Official LG 84LM9600 (Ultra HD 4K) Owners' Thread - Page 7 - AVS Forum
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LCD Flat Panel Displays > Official LG 84LM9600 (Ultra HD 4K) Owners' Thread
purchasing102's Avatar purchasing102 07:03 AM 04-27-2013
I have a 4k camera if anyone wants some footage, just let me know what kind and what format you want it in. If anyone lives in the Netherlands and would be willing to show me footage on the LG that would be cool too.

Sir_Mark's Avatar Sir_Mark 08:15 AM 04-27-2013
Does anyone have any pictures of the banding issues? I'm thinking of buying this TV, but curious to see how much the banding will bother me. Thanks.
Tj8xp's Avatar Tj8xp 12:39 PM 04-27-2013
On the top of the screen it will show 2160P when your running at the right Rez.... Just like if you run 1920 X 1080 it will show 1080P in the top right corner.

I really think the banding is an problem at the moment yes you can't see it on everything but when you do it just makes you sick because a 500 dollar LCD
do not have the problem.

I called LG there coming out themselves to see the set Monday I have a lot of Video that clearly shows the banding lets see if they say its fine or if they step up.

The 4k looks stunning and I really love the fact that we are at the start of all this can't wait to see a picture in two years going be exciting !!!!
ohyeah32's Avatar ohyeah32 05:05 PM 04-27-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir_Mark View Post

Does anyone have any pictures of the banding issues? I'm thinking of buying this TV, but curious to see how much the banding will bother me. Thanks.

The banding only presents itself with camera pans. You'll see vertical banding when scenes pan left/right, and some horizontal banding when the scenes pan up/down. When the scene is still it's not there, and on non pastel colored backgrounds you can't see it at all.

Taking some clear photos of it might prove difficult, as it's only visible with movement. While I wish it wasn't there at all, the overall PQ, and the amazing 3D that this TV delivers, helps offset the banding anomaly somewhat. And this banding anomaly is actually part and partial of edge lit LED/LCD displays in general, and the larger in screen size you go the more difficult it is to have the screen uniformly lit. I did a bit of searching online and found that banding is a VERY common thing on edge lit LED TV's, regardless of manufacturer.

So most likely, since this is being seen on all of the LG 84LM9600's here, then this is something that's inherent to the panel, and most likely isn't something that can be corrected via a firmware update. After reading about banding on edge lit LED TV's, I now feel a bit better about what I see on mine, as it's a common trait on edge lit TV's.

For most content that doesn't involve a lot of pale blue skies, or snow, the banding is isn't as much of an issue. The TV is very well built, and is very elegant, being that the entire TV is metal with a glass screen. Fit and finish on this TV is first class!

So apparently about the only way to resolve most banding issues, is for the TV to be completely back lit as opposed to edge lit. If this LG had been back lit with local dimming, that would have made this an almost perfect UHD TV, but would most likely have increased the msrp another $7,000+. And knowing that even the $25,000 Sony has this banding uniformity thing as well, makes me know that there's not a defect with my TV, and that's just the way it is.

If you're coming from a plasma TV or rear projection TV, then seeing the banding can be an annoying thing. But if you're going in knowing about this, and are wanting the absolute best looking HD and 3D, this TV delivers that in spades!
NSX1992's Avatar NSX1992 08:25 PM 04-27-2013
I applaud ohyeah32 for his enthusiasm and numerous posts responding to valid questions. I agree with him and personally I dont 'even see the banding unless I am looking for it and there is a light background. As I am typing this on my PC I don't see any banding and the background is nearly white. You cannot take a picture when you can't even see it.
Tj8xp's Avatar Tj8xp 10:42 PM 04-27-2013
I guess I'm just a picky person....rolleyes.gif But why would LG not inform buyers that the set had these banding problems in every manual ect. you know the thing like hay unlit or stuck pixels type thing...

This 4 K set is big $$$$ I feel they should not have these banding problems but again we first adopters go through this.

I really wonder what LG is going to say when they see the set I will keep you all posted on this......

Tj8xp...................cool.gif
ohyeah32's Avatar ohyeah32 01:22 AM 04-28-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by NSX1992 View Post

I applaud ohyeah32 for his enthusiasm and numerous posts responding to valid questions. I agree with him and personally I dont 'even see the banding unless I am looking for it and there is a light background. As I am typing this on my PC I don't see any banding and the background is nearly white. You cannot take a picture when you can't even see it.

Thanks.wink.gif I appreciate all the input you've given in your posts as well.smile.gif

With static white, light blue, light gray, or any pastel colored solid background, I also see no banding. if the image is not moving it's not visible.

But even on those moving scenes where the banding is somewhat visible, it's still not enough to take away from the overall gorgeous picture that this TV produces. The more I watch movies and TV shows on this TV, the more I'm wowed by it.
ohyeah32's Avatar ohyeah32 01:48 AM 04-28-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tj8xp View Post

I guess I'm just a picky person....rolleyes.gif But why would LG not inform buyers that the set had these banding problems in every manual ect. you know the thing like hay unlit or stuck pixels type thing...

This 4 K set is big $$$$ I feel they should not have these banding problems but again we first adopters go through this.

I really wonder what LG is going to say when they see the set I will keep you all posted on this......

Tj8xp...................cool.gif

I consider myself a pretty picky person as well. While we could get upset that LG didn't mention anything about the banding anomaly, if you think about it, every other TV maker doesn't advertise their TV's having banding issues either. And as I mentioned in one of my other posts, vertical (and horizontal) banding is a very common thing with edge lit LED TV's. So this isn't something that only affects LG TV's, but every other TV maker out there as well. It's just an effect of it being edge lit, and with it being 84 inches, screen uniformity at this size makes edge lighting even more of a challenge.

And even second and third generation edge lit TV's that are 1080p still have screen uniformity issues. So there's no guarantee that a second generation UHD TV from LG will eliminate the banding. I'm just happy that LG actually made this TV available to own. Many times we see these drool worthy prototypes at CES that never see the light of day for consumers. This time LG stepped up to the plate and actually delivered on their promises of a next gen TV. I give the company kudos for that.

I have been wanting a passive 3D TV that was larger than 70 inches for the past 2 years. And had this TV not been made available, I would have had to continue to wait. And if it had not been for LG, Sony would not have introduced theirs either, as Sony uses LG's panels for their TV's. So banding aside, I consider ourselves very lucky to actually own this beautiful TV.

Most content that I watch on this TV leaves a huge smile on my face, as I am just reveling in the beautifully detailed and vibrant images I see.

But I am curious as to what the LG technicians tell you when they see the set. Look forward to your post on that.


Seth
silverlight's Avatar silverlight 02:53 AM 04-28-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by ohyeah32 View Post

Thanks.wink.gif I appreciate all the input you've given in your posts as well.smile.gif

With static white, light blue, light gray, or any pastel colored solid background, I also see no banding. if the image is not moving it's not visible.

But even on those moving scenes where the banding is somewhat visible, it's still not enough to take away from the overall gorgeous picture that this TV produces. The more I watch movies and TV shows on this TV, the more I'm wowed by it.

x2! (on the passive 3D comment as well, been waiting for full hd 3D passive in size for a while)
dreaux's Avatar dreaux 06:34 AM 04-28-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by ohyeah32 View Post

I consider myself a pretty picky person as well. While we could get upset that LG didn't mention anything about the banding anomaly, if you think about it, every other TV maker doesn't advertise their TV's having banding issues either. And as I mentioned in one of my other posts, vertical (and horizontal) banding is a very common thing with edge lit LED TV's. So this isn't something that only affects LG TV's, but every other TV maker out there as well. It's just an effect of it being edge lit, and with it being 84 inches, screen uniformity at this size makes edge lighting even more of a challenge.

And even second and third generation edge lit TV's that are 1080p still have screen uniformity issues. So there's no guarantee that a second generation UHD TV from LG will eliminate the banding. I'm just happy that LG actually made this TV available to own. Many times we see these drool worthy prototypes at CES that never see the light of day for consumers. This time LG stepped up to the plate and actually delivered on their promises of a next gen TV. I give the company kudos for that.

I have been wanting a passive 3D TV that was larger than 70 inches for the past 2 years. And had this TV not been made available, I would have had to continue to wait. And if it had not been for LG, Sony would not have introduced theirs either, as Sony uses LG's panels for their TV's. So banding aside, I consider ourselves very lucky to actually own this beautiful TV.

Most content that I watch on this TV leaves a huge smile on my face, as I am just reveling in the beautifully detailed and vibrant images I see.

But I am curious as to what the LG technicians tell you when they see the set. Look forward to your post on that.


Seth

Just looked at your setup, very very impressive. Tell me how much better a picture does the LG 84" have over the Sony KDS-R70XBR2 70" SXRD HDTV you had or have? Is the up scaling that much better? The Sony 70" had a sweet picture if I recall.
Sir_Mark's Avatar Sir_Mark 07:14 AM 04-28-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tj8xp View Post

On the top of the screen it will show 2160P when your running at the right Rez.... Just like if you run 1920 X 1080 it will show 1080P in the top right corner.

I really think the banding is an problem at the moment yes you can't see it on everything but when you do it just makes you sick because a 500 dollar LCD
do not have the problem.

I called LG there coming out themselves to see the set Monday I have a lot of Video that clearly shows the banding lets see if they say its fine or if they step up.

The 4k looks stunning and I really love the fact that we are at the start of all this can't wait to see a picture in two years going be exciting !!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ohyeah32 View Post

The banding only presents itself with camera pans. You'll see vertical banding when scenes pan left/right, and some horizontal banding when the scenes pan up/down. When the scene is still it's not there, and on non pastel colored backgrounds you can't see it at all.

Taking some clear photos of it might prove difficult, as it's only visible with movement. While I wish it wasn't there at all, the overall PQ, and the amazing 3D that this TV delivers, helps offset the banding anomaly somewhat. And this banding anomaly is actually part and partial of edge lit LED/LCD displays in general, and the larger in screen size you go the more difficult it is to have the screen uniformly lit. I did a bit of searching online and found that banding is a VERY common thing on edge lit LED TV's, regardless of manufacturer.

So most likely, since this is being seen on all of the LG 84LM9600's here, then this is something that's inherent to the panel, and most likely isn't something that can be corrected via a firmware update. After reading about banding on edge lit LED TV's, I now feel a bit better about what I see on mine, as it's a common trait on edge lit TV's.

For most content that doesn't involve a lot of pale blue skies, or snow, the banding is isn't as much of an issue. The TV is very well built, and is very elegant, being that the entire TV is metal with a glass screen. Fit and finish on this TV is first class!

So apparently about the only way to resolve most banding issues, is for the TV to be completely back lit as opposed to edge lit. If this LG had been back lit with local dimming, that would have made this an almost perfect UHD TV, but would most likely have increased the msrp another $7,000+. And knowing that even the $25,000 Sony has this banding uniformity thing as well, makes me know that there's not a defect with my TV, and that's just the way it is.

If you're coming from a plasma TV or rear projection TV, then seeing the banding can be an annoying thing. But if you're going in knowing about this, and are wanting the absolute best looking HD and 3D, this TV delivers that in spades!

Quote:
Originally Posted by NSX1992 View Post

I applaud ohyeah32 for his enthusiasm and numerous posts responding to valid questions. I agree with him and personally I dont 'even see the banding unless I am looking for it and there is a light background. As I am typing this on my PC I don't see any banding and the background is nearly white. You cannot take a picture when you can't even see it.

Ohyeah, NSX and Tj8, thank you guys for responding to my question about banding. smile.gif I did a Google search and saw some examples of banding (on other TV sets) and was shocked how bad it was on some TV's. And then there is clouding and backlight bleed...geez....WTH....seems like we are moving backwards in TV picture quality.

I am going to call Mitsubishi this week and see if I can get my Laservue L75-A91 TV either fixed or replaced; if not then I might just have to drop down 10" and seriously consider a plasma....I'm just not sure what I am going to do yet. I really like the big screen, lol.

Still, the 84LM9600 does have an awesome picture and most of the people on here really seem to enjoy it and no TV is perfect; nor do I expect one to be.

Thanks again for the help!
bscloutier's Avatar bscloutier 10:55 AM 04-28-2013
Sorry I've been away... work gets in the way.

I wasn't aware of the "banding" PQ defect when I purchased this panel. It took some weeks before I started to question something that I was seeing. I now believe that it is what others of you have referred to as "banding". That's a problem when you describe something with a single name and assume that everyone understands. I am sure that I am as guilty of that as anyone else.

Here's what I invite all of you to do no matter what set you own even if it is plasma. Download the AVSHD 709 calibration disk from the forums here. Display the solid 75% Grey Field from the 'Misc. Patterns' section, E - Windows & Fields chapter 15. The non-uniformity that you see is the "banding" that I believe you are all referring to.

There is non-uniformity here in streaks that are both horizontal and vertical. I believe that this is present on every LCD/LED panel manufactured. What you should not see are any severe groupings appearing as large white or dark bands. Those would be considered (from what I can tell) as manufacturing defects. The non-uniformity must be inherent in the technology but panels reaching the market should be as uniform (random variations) as possible in both directions.



If you stare at this you will see both vertical and horizontal light bands mostly in the upper right quarter of the screen. In fact on this panel the bands create a couple of rectangles that sometimes you can see in the picture. Probably the only time this is apparent and annoying is in viewing golf. As mentioned earlier, light uniform backgrounds (sky, grass) when panned brings out the effect as the bands remain fixed to the screen and don't track the ball. I have a video but I am not really ready to post it publicly because of copyright issues and because LG Executive Support has been outstanding. My panel was replaced on Friday (not the whole set, just the panel). The new panel also has the same defects although the pattern is more uniform, not perfect, but less obvious. The new panel looks more like the lower left corner of the following image than the upper right.



Now, take the 75% Grey Field to the local store and check out other sets. They all have same problem to various levels. The top of the line Sony 55" XBR was awful. Interesting though that the pattern on the Sony was uniquely symmetric about the horizontal and vertical axis. The store's set has two 6" wide vertical light bands that made us laugh when the Golf Channel was put on. If you cannot run the calibration disk, just have them put on some golf.

Those of you with plasma sets, well you don't have this problem precisely but you will see some non-uniformity. There were very symmetric dark bands (2 horizontal and 2 vertical) on the Panasonic plasma set. We think maybe this was the result of the support structure for the screen and some kind of thermal/shielding effect. I did not watch any golf on that particular set. My bet is that you would have been hard pressed to notice the non-uniformity in that particular case.

So what is it? I don't know and can only guess from my own engineering experience. Each pixel, in fact each RGB cell is controlled by an analog signal that results from separate row and column drivers and stored temporarily in the cell. Every electronic component has a value that is delivered to a certain level of tolerance. You might want a 1000 Ohm resistor but what you get is more likely 998 or 1002 Ohms. The same holds for capacitors and inductors. Every transistor has characteristics which are produced to tolerances. Accurate and precise analog circuits are very expensive to create. Even after using the premium most expensive components calibration is generally required.

On this 4K panel you have nearly 25 million analog circuits involved in rendering images. It seems that even the slightest variation in the resulting voltages (electrostatic fields) can be easily detected by our eyes. It is likely that this "banding" effect can be calibrated out if each and every row and column driver could be adjusted in potentially micro-volt steps. This would only be possible in some automated system and then probably take forever making the sets prohibitively expensive.

Of course, additionally this effect could be related to the construction of the LCD panel or even related to the interconnect system used.

The bottom line is that it is somewhat of a relief that the problem is not specifically related to this 84LM9600 panel or specifically to LG. For me, it is disappointing to see but something that (so long as I can understand it) I can put up with especially when I can watch entire features in 3D with spectacular PQ and never notice the effect.

So evaluating your panel using the 75% grey field seems to be simple enough. Take a photo and post and lets see what we are all dealing with.

Bruce
Tj8xp's Avatar Tj8xp 11:04 AM 04-28-2013
Bruce Fantastic reply I will see what LG tells me also they seem to want to get it right as quick as possible we shall see.

They prob will all have the defect but I hope the next panel is at least better wink.gif

Tj8xp
bscloutier's Avatar bscloutier 12:48 PM 04-28-2013
Wondering what is behind the scenes? Here is a photo of the inside of the 84LM9600 set.



The two green elongated rectangular boards to the far left (panel top) are the "inverter" boards controlling the panel's edge lighting. The circuit board enclosed in the perforated metal case just to the right of large black area is timing control board (T-Con). If you are replacing the panel these three boards come with the replacement panel. We had to move all of the others from the old panel.

The large black area is just shielding, a conductive sheet stuck down over the ribbon cables. The same material is used behind many of the boards to shield the panel from stray electromagnetic fields.

Three of the other boards are power supply boards (white ones). The board that is furthest from the camera is the main board where the HDMI, USB, Network and other connectors reside. The speakers have already been removed all except for one (high frequency) speaker which is the long black item to the right side close to technician's knee. The woofers are rear facing and there are right and left high-frequency speakers emanating sound through the bottom edge of the panel. The small black rectangular item along the edge closest to the camera contains the control buttons.

The replacement will likely be shipped directly to your house scheduled to coincide with the service call. My panel was to be delivered by FedEx guaranteed delivery by 10:30am. It arrived at 11:30. I suppose you should double check as to what timezone FedEx is guaranteeing. This is not an item that you will find stuffed in your mailbox. Note also the modest service team arrived (on time) in a fleet of vehicles.



Bruce
bscloutier's Avatar bscloutier 12:57 PM 04-28-2013
If you are mounting this panel on the wall you will appreciate these photos. Making connections squeezing and reaching blindly behind the panel becomes an adventure game. Here is the secret map (not clear in any documentation).




I should have photographed the control buttons. There is however a good line drawing of the buttons in the documentation. I would recommend copying that and affixing it inconspicuously on the wall. If you are stuck with the "magic" controller you will find the buttons attractive for use. I personally have memorized their order at this point. The bottom being the most useful power button. (I am getting a "normal" remote.)
ohyeah32's Avatar ohyeah32 03:53 PM 04-28-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by bscloutier View Post

Sorry I've been away... work gets in the way.

I wasn't aware of the "banding" PQ defect when I purchased this panel. It took some weeks before I started to question something that I was seeing. I now believe that it is what others of you have referred to as "banding". That's a problem when you describe something with a single name and assume that everyone understands. I am sure that I am as guilty of that as anyone else.

Here's what I invite all of you to do no matter what set you own even if it is plasma. Download the AVSHD 709 calibration disk from the forums here. Display the solid 75% Grey Field from the 'Misc. Patterns' section, E - Windows & Fields chapter 15. The non-uniformity that you see is the "banding" that I believe you are all referring to.

There is non-uniformity here in streaks that are both horizontal and vertical. I believe that this is present on every LCD/LED panel manufactured. What you should not see are any severe groupings appearing as large white or dark bands. Those would be considered (from what I can tell) as manufacturing defects. The non-uniformity must be inherent in the technology but panels reaching the market should be as uniform (random variations) as possible in both directions.



If you stare at this you will see both vertical and horizontal light bands mostly in the upper right quarter of the screen. In fact on this panel the bands create a couple of rectangles that sometimes you can see in the picture. Probably the only time this is apparent and annoying is in viewing golf. As mentioned earlier, light uniform backgrounds (sky, grass) when panned brings out the effect as the bands remain fixed to the screen and don't track the ball. I have a video but I am not really ready to post it publicly because of copyright issues and because LG Executive Support has been outstanding. My panel was replaced on Friday (not the whole set, just the panel). The new panel also has the same defects although the pattern is more uniform, not perfect, but less obvious. The new panel looks more like the lower left corner of the following image than the upper right.



Now, take the 75% Grey Field to the local store and check out other sets. They all have same problem to various levels. The top of the line Sony 55" XBR was awful. Interesting though that the pattern on the Sony was uniquely symmetric about the horizontal and vertical axis. The store's set has two 6" wide vertical light bands that made us laugh when the Golf Channel was put on. If you cannot run the calibration disk, just have them put on some golf.

Those of you with plasma sets, well you don't have this problem precisely but you will see some non-uniformity. There were very symmetric dark bands (2 horizontal and 2 vertical) on the Panasonic plasma set. We think maybe this was the result of the support structure for the screen and some kind of thermal/shielding effect. I did not watch any golf on that particular set. My bet is that you would have been hard pressed to notice the non-uniformity in that particular case.

So what is it? I don't know and can only guess from my own engineering experience. Each pixel, in fact each RGB cell is controlled by an analog signal that results from separate row and column drivers and stored temporarily in the cell. Every electronic component has a value that is delivered to a certain level of tolerance. You might want a 1000 Ohm resistor but what you get is more likely 998 or 1002 Ohms. The same holds for capacitors and inductors. Every transistor has characteristics which are produced to tolerances. Accurate and precise analog circuits are very expensive to create. Even after using the premium most expensive components calibration is generally required.

On this 4K panel you have nearly 25 million analog circuits involved in rendering images. It seems that even the slightest variation in the resulting voltages (electrostatic fields) can be easily detected by our eyes. It is likely that this "banding" effect can be calibrated out if each and every row and column driver could be adjusted in potentially micro-volt steps. This would only be possible in some automated system and then probably take forever making the sets prohibitively expensive.

Of course, additionally this effect could be related to the construction of the LCD panel or even related to the interconnect system used.

The bottom line is that it is somewhat of a relief that the problem is not specifically related to this 84LM9600 panel or specifically to LG. For me, it is disappointing to see but something that (so long as I can understand it) I can put up with especially when I can watch entire features in 3D with spectacular PQ and never notice the effect.

So evaluating your panel using the 75% grey field seems to be simple enough. Take a photo and post and lets see what we are all dealing with.

Bruce

Thanks for sharing that most useful info Bruce.smile.gif And it's great to have you back with us here again!smile.gif

From what I've seen on mine with light gray backgrounds, is the faint vertical/horizontal lines are pretty uniform over the entire screen. So there isn't really one area that's a lot more pronounced than another. Interestingly, I haven't noticed the anomaly on medium to darker greens (like grass), and only really see it on pale blue, light tan, or off white backgrounds that are panning.

As you said, this issue seems to be present on nearly all LED/LCD TV's, with edge lit ones being the most prone.
ohyeah32's Avatar ohyeah32 04:08 PM 04-28-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by bscloutier View Post

Wondering what is behind the scenes? Here is a photo of the inside of the 84LM9600 set.



The two green elongated rectangular boards to the far left (panel top) are the "inverter" boards controlling the panel's edge lighting. The circuit board enclosed in the perforated metal case just to the right of large black area is timing control board (T-Con). If you are replacing the panel these three boards come with the replacement panel. We had to move all of the others from the old panel.

The large black area is just shielding, a conductive sheet stuck down over the ribbon cables. The same material is used behind many of the boards to shield the panel from stray electromagnetic fields.

Three of the other boards are power supply boards (white ones). The board that is furthest from the camera is the main board where the HDMI, USB, Network and other connectors reside. The speakers have already been removed all except for one (high frequency) speaker which is the long black item to the right side close to technician's knee. The woofers are rear facing and there are right and left high-frequency speakers emanating sound through the bottom edge of the panel. The small black rectangular item along the edge closest to the camera contains the control buttons.

The replacement will likely be shipped directly to your house scheduled to coincide with the service call. My panel was to be delivered by FedEx guaranteed delivery by 10:30am. It arrived at 11:30. I suppose you should double check as to what timezone FedEx is guaranteeing. This is not an item that you will find stuffed in your mailbox. Note also the modest service team arrived (on time) in a fleet of vehicles.



Bruce

Looks like one complex beast! Very fascinating to actually see what the inside looks like. Looks very neatly arranged. The internals look as beautiful as the outside. Thanks for sharing the pics.wink.gif

Sounds like LG has gone above and beyond with this for you. That really says something about their support. While I haven't had mine serviced, every time I have called them for help over the phone, they have been exceptional. I asked them for a "regular remote" and they overnighted one for me. Now that's what I call service! Very friendly and very helpful staff.

Hopefully I won't ever need to have a service technician come to work on my TV, but in the event I ever do, I hope my experience is as excellent as the one you had. Glad to hear that, even though the banding is still present, it's at a much lesser degree.smile.gif

So far on most material, the banding isn't obtrusive. And I am just in awe with most of the TV shows and Blu-ray's I watch.


Seth
ohyeah32's Avatar ohyeah32 05:55 PM 04-28-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by dreaux View Post

Just looked at your setup, very very impressive. Tell me how much better a picture does the LG 84" have over the Sony KDS-R70XBR2 70" SXRD HDTV you had or have? Is the up scaling that much better? The Sony 70" had a sweet picture if I recall.

The Sony was the best looking TV I have owned before this new LG. I've had it now for over 6 years, and it's still going strong.smile.gif Not once in all the time I was using it did I ever have any issues with it. Beautiful picture, nice design, and very reliable. And it's interesting, but I never had to replace the original lamp. I still have the replacement lamp in its box brand new. I guess I could have replaced the lamp, but out of fear of having the optical block go out I never messed with it. And I guess I'm very fortunate that I didn't have to, as many owners of the Sony set had their optical blocks go out shortly after they replaced the lamp.

Other than really wanting to own a 3D TV, and the possible optical block issue, I was extremely happy with the 70XBR2.smile.gif The LG took a bit of getting used to (not in a bad way though), being that the images were so detailed, so vibrant, and whites were so, well white, and bright! That it was different from what I was used to seeing on the Sony, with its picture being a bit softer (not really dim, but definitely a lot dimmer than the LG), and colors nice and accurate, but not the super vibrant, pop out at you way the LG delivers them. So yes, the LG is definitely a step up in PQ and color over the Sony. But the Sony was a lot more forgiving with lesser quality sources like DVD and heavily compressed HD satellite. On the LG, poor sources become even more prominent upscaled to 84 inches. But high quality noise free HD, be it 1080i or 1080p, look simply gorgeous on this TV!

The Sony, being that it was rear projection LCD (SXRD technology), it had zero banding uniformity issues, no light bleed, no clouding, flashlighting, etc. Blue skies were always smooth and even, and scenes that involved a lot of snow were just smooth white as the camera panned left/right or up/down. If there's anything that I miss on the Sony it's the superb uniformity. Other than the uniformity unevenness on the LG, I LOVE every other thing about it!
dreaux's Avatar dreaux 06:32 PM 04-28-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by ohyeah32 View Post

The Sony was the best looking TV I have owned before this new LG. I've had it now for over 6 years, and it's still going strong.smile.gif Not once in all the time I was using it did I ever have any issues with it. Beautiful picture, nice design, and very reliable. And it's interesting, but I never had to replace the original lamp. I still have the replacement lamp in its box brand new. I guess I could have replaced the lamp, but out of fear of having the optical block go out I never messed with it. And I guess I'm very fortunate that I didn't have to, as many owners of the Sony set had their optical blocks go out shortly after they replaced the lamp.

Other than really wanting to own a 3D TV, and the possible optical block issue, I was extremely happy with the 70XBR2.smile.gif The LG took a bit of getting used to (not in a bad way though), being that the images were so detailed, so vibrant, and whites were so, well white, and bright! That it was different from what I was used to seeing on the Sony, with it's picture being a bit softer (not really dim, but definitely a lot dimmer than the LG), and colors nice and accurate, but not the super vibrant, pop out at you way the LG delivers them. So yes, the LG is definitely a step up in PQ and color over the Sony. But the Sony was a lot more forgiving with lesser quality sources like DVD and heavily compressed HD satellite. On the LG, poor sources become even more prominent upscaled to 84 inches. But high quality noise free HD, be it 1080i or 1080p, look simply gorgeous on this TV!

The Sony, being that it was rear projection LCD (SXRD technology), it had zero banding uniformity issues, no light bleed, no clouding, flashlighting, etc. Blue skies were always smooth and even, and scenes that involved a lot of snow were just smooth white as the camera panned left/right or up/down. If there's anything that I miss on the Sony it's the superb uniformity. Other than the uniformity unevenness on the LG, I LOVE every other thing about it!

Thank you so much for your response, it is helping me make up my mind. I am leaning towards getting one. I just have to sell my current set first!

I owned the Sony70" Qualia06 a few years back and just loved that set.
ohyeah32's Avatar ohyeah32 09:06 PM 04-28-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by dreaux View Post

Thank you so much for your response, it is helping me make up my mind. I am leaning towards getting one. I just have to sell my current set first!

I owned the Sony70" Qualia06 a few years back and just loved that set.

You're welcome.wink.gif I'm glad I was able to help a bit.smile.gif

Yes, those top end SXRD sets were awesome. It's too bad that a great number of them had problems with the optical block. I was one of the very few lucky ones who never experienced it.
ohyeah32's Avatar ohyeah32 09:22 PM 04-28-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir_Mark View Post



Ohyeah, NSX and Tj8, thank you guys for responding to my question about banding. smile.gif I did a Google search and saw some examples of banding (on other TV sets) and was shocked how bad it was on some TV's. And then there is clouding and backlight bleed...geez....WTH....seems like we are moving backwards in TV picture quality.

I am going to call Mitsubishi this week and see if I can get my Laservue L75-A91 TV either fixed or replaced; if not then I might just have to drop down 10" and seriously consider a plasma....I'm just not sure what I am going to do yet. I really like the big screen, lol.

Still, the 84LM9600 does have an awesome picture and most of the people on here really seem to enjoy it and no TV is perfect; nor do I expect one to be.

Thanks again for the help!

You're welcome.wink.gif Glad that we were able to help a bit.smile.gif

Yeah, there are some TV's out there that are horrendous, with major banding issues, clouding, flashlighting, light bleed, stuck pixels, etc. While the occasional light banding is there on the LG 84, it's nowhere near as bad as some other TV's. For the most part, I am very content with the black levels on this TV, and the local dimming does an admirable job in getting the blacks really deep. And for the beautiful PQ this TV gives on most material, I'm a little bit forgiving on the banding.

And you're right, there is no perfect TV, all to some degree or another have an issue. My previous Sony 70" XBR2 SXRD was probably the most "perfect" TV I've had. Great picture, no visual anomalies, no HDMI handshake issues, and extremely reliable. But I was one of very few who actually got such a perfect set, as the majority of owners of this TV had the optical block go bad within 3-4 years. I used mine for over 6 years with no problems. But mine was the exception to the rule. I was pretty much sitting on pins and needles just waiting for the optical block to start acting up, which fortunately it never did.

That along with wanting 3D, were the main reasons for getting this 84" LG.

Seth
NSX1992's Avatar NSX1992 12:22 AM 04-29-2013
As most of you know I love 3D and gaming. When I got my new PC nearly 3 years ago I purchased Nvidia 3DVision kit that included an emitter and 2 pair of Nvidia active glasses. I was able to play the games in 1080p on my 82" and later 92" DLPs (no banding). Six months later Nvidia introduced 3DTVPlay which enabled you to use the glasses that came with your 3D TV and did not require switching the emitter connection at the back of the set. The problem was now instead of 1080p you were forced to use 720p for games. If you owned 3DVision it was free but the emitter had to be connected even though it was no longer used. For new customers the price for 3DTVPlay was only $40, no emitter or glasses.

Today I tried 3D gaming but did not see any 3D. Then I noticed my emitter did not glow a soft green indicating a problem.Also I could not increase the depth adjustment in the Nvidia Control Panel. I contemplated installing the latest drivers but was concerned because I always had problems in the past.I did a clean install and all the drivers,etc were updated without a hitch. There were also some minor changes in the conrol panel as you could choose 3DPlay or checkerboard. 3D choices are 1080p@24Hz or 720p@60Hz. I chose 3DPlay and 3D 1080p and much to my surprise I can now play 3D games in 1080p with deep 3D (the 3D slider works now).Nvidia does not mention this so i don't know if the updates are resposible or the LG that allows it. For $40 all you owners that have Nvidia video cards can now enjoy 3D gaming in 1080p@24Hz.

I may spend the $1,000 for an Nvidia Titan video card that can handle 4K through HDMI to view 4K videos and improve gaming. Just waiting for another confirmation that it will work.
dreaux's Avatar dreaux 12:17 PM 04-29-2013
If the LG 4K is almost as good or equal to the Sony 84K I want one. I spent the morning looking at the Sony XBR-84X900 4K as well as the Sony 4K 65". Both looked amazing but those speakers on the 65" that don't come off look silly. Why they are not detachable like the 84" in the mystery to me.

I asked to view Blu-ray 1080p content and can see that is being up scaled and looked terrific. The black levels and detail is as good or better than the Sharp Elite. But Sony has all this other stuff that comes with the set. They give you a media server (lease) and soon a media player.
That is not out yet. All of this with Sony 4K content and movies. But all that is not worth 12K over the LG. The LG is priced closer to what I can afford. I am sure it looks great but still trying to find one to view.

While I was there someone came in and bought the Sony 84. I had heard July was the earliest you could get one but Magnolia had access to one and he will get it soon. He also bought the Sony 4K projector for another 24K. Found out later he drives a Ferrari, that leaves me out of that crowd.

Darn I wish I could find a place to view the LG, I am most interested in seeing how it does off a HD channel on Dtv.
NSX1992's Avatar NSX1992 04:55 PM 04-29-2013
I downloaded AVSHD 709,extracted and burned to a disk. Unfortunatelly I can only see files without the main title. However I did find a whitish screen shot that could be seen at 80% and other %, so I took a picture. Yes I can see banding but I don't see it while I am typing this reply using my LG as my monitor.

Bruce did they replace your panel with an updated one or the same? 001.JPG 1376k .JPG file
Attached: 001.JPG (1.34 MB) 
Mako88888's Avatar Mako88888 07:04 PM 04-29-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by zebity View Post

AVSers,

I have just joined having put an LG 84LM9600 on the wall at my house and this thread seems to be the right place to discuss findings.

In Australia these are selling for approx AUD $ 13,000 (15% discount from retail). I saw them on demo in a couple of shops and as I was in process of getting a couple of new TV (1 for upstair and 1 for downstairs) and fell in love with image quality I saw in shop. So i got the LG for main room and a 60" Sharp Aquos for upstairs.

Having put an initial deposit down, I then started to do research into 4K content and connections... , which I must say dampened my initial enthusiasm for 4K.

For others looking into this here are the key connection/content things you should know about:

1. HDMI & DisplayPort

HDMI 1.4 - this the only way you can get greater than 1080p resolution via HDMI based connection. The LG provides up to 3840 x 2160 @ 30 FPS ... but It is likely that later this year HDMI Version 2 will be released. this will raise FPS to 60.

However HDMI Version 2 will need new hardware and so would not be a firmware only upgrade :-( .

DisplayPort 1.2 - already provides 3840 x 2160 @ 60 FPS but the LG does not support this :-( . This is a major short coming, why not include hardware that is able to support required output for full UHDTV right from the start.
I hope these comments help potential purchaser make decision.

Cheers from Australia.

Zebity.

Agree fully, and it's keeping me from taking the plunge on this set...along with the banding issues, which are of course outrageous.

Have spent a few hours with the Sony 84" 4K set and no banding was present or able to be perceived, though as you mentioned the lack of HDMI 1.4 on either of these sets is a dealbreaker. Anyone not willing to wait for "HDMI 2.0" hardware (or whatever they wind up calling it) which will enable that sweet sweet 3840x2160@60fps rez in all its glory is making a mistake in my opinion.

Cake was taken out of the oven a bit early here to capture overly eager early-adopter dollars, no other explanation for rushing hardware into the channel.
dreaux's Avatar dreaux 08:18 PM 04-29-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mako88888 View Post

Agree fully, and it's keeping me from taking the plunge on this set...along with the banding issues, which are of course outrageous.

Have spent a few hours with the Sony 84" 4K set and no banding was present or able to be perceived, though as you mentioned the lack of HDMI 1.4 on either of these sets is a dealbreaker. Anyone not willing to wait for "HDMI 2.0" hardware (or whatever they wind up calling it) which will enable that sweet sweet 3840x2160@60fps rez in all its glory is making a mistake in my opinion.

Cake was taken out of the oven a bit early here to capture overly eager early-adopter dollars, no other explanation for rushing hardware into the channel.

Video Inputs: The LG ultra high-definition LED-LCD TV features HDMI (v.1.4)
ohyeah32's Avatar ohyeah32 08:45 PM 04-29-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by dreaux View Post

If the LG 4K is almost as good or equal to the Sony 84K I want one. I spent the morning looking at the Sony XBR-84X900 4K as well as the Sony 4K 65". Both looked amazing but those speakers on the 65" that don't come off look silly. Why they are not detachable like the 84" in the mystery to me.

I asked to view Blu-ray 1080p content and can see that is being up scaled and looked terrific. The black levels and detail is as good or better than the Sharp Elite. But Sony has all this other stuff that comes with the set. They give you a media server (lease) and soon a media player.
That is not out yet. All of this with Sony 4K content and movies. But all that is not worth 12K over the LG. The LG is priced closer to what I can afford. I am sure it looks great but still trying to find one to view.

While I was there someone came in and bought the Sony 84. I had heard July was the earliest you could get one but Magnolia had access to one and he will get it soon. He also bought the Sony 4K projector for another 24K. Found out later he drives a Ferrari, that leaves me out of that crowd.

Darn I wish I could find a place to view the LG, I am most interested in seeing how it does off a HD channel on Dtv.

While the last poster said that he didn't see any banding on the Sony 84"(he may not have), others here said it has it. Even a few reviewers mentioned a screen uniformity issue on the Sony. So I'm sure it exhibits it to some degree as well.

So the guy who's at the Magnolia store buys the 84 inch TV and the 4K front projector, wow, must be nice to have that kind of dough.smile.gif

And while it would be ideal for you to actually see the LG in person, having lived with mine now for about a month, I can say that it does a splendid job with HD satellite content. Of course as you know, satellite programs very wildly. With some being exceptionally clear with few compression artifacts, while other programs have a lot of artifacts (especially with fast movement).

So the quality of the image on this TV is really going to depend on the quality of the content being input. While high quality HD is going to look phenomenal, mediocre to poor HD programming is going to look pretty bad, as it will further enhance those effects.

TV shows like Grimm, Person of Interest, and Revolution, all look fantastic! And they have more detail and vivid colors than I remember seeing on my Sony 70".
dreaux's Avatar dreaux 10:43 PM 04-29-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by ohyeah32 View Post

While the last poster said that he didn't see any banding on the Sony 84"(he may not have), others here said it has it. Even a few reviewers mentioned a screen uniformity issue on the Sony. So I'm sure it exhibits it to some degree as well.

So the guy who's at the Magnolia store buys the 84 inch TV and the 4K front projector, wow, must be nice to have that kind of dough.smile.gif

And while it would be ideal for you to actually see the LG in person, having lived with mine now for about a month, I can say that it does a splendid job with HD satellite content. Of course as you know, satellite programs very wildly. With some being exceptionally clear with few compression artifacts, other programs have a lot of artifacts (especially with fast movement).

So the quality of the image on this TV is really going to depend on the quality of the content being input. While high quality HD is going to look phenomenal, mediocre to poor HD programming is going to look pretty bad, as it will further enhance those effects.

TV shows like Grimm, Person of Interest, and Revolution, all look fantastic! And they have more detail, and vivid colors than I remember seeing on my Sony 70".

Thanks for the additional info. I may have to go with your impressions since I am leaning toward getting one. On an unrelated note, I called Sony and talked to a 84" 4K rep/specialist and was just asking some questions, but he told me something I didn't expect. He says they only made 200 of them and after they are sold, they will make no more.....strange. Not sure how they would support a discontinued set.
ohyeah32's Avatar ohyeah32 11:42 PM 04-29-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by dreaux View Post

Thanks for the additional info. I may have to go with your impressions since I am leaning toward getting one. On an unrelated note, I called Sony and talked to a 84" 4K rep/specialist and was just asking some questions, but he told me something I didn't expect. He says they only made 200 of them and after they are sold, they will make no more.....strange. Not sure how they would support a discontinued set.

That is strange that Sony only made 200, and will make no more of them. Talk about a very limited edition TV. If that is indeed the case, then it's highly doubtful that Sony will make a 2nd generation 84" model. So most likely the largest they will offer will be the 65". Very interesting info, thanks for sharing.wink.gif

As far as I know, LG is still manufacturing their 84" model. The first ones came out last fall, and mine has a mfg date of January 2013. And from what I've heard, the 84LM9600, despite its price tag, is selling very well. If sales surpass expected projections, then this model may very well remain in production, and eventually may see a second gen. 84" model introduced.

I have wanted the 84" LG since I first read that a prototype was being shown at the 2012 CES. And from that point I followed any info on it. I knew that once it was finally a production model and available to buy I was going to get one. Then came the sticker shock of $20k!eek.gif My heart sank and my dream TV once again was the things of dreams.

But then as the months passed, LG allowed some play in their pricing, unlike the Sony, which is sold at full msrp and not discounted. So once again the LG was attainable, and then it actually became my reality.smile.gif

I went in getting this TV sight unseen, as at that time I was not aware of any store in my state that actually had one on display. So only going by professional reviews, and by our thread starter Bruce, I went for it! And I was already prepared for possible banding anomalies, and the strong possibility that the audio was going to be out of sync when listening through my 9.2 surround system.

So far do I have any regrets buying the LG? Nope! I admire it for what it offers, and that is the most detailed and vivid picture I have seen. And the jaw dropping 3D on this TV is the icing on the cake.smile.gif I was a bit put off with the banding at the beginning, but after living with the TV for a while now, it doesn't bother me nearly as much anymore. As most content I watch, be it Blu-ray or HD satellite, looks so darn amazing that I'm wiling to forgive the occasional banding on certain scenes.

I whole heartedly recommend the LG, as it is capable if delivering some of the most striking PQ you'll see. But for ones interested in buying this TV, just be fully aware that the TV isn't perfect, but for what it does give, it'll leave you wowed!


Seth
dreaux's Avatar dreaux 06:27 AM 04-30-2013
Thanks Seth, after looking at your HT set up it is clear to me you know a good picture when you see it. I think I will get it then as soon as I can sell my current tv. Need the money from it plus wouldn't have the room for 2 big sets. Right now I have the Sharp 90" which I like a lot.
However I picked size over great PQ and detail. At the time I bought it there were no 84" nor 4K out. I have it up for sale on videogon.

Appreciate your insights to the set!

Question - does it come with 2 remotes? That magic one seems a little silly.
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