Official LG 84LM9600 (Ultra HD 4K) Owners' Thread - Page 22 - AVS Forum
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post #631 of 1225 Old 06-18-2013, 05:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Sir_Mark View Post

Hi Dreaux,

Yes, that makes sense, thank you. After doing more research I realized that what was happening.

Question; Do people here use TruMotion? Too much of that will cause the SOE, right?

Thank you for your help.

Mark

I have not seen an option for TruMotion in the settings.
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post #632 of 1225 Old 06-19-2013, 04:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Michael Osadciw View Post

Hi guys

Ok, so the ghost/enhancement that I posted back on (I think) page 19 - it's an artifact of the 84LM9600's 2K -> 4K conversion. The 4K generator that LG brought to my dealer wasn't what I was expecting; it was a device that looped 2160p images (a mixture of stills and motion video). The source material was a bit disappointing since some looked good and some had edge enhancement applied. Compression artefacts was also present when getting closer to the screen. Fine details were blurred because of compression somwhere from where ever the source originated to the generator that was producing the images. Since I don't know where these images came from or how they were authored, it's all up in the air. Strangely, MPEG-2 compression was used at a fixed bitrate of 160MBPS. I thought we were well beyond MPEG-2 in 2013...but I guess not!

Back to the LG's Ultra HD upscaling...

Since there were no test patterns in the generator, I used the Spears & Munsil disc's sharpness pattern through LG's Blu-ray player with a Monster M1000 HDMI cable directly to the TV. Sending the sharpness pattern out of the player, set at 1080p and Ultra HD upscaling in the player turned OFF, the TV created the ghost/enhancement alongside all lines in my calibrated mode (using ISF Expert 1). The single-pixel multiburst pattern was also less defined between each on/off line much like what I saw with the multiburst on my 1080p test pattern generator. Setting the Blu-ray player to "auto" resolution and Ultra HD upscaling turned ON, the ghost/enhancement lines disappeared 100%. They were solid from the black edge to the gray background. Looking at the single-pixel multiburst pattern, I could clearly see two horizontal pixel rows turned on, and two turned off (just about...). They appeared to be the same intensity as the wider columns, whereas with the TV's upscaler dimmed the single pixel columns in comparison.

With this TV, I recommend using an external 4K upscaler rather than the one in the TV. You'd still need to test the external scaler because we can't assume they are all good, but at least I've ruled out the 84LM9600's. Their $500 or so Blu-ray player upscaler does a better job. I'm sure the Oppo 4K upscaler does too. Use the S&M disc and check for yourself because anyone can see it. Make sure sharpness is set to 0 in any of the modes you use.

Regards,

Mike

Very interesting. So it seems as though the LG's internal upscaler processing is what is introducing this effect. I do own an Oppo 103, and from where I sit, the LG upscaling and Oppo's upscaling look the same to me. Of course we now know that there is indeed a difference, but just from a look and watch setting, unless you really know what you're looking for, it's not obvious. And I'm sure that many owners of this TV will be plenty happy using the LG's upscaler. When I get a chance though, I will once again set the Oppo to upscale, and leave it that way for a while and see if I prefer it over what I've been seeing using the LG to do the up-scaling.

It will be interesting to see if the Sony 84" has a similar ghosting when using its internal up-scaler. If/when you get to spend some hands on time with one, please chime in and share your findings.

Thanks again for your very useful info!wink.gif


Seth
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post #633 of 1225 Old 06-19-2013, 09:14 PM
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Will the Humax HDR-7500 Digital Video Recorder improve the LG's picture quality when watching standard definition TV shows, or is the inbuilt upscaler in the LG sufficient? (This DVR upscales standard def programs to HD quality)
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post #634 of 1225 Old 06-19-2013, 09:52 PM
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Thanks to others I bought Cleopatra in Blu-ray even though I have the DVD version. The picture is much improved and the movie is quite a spectacle. I had forgotten the details so it was good to see it again. Eve though I got the cheaper 50th anniversary edition there were still hours of extras.
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post #635 of 1225 Old 06-20-2013, 06:13 AM
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Originally Posted by NSX1992 View Post

Thanks to others I bought Cleopatra in Blu-ray even though I have the DVD version. The picture is much improved and the movie is quite a spectacle. I had forgotten the details so it was good to see it again. Eve though I got the cheaper 50th anniversary edition there were still hours of extras.

Yes it looks very good. Nice to see all the details in this spectacle. Found a double Blu-ray collection of the Mayer 65mm and 70mm of Ben Hur and The 10 Commandments. Those too look great. Really shows off the LG PQ.
Those movies shot in 70mm really shine on blu-rays.
Sony has made a 4K transfer of Lawrence of Arabia but its only available on their 4K server.
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post #636 of 1225 Old 06-20-2013, 06:36 AM
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L9300 series of Toshiba TVs shipping this summer, the series will be available in 58-, 65- and 84-inch sizes.

Looks like the last of the 84" isn't over yet.
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post #637 of 1225 Old 06-20-2013, 08:43 AM
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post #638 of 1225 Old 06-20-2013, 10:42 AM
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Toshiba has not made a popular product in some time, hopefully this will change things......

Its almost like Toshiba never fully recovered from the HD DVD vs. Blu-ray war.
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post #639 of 1225 Old 06-20-2013, 10:54 AM
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Originally Posted by dreaux View Post

Yes it looks very good. Nice to see all the details in this spectacle. Found a double Blu-ray collection of the Mayer 65mm and 70mm of Ben Hur and The 10 Commandments. Those too look great. Really shows off the LG PQ.
Those movies shot in 70mm really shine on blu-rays.
Sony has made a 4K transfer of Lawrence of Arabia but its only available on their 4K server.
Thanks. I just ordered Ben Hur, The 10 Commandments and Spartacus.

I was disappointed in the 4K Mastered Taxi Driver as it did not look that good.
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post #640 of 1225 Old 06-20-2013, 03:18 PM
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Originally Posted by NSX1992 View Post

Thanks. I just ordered Ben Hur, The 10 Commandments and Spartacus.

I was disappointed in the 4K Mastered Taxi Driver as it did not look that good.

Yeah I heard the Taxi Driver has a lot of grain to achieve that gritty look.

Spartacus huh....I forgot about that. I guess there were a lot of epics made in the late fifties and early sixties and they all used CinemaScope.
Films like The Robe and Quo Vadis and El Cid.
I watched West Side Story the other night and it looked very good. They did a great job the restoration blu-ray.
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post #641 of 1225 Old 06-20-2013, 04:47 PM
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A friend just went into the Sony NY flagship store a couple days ago and was offered the sony setup with media server for $15k. Appears they've meaningfully dropped their price. now I definitely have post purchase anxiety.... would have happily sprung the difference to get that content and better processing eek.gif

AV stuff here
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post #642 of 1225 Old 06-20-2013, 05:48 PM
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Originally Posted by silverlight View Post

A friend just went into the Sony NY flagship store a couple days ago and was offered the sony setup with media server for $15k. Appears they've meaningfully dropped their price. now I definitely have post purchase anxiety.... would have happily sprung the difference to get that content and better processing eek.gif

This for the 84"? An open box or return set?
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post #643 of 1225 Old 06-20-2013, 06:08 PM
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Originally Posted by dreaux View Post

This for the 84"? An open box or return set?

They were told brand new.... but who knows given the fact they're no longer selling the unit after the 200 are sold.

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post #644 of 1225 Old 06-21-2013, 04:51 AM
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Originally Posted by john546 View Post

Will the Humax HDR-7500 Digital Video Recorder improve the LG's picture quality when watching standard definition TV shows, or is the inbuilt upscaler in the LG sufficient? (This DVR upscales standard def programs to HD quality)

Not sure I can answer your whole question. I use my Directv to up scale to 1080p and my AVR is set to 1080p and then the LG up scales that to the 4K panel. I have not tried source direct yet to see how the LG up scales either 1080i or 720p. I just figured it was best to send the LG a 1080p source. Others may do it differently.
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post #645 of 1225 Old 06-21-2013, 06:03 AM
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Originally Posted by dreaux View Post

I have not seen an option for TruMotion in the settings.

Hi Dreaux,

Does this TV scale all 1080/720/480 resolutions to 4K 240Hz? Is there no way to control the panels refresh rate; i.e. turn it down to 60Hz? Does it take film's 24 FPS and convert it to 240? Wouldn't that make the picture unnaturally smooth?

I'm very seriously considering buying this TV, just wish I could see it first.

Thanks.

Mark
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post #646 of 1225 Old 06-21-2013, 06:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Sir_Mark View Post

Hi Dreaux,

Does this TV scale all 1080/720/480 resolutions to 4K 240Hz? Is there no way to control the panels refresh rate; i.e. turn it down to 60Hz? Does it take film's 24 FPS and convert it to 240? Wouldn't that make the picture unnaturally smooth?

I'm very seriously considering buying this TV, just wish I could see it first.

Thanks.

Mark

When I feed the set with a 1080p source and hit 'info' on the remote I see 1080p 60Hz on the screen. When I up convert to 4K from my Oppo 103 or Onkyo AVR and send that to the set I see 2160p 30Hz.
The info only tells me what the source is not the current resolution on the set so I do not know for certain what Hz it is. I know it up scaling to 2160p.

If I send it a 4K source it can only go up to 30Hz, if I am playing a Blu-ray I see 24Hz. The 30Hz is a limitation of the HDMI 1.4. An HDMI 2.0 will allow higher frame rates but of course that is not available yet.

I would assume that the LG is scaling anything fed to it to 4K. That's all I know, perhaps Seth can add more info. I can't find anywhere in the settings the ability to control the frame rate. Now maybe there is a way, I just haven't found it.

Yeah I had the same problem of not finding a place to view it. I could only find the Sony 84" to view. They are very similar with the Sony having more of a smoother film like look. I am told LG makes the Sony panel so they are very similar with the LG having slightly better black levels IMO. I don't think you can do wrong by buying the set assuming you can get a good price. So far the best price from a reputable dealer I have seen is from Cleveland Plasma.
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post #647 of 1225 Old 06-21-2013, 06:40 AM
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Originally Posted by silverlight View Post

A friend just went into the Sony NY flagship store a couple days ago and was offered the sony setup with media server for $15k. Appears they've meaningfully dropped their price. now I definitely have post purchase anxiety.... would have happily sprung the difference to get that content and better processing eek.gif



According to the Sony Store in NYC (Sony Plaza), this is BS. (Not your post, but your friends pricing comment.) The Sony store's can never quote below the main Sony Store website, and according to the manager there, he has no indication of any price reduction on the 84" 4K's. Not saying a price reduction isn't possible, only that at this point they have no word of a reduction, nor does he expect one.

So don't feel bad! (Frankly, having just bought the 84" (have not even powered it on yet) I was kind of hoping it was true, might have been able to talk Sony out of another 4K, maybe the 65". biggrin.gif)


Jim
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post #648 of 1225 Old 06-21-2013, 03:20 PM
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Originally Posted by john546 View Post

I am very soon to take the plunge and buy the LG 84 uhdtv. I plan to use it with the Apple TV, the marantz sr5007 amp (or similar), and a quality pioneer or similar blu ray player.

Should I be getting a oppo blu ray player (or a red ray player) as well (or instead of the Panasonic)?
IMO the LG inbuilt up scaler worked fantastic when the shop attendant played a blu ray movie on the tv. Is there a real need for the oppo for the average movie buff?

Can standard definition television shows be watched in a smaller window on the screen to avoid the loss of definition when stretched to 84 inches? Is watching standard definition television shows disappointing due to the loss of clarity?

Any advice and opinions would be greatly appreciated. smile.gif

With normal viewing (not using test equipment and test patterns), the images on the LG using its built in upscaler are amazing! When I did an A/B using the Oppo vs the LG to upscale, both looked the same to me. Of course this is just what I saw from my seating location, and would be different if using test patterns with test equipment.

You know, that's a good question! I have not looked for a picture size option to play a smaller window for standard definition stuff. When filling the entire screen, standard definition material doesn't look that great. But this is true for any of the 84" UHD TV's.
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post #649 of 1225 Old 06-21-2013, 03:23 PM
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Originally Posted by eddgreen View Post

I get my LG monday now ive a 55ins tv
I miss going to the cinema so watching sky movies uk
In july skyfall (james bond) s on

You should have your new TV in place now.smile.gif Congratulations on your new TV! What do you think of it so far?
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post #650 of 1225 Old 06-21-2013, 06:23 PM
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OK, this is what I don't understand - the limitation to 30HZ is because of the HDMI 1.4, and 2.0 standard not being set yet. But, this is for Inputting. What's to stop the set Internally going to 60HZ?
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post #651 of 1225 Old 06-21-2013, 07:12 PM
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Originally Posted by dreaux View Post

Not sure I can answer your whole question. I use my Directv to up scale to 1080p and my AVR is set to 1080p and then the LG up scales that to the 4K panel. I have not tried source direct yet to see how the LG up scales either 1080i or 720p. I just figured it was best to send the LG a 1080p source. Others may do it differently.

Thanks for the replies. I ended up buying the Oppo and the humax. I am very happy with all of these products with the picture on my new 84 smile.gif

Quote:
Originally Posted by ohyeah32 View Post

With normal viewing (not using test equipment and test patterns), the images on the LG using its built in upscaler are amazing! When I did an A/B using the Oppo vs the LG to upscale, both looked the same to me. Of course this is just what I saw from my seating location, and would be different if using test patterns with test equipment.

You know, that's a good question! I have not looked for a picture size option to play a smaller window for standard definition stuff. When filling the entire screen, standard definition material doesn't look that great. But this is true for any of the 84" UHD TV's.
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post #652 of 1225 Old 06-21-2013, 08:03 PM
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Originally Posted by p5browne View Post

OK, this is what I don't understand - the limitation to 30HZ is because of the HDMI 1.4, and 2.0 standard not being set yet. But, this is for Inputting. What's to stop the set Internally going to 60HZ?

This is what I know. If you feed the LG a 2160p source the LG does not up scale and the picture is displayed at 30Hz. because when taking in a 2160p input the HDMI 1.4 can only handle 30Hz.

If you feed the LG a 1080p (or 1080i, 720p) source the LG up scales to 2180p but it appears to be 60hz. I know its at least 60 since all sports are smooth, When its 30Hz sports and especially the rolling headlines at the bottom of the screen are choopy. The LG only displays the input resolution so it difficult to know what exactly what it is actually doing. So it appears it will up scale to 2160p 60Hz if you give it a 1080p source.

That is how I understand it as of now. The Sony 84" 4K displays what resolution it is showing but doesn't give the Hz so its hard to know what the Hz is. So at least the Sony tells you what your current resolution is displaying, the LG does not. Hope this helps some but that is a good question I have wondered about.

Jim
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post #653 of 1225 Old 06-21-2013, 08:15 PM
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Originally Posted by john546 View Post

Thanks for the replies. I ended up buying the Oppo and the humax. I am very happy with all of these products with the picture on my new 84 smile.gif

Congratulations on your new set!
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post #654 of 1225 Old 06-22-2013, 03:37 PM
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Originally Posted by NSX1992 View Post

After watching Jack the Giant Slayer again and positive comments from my friends I can now recommend it. The 3D is fine and deep and is certainly better than watching in 2D. I was concerned more about the story but since you enjoyed the first two so much you will also like this one.

A note in 3D Guru states that Sony PS4 and Xbox One will both play 4K videos but only Xbox 4K games. Of course no 4K material was announced at E3 and I have not seen Microsoft verifying the 4K game capability.

I watched Jack the Giant Slayer the other night and I really enjoyed it!smile.gif And while the 3D on it was good, it wasn't up there with Hansel and Gretel or Oz. Jack had some good depth, but only a few pop-out moments. But as a whole, the 3D aspect made the experience more immersive.

Very interesting on the Xbox One and PS4. Will be something if the Xbox One does indeed allow 4K gaming. I guess only time will tell. Thanks for sharing.wink.gif
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post #655 of 1225 Old 06-22-2013, 04:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Sir_Mark View Post

Do people here use TruMotion? Too much of that will cause the SOE, right?

Thank you for your help.

Mark
Quote:
Originally Posted by dreaux View Post

I have not seen an option for TruMotion in the settings.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir_Mark View Post

Hi Dreaux,

Does this TV scale all 1080/720/480 resolutions to 4K 240Hz? Is there no way to control the panels refresh rate; i.e. turn it down to 60Hz? Does it take film's 24 FPS and convert it to 240? Wouldn't that make the picture unnaturally smooth?

I'm very seriously considering buying this TV, just wish I could see it first.

Thanks.

Mark

The native refresh rate of the LG is 120Hz (same with the Sony 84"), the 240Hz is active when the TV's TruMotion is enabled. This is supposed to smooth out any motion blur, but I find the look to be unnatural, and gives the dreaded soap opera effect. Switch TruMotion off in the picture settings menu, this will then place the TV in its native 120Hz refresh rate mode. There will of course be some motion blur, but it gives a more filmic look that most (myself included) much prefer.smile.gif

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post #656 of 1225 Old 06-22-2013, 05:23 PM
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Originally Posted by RetroRick View Post

Thanks go out to all the owners on this thread who helped me decide to get this LG TV, but additional and biggest thanks to Jon Martin for making his lightly used set available at a price I couldn't say "No" to! Not only that, but he went the extra mile(s) and delivered it himself, braving the Los Angeles freeways during rush hour.

Jon's a great guy who delivers on his promises, really knows his AV, and I'd highly recommend his services to anyone who could use them.

Of course, you all know how great this LG set is, so I don't have to rave about it. We chose "Life of Pi" for our first 3D movie to watch this weekend, and weren't disappointed.

My biggest surprise with this television: How good the 2D to 3D conversion is. Sure, you can see spatial mistakes here and there if you're looking for them. But it gets most of the picture pretty close to right, and when you're immersed in what you're watching and not looking for mistakes, your brain will (in most cases) just correct the small parts of the picture that are handled wrong automatically, not unlike how our brains automatically know how to understand the correct 3D reality when we view 2D pictures. I probably won't use this 2D to 3D conversion for TV shows or movies that were shot in 2D and intended to be viewed that way. But so far, I like it for live stuff, like news programs and sports, that I watch a lot of.

First off, congratulations on your new 4K TV!smile.gif Welcome aboard!!

Yep, Jon is a cool guy!smile.gif And that is pretty awesome of him doing what he did. Looks like he gave you a heck of a deal on that lightly used LG!cool.gif

Great to hear that you're enjoying the TV, and it's nice to have you here with us!


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post #657 of 1225 Old 06-22-2013, 05:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Sir_Mark View Post

Hi Dreaux,

Yes, that makes sense, thank you. After doing more research I realized that what was happening.

Question; Do people here use TruMotion? Too much of that will cause the SOE, right?

Thank you for your help.

Mark

Hi Mark

Sorry I gave you the wrong answer on that, I was thinking of another setting. I think Seth explains it well. I have mine on Smooth and I don't notice a SOE but others might. I watch a lot of sports so I just leave in on.
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post #658 of 1225 Old 06-22-2013, 06:13 PM
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Originally Posted by JlgLaw View Post

According to the Sony Store in NYC (Sony Plaza), this is BS. (Not your post, but your friends pricing comment.) The Sony store's can never quote below the main Sony Store website, and according to the manager there, he has no indication of any price reduction on the 84" 4K's. Not saying a price reduction isn't possible, only that at this point they have no word of a reduction, nor does he expect one.

So don't feel bad! (Frankly, having just bought the 84" (have not even powered it on yet) I was kind of hoping it was true, might have been able to talk Sony out of another 4K, maybe the 65". biggrin.gif)


Jim




Just wanted to clarify the comment I posted (see above) in response to a post by Silverlight. In no way was I questioning Silverlight's post regarding what he was told, I'm sure that was accurate. I'm only questioning the price that was quoted to his friend, which according to my sources indicate that price is not currently possible. That said, Sony could of course change current pricing at anytime. My apologies to Silverlight if my response in any way gave the impression I was questioning his integrity, that was not intended.

My apologies also for taking up yet another post off topic for this thread, I will now move over to the appropriate Sony thread.smile.gif



Jim
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post #659 of 1225 Old 06-22-2013, 06:25 PM
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Originally Posted by JlgLaw View Post

Just wanted to clarify the comment I posted (see above) in response to a post by Silverlight. In no way was I questioning Silverlight's post regarding what he was told, I'm sure that was accurate. I'm only questioning the price that was quoted to his friend, which according to my sources indicate that price is not currently possible. That said, Sony could of course change current pricing at anytime. My apologies to Silverlight if my response in any way gave the impression I was questioning his integrity, that was not intended.

My apologies also for taking up yet another post off topic for this thread, I will now move over to the appropriate Sony thread.smile.gif



Jim

Jim,

It's not a problem at all you mentioning about what you found out here on this thread. And even though you are an owner of the Sony 84", you are always welcome to drop in and post stuff here.wink.gif


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post #660 of 1225 Old 06-22-2013, 06:32 PM
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Very cool, thanks Seth!smile.gif


Jim
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