Official 2013 Sony R550A series TVs (KDL-xxR550A) --- 50", 60", and 70" - Page 121 - AVS Forum
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post #3601 of 4197 Old 01-14-2014, 11:44 AM
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Two questions...On the 50 inch.

1) I have CineMotion on Auto 2 - What's the difference between Auto 2 and Off? (Auto 1 had way too soap opera effect)

2) When you push on the right side of the screen on the corners, does it go in a little bit? (The left, center, bottom corners are all solid, but the right side goes in a little then pops back out)
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post #3602 of 4197 Old 01-14-2014, 12:14 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johndoejohndoes View Post

Two questions...On the 50 inch.

1) I have CineMotion on Auto 2 - What's the difference between Auto 2 and Off? (Auto 1 had way too soap opera effect)

2) When you push on the right side of the screen on the corners, does it go in a little bit? (The left, center, bottom corners are all solid, but the right side goes in a little then pops back out)

 

I'm sorry, I don't understand: "left, center, bottom corners"?

 

Using these screen bezel positions:

A-------B-------C
|               |
|               |
D               E
|               |
|               |
F-------G-------H

...which positions are doing what?

 

There was some talk about various TVs having bezels that popped out during shipping and that pressing them back inward until you hear/feel a "click" can be used to get rid of edgebleed.  But I'm curious---are you feeling the bezel actually loose in your hand?


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post #3603 of 4197 Old 01-14-2014, 03:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johndoejohndoes View Post

Two questions...On the 50 inch.

2) When you push on the right side of the screen on the corners, does it go in a little bit? (The left, center, bottom corners are all solid, but the right side goes in a little then pops back out)

If you are talking about the actual screen and not the bezel, LCD screens are almost never resistant to pressure unless they have a glass/plastic protective cover. It is never a good idea to push in on a LCD screen that is not protected. Damage to the individual cells can occur. You might end up with stuck or dead pixels. I would proceed with caution...
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post #3604 of 4197 Old 01-14-2014, 05:03 PM
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Originally Posted by tgm1024 View Post

I'm sorry, I don't understand: "left, center, bottom corners"?

Using these screen bezel positions:
Code:
A-------B-------C|               ||               |D               E|               ||               |F-------G-------H
...which positions are doing what?

There was some talk about various TVs having bezels that popped out during shipping and that pressing them back inward until you hear/feel a "click" can be used to get rid of edgebleed.  But I'm curious---are you feeling the bezel actually loose in your hand?
If I press gently on the screen near the areas C-E-H it gives in. When I let go it becomes flush with the bezel again. Like this with the vizio.

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1452199/official-vizio-m-series-razor-mxx1i-thread/6090#post_24042498

This was in a private message on the vizio - "Yup, it goes right back out after pushing it in. It doesn't negatively affect my viewing and I only notice it slightly when cleaning the screen, so I'm not bothered by it."

Basically my screen is flush with the bezels. When I press on the right side the screen goes inward a little bit and there's a seperation on .25 cms. When I let go and stop pushing in it pops (not literally) back into place flush with the bezel.
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post #3605 of 4197 Old 01-14-2014, 05:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Bama29 View Post

If you are talking about the actual screen and not the bezel, LCD screens are almost never resistant to pressure unless they have a glass/plastic protective cover. It is never a good idea to push in on a LCD screen that is not protected. Damage to the individual cells can occur. You might end up with stuck or dead pixels. I would proceed with caution...
Exactly. So does yours do this?
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post #3606 of 4197 Old 01-14-2014, 05:20 PM
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ATTENTION - if everyone with this tv could try this I'd really appreciate it.

I was gently cleaning the entire screen yesterday with LCD screen cleaner and cloth. As I was gently rubbing the far right side of the screen it pushed in a little bit. When I released the pressure it became flush with the bezel. Every other are was fine, it seems like the glue/whatever on the right side that connects the screen to the bezel was loose.

Can anyone confirm/deny their sets doing this.

I have a 50 inch by the way.
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post #3607 of 4197 Old 01-14-2014, 06:27 PM
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I have a slight edge light bleed - when I set power save to low it makes it better. Does putting power save on low affect anything else? Or does it just make my picture a little darker?

And when my screen goes black the TV turns off, how can I stop it from doing that?
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post #3608 of 4197 Old 01-14-2014, 10:32 PM
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Guys

 

  I am facing the classic horns of a dilemma. I am having a hard time deciding between the 70r550a (available here in costco) vs the 65w850a (Available everywhere with no discount whatsoever).

 

  I can describe myself as a medium grade videophile. I have a 37 inch lcd samsung and I can see now that the picture is not that great there. I would be using this tv mainly for Blu Ray and Netflix (Yup a cable cutter) . 

 

From what I have gathered from the internet (damn you CNET for not publishing the reviews for the 65w850a) is the following :-

 

70r550a :-

 

Cheaper, extra year of costco warranty , 5 inch of pleasure 

 

65w850a :-

 

Triluminos, local dimming, lesser size

 

I have not seen a place where I can see both these 2 side by side (and even if it had, I don't think I would be able to make out the difference by what crap they show in the showroom) .

 

What is your opinion ? is the 65w850a worth the price and lesser warranty and lesser size? Will I be able to perceive the difference while playing Blu Ray or Netflix?

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post #3609 of 4197 Old 01-15-2014, 07:36 AM
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Originally Posted by arijitnit View Post

I have not seen a place where I can see both these 2 side by side (and even if it had, I don't think I would be able to make out the difference by what crap they show in the showroom) .

What is your opinion ? is the 65w850a worth the price and lesser warranty and lesser size? Will I be able to perceive the difference while playing Blu Ray or Netflix?

In my local Best Buy (Canada) the 65W850A was $200 less than the 70R550A, both were on new years sales at the time. As you mentioned, comparing the two in store was nearly pointless. They weren't side by side and the content being shown on them was the store's demo loop... completely useless.

I'm still not entirely certain why I ended up going with the 70R550A but two things I really like about it: Passive 3D and it's 70". So far I am very happy with my choice but admit to some curiosity about what the true differences between those screen.

One thing to be aware of is that the 70R550A seems to have a lot of issues with flashlighting in the corners. Read back through nearly any portion of this thread and you will find it mentioned and that the more critical owners amongst us have exchanged their sets, or switched to entirely different models/brands over it. If the 65W850A doesn't suffer from these same issues then it might be the better choice if you're a critical viewer.

Either way, please report back on your findings. A number of my friends are also in the market for 65"+ screens and I'd love to be able to point them to good resources.
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post #3610 of 4197 Old 01-15-2014, 08:04 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by HellfireHD View Post

I'm still not entirely certain why I ended up going with the 70R550A but two things I really like about it: Passive 3D and it's 70".

 

You're not alone.  I waited until 2013 just so I could buy a combination Sony & Passive.  Passive is my deal-breaking requirement.  If I don't have 3D, and if it's not passive, I'm just not interested.

 

To the 3D extent, Vizio can go F themselves.  :)


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post #3611 of 4197 Old 01-15-2014, 08:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arijitnit View Post

Guys

  I am facing the classic horns of a dilemma. I am having a hard time deciding between the 70r550a (available here in costco) vs the 65w850a (Available everywhere with no discount whatsoever).

  I can describe myself as a medium grade videophile. I have a 37 inch lcd samsung and I can see now that the picture is not that great there. I would be using this tv mainly for Blu Ray and Netflix (Yup a cable cutter) . 

From what I have gathered from the internet (damn you CNET for not publishing the reviews for the 65w850a) is the following :-

70r550a :-

Cheaper, extra year of costco warranty , 5 inch of pleasure 

65w850a :-

Triluminos, local dimming, lesser size

I have not seen a place where I can see both these 2 side by side (and even if it had, I don't think I would be able to make out the difference by what crap they show in the showroom) .

What is your opinion ? is the 65w850a worth the price and lesser warranty and lesser size? Will I be able to perceive the difference while playing Blu Ray or Netflix?

Edit: I apologize. I originally quoted the wrong member by mistake and deleting the quote did not remove it... Hopefully it is now, but if not I really apologize. I believe it was HellfireHD I mistakenly quoted.
Also, I was able to import the image AVS uploaded demonstrating SONYs new "X-tended Dynamic" feature smile.gif
The 65W850a is actually discounted already by the manufacturer by I believe 700 dollars. So, is May not have an added discount at any particular store, but it is pretty significantly discounted.



The uniformity of the W850a is practically perfect with no blobs or spot lighting. Search this thread with "Uniformity" and you will see how the images are darker in some areas and lighter than others. The blacks on the W850a are completely "Black". One person had an image of their set running from the cable box & the left side was very dark, and the right side was almost so bright that the image was blown out.

This morning I read something that confirmed a theory of mine I was talking about last night. I was reading a review about resolution, and the main topic was about how 4K is useless unless well above 77" (it would take 130" in 4K to completely resolve what is at 65" 1080 at the same seating distance), but what was interesting is the editor mentioned "contrast is resolution". He explained that there were a bunch of photo professionals (however he worded it) viewing a 768 image (I believe that's the exact number he used) Vs 1080, and the TV with less pixels was thought by everyone to be a 1080 set, because the contrast was far better than the set running 1080 lines.

I was explaining the new "X-tended" dynamic range feature last night compare to basic lighting, and I explained how the bright areas are boosted & the dark areas are darkened, which to me in a sense is "higher resolution" to the eyes. I guess I think about it as having lesser vision and things blur together because without contacts I can't separate details of virtually anything I look at. In the same sense when shadow detail and brightness and darkness are not separated as well, you can't see the image as well, nor as far away. I wish I had the image from a thread one of the main AVS guys posted showing conventional versus X-tended (which I guess is either the same local dimming used with the W850a, or a different type - possibly more dimming zones). You can see almost every detail in the trees with X-tended, but with the side by side comparison the TV without X-tended was very hard to see in detail. Of course no one knows the settings they had on the 2 sets to show off the new technology, but I get the idea that I would probably be able to see the higher contrast ratio TV better than I could see a 4K image with not so dark "darks" & not so bright "brights". What I read this morning explains this is true. He continued to explain that contrast is resolution & he quoted that you would have to be "on top of" a 65" SONY 4K to see the improvement, and went to explain he sits 10ft from a 109" projection at 1080 and cannot see pixelation.

So, I would say local dimming/contrast accuracy is the very most important and noticeable factor, especially since we are specifically talking about 65" at 1080p.
I actually have a theory that SONY is running X-tended "PRO" which is 3x brighter (and darker where images should be darker) instead of the standard non-pro X-tended 2x (3x for Pro) is so that on the flagship 4K SONY people will actually think they are seeing 4K in all of its glory, when I imagine it will simply be the improvement in brightness and darkness (the accuracy of it), because they would have to make a 92" panel in order to resolve 4K to the point we can resolve 46" at 1080.

So, my verdict in opinion is that the W850a (and upcoming W950b) will be far superior to pretty much anything else anyone has ever seen (in 1080) when actually watching a BluRay, playing a game etc., and I'll see if I can get the image pasted in here from my iPad so you can see an example of the upcoming replacement for this sets technology (X-tended Dynamic Range). Also, owners of both the leading Plasma VT60 & the W850a have stated that the W850a was on par if not better than the King of all plasmas, but at this point of quality it's probably hard to tell which set would truly have better blacks. In other words from what I've read you can't beat the W850a for a 1080 signal, but some have said if you do not notice things likes blobs and flaws lighting that you will be perfectly happy with the R series if you're able to ignore the issues. Some r550 sets are better or worse than others. So you really don't know what you'll get until you set it up.



^^ This image is both SONY LED LCDs. One running the "X-tended" feature, and one not. All models running X-tended are up to 2x brighter except the top tier XBR 4K which will be running X-tended "PRO" and is up to a claimed 3x brighter than conventional sets, and 1x brighter than the other SONYs in the lineup that are running the "non-pro" X-tended feature.
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post #3612 of 4197 Old 01-15-2014, 08:17 AM
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Yes I agree, contrast ratio is among the most important. Bright areas very bright, and dark areas very dark. And when next to each other, no bleeding. Which is why I'd go with Panasonic's final plasma's if 3D weren't so important to me and that damn active 3D hurting my eyes. Bright vivid terrain next to ink black shadows behind them is an amazing site to see.
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post #3613 of 4197 Old 01-15-2014, 08:41 AM
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I saw one owner of both Panasonics top notch Plasma and the W850a, and he claims the SONY matches in contrast. I'm sure it's probably hard to discern the difference, but impressive coming from an owner of both sets. It would be interesting to see the 2014 technologies side by side. I'm very interested in how the regular X-tended and the "PRO" compare to Plasma.
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I'm feeling more comfortable keeping this set looking at 2014 TVs. As the only 70" passive one I've seen announced so far is sony's 4K. I doubt I'll get that for under $2000 any time soon, lol.

And as far as black levels, you are talking about Sony's 2013 65" active one right? Yeah I would really consider it if passive wasn't so damn important to me. I'm starting to be bothered less and less by the "light blob". Maybe the massaging is working, who knows. But I've been watching more 3D movies in my collection and it's gonna be hard to return this TV after having so much fun watching those 3D movies like The Wizard of Oz, Avatar, Oz the Great and Powerful, Jurassic Park. Especially with my new Klipsch soundstage and SVS subwoofer. My TV has never felt more movie like. There are still great 3D movies I look forward to like Frozen and Gravity coming out this spring.

This TV was said to have "very good" black levels. It has OK black levels. No TV with edge light without some kind of extra technology to combat that is going to have amazing black levels. No TV with flashlighting can have "very good" black levels.

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Yeah, unfortunately :/
The 2014 replacement being the W950b will be Passive & is the replacement for the Active 3D for the '13 W850a. I'm really hoping I can afford the '14 model but I'm still not sure if I'll be able or not. Hopefully toward the end of the year I can.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LookN2Find View Post

Yeah, unfortunately :/
The 2014 replacement being the W950b will be Passive & is the replacement for the Active 3D for the '13 W850a. I'm really hoping I can afford the '14 model but I'm still not sure if I'll be able or not. Hopefully toward the end of the year I can.

Actually for me it's "fortunately". Because it kind of forces me to feel better about keeping the R550a, lol. Seeing as there won't be a TV in the same tier/price range that has just ever so better blacks/uniformity/style etc. . I feel better knowing there isn't a TV in 2014 that will make me go, "damn, shoulda waited". Not gonna want to spend $3500++ for a passive 70" even if it IS 4K. I can afford it, but it would wipe me out. And I'm that's not smart.
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post #3617 of 4197 Old 01-15-2014, 10:55 AM
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I just got this TV and no one seems to want to help me answer these questions.

1) I have a slight edge light bleed - when I set power save to low it makes it better. Does putting power save on low affect anything else? Or does it just make my picture a little darker?

2) When my screen goes black the TV turns off, how can I stop it from doing that?

3) I was gently cleaning the entire screen yesterday with LCD screen cleaner and cloth. As I was gently rubbing the far right side of the screen it pushed in a little bit. When I released the pressure it became flush with the bezel. Every other are was fine, it seems like the glue/whatever on the right side that connects the screen to the bezel was loose. Can anyone confirm/deny their sets doing this.

I'd really appreciate some feedback here.
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post #3618 of 4197 Old 01-15-2014, 11:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johndoejohndoes View Post

I just got this TV and no one seems to want to help me answer these questions.

1) I have a slight edge light bleed - when I set power save to low it makes it better. Does putting power save on low affect anything else? Or does it just make my picture a little darker?

2) When my screen goes black the TV turns off, how can I stop it from doing that?

3) I was gently cleaning the entire screen yesterday with LCD screen cleaner and cloth. As I was gently rubbing the far right side of the screen it pushed in a little bit. When I released the pressure it became flush with the bezel. Every other are was fine, it seems like the glue/whatever on the right side that connects the screen to the bezel was loose. Can anyone confirm/deny their sets doing this.

I'd really appreciate some feedback here.

You only posted it 16 hours ago. No need to get fussy, you could simply just ask again. I guarantee you someone will get to it. Lots of different discussions going on but there are enough nice people around to help you.

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post #3619 of 4197 Old 01-15-2014, 11:10 AM
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Originally Posted by johndoejohndoes View Post

I just got this TV and no one seems to want to help me answer these questions.

1) I have a slight edge light bleed - when I set power save to low it makes it better. Does putting power save on low affect anything else? Or does it just make my picture a little darker?

2) When my screen goes black the TV turns off, how can I stop it from doing that?

3) I was gently cleaning the entire screen yesterday with LCD screen cleaner and cloth. As I was gently rubbing the far right side of the screen it pushed in a little bit. When I released the pressure it became flush with the bezel. Every other are was fine, it seems like the glue/whatever on the right side that connects the screen to the bezel was loose. Can anyone confirm/deny their sets doing this.

I'd really appreciate some feedback here.

1) power saving makes things darker because it's using less power to light up your TV, which is why you do not see to much edge light bleeding, because the amount of light being outputted is less than normal.

2) what are you watching? what source (cable/netflix/dvd/bd) / brand (sony player)? why is your screen going black? did you stop playing something (bd/dvd)? or did it go to a dark picture during a movie which shut your tv off? Are you sure the TV isn't turning off that causes the screen to turn black?

3) mine does not do this, but I think someone right above your post 16hrs ago was talking about this. Maybe it was you? or someone else that reported this. I do not remember.
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post #3620 of 4197 Old 01-15-2014, 11:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johndoejohndoes View Post

Two questions...On the 50 inch.

1) I have CineMotion on Auto 2 - What's the difference between Auto 2 and Off? (Auto 1 had way too soap opera effect)

2) When you push on the right side of the screen on the corners, does it go in a little bit? (The left, center, bottom corners are all solid, but the right side goes in a little then pops back out)

just think of it like this
off = off
auto 2 = low
auto 1 = high

the difference is what you can notice.
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post #3621 of 4197 Old 01-15-2014, 11:29 AM
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Originally Posted by bowlopho View Post

1) power saving makes things darker because it's using less power to light up your TV, which is why you do not see to much edge light bleeding, because the amount of light being outputted is less than normal.

2) what are you watching? what source (cable/netflix/dvd/bd) / brand (sony player)? why is your screen going black? did you stop playing something (bd/dvd)? or did it go to a dark picture during a movie which shut your tv off? Are you sure the TV isn't turning off that causes the screen to turn black?

3) mine does not do this, but I think someone right above your post 16hrs ago was talking about this. Maybe it was you? or someone else that reported this. I do not remember.
1) So other than making the screen a little darker it doesn't affect performance or anything else? (It makes it a little darker but the screen bleed in the bottom corner looks significantly better without compromising the picture on Low)

2) When I'm watching my verizon fios and pause it when the screen is entirely black, when the menu bar disappears and the screen is black the backlight turns off. When I hit a button on the controller it turns back on. I guess it's like it's going to sleep or something, but instead of dimming, it turns off.

3) That was me. Dang this is crazy, the picture doesn't look bad, funny thing, the left side of the screen is where the light bleeds occur and it stays connected to the bezel. The part that pushes in on the right side a little bit has no light bleed.
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Originally Posted by bowlopho View Post

just think of it like this
off = off
auto 2 = low
auto 1 = high

the difference is what you can notice.
I'm assuming Auto 1 is 120hz and Off is 60hz, just wondering if Auto 2 meant something specific.
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post #3622 of 4197 Old 01-15-2014, 11:57 AM
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when in power saving mode (IE making it darker) you lose a lot of the vibrant color / brightness of the TV. And also contrast ratio because not only are the darkers darker but the brighters are darker too. To me that is not worth it just to remove a bit of the flashlighting. Basically, you get less flashlighting but the image becomes crappier.
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post #3623 of 4197 Old 01-15-2014, 02:33 PM
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when in power saving mode (IE making it darker) you lose a lot of the vibrant color / brightness of the TV. And also contrast ratio because not only are the darkers darker but the brighters are darker too. To me that is not worth it just to remove a bit of the flashlighting. Basically, you get less flashlighting but the image becomes crappier.
Thanks. I'll switch it back to Off.

I did notice on Low though, that it barely gets darker. It's almost unnoticeable, but I don't want to mess up the other settings.
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post #3624 of 4197 Old 01-15-2014, 02:59 PM
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Actually for me it's "fortunately". Because it kind of forces me to feel better about keeping the R550a, lol. Seeing as there won't be a TV in the same tier/price range that has just ever so better blacks/uniformity/style etc. . I feel better knowing there isn't a TV in 2014 that will make me go, "damn, shoulda waited". Not gonna want to spend $3500++ for a passive 70" even if it IS 4K. I can afford it, but it would wipe me out. And I'm that's not smart.

Good call. That's very fortunate! I wanted that 70" so bad, especially for the price & passive. I saw a ton of people happy with it and then got consumer shyness when I started seeing pics on here thinking "Ugh... Knowing my luck I would get the most clouded set out of anyone in the entire forum". Haha! Yes, I'm paranoid...
It's only unfortunate for me, because I pay too much attention to detail (raised in a bodyshop always making sure sheet metal is perfectly straight, colors perfectly match & blend & buffing out orange peel in the paint to the point it is a glass surface smoother than the factory can offer). So, if this years W850a were passive I'd jump for it at it's current $2499 retail, but now that I know about the further improvement on local dimming on an already near perfect screen, my misfortune is I feel compelled to wait and pay the asking sticker for the revision of it. It stinks. I wish I didn't care so much about uniformity. Having a 70" for 2K is priceless. In all honesty if I'd pull my head from between my legs and just try the R series I would probably love it. All I do is watch HD movies, stream Netflix & Amazon Prime, and play the occasional video game. You do have a great TV. If these new ones are further improved I may go for the larger size & skip the high dollar 65" smile.gif
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post #3625 of 4197 Old 01-15-2014, 03:34 PM
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Thanks. I'll switch it back to Off.

I did notice on Low though, that it barely gets darker. It's almost unnoticeable, but I don't want to mess up the other settings.
If you haven't tried this, turn off the power save and try several of the suggested settings in the front of this thread. I doubt if more than 1% here have their power save set to on. It just sucks the life out of the picture. I does make Sony look good though (energy consumption) and that's the only reason it's even there.
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post #3626 of 4197 Old 01-15-2014, 07:39 PM
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Yeah, unfortunately :/
The 2014 replacement being the W950b will be Passive & is the replacement for the Active 3D for the '13 W850a.

Say again, the what is replacing the what?

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post #3627 of 4197 Old 01-15-2014, 09:13 PM
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Say again, the what is replacing the what?

The W850a is being replaced by the W950b for 2014, as the W850a was the flagship 65" SONY for 1080 in '13, but the W950b is the highest end model coming for 2014 in 1080 with X-tended Dynamic etc.
It may be mid year since a lot of 2014 model are listed for preorder but neither the 55 or 65W950b are showing any info yet.
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post #3628 of 4197 Old 01-15-2014, 11:07 PM
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So the 65W950b will be passive 3D? 2k or 4k? Any guesses as to it's MSRP?

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post #3629 of 4197 Old 01-16-2014, 06:19 AM
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If you haven't tried this, turn off the power save and try several of the suggested settings in the front of this thread. I doubt if more than 1% here have their power save set to on. It just sucks the life out of the picture. I does make Sony look good though (energy consumption) and that's the only reason it's even there.
ive searched through 20 pages and can't find any settings.

I use the standard default setting, is there any way to make the picture not as bright to hide the screen bleed? Without compromising the overall picture?
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post #3630 of 4197 Old 01-16-2014, 08:55 AM
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ive searched through 20 pages and can't find any settings.

I use the standard default setting, is there any way to make the picture not as bright to hide the screen bleed? Without compromising the overall picture?

look at the first post in this thread.
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