Official 2013 Sony R550A series TVs (KDL-xxR550A) --- 50", 60", and 70" - Page 133 - AVS Forum
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post #3961 of 4313 Old 04-14-2014, 07:13 PM
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Originally Posted by HGN2001 View Post

The technology of LCD/LED screens is way different than the old CRT screens. Film is naturally juddery with its 24 frames-per-second rate and these new screens are showing it full-on - and at screen sizes unheard of in the CRT days. So the smoothing technology attempts to rectify it, but it gives films a Soap Opera look - as if it were shot on videotape with its near-live motions.

It's one of those damned if you do or damned if you don't situations. You fix the judder of film by turning the motion technology on, and you have to live with film not looking like film anymore.

Try leaving the settings one way or another and try to get used to it.

Harry

Last two questions.

1) If I have motionflow on standard but play a blu ray where it shows 1080p/24f will the 24f override the standard motionflow setting?

2) if I turn motionflow off is it only refreshing at 60hz or is it still refreshing at 120hz?

Thanks
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post #3962 of 4313 Old 04-14-2014, 09:53 PM
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To be honest. I like the soap opera effect.
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post #3963 of 4313 Old 04-15-2014, 05:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johndoejohndoes View Post

Last two questions.

1) If I have motionflow on standard but play a blu ray where it shows 1080p/24f will the 24f override the standard motionflow setting?

2) if I turn motionflow off is it only refreshing at 60hz or is it still refreshing at 120hz?

Thanks

1) If motionflow is enabled, it works regardless of the content, meaning it's applying motion interpolation whether it's broadcast TV or a blu-ray film.

2) All TVs refresh at their native framerate i.e. it's independent of interpolation. A 120hz TV always refreshes at 120hz - it will display each frame of a 60fps source twice, each frame of a 24fps source 5 times to achieve 120hz, etc... motionflow simply applies interpolation between frames to 'smooth' out the motion, instead of repeating the exact frame.
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post #3964 of 4313 Old 04-15-2014, 08:09 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HGN2001 View Post

The technology of LCD/LED screens is way different than the old CRT screens. Film is naturally juddery with its 24 frames-per-second rate and these new screens are showing it full-on - and at screen sizes unheard of in the CRT days. So the smoothing technology attempts to rectify it, but it gives films a Soap Opera look - as if it were shot on videotape with its near-live motions.

It's one of those damned if you do or damned if you don't situations. You fix the judder of film by turning the motion technology on, and you have to live with film not looking like film anymore.

Try leaving the settings one way or another and try to get used to it.

Harry

 

As you know, the issue is far more complicated than that.  LCD's need to defeat the sample-and-hold nature of the display to reduce the persistence.  That persistence causes a smear against the retina (motion blur).  Even if you had no interpolation at all, with pulse technology a 24 fps viewing can be very comfortable to watch.  Interpolation serves two purposes: it provides a fake higher frame rate to reduce the strobe effect of items flying across the screen, but it most importantly reduces the persistence of any given frame.  But even then it's not enough: unless that interpolation rate is unGodly high (not currently achievable), a pulse mechanism is required.


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post #3965 of 4313 Old 04-15-2014, 01:41 PM
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Originally Posted by tezster View Post

1) If motionflow is enabled, it works regardless of the content, meaning it's applying motion interpolation whether it's broadcast TV or a blu-ray film.

2) All TVs refresh at their native framerate i.e. it's independent of interpolation. A 120hz TV always refreshes at 120hz - it will display each frame of a 60fps source twice, each frame of a 24fps source 5 times to achieve 120hz, etc... motionflow simply applies interpolation between frames to 'smooth' out the motion, instead of repeating the exact frame.
Is this TV 120HZ refresh rate?
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post #3966 of 4313 Old 04-16-2014, 04:26 AM
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Question:

How to I make my tv play like it has the soap opera effect going on.

I know when I first got it, and played around with it, it seemed to be doing it. But now that I feel like I have it set how I like it. I can't make it do the soap opera effect again.

Thanks...
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post #3967 of 4313 Old 04-16-2014, 04:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by harrybnbad View Post

Question:

How to I make my tv play like it has the soap opera effect going on.

I know when I first got it, and played around with it, it seemed to be doing it. But now that I feel like I have it set how I like it. I can't make it do the soap opera effect again.

Thanks...

SOAP OPERA EFFECT on Sony R550a series:
Go to the second page of Settings>Picture
Set Motionflow to High
Set Cinemotion to Auto 1

Film-based content that's running at the proper speed will then look like a soap opera on videotape.

Harry
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post #3968 of 4313 Old 04-16-2014, 05:26 AM
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It says it's Motionflow XR240...but what's the true refresh rate with all the enhancements off.

60hz or 120hz?
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post #3969 of 4313 Old 04-16-2014, 08:52 AM
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Isn't it 120?

Harry
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post #3970 of 4313 Old 04-16-2014, 09:38 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johndoejohndoes View Post

It says it's Motionflow XR240...but what's the true refresh rate with all the enhancements off.

60hz or 120hz?

 

Confusing question.  Here's why.

 

With everything "off", the R550A will faithfully reproduce inputs of 24p/30i/30p/60i and 60p directly frame for frame at 1080.

 

Note: as an aside, the R550A also has the ability to take 1080p120 in, and will display it in the corner, but will discard frames ("frame dropping" or "frame discarding" are a couple terms you'll see about this with TVs).  To get 120 actually output you'll have to drop the input feed to 720p, then you'll get 720p120 out.

 

Given the inputs of 24p/30i/30p/60i/60p, adding interpolation will raise the output to 120.  No one has reported yet what that means for each individual rate.  For instance, it's unclear if 30i goes to 120p or 120i.  It's also unclear if there is any native interlaced output at all or if everything becomes line-doubled on the way out.

 

On top of this rate, there is a pulse mechanism (which is the reason for all TVs to have numbers that say things like "motionflow" instead of "refresh rate" nowadays).  It's no joke---this is the best way to mitigate motion blur.

 

Now all this aside, I'm still after all of this time unclear which of the settings turns on interpolation without pulse, pulse without interpolation, (if separating them is even possible), and what the true details are of any of the advanced settings on Sony's.


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post #3971 of 4313 Old 04-16-2014, 03:26 PM
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Sony called me today and offered to replace my 11 month old 70R550A with a W850B for $250. In doing some research it seems like the 850 has a few upgrades that effect my main desire, the best picture quality possible. I hate to give up Passive for Active 3D, especially since CNET felt the 850's 3D was really bad. So bad that they contacted Sony and expects a software upgrade. The 850 uses the X-Reality Pro engine and a more matted screen. According to CNET's review the 850 gets better black levels and does provide a better picture than the R550A. I don't expect you to tell me what to do but I would like to know what you would do. Thanks, Andy
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post #3972 of 4313 Old 04-16-2014, 06:31 PM
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Originally Posted by andy sullivan View Post

Sony called me today and offered to replace my 11 month old 70R550A with a W850B for $250. In doing some research it seems like the 850 has a few upgrades that effect my main desire, the best picture quality possible. I hate to give up Passive for Active 3D, especially since CNET felt the 850's 3D was really bad. So bad that they contacted Sony and expects a software upgrade. The 850 uses the X-Reality Pro engine and a more matted screen. According to CNET's review the 850 gets better black levels and does provide a better picture than the R550A. I don't expect you to tell me what to do but I would like to know what you would do. Thanks, Andy

I don't understand why you should have to pay for your replacement. Your TV is still under the factory warranty right? SONY sent me a 70R520A last week to replace my 60R550A and I didn't even request a bigger more expensive TV. I refused that TV and now they're sending me a 60W850B for no additional charge. If I were you, I'd tell them that they don't deserve a dime more than what you already paid for your TV.
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post #3973 of 4313 Old 04-17-2014, 10:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andy sullivan View Post

Sony called me today and offered to replace my 11 month old 70R550A with a W850B for $250. In doing some research it seems like the 850 has a few upgrades that effect my main desire, the best picture quality possible. I hate to give up Passive for Active 3D, especially since CNET felt the 850's 3D was really bad. So bad that they contacted Sony and expects a software upgrade. The 850 uses the X-Reality Pro engine and a more matted screen. According to CNET's review the 850 gets better black levels and does provide a better picture than the R550A. I don't expect you to tell me what to do but I would like to know what you would do. Thanks, Andy

3d on the 550a is awesome. However I hardly use 3d so I would take the upgrade for the better blacks and xreality pro engine.
The new look is better too.

I wonder if there is anything you can do to get them to lower the $250 cost for upgrade.
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post #3974 of 4313 Old 04-17-2014, 10:58 PM
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Originally Posted by bowlopho View Post

3d on the 550a is awesome. However I hardly use 3d so I would take the upgrade for the better blacks and xreality pro engine.
The new look is better too.

I wonder if there is anything you can do to get them to lower the $250 cost for upgrade.
I'm certainly going to question them regarding the $250 exchange price even though I'll pay it if I have to. My feeling is that the TV is under warranty and they have already agreed that it's flawed and cannot be fixed. I doubt that their warranty paperwork mentions a replacement cost if the TV is under it's factory warranty. As of today on the Sony web site the 70R550A is listed as available for $2249 and the 70W850B is available for @2299. My wife thinks they are just trying to cover the shipping cost by calling it an exchange price. Tomorrow I will ask them who decided on this $250 price and an explanation for it. If I have to pay it I'll make very very certain that they know that I'm not happy about it.
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post #3975 of 4313 Old 04-19-2014, 06:48 AM
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I just looked at the picture of the 850B on Amazon. They actually decided to put the screen support legs all the way on the edges! Wow, this not only looks strange; Many who have stands that are not full width will need to buy another stand.
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post #3976 of 4313 Old 04-19-2014, 08:09 AM
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I just looked at the picture of the 850B on Amazon. They actually decided to put the screen support legs all the way on the edges! Wow, this not only looks strange; Many who have stands that are not full width will need to buy another stand.

You also have the option of placing the legs in a middle position. Kudos to Sony for realizing not everyone have these gigantic stands lurking around their home.

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post #3977 of 4313 Old 04-19-2014, 08:12 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StormCrow View Post

I just looked at the picture of the 850B on Amazon. They actually decided to put the screen support legs all the way on the edges! Wow, this not only looks strange; Many who have stands that are not full width will need to buy another stand.

You also have the option of placing the legs in a middle position. Kudos to Sony for realizing not everyone have these gigantic stands lurking around their home.

 

I was just looking through the pictures and trying to figure out if that was really the case.  I can't figure out how they did it if so.  Look at this diagram:

feature2_bg.jpg

The supports would push upward into the screen itself, no?  Overall this wedge design is a little weird....I still find it jarring.


Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent. Unless, of course, it's to keep someone from creating a phone video in portrait mode, in which case it's a pretty good first step. Portrait mooks: KNOCK IT OFF.
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post #3978 of 4313 Old 04-19-2014, 08:32 AM
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Originally Posted by tgm1024 View Post

I was just looking through the pictures and trying to figure out if that was really the case.  I can't figure out how they did it if so.  Look at this diagram:

The supports would push upward into the screen itself, no?  Overall this wedge design is a little weird....I still find it jarring.

See page 11 please

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post #3979 of 4313 Old 04-19-2014, 09:25 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tgm1024 View Post

I was just looking through the pictures and trying to figure out if that was really the case.  I can't figure out how they did it if so.  Look at this diagram:

The supports would push upward into the screen itself, no?  Overall this wedge design is a little weird....I still find it jarring.

See page 11 please

Product manual

 

Couldn't get the site to load, but I believe you.


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post #3980 of 4313 Old 04-19-2014, 12:12 PM
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Couldn't get the site to load, but I believe you.

The last two pictures in the picture gallery for CNET's review of the W850b shows the legs moved in.

http://www.cnet.com/products/sony-kdl-70w850b/
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post #3981 of 4313 Old 04-19-2014, 01:27 PM
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Thanks for the info! Good to know.
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Hoping to see if someone can answer a question. For some reason, anytime I setup the picture settings, it will keep switching back to Vovid after a few minutes. I have tried to Reset, but it's still doing it. My wife switched it to Vivid, but I can't seem to get it off of it.

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post #3983 of 4313 Old 04-19-2014, 07:20 PM
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Hey Andy I was charged the same price to upgrade from my 70R550A ..but I upgraded to the S990A the curved screen I know it is only a 65 inch but in my case and viewing distance the 65 is just fine by me ..it has passive 3d and the X-Reality Pro Engine as well as the Tri-Luminos and a deep black panel and I will say the picture is fantastic! The TriLuminos really makes a difference and the curve is barely noticable
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Obviously you must feel thar sacrificing 5 inches is a good trade off. Maybe i should also feel that way. Isn''t the S990a a more expensive TV? I've heard good things about the Tri-Luminous panel. Any other opinions would be appreciated.
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post #3985 of 4313 Old 04-20-2014, 03:07 PM
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The extra 5 inches I had with the 70 was actually too big for my room and viewing area and after watching this set for about 3 weeks I really don't notice the difference..yes the S990A is a bit more expensive but it is only about 200 more than the W850B at 2499..One of the biggest advantages of this set over the 70 is the speakers..The Surround effect I think is really good for the TV's speakers and makes a nice compliment to an AV receiver which I also have.. I use the TV'S speakers late at nite when I can't turn on the AV receiver and wake the rest of my building
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Hey guys,

I'm not sure what I should do here. I've had the 70" 550a for about a yrs. I still plays great and all. EXCEPT. Seams the white blobs are really starting to show. I played with the settings last night. Didn't seam to be able to help it any. I must say as long as its a full screen movie or show, I don't notice it. But if I have the side or upper/lower black bands, (not full screen) then I notice it.

I bought the tv from Costco, with the added warranty and all. I just don't know if its worth even doing anything about. Not to mention it hangs on a wall. I no longer have the box. I'm also disabled so i'd have to have someone help. BLa Bla BLa....

I guess as long as it don't get worse. I don't know.....

Then I see some of you guys getting new better TV's. For a small fee....

Make me wonder even more...
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Anyone know if there's a way to get the R550A to automatically detect that a 3D SBS MKV is a 3D signal? The video is being played via a WDTV Live. I can manually enable 3D, but the WDTV navigation options that pop up are then displayed incorrectly.
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post #3988 of 4313 Old 04-21-2014, 08:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by harrybnbad View Post

Hey guys,

I'm not sure what I should do here. I've had the 70" 550a for about a yrs. I still plays great and all. EXCEPT. Seams the white blobs are really starting to show. I played with the settings last night. Didn't seam to be able to help it any. I must say as long as its a full screen movie or show, I don't notice it. But if I have the side or upper/lower black bands, (not full screen) then I notice it.

I bought the tv from Costco, with the added warranty and all. I just don't know if its worth even doing anything about. Not to mention it hangs on a wall. I no longer have the box. I'm also disabled so i'd have to have someone help. BLa Bla BLa....

I guess as long as it don't get worse. I don't know.....

Then I see some of you guys getting new better TV's. For a small fee....

Make me wonder even more...
Call Sony customer service even if it's more than a year old. By added warranty do you mean the extended warranty from Square Trade?
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post #3989 of 4313 Old 04-21-2014, 04:12 PM
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Call Sony customer service even if it's more than a year old. By added warranty do you mean the extended warranty from Square Trade?

Yes, I add the extended warranty from square trade.
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post #3990 of 4313 Old 04-21-2014, 04:26 PM
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If it's less than a year old call Sony customer service. If not call Square Trade. Mine is 11 months old and Sony is replacing with a 70w850b for $250.
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