Official Sony KDL-55W900A Owners Thread - Page 195 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 359Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #5821 of 5829 Old 02-18-2017, 07:51 AM
Member
 
Jorgens's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 166
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 42 Post(s)
Liked: 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Alexander View Post
Anyone considering the UBP-X800 UHD Blu-ray player? Apparently it has the ability to properly remap HDR and WCG for the W9s and my S990a.
where did you read this ? any tech reviews that confirm the rec2020 WCG remap to rec.709 with xvYCC (eg x.v.Color) ?

from the 4k players i looked at, so far the panasonic's seem to be the best choice because their processor "converts 4k movies from 4:2:0 chroma to 4:4:4 (full RGB) before the signal leaves the player". (this preserves a much higher amount of the color information available in the 4k video standard (note: this does not refer to the color gamut). from what i read about the new oppo 4k player, it also correctly makes this correct important initial conversion step needed for optimizing the 1080p output to older HD displays

additionally in 4k rec2020 the HDR part of the luma video signal video signal is integrated with the chroma aspect (which is not the case for luma with the old 2k rec709), and using the correct conversion method from 4k to 2k, a significant part of the HDR element can be preserved, or as one reviewer explained it better recently (from http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/panas...1701044398.htm )

Quote:
Each of these Panasonic 4K Blu-ray players will support 3D Blu-ray playback and 4K streaming though not Dolby Vision. Perhaps the most interesting new features on the Panasonic UB400, UB310 and UB300 are optimised HDR-to-SDR conversion and bright-room HDR presentation. With the former advancement, the Japanese brand aims to extract the extra detail found on Ultra HD Blu-ray discs, and provide a user-adjustable tone-mapping function to display them on an SDR TV with a final picture that surpasses 1080p Blu-rays in brightness and beauty.

Panasonic has also recognised that HDR content is generally unsuitable for watching in high ambient lighting, since the source signal is encoded in absolute luminance as code values, and most HDR TVs would max out their [Backlight] and [Contrast] settings in HDR mode, leaving little headroom for manoeuvre unlike SDR (whose video signal operates in relative luminance) where gamma can be used effectively to brighten the picture by applying a gain adjustment. Some viewers engage [Dynamic Contrast] on their televisions to obtain a luminance boost for watching HDR during daytime, but it’s far from ideal because there’s little to no compensation for the PQ (perceptual quantisation) EOTF (electro-optical transfer function) used in ST.2084 HDR10 standard.

What Panasonic engineers have designed is very clever: they will first convert the input YUV signal to linear RGB before applying gain adjustments, therefore raising the brightness of hard-to-see dark detail for bright-room viewing, yet without degrading the image even when the scene cuts to a brighter one. The company is planning to add these useful features to the already launched UB900 and UB700 via a firmware update in the future.
also remember that panasonic nailed the correct conversion to avoid the dreaded "chroma bug" which degraded early 4k bluray player performances (i think this was the reason oppo's 4k player was delayed last year, and just caught it in time to incorporate it into their player). see http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/dmpub...1612114390.htm


if the new sony 4k player you mention can correctly convert rec2020 WCG from 4k to to rec.709 with xvYCC (eg x.v.Color)for 2k 1080p output, then this would be a huge bonus, BUT their player would also need to incorporate the 2 other points i mentioned above to make it a worth while choice
Jorgens is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #5822 of 5829 Old 02-18-2017, 08:12 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Marc Alexander's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Orange County, CA
Posts: 7,193
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 850 Post(s)
Liked: 489
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jorgens View Post
any tech reviews that confirm the rec2020 WCG remap to rec.709 with xvYCC (eg x.v.Color) ?
Nothing yet.

I went ahead and pre-ordered the player from Best Buy using some rewards and $25 Visa Checkout promo.
Marc Alexander is offline  
post #5823 of 5829 Old 02-18-2017, 05:55 PM
Member
 
Jorgens's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 166
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 42 Post(s)
Liked: 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Alexander View Post
the UBP-X800 UHD Blu-ray player? Apparently it has the ability to properly remap HDR and WCG for the W9s and my S990a.
where do you get this information from ?

there are several major reasons why at this point in time the current model panasonic 4k bluray players are probably the better choice for people with higher end 2k HD displays (both the 3 new inexpensive panasonic models, as well as their initially released 2 premium models afaik)
- they convert 4k YCbCr to 4k RGB before downscaling it to 2k HD output for older 2k HD displays (like our sony w900a's) . this maintains 2x higher chroma information and allows a significant amount of the HDR luma information to be maintained when it is converted to a SDR signal (which is important for both non-HDR 4k displays, as well as for our 2k HD displays)
- they dont have the "chroma bug" error (which most other 4k bluray players released before end 2016 did have, including the samsung models, but not the oppo 4k)

one additional point in favor of the new less expensive panasonic 4k players (the 300 and 400 series models) is their ability to choose a manual setting for 10 bit and 12 bit video output. point being: 10 bit video in YCbCr is on the 4k disk, and many pre-2016 tv models cant cope well with 12 bit video being sent to it over HDMI (not sure about our w900a's either), even if it accepts it in the handshake, and will cause banding and posterization artifacts as a result. much better to send clean 10bit RGB to our w900a displays ( even if internally our w900a's might then still process it in 12 bit software). see

btw, the above points are exactly what i posted speculatively about a few months ago in this thread, to try and send a high quality 4k to 2k converted signal to our w900s's to maximize the video signal allowed under the 2k HD technical standard (10 bit RGB deep color with maintained high chroma and luma values from the original 4k bluray video source by doing the right conversion steps in 4k). panasonic (and potentially oppo, once it fixes its many bugs with firmware updates), is the only bluray 4K manufacturer that has done this right so far.

not sure why you would want to pre-order the new sony 4k player before it is confirmed it can convert UHD rec2020 color space to rec.709 x.v.Color for HD displays. if it does, great ! but if it doesnt, i cant see the point (other then integrated sony remote controls perhaps)
helvetica bold and steve1971 like this.

Last edited by Jorgens; 02-18-2017 at 07:27 PM.
Jorgens is offline  
 
post #5824 of 5829 Old Yesterday, 09:21 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
helvetica bold's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: NYC
Posts: 1,026
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 392 Post(s)
Liked: 243
Official Sony KDL-55W900A Owners Thread

Great post Jorgens!
On the flip side, I've been trying to find a solution for my PS4 Pro to remove HDR in games and convert Rec 2020 to something like xvCYY but it doesn't see mpossible. For movies I'm going to keep an eye on the Panny player tho.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
helvetica bold is online now  
post #5825 of 5829 Old Yesterday, 09:43 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
helvetica bold's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: NYC
Posts: 1,026
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 392 Post(s)
Liked: 243
Jorgens what's your thoughts on Live color? Do you keep it on? I've been experimenting with it on low for gaming. It really add a nice punch of color. In the 3 years I've owned the W9 I've kept it off.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
steve1971 likes this.
helvetica bold is online now  
post #5826 of 5829 Old Yesterday, 11:03 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
steve1971's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Saint Paul, Minnesota.
Posts: 2,792
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 499 Post(s)
Liked: 435
Quote:
Originally Posted by helvetica bold View Post
Jorgens what's your thoughts on Live color? Do you keep it on? I've been experimenting with it on low for gaming. It really add a nice punch of color. In the 3 years I've owned the W9 I've kept it off.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

No doubt that was a great post by Jorgen's with alot of info. But I am still going with the new Sony because it's a hell of alot cheaper then the Oppo and the Panasonic. That being said. I use Live Color turned to low for watching Blu's and watching regular tv show's and program's. I know it stands against everything the purist's are against but I think the color's just pop on my W9. I love having it set to low. Any higher and the color's just look to unrealistic. But that's just my opinion.


helvetica bold likes this.
steve1971 is offline  
post #5827 of 5829 Old Today, 06:23 AM
Member
 
Jorgens's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 166
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 42 Post(s)
Liked: 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by helvetica bold View Post
Jorgens what's your thoughts on Live color? Do you keep it on? I've been experimenting with it on low for gaming. It really add a nice punch of color. In the 3 years I've owned the W9 I've kept it off.
hiya Helvetica,

the user "didee" in this forum provided some good information on that setting

this review also gave some good good observations on the use of live color http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/sony-...1305172987.htm

initially, because my software calibration seemed to indicate it was more accurate, i used "live color" off (as was suggested by several tech reviews). iirc it's main problem was causing slight blooming of whites on test images. but over time i started to use live color "low", it adds a bit more pop even if strictly speaking it is a little less accurate. using live color "low" however does affect some of the other settings like color (choosing between 50 or 51 for ex), so i slightly modified some of those (and still tinker with it)

over the last couple of years i have come to appreciate some of the many options for advanced video signal processing ( picture settings ) sony has provided on this tv, some of which when used might be creating a slightly less accurate picture on calibration tests, but result in a more pleasing viewing experience (other users have commented on this similarly). this is particularly true for viewing digital tv broadcasts, rather then bluray or HTPC connections over HDMI where i go as close to good calibration settings as i can get.

the sports mode i use for F1, football, soccer etc i have dialed way out of calibration setting to get the image i prefer, but those settings wouldn't work well for normal viewing.
helvetica bold and steve1971 like this.
Jorgens is offline  
post #5828 of 5829 Old Today, 06:33 AM
Member
 
Jorgens's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 166
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 42 Post(s)
Liked: 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by steve1971 View Post
But I am still going with the new Sony because it's a hell of alot cheaper then the Oppo and the Panasonic.
the 3 new panasonic UHD bluray players i provided a link to above are budget players, and might even be slightly cheaper then the new sony player that is about to be released

since the sony player is newer, sony should be aware of the chroma bug and have not allowed it to slip into their manufacturing process. only in depth reviews of that players will indicate if it uses the right internal conversion steps from the 4k 4.2.0 YCbCr video source on the bluray disk to 4k 4.4.4 RGB before down scaling it to 2k 4.4.4 RGB before sending it via the hdmi video out to the display. time will tell

if the sony player incorporates those 2 steps correctly AND provides x.v.color WCG for rec.709 HD video output, then this would be the player of choice for most of us. until this is confirmed, so far the panasonics (including the cheaper recently released models) seem to be the best choice for us (HD display owners)
steve1971 likes this.
Jorgens is offline  
post #5829 of 5829 Old Today, 01:28 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
helvetica bold's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: NYC
Posts: 1,026
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 392 Post(s)
Liked: 243
Jorgens! Yes, Ive read that HDTV.UK review several times over the years, lol. That's why Ive kept Live Color off until now. All the serious AV sites recommend keeping it off with proper calibration. Just recently I've kept Live Color on low for gaming only. On low it really adds an nice punch of color (red is seriously red)! Ive always had a feeling we haven't seen what this awesome display can really do with WCG. The closest we get is the MI4K disks from Sony. Spider Man is a good example. Im keeping an eye on the Oppo 203, within the next 2 years Im either buying the A1E or the 2nd gen Z9. Ive seen several movies in the Dolby Cinema and its absolutely worth having Dolby Vision for future proofing.
helvetica bold is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply LCD Flat Panel Displays

Tags
Sony , Sony Bravia 55 Inch Led Tv 3d Support Bravia Hx850 Kdl 55hx850 , Sony Xbr 55hx950 Bravia Led Hdtv , Sony Kdl 55w900a 55 Inch Led Hdtv
Gear in this thread

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off