Official 2013 Sony R550A series TVs (KDL-xxR550A) --- 50", 60", and 70" - Page 103 - AVS Forum
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post #3061 of 4276 Old 11-26-2013, 06:09 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Brooks Carter View Post

It's actually not a "snow"-type noise, it's a process called dithering and is how plasmas make certain shades of colors they essentially blend 2 shades to make a 3rd sorta thing and is generally only noticeable from up close(2 feet or less from screen). smile.gif

 

No, not blending two shades.  The issue has to do with the plasma cell.  There is no way to excite a plasma "half way".  It either fires (and sustains at 100%) or it doesn't.  This requires there to be a PWM (Pulse Width Modulation) circuit to vary the amount of time the cell is in discharge.  Because even the best PWM circuits cannot be fine tuned enough to manage even an 8-bit shade depth, plasma displays start dithering.  If you're not used to dithering you can think of it as a sprinkling of on and off cells.  It's not a simple algorithm either, because both PWM and dithering are used together.


Grow milkweed. The Monarch Butterfly requires it, and its numbers are dwindling fast.
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post #3062 of 4276 Old 11-26-2013, 07:21 AM
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I wouldn't base a purchase off of what Cnet has to say, but I do like to know their opinion even though at times I certainly find fault with their reviews. The video is just an overview you have to actually read the 2 page review and on page 2 they state: "Uniformity: There were some minor black uniformity issues with the model we received on the bottom left hand side, but these were only visible on a pure black screen, not during program material, not even "Harry Potter." The otherwise superior Sharp LE650 had worse uniformity issues than this television, with more visible blotchy patches. Off-axis was pretty good on the Sony, with only a slight loss of contrast and decent, if not worse, black levels when viewed from the sides."

I hear you. They should just stick to written reviews. It's just a waste of time IMO. "Here is a tv, look at the thin bezel, it has these apps, it's a little better than this tv but not as good as this one. Thanks for watching".rolleyes.gif
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post #3063 of 4276 Old 11-26-2013, 10:03 AM
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A bit off topic but for all of my fellow R550A owners. Tiger Direct has a WD Elements 2TB EHD listed today for $89.99. I have a 3 year old version and it has been a wonderful and reliable tool.
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post #3064 of 4276 Old 11-26-2013, 11:17 AM
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Both the 70" and 60" next to it are the Sony R550A ....fry's is just using non-branded stock photos most likely due to UPP pricing restrictions that won't allow them to specifically identify the exact models for sale.

I know the images are from generic tv's as they all look the same. But how do you know they are the Sony? cool.gif
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Originally Posted by kaochaos1 View Post

What do you guys think our chances are at getting Best Buy or Amazon to price match since this is a one day Black Friday sale? Also I'm thinking they are going to sell out really fast so I'm trying to find a plan B in case I don't get it at frys.

It's worth a shot. I called Fry's online customer service and they did not know the model number for what they have in the ad rolleyes.gif. The price will be visible online Thursday starting at 9:00am. I am planning on sending a request to price match to Amazon hoping that when they check it's the Sony and it's in stock.
Remember the sale will be online too so while it could run out in stores who knows online.
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post #3065 of 4276 Old 11-27-2013, 12:11 AM
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Hey guys, have you had any issues with burn-in on this TV?

I just tried out sonic 2 on retroarch at 120hz with black frame insertion turned on, i played for about 2 minutes total and this happened.

http://imgur.com/fImjyWA

that's a very bad sign given how brief i was playing and that the word SCORE is even readable in my crappy photo. I'm about ready to return this thing cause this is a pretty big deal breaker..
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post #3066 of 4276 Old 11-27-2013, 01:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Cucuy View Post

I know the images are from generic tv's as they all look the same. But how do you know they are the Sony? cool.gif
It's worth a shot. I called Fry's online customer service and they did not know the model number for what they have in the ad rolleyes.gif. The price will be visible online Thursday starting at 9:00am. I am planning on sending a request to price match to Amazon hoping that when they check it's the Sony and it's in stock.
Remember the sale will be online too so while it could run out in stores who knows online.

http://www.frys.com/ads/page115#AdNavi
This proves it's the sony for sure. Click the tv and it will say not available until Thanksgiving Day.
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post #3067 of 4276 Old 11-27-2013, 05:04 AM
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Originally Posted by gwimmel View Post

Hey guys, have you had any issues with burn-in on this TV?

I just tried out sonic 2 on retroarch at 120hz with black frame insertion turned on, i played for about 2 minutes total and this happened.

http://imgur.com/fImjyWA

that's a very bad sign given how brief i was playing and that the word SCORE is even readable in my crappy photo. I'm about ready to return this thing cause this is a pretty big deal breaker..

Wow, I don't own this TV, but I was thinking about buying one. I thought LED TVs were not subject to burn in--guess I was wrong. And correct me if I am wrong, but that doesn't bode well for watching sports/news channels such as ESPN or CNN that have static logos and bright info bars running across the screen. I thought that lack of burn in was one of the advantages of LED.

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post #3068 of 4276 Old 11-27-2013, 08:43 AM
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Honestly, it may be perfectly fine for watching movies and sports and stuff since it will probably be using that motion interpolation for 120hz, in my case it was displaying black frames every other frame with a 120hz signal from PC in order to reduce motion blur in older 60hz games, switching the pixels from black to color faster than it would in any "normal" situation

Perhaps someone else can shed more light on how susceptible it is to burn in under more normal situations.
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post #3069 of 4276 Old 11-27-2013, 08:43 AM
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I've been waiting to get the 70R550 at a good price for a long time.

So the Fry's thing is online too? See I work midnights so I'll be at work but I will be there well before midnight. As far as anyone knows this will go on sale online immediately at 12:00 a.m. friday?

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post #3070 of 4276 Old 11-27-2013, 08:54 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gwimmel View Post

Honestly, it may be perfectly fine for watching movies and sports and stuff since it will probably be using that motion interpolation for 120hz, in my case it was displaying black frames every other frame with a 120hz signal from PC in order to reduce motion blur in older 60hz games, switching the pixels from black to color faster than it would in any "normal" situation

Perhaps someone else can shed more light on how susceptible it is to burn in under more normal situations.

 

This TV will not display 1080p/120 via 120Hz input if what you want is frame-for-frame displayed what the PC is sending.  The TV will say 1080p/120Hz in the upper left corner, but that's only the receiving rate.  You need to run one of the various utilities to see if the TV is performing frame-dropping (AKA frame-discarding).  The R550A's will display 720p/120 however.


Grow milkweed. The Monarch Butterfly requires it, and its numbers are dwindling fast.
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post #3071 of 4276 Old 11-27-2013, 09:02 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gwimmel View Post

Hey guys, have you had any issues with burn-in on this TV?

I just tried out sonic 2 on retroarch at 120hz with black frame insertion turned on, i played for about 2 minutes total and this happened.

http://imgur.com/fImjyWA

that's a very bad sign given how brief i was playing and that the word SCORE is even readable in my crappy photo. I'm about ready to return this thing cause this is a pretty big deal breaker..

Wow, I don't own this TV, but I was thinking about buying one. I thought LED TVs were not subject to burn in--guess I was wrong. And correct me if I am wrong, but that doesn't bode well for watching sports/news channels such as ESPN or CNN that have static logos and bright info bars running across the screen. I thought that lack of burn in was one of the advantages of LED.

 

It's not a "burn in" in the traditional sense (CRT / Plasma / OLED).  There's no emitter that is wearing.  The only thing that can cause that is if the LCD grid has those pixels partially stuck so that they're unable to achieve their full light-blocking state (visualize this as them having their full range except for the bottom end).  I haven't seen anything close to that before so uniform over such a large area.  Very much a fluke IMO, or we'd be hearing about it endlessly in forums, and I just haven't.  In fact, when I saw the picture, I doubted it was an LCD at all it's so uncommon.


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post #3072 of 4276 Old 11-27-2013, 12:45 PM
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Originally Posted by tgm1024 View Post

This TV will not display 1080p/120 via 120Hz input if what you want is frame-for-frame displayed what the PC is sending.  The TV will say 1080p/120Hz in the upper left corner, but that's only the receiving rate.  You need to run one of the various utilities to see if the TV is performing frame-dropping (AKA frame-discarding).  The R550A's will display 720p/120 however.

That's what i was doing, i got the tv to successfully display 720p120 input from my TV and confirmed via frameskipping test on testufo that it was displaying all 120 frames.

As far as the burn-in goes, i was told it was just image retention and it will go away after watching something. I can also confirm retention like this doesn't happen in normal conditions, otherwise my desktop would be quite burned in by now, it only took 2 minutes of the black frame insertion to leave that SCORE on my tv.
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post #3073 of 4276 Old 11-27-2013, 12:55 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tgm1024 View Post

This TV will not display 1080p/120 via 120Hz input if what you want is frame-for-frame displayed what the PC is sending.  The TV will say 1080p/120Hz in the upper left corner, but that's only the receiving rate.  You need to run one of the various utilities to see if the TV is performing frame-dropping (AKA frame-discarding).  The R550A's will display 720p/120 however.

That's what i was doing, i got the tv to successfully display 720p120 input from my TV and confirmed via frameskipping test on testufo that it was displaying all 120 frames.

As far as the burn-in goes, i was told it was just image retention and it will go away after watching something. I can also confirm retention like this doesn't happen in normal conditions, otherwise my desktop would be quite burned in by now, it only took 2 minutes of the black frame insertion to leave that SCORE on my tv.

 

LCD's don't have "image retention" in the normal sense though.  I wonder what's happening.  In LCD's, the color of any subpixel is totally fixed as a filter (the backlight shines through it).  (Note: except for the weird quantum-dot/LCD hybrids like the higher end sonys).  The light shining through it is metered by the (essentially grayscale) LCD element.  The only way for image retention to happen is for the LCD crystal itself to remain oddly less responsive to change.  That's peculiar.  It's only something that very very few people ever see.

 

My old-ish (circa 2006) laptop is an LCD and it's using what I'm sure is among the cheapest screens around, especially by today's standards.  And I've left it on a static image overnight several times full blast (which only means the crystal is wide open...there's no burning from it) without screensaver or power-off, and I've *never* had image retention of any kind.

 

I think the TV is defective in some way.  And I'd like to know what's actually happening underneath it all to cause that on an LCD these days.  The LCD elements must become less responsive to change when left in one state for too long or something.


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post #3074 of 4276 Old 11-27-2013, 02:28 PM
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I've actually never had this happen before either on LCD's, but i've also never put them through something this rigorous. It's not static images that are causing this retention, but pixels changing color as fast as possible (from black to whatever color), faster than can even be achieved when sending it a 60hz signal.

At any rate, i'll probably be returning this tv as soon as i can, cause it doesn't seem to be very suitable for gaming. (60hz is never gonna look very good unless you turn on interpolation, in which case you get super nasty lag.)
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post #3075 of 4276 Old 11-27-2013, 03:55 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by gwimmel View Post

I've actually never had this happen before either on LCD's, but i've also never put them through something this rigorous. It's not static images that are causing this retention, but pixels changing color as fast as possible (from black to whatever color), faster than can even be achieved when sending it a 60hz signal.

At any rate, i'll probably be returning this tv as soon as i can, cause it doesn't seem to be very suitable for gaming. (60hz is never gonna look very good unless you turn on interpolation, in which case you get super nasty lag.)

 

Perhaps the back and forth action of the LCD element does what a pixel flipper does to "unstick" them when they're stuck (or dead), and effects their ability to block at the low end.  When it happens, is there any shadow of the words against a white background, or only when the background is black?


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post #3076 of 4276 Old 11-27-2013, 04:38 PM
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that's pretty cool what fry's is doing. Seeing as I work midnights and can't partake anyway. But click and reserve sounds great. At 9 a.m. thursday you can secure your TV as long as you go in and pick it up any time friday.

Does anyone know if frys.com charges sales tax online? I have a fry's store in my state so I'm guesing maybe yes? If that is the case, just better off to go just pick it up anyway.

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post #3077 of 4276 Old 11-27-2013, 04:59 PM
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Originally Posted by kaochaos1 View Post

http://www.frys.com/ads/page115#AdNavi
This proves it's the sony for sure. Click the tv and it will say not available until Thanksgiving Day.

biggrin.gif

We'll see what Amazon says. I should have waited a few days. mad.gif
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post #3078 of 4276 Old 11-27-2013, 05:27 PM
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There is a 70" tv in the frys Black Friday add for $1499. Can anyone tell from the pic if this is the sony kdl-70r550a that has been discussed on here? I've been waiting for it to be back on sale. Sorry don't know how to post a pic. smile.gif

Where did you see the $1499 price taqg? i checked the site and couldn't find it. And just checking is this for in store pickup only or will they ship too?

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post #3079 of 4276 Old 11-27-2013, 06:00 PM
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Where did you see the $1499 price taqg? i checked the site and couldn't find it. And just checking is this for in store pickup only or will they ship too?

http://www.theblackfriday.com/ads/fry/frys-black-friday-ad4.shtml
The $1499 is here. It's delivery only. No store pickup.
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post #3080 of 4276 Old 11-27-2013, 11:31 PM
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http://www.theblackfriday.com/ads/fry/frys-black-friday-ad4.shtml
The $1499 is here. It's delivery only. No store pickup.

from 20 miles of store. So technically your store still has to have it in stock, you are not buying from fry's warehouse or anything. As far as I can tell. Kinda bummer but considering it's $100 cheaper than the previous cheapest price, it's alright by me.

now I just hope I can nab one, and there are no problems with my debit card.

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post #3081 of 4276 Old 11-28-2013, 03:01 AM
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Does that mean you have to live within twenty miles of a store??? I just looked at their website and they have all kinds of messed up deals on TVs. Some are pickup only, some are delivery only?

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post #3082 of 4276 Old 11-28-2013, 05:05 AM
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no they charge $1.50 each additional mile.

I don't get it, all I know is I'm gonna have that website open and click into add to cart the second it goes on sale.

I don't know maybe it's $1599 if you chose pickup and $1499 if you chose delivery? I'd have to rent a truck to bring it home anyway so I might chose delivery which is cheaper in the first place.

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post #3083 of 4276 Old 11-28-2013, 05:17 AM
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no they charge $1.50 each additional mile.

I don't get it, all I know is I'm gonna have that website open and click into add to cart the second it goes on sale.

I don't know maybe it's $1599 if you chose pickup and $1499 if you chose delivery? I'd have to rent a truck to bring it home anyway so I might chose delivery which is cheaper in the first place.

Hhmm...... I'm only 300 miles from their nearest store so 300x1.50= $450 shipping??? Doesn't work out for me frown.gif .... Insanely jealous of those that live close enough to make this worthwhile. Stupid frys and stupid shipping ggggrrrrrr!

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post #3084 of 4276 Old 11-28-2013, 06:38 AM
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How does this 70 compare to vizio m 70??? Wanting to pull the trigger
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post #3085 of 4276 Old 11-28-2013, 08:38 AM
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How does this 70 compare to vizio m 70??? Wanting to pull the trigger

I haven't read a whole bunch on the vizio. But as far as I remember sony got a bit better marks for picture quality, black levels, 3D, etc. .

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post #3086 of 4276 Old 11-28-2013, 08:42 AM
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now when you click into the product page it lists the price of 1499. I wonder if I should keep it on that page or the prior page, or just refresh the page. I'm so antsy I just have been waiting a long time for this TV to hit this price point again.

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Denon x4000 (amazing sound correcting software)
Klipsch RF-62IIs (amazing horns)
Klipsch RC-62II (so clear)
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SVS PC12-NSD + Klipsch RW12d (so boom)
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post #3087 of 4276 Old 11-28-2013, 09:09 AM
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if you guys that own this set could help me out in this thread. I created a thread to compile all the sets Im currently looking into.

thanks in advance

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1502338/looking-to-buy-a-70-80-advice-welcome/0_100


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post #3088 of 4276 Old 11-28-2013, 09:13 AM
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Really ??? Fry's !!! rolleyes.gif Epic Fail. tongue.gif

The site must be getting bombarded with requests.

I have not been able to get in for the last 15 mins. mad.gif
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post #3089 of 4276 Old 11-28-2013, 09:20 AM
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hahah fry's servers are smashed. I managed to get one into my "cart" when 9:00 first came. I'm hoping that's enough that I'll actually get one. I'm not very hopeful until I see the thank you page. Was up midnight shift, but gotta stay up refreshing the page for who knows how long. 2 hours +?

Sony KDL-70R550A (passive 3D tv)
Denon x4000 (amazing sound correcting software)
Klipsch RF-62IIs (amazing horns)
Klipsch RC-62II (so clear)
Klipsch RS-41IIs (so full)
SVS PC12-NSD + Klipsch RW12d (so boom)
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post #3090 of 4276 Old 11-28-2013, 09:20 AM
VR3
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Have it my cart and can't checkout. Site keeps crashing. Sucks!
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