNL:.........................."
Samsung Panel = DQ3Y550LN0101 SLCD S-PVA (200Hz/240Hz)
but some sets will have YLV5521-02N AUO A-MVA (200Hz/240Hz) instead.

press the "home" remote control setting to exit the service menu
note: obviously be careful when entering the service mode, and dont mess around with any of the settings (but the above procedure is pretty safe and easy, just dont play with the remote buttons to much while in service mode, or do so at own risk )
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