Official Sony KDL-55W900A Owners Thread - Page 196 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #5851 of 5874 Old 03-05-2017, 02:26 AM
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The light can be as blue as anything, I'm sleeping like a baby. Or like a stone. Only thing getting me wake is the cat (a tomcat) squeaking "maauuuu -- I want something".
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post #5852 of 5874 Old 03-09-2017, 02:01 PM
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What would be the most appropriate color space choice for the nVidia Shield TV device? The choices are: RGB, 8-bit, REC. 709 or YCbCr, 4:4:4, 8-bit, Rec. 709 or YCbCr, 4:2:2, 12-bit, Rec. 709

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post #5853 of 5874 Old 03-09-2017, 10:29 PM
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Originally Posted by JustinGGX View Post
What would be the most appropriate color space choice for the nVidia Shield TV device? The choices are: RGB, 8-bit, REC. 709 or YCbCr, 4:4:4, 8-bit, Rec. 709 or YCbCr, 4:2:2, 12-bit, Rec. 709

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RGB and YCbCr 4:4:4 are very similar with slightly different color accuracy. I have mine set at RGB, it could have been the default.
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post #5854 of 5874 Old 03-10-2017, 10:49 AM
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RGB and YCbCr 4:4:4 are very similar with slightly different color accuracy. I have mine set at RGB, it could have been the default.
RGB was set as default for me, yes. Just wasn't sure if that was the best setting for our 55W900A sets. Sounds like it so thanks

Also, should I set the RGB to "full" in this case too?

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post #5855 of 5874 Old 03-10-2017, 12:15 PM
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RGB was set as default for me, yes. Just wasn't sure if that was the best setting for our 55W900A sets. Sounds like it so thanks

Also, should I set the RGB to "full" in this case too?

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Yes, set that to Full (for whiter than white and blacker than black) and make sure the input is set to auto or full (Picture & Display - Pro Picture Setup - Dynamic Range)

I'm trying YCbCr 4:4:4 right now on the shield.
The best setting would be what the content is, like most consoles usually have a setting for. That way there would be no conversation.
We need something like this image for our TVs:

It's interesting that YCbCr doesn't use the entire range of values for 8-bit to send and the extra values can be used in xvColor / xvYCC.

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post #5856 of 5874 Old 03-14-2017, 11:24 AM
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I'm trying YCbCr 4:4:4 right now on the shield.
The best setting would be what the content is, like most consoles usually have a setting for.
Wouldn't games be in RGB while video content such as Netflix be in YCbCr?

If that is the case, doesn't that mean I need to switch my color space choice everytime I switch between content?

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post #5857 of 5874 Old 03-14-2017, 08:32 PM
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Wouldn't games be in RGB while video content such as Netflix be in YCbCr?

If that is the case, doesn't that mean I need to switch my color space choice everytime I switch between content?

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The short of it is: I wouldn't unless you can actually see differences in the color accuracy.

Full outputs RGB 0-255 from the shield (like a PC). The TV set to full will convert the values to the display (like a monitor). The possible benifit​ is more values for colors.
Limited outputs RGB 16-235 from the shield (like analog video). The TV set to limited will convert the values to the display (like an analog TV).

Graphics cards are built to deal with the complete byte (8-bits) per color channel plus alphas (32-bits per pixel) and modern cards have even more bits for the 4 channels. Video will most likely come over the network with YCbCr used with the codec, and will be combined with the RGB menu navigation or game graphics to an RGB color space. Once the pixel has rendered, the alpha channel is no longer needed in the output signal, leaving just (the specific) RGB color spaced video (most likely sRGB, but is app/context dependant). This video is then converted to the HDMI output, matching your card's settings (like YCbCr 4:4:4 8-bit Rec.709).
The TV then accepts the video signal and converts it based on the TV settings. I'm willing to guess that our TVs are quite good at YCbCr since they can handle x.v.Color processing (but in order to know for sure, one has to test every setting combo).

If you want to test, give this a read:
http://spearsandmunsil.com/portfolio...color-space-2/
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post #5858 of 5874 Old 03-15-2017, 01:12 PM
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Just checking in because I havent been on the forum's as of late. My W9 is still rocking the PQ and will get only better hopefully when I pair it with Sony's new 4K Blu ray player. From what a Sony rep told me their new player will benefit my W9 not 4K wise but in other area's so we shall see this coming June when my wife pick's it up for me for my birthday. Watching Planet Earth II on my W9 is just mind blowing and I cant wait until it hit's Blu ray.
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post #5859 of 5874 Old 03-15-2017, 11:04 PM
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If the content is video data, the full-RGB model will cause banding. The 220 values of 16-235 are digitally spread to 255 values of 0-255, hence there will be 35 "holes" in the spectrum. The correct way is to use YCbCr or limited-RGB.
If the content is real RGB data (like games), using limited-RGB will lose some subtleties, because the original 255 values are squeezed down to 220 values.

Ideally, video content should be put out as YCbCr, and everything else as full-RGB. I don't know what options the Shield does offer, but e.g. the PS4 has the ability to use different modes for either video-playback, or gaming and all else.
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post #5860 of 5874 Old 03-16-2017, 01:11 AM
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Originally Posted by steve1971 View Post
Just checking in because I havent been on the forum's as of late. My W9 is still rocking the PQ and will get only better hopefully when I pair it with Sony's new 4K Blu ray player. From what a Sony rep told me their new player will benefit my W9 not 4K wise but in other area's so we shall see this coming June when my wife pick's it up for me for my birthday. Watching Planet Earth II on my W9 is just mind blowing and I cant wait until it hit's Blu ray.
To be honest, on my 65S990a I could tell no appreciable difference between the UBP-X800 playing the 2160p disc and the BDP-S790 playing the 1080p. I did like the fact that the HDR effect was adjustable on the fly but the effect itself was rudimentary at best. Kind of like dynamic contrast built-in to the display. The mastered in 4k 1080p discs with x.v.color look better than the downcoverted UHD discs to me.

I moved the UBP-X800 upstairs to my OLED65E6P where I find it noticeably superior to the Xbox One S. It's been confirmed that the XB1S only outputs RGB for 2160p24 and YCbCr 4:2:0 for 2160p60. Just FYI
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post #5861 of 5874 Old 03-16-2017, 09:10 AM
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@steve1971

Your going to enjoy the Sony x800 on your W9 because the x800 gives you some added control over the video image. When your watching standard DVD's and you hit the options button you have a choice called "Video Options" in here you have 5 choices. Auto (default) Theater Dark, Bright Room, and Custom 1 & 2.

Bright Room - works the same as setting the back light to full
Theater Dark - drops the brightness and contrast so the image is not so intense when viewing in a blacked out room.
Custom - Allows control over the contrast, brightness, color, and 3 other options that I haven't messed with yet.

The custom is cool, because you can create a greater depth to the video image, kind of like a false HDR look. Example, I loaded up Peter Jackson's King Kong (DVD) and from the "Video Settings" Custom-1, I set the contrast to 1 (default is 0) and the brightness to -1, color left at 0, and it creates better separation between the dark and bright without crushing or clipping creating that extra depth. (The upscale to 1080p was very close to Blu-ray quality).

On custom-2, I set the brightness to -2 and the contrast to 1, but I think for DVD material this might be crushing blacks a little, but on "Hacksaw Ridge" Blu-ray i thought the image looked great with greater detail in the darker areas. For the Mastered in 4K disk like Spiderman 2 and UHD 4k John Wick I set custom-2 to -1 brightness, 2 contrast for a HDR look.

I think the Sony x800 equals the OPPO 203, and Panny UP900 as for 4K player quality, and better image quality than the Samsung K8500. Only issue I have with the x800 is the inability to produce and send BT2020 to the TV when converting HDR to SDR. Something the Panny can do with the HDfury linker.

From what I read in other forums the guys over at HDfury haven't received the x800 yet to work on a solution to get BT2020 out of the Sony. So we'll have to wait and see if that's possible. If so then the Sony x800 leaps ahead of the panny.
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post #5862 of 5874 Old 03-22-2017, 10:55 AM
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Originally Posted by CaptinCrunch View Post
@steve1971

Your going to enjoy the Sony x800 on your W9 because the x800 gives you some added control over the video image. When your watching standard DVD's and you hit the options button you have a choice called "Video Options" in here you have 5 choices. Auto (default) Theater Dark, Bright Room, and Custom 1 & 2.

Bright Room - works the same as setting the back light to full
Theater Dark - drops the brightness and contrast so the image is not so intense when viewing in a blacked out room.
Custom - Allows control over the contrast, brightness, color, and 3 other options that I haven't messed with yet.

The custom is cool, because you can create a greater depth to the video image, kind of like a false HDR look. Example, I loaded up Peter Jackson's King Kong (DVD) and from the "Video Settings" Custom-1, I set the contrast to 1 (default is 0) and the brightness to -1, color left at 0, and it creates better separation between the dark and bright without crushing or clipping creating that extra depth. (The upscale to 1080p was very close to Blu-ray quality).

On custom-2, I set the brightness to -2 and the contrast to 1, but I think for DVD material this might be crushing blacks a little, but on "Hacksaw Ridge" Blu-ray i thought the image looked great with greater detail in the darker areas. For the Mastered in 4K disk like Spiderman 2 and UHD 4k John Wick I set custom-2 to -1 brightness, 2 contrast for a HDR look.

I think the Sony x800 equals the OPPO 203, and Panny UP900 as for 4K player quality, and better image quality than the Samsung K8500. Only issue I have with the x800 is the inability to produce and send BT2020 to the TV when converting HDR to SDR. Something the Panny can do with the HDfury linker.

From what I read in other forums the guys over at HDfury haven't received the x800 yet to work on a solution to get BT2020 out of the Sony. So we'll have to wait and see if that's possible. If so then the Sony x800 leaps ahead of the panny.

Thank's Captain for the response to my post. The wife is gonna pick it up for me for my birthday in June so it can go with my W900A. I have to wait awhile I know but I think the wait will be worth it. I know the OPPO and Panny players are great from the many review's I have read but I am a Sony guy so I'll stick with them and the x800 come June will be mine.
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post #5863 of 5874 Old 03-22-2017, 12:11 PM
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^^^

The Panny has great reviews, but it's out of my price range. I took my x800 over to a buddy of mine who has the OPPO 203 so we could drink beer and talk shop...lol, He has the Sony 65" 850D and after a 12 pack and back and forth between the 2 players using 4K The Martian, John Wick, and Hacksaw Ridge, The image quality was pretty equal, though his OPPO had issues with The Martian (audio sync) the x800 played it smooth. Load times were equal, HDR was pretty close to each other, but John Wick i thought looked slightly better on the OPPO.

I still haven't watched anything in 3D yet on it, but I will this weekend, I picked up the 4K set for "Passangers" the other day and it has the 4K 3D disk included. (would like to see this movie with HDR) I'm still not ready to jump past my W9 just to watch 4K HDR movies. I'll hold out till Dolby Vision takes hold and maybe, just maybe OLED will have come down in price. Till then I think my next upgrade with be a new receiver with (Dolby Atmos & DTS-X), I'm waiting on the Yamaha Aventage 3070 specs and release date.

Oh, and I didn't mention it but, the only difference I saw when watching a down scaled 4K movie vs standard Blu-ray, on our W9, was a slight sharpness increase of the image.

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post #5864 of 5874 Old 03-24-2017, 11:28 AM
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So at this point it seems the UBP-X800 is the absolute best match for our KDL-55W900A sets? When it comes to extracting as much detail from 4K Blu-ray? Are features enabled automatically such as getting x.v color from the 4K discs? Or do we need to start a list? Very confused right now

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post #5865 of 5874 Old 03-24-2017, 06:25 PM
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Quote:
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So at this point it seems the UBP-X800 is the absolute best match for our KDL-55W900A sets? When it comes to extracting as much detail from 4K Blu-ray? Are features enabled automatically such as getting x.v color from the 4K discs? Or do we need to start a list? Very confused right now
I was not able to get BT. 709 x.v.color translated from DCI-P3/BT.2020. So I wouldn't go into this purchase expecting that.

The PQ was identical with "mastered in 4k" x.v.color discs between the UBD-X800, BDP-790 and BDP-6200.

It was posted earlier that the Panasonic units are likely still the best for 1080p down-conversion. Just go back a page or two of posts.
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post #5866 of 5874 Old 03-24-2017, 07:25 PM
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I was not able to get BT. 709 x.v.color translated from DCI-P3/BT.2020. So I wouldn't go into this purchase expecting that.

The PQ was identical with "mastered in 4k" x.v.color discs between the UBD-X800, BDP-790 and BDP-6200.

It was posted earlier that the Panasonic units are likely still the best for 1080p down-conversion. Just go back a page or two of posts.
Gotcha. Thank you. And damn. I went back and see it now. Jorgens stated "if the new sony 4k player you mention can correctly convert rec2020 WCG from 4k to to rec.709 with xvYCC (eg x.v.Color)for 2k 1080p output". Which it cannot. Ugh

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post #5867 of 5874 Old 03-27-2017, 09:18 AM
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Gotcha. Thank you. And damn. I went back and see it now. Jorgens stated "if the new sony 4k player you mention can correctly convert rec2020 WCG from 4k to to rec.709 with xvYCC (eg x.v.Color)for 2k 1080p output". Which it cannot. Ugh

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The Panny UHD player needs to have the HDfury linker https://www.hdfury.com/shop/videopro...60-444-600mhz/ installed between the player and the TV for you to get BT2020 metedata from HDR to SDR playback on non HDR tv's. Plus the UB900 doesn't support DTS-X or Dolby Atmos and cost $699 + $200 for the HDfury

As of now the guy's over at HDfury have yet to test the X800 with their HDfury product to get BT2020 metedata from the Sony.

The OPPO ($549) is capable of the down conversion, and still has issues even with it's latest Firmware update.

High Dynamic Range
The UDP-203 supports High Dynamic Range (HDR) and Wide Color Gamut. The enhanced resolution, refined contrast, greater brightness, and expanded color produce stunning video with unparalleled clarity and detail. In addition to supporting the HDR10 format on discs and video files, it is also capable of providing an accurate conversion of HDR to SDR for older displays, as well as conversion between various color spaces such as BT.2020, BT.709, and BT.601.

Sony 55W900A
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Yamaha Aventage A1030
Klipsch RF-82 II, Klipsch RC-62 II, Klipsch RS-52 II, Klipsch RB-51 II (Front Preference)
SVS PB-2000

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post #5868 of 5874 Old 04-07-2017, 08:01 AM
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The Panny UHD player needs to have the HDfury linker https://www.hdfury.com/shop/videopro...60-444-600mhz/ installed between the player and the TV for you to get BT2020 metedata from HDR to SDR playback on non HDR tv's. Plus the UB900 doesn't support DTS-X or Dolby Atmos and cost $699 + $200 for the HDfury

As of now the guy's over at HDfury have yet to test the X800 with their HDfury product to get BT2020 metedata from the Sony.

The OPPO ($549) is capable of the down conversion, and still has issues even with it's latest Firmware update.

High Dynamic Range
The UDP-203 supports High Dynamic Range (HDR) and Wide Color Gamut. The enhanced resolution, refined contrast, greater brightness, and expanded color produce stunning video with unparalleled clarity and detail. In addition to supporting the HDR10 format on discs and video files, it is also capable of providing an accurate conversion of HDR to SDR for older displays, as well as conversion between various color spaces such as BT.2020, BT.709, and BT.601.
What kind of issues?

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post #5869 of 5874 Old 04-07-2017, 08:11 AM
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@JustinGGX

If your referring to the OPPO 203 just read thru the thread Official OPPO UDP-203 Owner's Thread

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post #5870 of 5874 Old 04-07-2017, 08:41 PM
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Quote:
http://spearsandmunsil.com/portfolio/choosing-a-color-space-2/
thanks for posting the reference, it is an interesting article which also discusses the chroma bug found in most of the 2016 released 4k bluray players from many manufacturers
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I've just read an article that Dolby Vision could come to older devices via a software update and only requires HDMI 1.4.

Could this be of use to us?

Unfortunately I can't link to the article but if you google "Dolby Vision Software" it should come up.
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post #5872 of 5874 Old 04-22-2017, 11:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Vikash Poye View Post
I've just read an article that Dolby Vision could come to older devices via a software update and only requires HDMI 1.4.

Could this be of use to us?

Unfortunately I can't link to the article but if you google "Dolby Vision Software" it should come up.
No
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post #5873 of 5874 Old 05-24-2017, 08:44 AM
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I just wanted to stop in and say hello to all my fellow W900A owners. It's been awhile since I have been on here and my W9 still still kicking and doing its thing beautifully. I still have no interest in 4K/HDR and its all thanks to my W9 and as long as its still kicking and doing its thing I wont be parting with it anytime soon. Take it easy everyone!
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post #5874 of 5874 Old 06-23-2017, 06:54 PM
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Hello W9 owners, I though you would get a kick out of this!
Scrub to 3:45. Steve mentions the W9 is in his opinion is the best 1080p TV ever made. Mine is still going strong but I plan to upgrade to 4K HDR next year. I plan to buy the new Xbox One X this holiday so I need some 4K HDR gaming in my life next year. Hopefully Sony will release a second gen Z9.
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