Official 2013 Sony R550A series TVs (KDL-xxR550A) --- 50", 60", and 70" - Page 13 - AVS Forum
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post #361 of 4285 Old 05-01-2013, 05:17 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Brodee77 View Post

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Originally Posted by Sgooter View Post

Bleeding is the condition in which some portion of the backlilght shines through around the edge/s of the screen. Is this indeed what you are experiencing or something different?

I may have misspoke... When I said "bleeding," I was referring to the colors bleeding together while watching anything live action as opposed to animated. There is no backlight shining through or around the edges. The colors are bleeding together along with severe motion blur when watching live action programs. Like I said - it's probably a user error? Obviously the terminology is!

Phew! smile.gif

You said earlier that you turned off trumotion.....did you mean Motion Flow? Is the motion blur the same or worse with the setting on and off?

As far as the color bleed....is it a particular color?

Beware the statistical correlations that sound like they're indicative of something. Drowning deaths are tightly correlated to ice cream consumption. In fact, be wary of any statistic that is stated as if it comes with a self-evident conclusion: there is no such thing.
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post #362 of 4285 Old 05-01-2013, 05:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Brodee77 View Post

I may have misspoke... When I said "bleeding," I was referring to the colors bleeding together while watching anything live action as opposed to animated. There is no backlight shining through or around the edges. The colors are bleeding together along with severe motion blur when watching live action programs. Like I said - it's probably a user error? Obviously the terminology is!
What I have noticed in fast action scenes, including sports, is that the background image can be blurry but the foreground is still clear. This is most evident when the camera is tight on a player running fast down the court: the fans are blurred but the player is clear - all due to the camera panning so fast. IOW, it's the camera and not the TV, in this case.

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post #363 of 4285 Old 05-01-2013, 05:30 PM
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What you are probably seeing is macro blocking if it's really only noticeable on your Dish feed. Cable and Satellite feeds are heavily compressed, compression and motion are not friends and many people mistakenly blame their tv instead of their source. However if you see it on Blu-rays or other high quality sources perhaps you should exchange your set.
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post #364 of 4285 Old 05-01-2013, 05:34 PM
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Thanks Bob - I'll try that and report back, though I thought I did have all processing off specifically because I hate the SOE.
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post #365 of 4285 Old 05-01-2013, 05:37 PM
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Turning motionflow on/off has not changed he severity of the blurring. And it's not a particular color that bleeds/blurs - it's all of them.

I'll play with it (the TV) for a while when I get home and report back later. Thanks for the suggestions!
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post #366 of 4285 Old 05-01-2013, 05:39 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Caleb Lev Arn View Post

Panasonic LED tv's have never had bleeding or flash lighting in my past testing.

I've made up my mind now and I'm going to get another panasonic led tv.

E60......ET60.......WT60......I haven't decided yet.

Keep in mind that for 60" you will need the DT. And the ET & E don't have local dimming. Nor any dimming actually. And the E is 2D only.

And the 60" DT is > $2600.

Aye yi yi.

Beware the statistical correlations that sound like they're indicative of something. Drowning deaths are tightly correlated to ice cream consumption. In fact, be wary of any statistic that is stated as if it comes with a self-evident conclusion: there is no such thing.
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post #367 of 4285 Old 05-01-2013, 06:07 PM
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Is anybody aware of edge lit local dimming technology being implemented by any manufacture at this time? If Vizio can actually get this feature to work and work well then they may rule this segment. I understand that the concept involves local zone type dimming (16 zones I think). It's been tried in the past with no success.
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post #368 of 4285 Old 05-01-2013, 06:11 PM
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Brodee77,

Give my color numbers a try. I realize they may not be a perfect match for your situation, but they won't be oversaturated and it sounds like that may be the issue. You can just reset after you confirm that is or isn't the issue, if you want.

Bob

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post #369 of 4285 Old 05-01-2013, 06:23 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by andy sullivan View Post

Is anybody aware of edge lit local dimming technology being implemented by any manufacture at this time? If Vizio can actually get this feature to work and work well then they may rule this segment. I understand that the concept involves local zone type dimming (16 zones I think). It's been tried in the past with no success.

Tried in the past with no success by whom? It's been a common feature in many higher end sets for a long time, and it works very well.

Beware the statistical correlations that sound like they're indicative of something. Drowning deaths are tightly correlated to ice cream consumption. In fact, be wary of any statistic that is stated as if it comes with a self-evident conclusion: there is no such thing.
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post #370 of 4285 Old 05-01-2013, 06:34 PM
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FWIW: The R550A series TVs are not yet fully supported in the Harmony universal remote's online device database. However, I just programmed my H1 using a similar Sony 3D Smart TV (KDL-55HX850) from their database. It's working fine and fully integrated (in harmony) with the other 14 pieces of A/V equipment in my HT. Neither the Harmony remote nor the -70R550A can tell the difference. Shh...don't tell them.

Can you (or someone) confirm that the 550 supports discrete remote codes for power on/off and input selections? I know Sony is generally good about such things but would like to make sure. I have a URC instead of Harmony and the URC software has discrete codes for 55HX850 so it seems likely but it would be nice to get confirmation. :-)
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post #371 of 4285 Old 05-01-2013, 07:12 PM
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crabbz,

Discrete power off/on, yes. As to input, I've only been able to pull up an interface screen and choose by multiple press or up/down arrows, but I'm still experimenting

Bob

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post #372 of 4285 Old 05-01-2013, 07:59 PM
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Yes: the R550A supports discrete codes for Power On, Power Off, and for each of these Inputs: HDMI 1 thru 4, Video, Tuner, Antenna. I did not find a discrete command to switch the TV to a PC/computer mode. Also, these are the only discretes I tested.

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post #373 of 4285 Old 05-01-2013, 10:38 PM
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Originally Posted by tgm1024 View Post

Tried in the past with no success by whom? It's been a common feature in many higher end sets for a long time, and it works very well.
Edge lit local dimming has hardly been a common feature and incorporated in no high end sets that I'm aware of. Full-array local dimming could be found in Sony flagship models and the Sharp Elite sets but the Elite is gone and I believe so are the Full-array local dimming Sony's. Actually finding a non-local dimming full-array model is difficult. Perhaps the Sharp 80LE632 is the only one being built (maybe the 844 also). According to David Katzemer (CNET) Samsung and LG along with Sony built a few models 2 or 3 years ago using edge lit local dimming and the Samsung and the LG demonstrated blooming and never matched the PQ of full-array local dimming. He didn't mention how the Sony stacked up. He mentioned the model numbers but I don't recall them right now. I don't think there are any 2013 models using full-array local dimming. Why, because full array is more expensive to manufacture and local dimming makes it even more expensive. I guess they felt that the market for $5,000+ TV's wasn't worth the outlay, especially with OLED around the corner.
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post #374 of 4285 Old 05-02-2013, 03:42 AM
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Originally Posted by dctrombly View Post

I would keep an eye out for the 2013 Vizio M series TVs. They have mostly identical technology on paper compared to these 550s (edge lit with local dimming, passive 3D) + a TRUE 240Hz panel. They should be out in May and the 70" will have a street price around 2k (MSRP $2500)...
Looks very interesting, so I read some info on Vizio's M series; let's hope it delivers on the promises. There's already an AVS thread for the M series, and it looks like it will be out in mid-June.

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post #375 of 4285 Old 05-02-2013, 07:26 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andy sullivan View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by tgm1024 View Post

Tried in the past with no success by whom? It's been a common feature in many higher end sets for a long time, and it works very well.
Edge lit local dimming has hardly been a common feature and incorporated in no high end sets that I'm aware of.

Yeah, I'm overstating it, I was mostly thinking of full array and using "common" incorrectly. I didn't mean it as "most". But you're overstating it as well if you're implying that it doesn't exist readily.

These 2013 LG's are edge lit and claim local dimming
http://www.lg.com/us/tvs/lg-55LA8600-led-tv (scroll to the bottom)
http://www.lg.com/us/tvs/lg-47GA7900-led-tv
(there are others)

In fact the LG "LED Plus with local dimming" is supposed to mean just that. You'll see it in 2012 and earlier as well:
http://www.lg.com/us/tvs/lg-55LM7600-led-tv
(etc.)

Sony has been using the phrase "Dynamic Edge LED" and coupling it with "local dimming" for a while. Not always though. Here's a sony link explaining what the term means:
http://www.sony-mea.com/microsite/bravia/led-backlit-lcd-tv-picture-quality.html
"Dynamic Edge LED
Save energy and experience contrast that's off the charts.

Contrast is the difference between a good picture and a great picture. By varying the LED backlight, Sony is able to achieve a contrast so high, it can't be measured. LEDs also give better colours, a thinner profile, and higher energy efficiency when compared with fluorescent tubes. Sony's Dynamic Edge LED Backlight uses local dimming to achieve an infinite dynamic contrast ratio."

The 2013 Sony 900A line
http://store.sony.com/p/Sony-Internet-TV/en/p/KDL55W900A (look in 2 places: you'll see "Dynamic Edge LED Backlight" and "Night scenes are especially spectacular, composed of breathtaking blacks and stark contrast created by local dimming LED lighting."

Here's a wild-card that I'm not sure of: The panasonic WT / DT line. They employ "intelligent local dimming", but I can't find a spec sheet that declares them full array or edge. I had thought I read that their "clear panel pros" were all alpha-IPS Edges, but I can't find that right now.

I could dig a little more if you want, but I've been bumping into the notion outside of Samsung for a while. It might be very limited in zoning, but they've been there.

Beware the statistical correlations that sound like they're indicative of something. Drowning deaths are tightly correlated to ice cream consumption. In fact, be wary of any statistic that is stated as if it comes with a self-evident conclusion: there is no such thing.
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post #376 of 4285 Old 05-02-2013, 07:38 AM
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Is BestBuy ever going to get this TV? It has been on there website going on 2 weeks but when you try to buy it you can't.
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post #377 of 4285 Old 05-02-2013, 07:51 AM - Thread Starter
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Is BestBuy ever going to get this TV? It has been on there website going on 2 weeks but when you try to buy it you can't.

Yeah. Dunno. I'd love to buy it from bestbuy.com to get the 7% Upromise $$. But I might just say screw it, only to have Amazon deliver it the same day it goes on sale.

Beware the statistical correlations that sound like they're indicative of something. Drowning deaths are tightly correlated to ice cream consumption. In fact, be wary of any statistic that is stated as if it comes with a self-evident conclusion: there is no such thing.
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post #378 of 4285 Old 05-02-2013, 08:01 AM
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Originally Posted by tgm1024 View Post


Here's a wild-card that I'm not sure of: The panasonic WT / DT line. They employ "intelligent local dimming", but I can't find a spec sheet that declares them full array or edge. I had thought I read that their "clear panel pros" were all alpha-IPS Edges, but I can't find that right now.

Man, I looked all over for the same info on the Panasonic DT60. Looks to be an awesome TV, but I'd like to know more about it. I'm guessing it's either edge-lit, or possibly even direct lit. It's too thin to be full array.
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post #379 of 4285 Old 05-02-2013, 09:04 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Sgooter View Post

I bought my R550A in a local Costco store, but I haven't seen one on their web site. BB says they will be in the store...soon.


What did you pay (not including tax)?????

Beware the statistical correlations that sound like they're indicative of something. Drowning deaths are tightly correlated to ice cream consumption. In fact, be wary of any statistic that is stated as if it comes with a self-evident conclusion: there is no such thing.
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post #380 of 4285 Old 05-02-2013, 09:40 AM
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What did you pay (not including tax)?????
Sent u PM.

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post #381 of 4285 Old 05-02-2013, 11:37 AM - Thread Starter
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What did you pay (not including tax)?????
Sent u PM.

Thanks man.

Well, I bought the 60" beast----getting it monday. We'll see if I feel miserable, stupid, cheated, happy, or whatever combination of those are possible.

Beware the statistical correlations that sound like they're indicative of something. Drowning deaths are tightly correlated to ice cream consumption. In fact, be wary of any statistic that is stated as if it comes with a self-evident conclusion: there is no such thing.
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post #382 of 4285 Old 05-02-2013, 12:31 PM
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Thanks man.
Well, I bought the 60" beast----getting it monday. We'll see if I feel miserable, stupid, cheated, happy, or whatever combination of those are possible.
Too funny! I look forward to reading your impressions of the beast.

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post #383 of 4285 Old 05-02-2013, 02:15 PM
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I'm about to purchase the 60" of this TV tonight. I have an old KDS-R60XBR2 rear projection set and it appears to have finally suffered from the long known optical block problem. I'm getting yellow lines and spots everywhere and it hasn't gone away.

I contacted Sony and they offered me the EX model from last year first but I pushed them to give me the R550A since I read some pretty bad reviews about the EX series of TVs. They offered me a pretty great price too so it's too good to pass up. I tried to get them to offer me the 70" for a discount but they stated that "due to inventory constraints...blah blah blah" they could only offer me the same size TV that I currently have.

Hopefully I'll be able to add to the reviews on this TV shortly.
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post #384 of 4285 Old 05-02-2013, 03:41 PM - Thread Starter
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I'm about to purchase the 60" of this TV tonight. I have an old KDS-R60XBR2 rear projection set and it appears to have finally suffered from the long known optical block problem. I'm getting yellow lines and spots everywhere and it hasn't gone away.

I contacted Sony and they offered me the EX model from last year first but I pushed them to give me the R550A since I read some pretty bad reviews about the EX series of TVs. They offered me a pretty great price too so it's too good to pass up. I tried to get them to offer me the 70" for a discount but they stated that "due to inventory constraints...blah blah blah" they could only offer me the same size TV that I currently have.

What a load of crap. LOL.....my 6 and 8 year old could see through that one. "Inventory constraints". {chuckle} Oh yeah, "sorry, but all of Sony is just down to the very last few 70" tv's...."
Quote:
Hopefully I'll be able to add to the reviews on this TV shortly.

I envy the RP guys actually. It's the guys coming from CRTs and Plasmas that are horrified by the off-angle problem of LCD. But not the RP guys. They've been used to fighting a much tougher version of that particular war for some time. smile.gif
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Beware the statistical correlations that sound like they're indicative of something. Drowning deaths are tightly correlated to ice cream consumption. In fact, be wary of any statistic that is stated as if it comes with a self-evident conclusion: there is no such thing.
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post #385 of 4285 Old 05-02-2013, 05:01 PM
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When I started having problems with my 60A3000 Sony offered me a 55" or a 60" in a couple of different models. I did a fair amount of research and concluded that they were giving me very good prices. A situation came up causing me to pass but I did find out the price was quite a bit below cost to a dealer.
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post #386 of 4285 Old 05-02-2013, 05:22 PM - Thread Starter
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When I started having problems with my 60A3000 Sony offered me a 55" or a 60" in a couple of different models. I did a fair amount of research and concluded that they were giving me very good prices. A situation came up causing me to pass but I did find out the price was quite a bit below cost to a dealer.

Is this with an extended warranty directly from Sony, or just within the normal warranty?

Beware the statistical correlations that sound like they're indicative of something. Drowning deaths are tightly correlated to ice cream consumption. In fact, be wary of any statistic that is stated as if it comes with a self-evident conclusion: there is no such thing.
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post #387 of 4285 Old 05-02-2013, 06:48 PM
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Is this with an extended warranty directly from Sony, or just within the normal warranty?
The TV was 6.5 years old and started to have some weird vertical dotted lines about 6" apart and 15" long in the middle of the screen (black). I e-mailed the Sony site for optic block problems (I was aware of this site for a long time) and they immediately contacted me offering two different middle of the road models. The 55" was $475 (non LED) and the 60" was $625 (LED) delivered but not including tax. They shipped directly from the factory (I was told). I looked at both sets at Best Buy and they looked very nice. Both sets were at least 50% higher at BB and Amazon than the price I was given by Sony. Not sure why they were this nice but it left a very positive impression on my wife and I. The 60A3000 was way way out of warranty and also well beyond the time limit that Sony had actually said they would do something about this optic block problem. Overall I would think this program cost them quite a bit of money but gained them quite a bit of respect. Especially from me, and I didn't even take advantage of it. I guess action speaks louder than words.
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post #388 of 4285 Old 05-02-2013, 08:27 PM
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Some pics of the arrival and install.









Full slideshow: http://s1117.photobucket.com/user/stewartthomasj/slideshow/KDL70R550A

Had it for over a week and I've hardly had time to play with it at all yet. Try to get some more/better pictures later. These were just super quick. The most amazing thing to me is the size difference between a 60" and 70" (this is a 70, upgraded from a 60) - hardly can tell much of a difference in my room.

The other thing is the comparison of Passive vs Active 3D. Consensus from the demo group who watched a couple snippets was that the Passive is easier on the eyes (both from lighter glasses and less flicker) than our Active set upstairs. I think I can tell a resolution difference though that the Active looks clearer/better. But between charging the glasses, getting out the transmitter, the weight, and the flicker - we hardly ever watched 3D. With this passive set and the light/cheap glasses I can envision us watching more.
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post #389 of 4285 Old 05-03-2013, 05:56 AM
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How thick is the bezel? I can't find that info anywhere.

What is your viewing distance and do you think it is enough?

I have about 10.5ft from couch to tv, I am wondering how a 70" would work. I know that all of the standards say I should be fine, I just wanted to get some real life feed back.

Thanks!
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post #390 of 4285 Old 05-03-2013, 06:14 AM - Thread Starter
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How thick is the bezel? I can't find that info anywhere.

What is your viewing distance and do you think it is enough?

I have about 10.5ft from couch to tv, I am wondering how a 70" would work. I know that all of the standards say I should be fine, I just wanted to get some real life feed back.

Thanks!

Here's what many folks do:

Go to a site like this one to calculate your screen width and height. Compare it to another calculation side by side with overlapping image if you like.

Be aware, this will be without bezel (and border, if you don't include the border as part of the bezel).

If you have large pieces of paper, tape a bunch together on the floor to be those exact dimensions. Put that on the wall.

OR

Put painters tape on the wall showing the corners of those dimensions. This is a good trick, because the tape itself can be viewed as the border & bezel (use 3/4" or 1" tape), and your eyes will quickly see what it looks like. Don't bother marking more than the 5" or so of each edge of the each corner----your brain will immediately "draw" the line between the corners for you if lined up well enough.

I find the first trick easier if you are trying to place the thing around looking for the best spot. The 2nd trick is best if you know exactly where it's going, just not how big.

NOTE: A tv on a wall will appear slightly smaller than a TV 3 feet in front of the wall on a stand.

Beware the statistical correlations that sound like they're indicative of something. Drowning deaths are tightly correlated to ice cream consumption. In fact, be wary of any statistic that is stated as if it comes with a self-evident conclusion: there is no such thing.
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