Official 2013 Sony R550A series TVs (KDL-xxR550A) --- 50", 60", and 70" - Page 144 - AVS Forum
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post #4291 of 4313 Old 10-01-2014, 12:51 PM
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^^^Well from that my first inclination is to point you toward one of the W850B's, but I've never seen them in person.
The sony right? I read one review that said the 3D was bad. I intend to bring a player and check it out. But I lean toward the 70LB7100 because it's 70 and passive or the UN65H7150 because it's samsung and the PQ should be good. is the 850b passive 3D? Looks like I'm down to those 3 TVs. This is helping, thank you.

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post #4292 of 4313 Old 10-01-2014, 01:46 PM - Thread Starter
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The sony right? I read one review that said the 3D was bad. I intend to bring a player and check it out. But I lean toward the 70LB7100 because it's 70 and passive or the UN65H7150 because it's samsung and the PQ should be good. is the 850b passive 3D? Looks like I'm down to those 3 TVs. This is helping, thank you.

For Sony's (don't know why I still trust them----perhaps because they're "the devil I know"):

The 65w950b is a high-ish end FPR. But it's $2300 or so.

The 70w850b is more midlevel, I'm guessing PQ like the R550A, and it's $2100. But it's active, not FPR. (dammit)

Samsung doesn't mean good PQ. And I remember their panel lottery being among the worst, at least in 2010 when I test drove a completely unacceptable C6300.

I would definitely check out the LG's.

Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent. Unless, of course, it's to keep someone from creating a phone video in portrait mode, in which case it's a pretty good first step. Portrait mooks: KNOCK IT OFF.
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post #4293 of 4313 Old 10-01-2014, 01:52 PM
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yeah this is a problem. None of them are perfect. The LG has the advantage of being 70 passive and not a huge investment. But if PQ and black levels are worse than what I had then it's like I'm spending money to downgrade. I'm not getting the Sony because it's active. If it was passive that would be fine. But if I am forced to use active then I chose a samsung.

I don't agree with you. I think I'm going to get better picture quality with the samsung than I am the LG. I can switch to LG and get the same screen size and same type of 3D I am used to. sucks to have this happen now and there is no TV that screams, yep that's the one.

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Denon x4000 (amazing sound correcting software)
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SVS PC12-NSD + Klipsch RW12d (so boom)

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post #4294 of 4313 Old 10-01-2014, 02:25 PM
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The 70w850b is more midlevel, I'm guessing PQ like the R550A, and it's $2100. But it's active, not FPR. (dammit).
This is the one that gets me. If it was passive, it would just be a newer version of the one I lost. But it's not, and I'm stuck looking at other options. This TV is mainly for movies, and especially 3D movies. So I'm probably looking at the LG or even considering that 80" vizio from last year.

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Denon x4000 (amazing sound correcting software)
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post #4295 of 4313 Old 10-01-2014, 03:32 PM
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Does anyone know what models Sony started using IPS panels? I do not believe our R550a has them but I swore that the w802a from the same year did.
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post #4296 of 4313 Old 10-01-2014, 04:02 PM
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Does anyone know what models Sony started using IPS panels? I do not believe our R550a has them but I swore that the w802a from the same year did.
All of the w850b's use the IPS panel and are Active 3d. It's not horrible but the glasses are not very comfy. The w850b's do come with 4 pair of glasses. The x850b's (4k) except for the 70" are Passive. And also except for the 70" use the IPS panel. All of the w850b's use the X-Reality Pro Engine. The w950b's also use the X-Reality Pro Engine as well as the TRILUMANUCE color filter and the 950's are Passive, and use the IPS panel. If you can live with 65" the 65w950b is the best of the 2k sets. They all have adjustable feet. All of these 2k sets incorporate the wedge shape also. If you can find a 2013 65w850a, even a refurb, jump all over it. It uses the Samsung S-PVA Panel as well as the X-reality Pro Engine and the TRILUMANUCE color filter.
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post #4297 of 4313 Old 10-01-2014, 04:15 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by andy sullivan View Post
All of the w850b's use the IPS panel and are Active 3d. It's not horrible but the glasses are not very comfy. The w850b's do come with 4 pair of glasses. The x850b's (4k) except for the 70" are Passive. And also except for the 70" use the IPS panel. All of the w850b's use the X-Reality Pro Engine. The w950b's also use the X-Reality Pro Engine as well as the TRILUMANUCE color filter and the 950's are Passive, and use the IPS panel. If you can live with 65" the 65w950b is the best of the 2k sets. They all have adjustable feet. All of these 2k sets incorporate the wedge shape also. If you can find a 2013 65w850a, even a refurb, jump all over it. It uses the Samsung S-PVA Panel as well as the X-reality Pro Engine and the TRILUMANUCE color filter.
Andy, where online did you find the panel type? Passive no longer indicates an IPS panel.

Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent. Unless, of course, it's to keep someone from creating a phone video in portrait mode, in which case it's a pretty good first step. Portrait mooks: KNOCK IT OFF.
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post #4298 of 4313 Old 10-01-2014, 04:50 PM
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Andy, where online did you find the panel type? Passive no longer indicates an IPS panel.
I've developed a relationship with a Sony customer service manager and I asked about the different panels being used. He told me the panel for the 70x850b is Active VA and the 49". 55", and 65" are IPS and Passive, as is the w950b series. I hooked up a 65w950b Saturday and it is Passive for sure. Unfortunately, because I'm nosy, he couldn't find out who manufactured my VA panel in the 70x850b but it's Active. I haven't personally ran across a IPS panel that is Active 3d but there's plenty of stuff out there that I haven't seen. FYIW, that 65w950b I installed had a stunning picture and very nice 3d. Better 3d than my Active X model. IMO, if Sony would have taken the r550a display, added the X-Reality Pro Engine and added the TRILUMANUCE color filter they would have ruled the 60"70" market for years. If if if.
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post #4299 of 4313 Old 10-01-2014, 05:20 PM
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yep, I just wish they did then this TV going out for me would have been a blessing. now I'm just scrambling to get a TV this is maybe close to my old one.

The LG 70LB7100 is probably the closest I will get. My BB has 1 display model left perhaps I can talk them down from the 2400.

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SVS PC12-NSD + Klipsch RW12d (so boom)
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post #4300 of 4313 Old 10-01-2014, 06:34 PM
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Andy thanks for all that info. Do you happen to know the panels in the r550a and the w802 from last year?
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post #4301 of 4313 Old 10-01-2014, 08:33 PM
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Andy thanks for all that info. Do you happen to know the panels in the r550a and the w802 from last year?
Not for sure but I think the r550a is a VA panel. If the w802 is Passive it's probably a VA panel also.
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post #4302 of 4313 Old 10-02-2014, 05:37 AM - Thread Starter
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I've developed a relationship with a Sony customer service manager and I asked about the different panels being used. He told me the panel for the 70x850b is Active VA and the 49". 55", and 65" are IPS and Passive, as is the w950b series. I hooked up a 65w950b Saturday and it is Passive for sure. Unfortunately, because I'm nosy, he couldn't find out who manufactured my VA panel in the 70x850b but it's Active. I haven't personally ran across a IPS panel that is Active 3d but there's plenty of stuff out there that I haven't seen. FYIW, that 65w950b I installed had a stunning picture and very nice 3d. Better 3d than my Active X model. IMO, if Sony would have taken the r550a display, added the X-Reality Pro Engine and added the TRILUMANUCE color filter they would have ruled the 60"70" market for years. If if if.
X-Reality Pro is very cool. IMO (I'm not in the majority), Triluminos isn't that big of a deal, though it's not just a filter: the filter is ancillary to the more imiportant changing of the light source from a broader dichromatic white to a trichromatic LED or QD white.

Regarding IPS, I think you might be counting on a Sony service rep to be right, and I've found mistakes filter down from reps before. In fact it was a Sony service rep that told my BB guy that all passive 3D screens from Sony were IPS and made by LG. That turned out to be false.

Reps are just as prone to hearing misinformation and floating them around as fact as any of us are it seems. Don't get me started on the BS from LG reps. Oye.

And again, keep in mind that because it's not actually part of the Sony specification, the underlying panel for any model is free to change even for the same model at any time. AFAICT, the only ones that were diligent in putting IPS in their TV model specifications were Panasonic and LG.

Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent. Unless, of course, it's to keep someone from creating a phone video in portrait mode, in which case it's a pretty good first step. Portrait mooks: KNOCK IT OFF.
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post #4303 of 4313 Old 10-02-2014, 06:48 AM
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Just a note regarding Hulu and Netflix. Last year, we bought the 60r550a TV around Fathers Day, but I didn't get around to doing the free year of Netflix and Hulu Plus until around October 1st. Thanks to TGM's warning months ago, I marked my calendar for October and successfully cancelled out of both services.

Hulu Plus is just awful with its commercials and the way it wouldn't remember where we were if the service winked out. Netflix was a bit better, but doesn't have enough stuff I wanted to see to justify paying for it. If it had the full array of movies that they do on their DVD service, then maybe, but it's not a good fit. If I like a movie, I'd just as soon get a DVD or Blu-ray and watch it at my convenience, whenever I want. With Netflix, you never know if and when a movie might disappear.

But still, I appreciate the full year of service that Sony provided with the TV. The set is still great with a picture that dazzles everyone who sees it.

Harry
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post #4304 of 4313 Old 10-02-2014, 06:56 AM
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Originally Posted by tgm1024 View Post
X-Reality Pro is very cool. IMO (I'm not in the majority), Triluminos isn't that big of a deal, though it's not just a filter: the filter is ancillary to the more imiportant changing of the light source from a broader dichromatic white to a trichromatic LED or QD white.

Regarding IPS, I think you might be counting on a Sony service rep to be right, and I've found mistakes filter down from reps before. In fact it was a Sony service rep that told my BB guy that all passive 3D screens from Sony were IPS and made by LG. That turned out to be false.

Reps are just as prone to hearing misinformation and floating them around as fact as any of us are it seems. Don't get me started on the BS from LG reps. Oye.

And again, keep in mind that because it's not actually part of the Sony specification, the underlying panel for any model is free to change even for the same model at any time. AFAICT, the only ones that were diligent in putting IPS in their TV model specifications were Panasonic and LG.

tgm. I disagree. Triluminos paired with QD's was a big deal when Sony first came out with it. Its what made the X900A and the W900A award winning sets and 2 of Sony's best selling tv's. Triluminos alone without QD's now you can say is really not that big of a deal and I will say that Sony made a mistake when they dropped the QD's in favor of their own in house tech.
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post #4305 of 4313 Old 10-02-2014, 07:12 AM - Thread Starter
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tgm. I disagree. Triluminos paired with QD's was a big deal when Sony first came out with it. Its what made the X900A and the W900A award winning sets and 2 of Sony's best selling tv's. Triluminos alone without QD's now you can say is really not that big of a deal and I will say that Sony made a mistake when they dropped the QD's in favor of their own in house tech.
The RGB spectral emissions were just as tight with the Triluminos LED's as with the Triluminos QD as I recall. This left them with identical performance, or nearly so. In any case, it didn't impress me in person: Did it improve static contrast? No. Did it improve motion? No. Does it improve bit depth. No. Does it improve response time? No. Enlarging the color space (even if more accurately) isn't the highest on my list of important things and even if it were, the triangles were too close to matter in the chromaticity diagram for Rec.709.

The 65x900A was an award winning set for reasons other than Triluminos. Not the least of which was the fact that it was one of the first 4K attempts that actually worked well.

Curious though: where did you get the sense that it was one of Sony's best selling TVs? The flagships of all TV manufacturers always account for a mere sliver of the overall sales dollar volume. We discuss this endlessly in the OLED thread.

Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent. Unless, of course, it's to keep someone from creating a phone video in portrait mode, in which case it's a pretty good first step. Portrait mooks: KNOCK IT OFF.

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post #4306 of 4313 Old 10-02-2014, 07:22 AM
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The RGB spectral emissions were just as tight with the LED's as with the QD as I recall. This left them with identical performance, or nearly so. In any case, it didn't impress me in person: Did it improve static contrast? No. Did it improve motion? No. Does it improve bit depth. No. Does it improve response time? No. Enlarging the color space (even if more accurately) isn't the highest on my list of important things and even if it were, the triangles were very close in the chromaticity diagram.
Good points tgm and cant argue with what you said. But for me I was and still am very impressed with the PQ of my w900a and in my book the QD's made all the difference. There is a reason why Hisense, Samsung and others are starting to use the QD tech. Contrast, motion, bit depth and response time are total different things and Sony never claimed Triluminous/QD would improve or make those features better and if anyone thought otherwise they would be disapointed but thats a whole other story.
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post #4307 of 4313 Old 10-02-2014, 07:31 AM - Thread Starter
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Good points tgm and cant argue with what you said. But for me I was and still am very impressed with the PQ of my w900a and in my book the QD's made all the difference. There is a reason why Hisense, Samsung and others are starting to use the QD tech. Contrast, motion, bit depth and response time are total different things and Sony never claimed Triluminous/QD would improve or make those features better and if anyone thought otherwise they would be disapointed but thats a whole other story.
Fair enough, but I suspect what you may be reacting to is the contrast that the panel was able to achieve (QD trilum or not). It's a high quality panel in their model line-up; I suspect if there were no QD in it at all, the LED-Trilum would look just a spectacular. And even then I'm skeptical it would matter at all given how good the high end panels look compared to the lower models from any given manufacturer.

To each his own though; I don't begrudge your observations.
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post #4308 of 4313 Old 10-02-2014, 07:50 AM
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Fair enough, but I suspect what you may be reacting to is the contrast that the panel was able to achieve (QD trilum or not). It's a high quality panel in their model line-up; I suspect if there were no QD in it at all, the LED-Trilum would look just a spectacular. And even then I'm skeptical it would matter at all given how good the high end panels look compared to the lower models from any given manufacturer.

To each his own though; I don't begrudge your observations.
Funny you mention 'high end' panels tgm. That's where I think Sony is slipping. It seem's to me at least that Sony is not getting the high end panels anymore or just not willing to spend the money for high end panels. Am I right or wrong?
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post #4309 of 4313 Old 10-02-2014, 08:19 AM - Thread Starter
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Funny you mention 'high end' panels tgm. That's where I think Sony is slipping. It seem's to me at least that Sony is not getting the high end panels anymore or just not willing to spend the money for high end panels. Am I right or wrong?
No, they are definitely slipping in absolute terms. I'm talking about the high end panels relative to the rest of their line.
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post #4310 of 4313 Old 10-11-2014, 08:03 AM
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Hey guys... new to the forum and this may have been mentioned previously in the thread, but I couldn't find it...

I've been noticing quite a bit of chromatic aberration, or "purple fringing" on this set with all material -- TV signal, files off a USB, and Blu-rays/games. Anyone know if a certain setting or combination of settings causes this to happen, or is this just a crappy panel for colour?

Other issues I've experienced are flashlighting/clouding (which I think I was able to minimize by loosening all the screws in the back...might be all in my head), and the DSE thing during stuff like hockey and golf.

Most annoying is the purple fringing though. Any insight would be appreciated!
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post #4311 of 4313 Old 10-11-2014, 08:10 AM - Thread Starter
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Hey guys... new to the forum and this may have been mentioned previously in the thread, but I couldn't find it...

I've been noticing quite a bit of chromatic aberration, or "purple fringing" on this set with all material -- TV signal, files off a USB, and Blu-rays/games. Anyone know if a certain setting or combination of settings causes this to happen, or is this just a crappy panel for colour?

Other issues I've experienced are flashlighting/clouding (which I think I was able to minimize by loosening all the screws in the back...might be all in my head), and the DSE thing during stuff like hockey and golf.

Most annoying is the purple fringing though. Any insight would be appreciated!
You're likely seeing a variant of the "LLE" ("Lavender Lip Effect") that we noticed early on. It's the first and only model I've ever seen this kind of thing on in my life. It's very subborn and frankly weird quirk in the R550A CMS.

I was able to mostly remove mine, but not for all channels. I'm mostly ok with it, but periodically, the crappier channels (such as show home improvement shows, etc.) will show it more often than not. The pay channels do not any longer. >phew<.

But I agree with everyone else here: it's atrocious that a Sony has this as an issue.

Please refer to post #1 . In that post I put in links to spreadsheets of others' settings that have worked well for them. I used to have it open for editing, but it became a police action that took a little too much time. There are a few options to choose from in those spreadsheets.

I would also suggest printing out the blank one that I supply, and keep it near the TV, or in the cabinet. It'll help you experiment with your own settings over time, because trust me, absolutely no one could keep the permutations straight in their heads.

This is not a TV I suggest anyone buy; if you cannot get it under control in a reasonable amount of time, I would (sadly) have to suggest you return it and move on.

Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent. Unless, of course, it's to keep someone from creating a phone video in portrait mode, in which case it's a pretty good first step. Portrait mooks: KNOCK IT OFF.

Last edited by tgm1024; 10-11-2014 at 08:14 AM.
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post #4312 of 4313 Old 10-12-2014, 07:47 AM
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My 60r55a is staying as i will finally be mounting it on the wall downstairs. I have learned to live with the cloud. Whatever. But.... Just to throw this out there, the new vizio 50' is quite amazing. Full array backlighting. Zero clouds anywhere and the blackestevels i have ever seen. The viewing angle is on par with the sony : terrible. But this is also one of the cheapest sets on the market. I got it at target. 2 months return policy no interrogation (unlike bb) and 5% off with redcard. Really impressed with this set. No 3d tho. Never thought i would buy a vizio.
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post #4313 of 4313 Old 10-14-2014, 08:04 AM
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You're likely seeing a variant of the "LLE" ("Lavender Lip Effect") that we noticed early on. It's the first and only model I've ever seen this kind of thing on in my life. It's very subborn and frankly weird quirk in the R550A CMS.

I was able to mostly remove mine, but not for all channels. I'm mostly ok with it, but periodically, the crappier channels (such as show home improvement shows, etc.) will show it more often than not. The pay channels do not any longer. >phew<.

But I agree with everyone else here: it's atrocious that a Sony has this as an issue.

Please refer to post #1 . In that post I put in links to spreadsheets of others' settings that have worked well for them. I used to have it open for editing, but it became a police action that took a little too much time. There are a few options to choose from in those spreadsheets.

I would also suggest printing out the blank one that I supply, and keep it near the TV, or in the cabinet. It'll help you experiment with your own settings over time, because trust me, absolutely no one could keep the permutations straight in their heads.

This is not a TV I suggest anyone buy; if you cannot get it under control in a reasonable amount of time, I would (sadly) have to suggest you return it and move on.

Thanks for the reply. It does seem like something that only shows up with certain content, mostly during darker scenes. I wonder if this problem is something that could be fixed with a firmware update... unfortunately I'm about 3 days past 1 year of ownership, so returning it or claiming a defective product to Sony isn't an option anymore

FYI the spreadsheet links on the first page don't seem to be working for me.
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Reply LCD Flat Panel Displays

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