Official Sharp 60LE650U/70LE650U/80 Owner's Thread - Page 19 - AVS Forum
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post #541 of 644 Old 05-06-2014, 07:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Visor View Post

As I indicated above, the 60" was $600 more than the 50", and the 65" was $500 more than the 60". Just wanted to be clear that we are talking about more than just a couple hundred up and down wink.gif At least since purchasing my Sharp, the price has come down twice and I've been able to get back $300 thanks to price protection. $2000 for a 70" Smart TV in Canada ain't bad at all. wink.gif
I was looking at the ST60 from a close distance at a store while watching a Blu-ray of The Dark Knight. However, the dithering looked identical to what I saw on the S60 that I briefly owned, and I first caught it while sitting 10 feet away. Of course, once you see an artifact, it's always easy to spot after that. tongue.gif

By the way, the Dirty Screen Effect (DSE) that both myself and kovach were seeing apparently happens with plasmas as well, as the DSE is caused by the anti-reflective (AR) filter not being applied uniformly, as this article indicates.
I'm actually fairly happy with the overall uniformity... there isn't any noticeable clouding or flashlighting with the unit. The only two artifacts I've found are the shading in the bottom corners (which I think I can live with over the long term) and the DSE blotching that only occurs while panning horizontally in bright scenes (such as hockey games). I don't watch hockey games myself, but my girlfriend is a huge fan and is trying to convert me, so this may be a problem for me down the line. tongue.gif Kovach lucked out as he apparently got a replacement that was DSE-free, but from what I've read from other threads/reviews on the general DSE issue, finding a unit without this problem could be very challenging. As I mentioned, the demo unit in the store had the DSE splotch in the exact same place, which suggests to me that there was a widespread defect in the application of the AR filter.

I still have 6 days to decide if I want to return the unit (good ol' Future Shop extended their return policy to Jan. 5th because of the Holidays). If I do take it back then I'm not sure what I'd get in its place. I may just move my 52" CCFL-backlit Sony back to the living room and play the waiting game.
Visor, I hope by now you've seen the light & are enjoying hockey. I've converted my husband (although I won't touch the XBOX ONE, hand-eye coordination for this female ranks -25); especially since I wanted the 70" LE650U for my birthday gift - Before April, Because It's The Cup. My TV technical knowledge pales in comparison to all of the gurus on AVS here but the more I read, the more I learn! Mahalo to all of you for feeding my brain :-)
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post #542 of 644 Old 05-12-2014, 11:43 AM
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Has anyone had problems connecting this TV via Wifi? I really would like to use some of the apps, but I just cannot get it to connect.

I can't use WPS with my router (ActionTec router, supplied by Verizon for Fios). The TV does see my SSID, and generally shows 2 bars out of 5 (which is odd - the router isn't THAT far from the TV). However, when I choose my network and enter the password (which I'm sure is correct - I've tried this about 8 times), it always fails to connect. I have a PS3 right under the TV (inside a cabinet, even) that uses Wifi without any issue. Help?!
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post #543 of 644 Old 05-12-2014, 12:22 PM
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Hi. I wanted to know if the 60LE650U, is good for gaming. How's the input lag on it ?
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post #544 of 644 Old 05-12-2014, 04:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Fila13us View Post

Hi. I wanted to know if the 60LE650U, is good for gaming. How's the input lag on it ?

In Game mode, it's okay, not great. In other modes, it sucks.
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post #545 of 644 Old 05-15-2014, 03:04 PM
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Hi All,

I figured I would chime in here with my experiences of both the 70 inch Sharp 640 & 650 units. I initially purchased the 640u, owned it for nearly a year, until Sharp replaced that model with the 650 under warranty. This problem was the dread white spots, which were starting to grow and multiply. I also was observing increasing poorer uniformity, DSE was so bad during hockey games I could barely concentrate on the game itself. The 640 was a floor model, purchased at a discount under full warranty. This could explain why it has deteriorated quickly after less than a year ownership. Another explanation, includes the process of handling, transporting and mounting. These very large HDTV sets are delicate, handling, transportation and packaging are critical. Even the way they are mounted to the wall is important, the entire TV can twist on it's frame ever so slightly and this, in time, may cause issues with uniformity.

OVERALL QUALITY

The overall quality of these sets is very good, but certainly not great. Even with proper calibration, your expectations should fit the price. Best case scenario (a perfectly working/conditioned model) these TV will still suffer from some uniformity issues and the dirty screen effect (DSE). These aren't great devices for watching hockey in particular, but then again, most competitive models suffer from the exact same issues. Color can be excellent, but it fades quickly when viewing towards any angle. Motion artifacts and the dreaded Soap Opera Effect (SOE) are big sources of discussion here and abroad ... and it's in these area's that I've made the most discoveries/progress.

BLU-RAY 1080p

The following text ONLY concerns Blu-Ray picture input quality @1080p. IMO, over-the-air, cable, PC, USB input, DVD, shouldn't be used for calibrate purposes because far too many other variables exist which WILL skew the results.

My BRP is a relatively cheap Panasonic model.

MOTION ARTIFACTS

When I first purchased the 640, I traveled the internet looking for information. Although I was concerned about motion, I was far more concerned about this TV poor A/V synchronization. So poor, it severely compromised my ability to enjoy watching movies. I tried all settings, to no avail. Upon further research, I came across Z-MAD advice to use game mode. In this mode, the sync issues decreased to a very large extent, but they were still present. I have since concluded, that within my home theater system, motion issues are not simply the responsibility of the TV alone. How the TV is integrated with the BRP determines best picture quality. I have since concluded that this is a major problem in many peoples homes, not just with Sharp models. To make matters worse, the advice provided by the vast majority of industry insiders ("gurus") is consistently the same; wrong.

24 FRAMES PER SECOND

Near every publication I've read will advice that you set your BRP to output 24 frames per second. They will correctly conclude that this is the original frame rate, hence it will provide the most "theater" like presentation. That may be true within the movie theater environment, but it's certainly FAR from being a realistic/achievable goal within the vast majority of home theater systems - which are comprised of main-stream consumer goods.

The problem with setting your BRP to 24fps output is that the math (cadence) required to fit 24 frames into 30 frames, then 60hz/120hz requires much advanced processing. Processing speed therefore becomes a factor.. Along with the input signal, HDTVs must also process multiple other commands within a multi-tasking environment. Few discuss this issue in terms of latency ... as the HDTV attempts to process all functions, it inevitably starts to delay the video stream in relation to the audio stream. Hence, A/V sync issues.

To make a long story short (bypass the saga of my experimentation) motion issues can be resolved with both the 640 and 650 units by simply setting the BRP to standard output, and NOT 24 frames per second. Letting the BRP do the processing & math relieves the HDTV from these duties.. With this BR configuration, with TV set to Game mode or Movie mode and with all digital processing switched off, motion artifacts decreased to the point of being non-existent. I found it highly ironic that this relationship provided a far truer representation of the movie theater experience than the 24fps recommendation the "guru's" consistently advise. To further justify this setting, A/V sync issues are also decreased to the point of being non-existent. In game mode, sync issues are totally eliminated (650/640). In Movie mode, in which prior A/V sync issues using 24fps were horrendous, they now sync'd to near perfection (650).

DIFFERENCES BETWEEN 640 & 650.

SCREEN TYPE

The 640 uses more of a matte type screen, the 650 more of a glossy type. Therefore the 640 was better at eliminating refraction in rooms that had lots of lighting, while the 650 was preferred in more dimly lit rooms. The 650 glossy screen offers slightly better depth of detail, but only in the right environment.

UNIFORMITY

Can't speak of these units in generalist terms because uniformity issues are so inconsistent with these TV, and maybe more individually dependent. As stated earlier, my 640 had poor uniformity, but it was on-demo-display for months, had probably been handled by many, and was transported with the minimal packaging. In contrast, Sharp transported the 650 straight from the manufacture to my place using a huge wooded container designed to handle these tv's with delicacy & care. Therefore my 650 has incurred much less twisting, bumping and handling compared to my 640 ... and that in itself probably explains why my 650 offers far superior uniformity.

PROCESSOR

The 640 uses a single core processor, the 650 dual core. How this benefits the 650 picture quality, I'm not fully certain, only to state that it would make sense that it helped., and seems to have helped. The 650 does offer a slightly better picture, depending on source, but it's marginal.

FUNCTIONALITY

The 650 offers greater gamma range, a 10 point setting (but not in game mode), and some additional streaming options (which are of no concern to me). The advanced menu systems are much the same. The biggest difference I've noticed was with the Sharpness setting. The transitions between numbers was very coarse on the 640 in comparison to the 650. For example, setting sharpness to 0 on the 640 proved best, but it still wasn't perfect, a bit too soft an edge. Setting it to 1proved offered a little too much edge enhancement, a setting of -1 smoothed out the edges too much. It was either 1 or 0 with 640. With the 650, the numbers are far more gradual, offering smaller edge enhancements control. Unlike the 640, with the 650, I can set sharpness near perfectly, and the effective range is wider.

CALIBRATION

I use the Disney WOW disk, primarily for sharpness, contrast & brightness. However, with the 10 point, color or temp settings, I use personal preference and/or borrow calibration setting from the likes of cnet or people online. Generally, the settings of Red, Yellow and Green are done in the above manner, while Cyan, Blue, Magenta are set using the WOW blue filter.

AUDIO

The 640 is better in this regard, but the differences are not huge. When mounted to the wall, the 650 required some minor adjustments to sound right. Since Blu-Ray audio is sent directly from BRP to my stereo system, the sound of the TV during BR movie viewing is redundant. However, without the stereo's intervention, the sound of the 650 is not quite as powerful as the 640.

....

I hope someone finds my experience helpful.
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post #546 of 644 Old 05-17-2014, 07:43 AM
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I had a fun morning today. Turned on the system to watch some morning news. Got sound but no picture. Turned everything off and then on again. Noted the TV lit up and showed the input info in the upper right. Started running my Harmony through my activities. Couldn't generate a picture but the TV was on and showing the input message. I figured at first the HDMI boar board in my Onkyo failed, again. So I pulled power on the Onkyo and checked my cables. Same thing no picture but seeing input message on screen.
Then I dug out the Sharp remote and I could run the settings menu but NOT the apps menu! I unplugged the TV for 30 seconds or so. Turned everything on again and got the picture back.
I'm going to be very glad I have an extended warranty. This does not bode well. I only hope it can totally fail so it can be properly diagnosed. Anyone else having to reboot their TV?
mad.gif

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post #547 of 644 Old 05-17-2014, 08:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joe221 View Post

I had a fun morning today. Turned on the system to watch some morning news. Got sound but no picture. Turned everything off and then on again. Noted the TV lit up and showed the input info in the upper right. Started running my Harmony through my activities. Couldn't generate a picture but the TV was on and showing the input message. I figured at first the HDMI boar board in my Onkyo failed, again. So I pulled power on the Onkyo and checked my cables. Same thing no picture but seeing input message on screen.
Then I dug out the Sharp remote and I could run the settings menu but NOT the apps menu! I unplugged the TV for 30 seconds or so. Turned everything on again and got the picture back.
I'm going to be very glad I have an extended warranty. This does not bode well. I only hope it can totally fail so it can be properly diagnosed. Anyone else having to reboot their TV?
mad.gif

Same thing happed to mine a few months back with the exact same symptoms. I was acatually dialing customer service when it dawned on my to try uplugging the set. That did the trick and it came right back to life ... haven't had an issue since. I'm not too worried about it; some electronics just need to a reboot from time to time.
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post #548 of 644 Old 05-17-2014, 08:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VegasFlyby View Post

Same thing happed to mine a few months back with the exact same symptoms. I was acatually dialing customer service when it dawned on my to try uplugging the set. That did the trick and it came right back to life ... haven't had an issue since. I'm not too worried about it; some electronics just need to a reboot from time to time.

I'm hoping that too. I just have a history of TV failures. Two were lemoned one had its last failure a bit after the EW ended.

Joe in West Los Angeles, CA
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post #549 of 644 Old 05-19-2014, 01:32 PM
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Hi all, I have the sharp lc-60c6500u which I believe is the same as these?  I just couldn't find a thread specific to my model.  I bought it at Sam's club just over a year ago and last night I noticed a thin black line towards the bottom of the screen.  I've taken a picture with my cellphone so you can hopefully see what I'm talking about:

 

http://i.imgur.com/PM9iA0xl.jpg

 

Googling provides little answers, so I figured I would ask here.  Obviously I'm out of the 12 month warranty and these tv's are probably going to be cheaper to just replace than to fix.  However, it's just one line so not a huge deal as of yet...if it continues or gets worse, I might look towards a new tv.

 

For now though-any quick fixes or is the unit done?

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post #550 of 644 Old 05-19-2014, 03:37 PM
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Is it like that on all I puts and all sources?

Xbox One Gamertag = The Barbeerian

PS4 PSNID = The-Barbeerian
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post #551 of 644 Old 05-19-2014, 04:08 PM
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Is it like that on all I puts and all sources?

Yes, I just tried it on two other inputs (PS3 and Xbox HDMI inputs) and the line was still there.

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post #552 of 644 Old 05-19-2014, 04:16 PM
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If you also tried it with different Hdmi cables then you could try a factory reset but I'm betting there is a hardware issue.

Probably cheaper to fix than buying a new set. Not much to get a estimate to know for sure

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post #553 of 644 Old 05-19-2014, 04:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nwin View Post

Hi all, I have the sharp lc-60c6500u which I believe is the same as these?  I just couldn't find a thread specific to my model.  I bought it at Sam's club just over a year ago and last night I noticed a thin black line towards the bottom of the screen.  I've taken a picture with my cellphone so you can hopefully see what I'm talking about:

http://i.imgur.com/PM9iA0xl.jpg

Googling provides little answers, so I figured I would ask here.  Obviously I'm out of the 12 month warranty and these tv's are probably going to be cheaper to just replace than to fix.  However, it's just one line so not a huge deal as of yet...if it continues or gets worse, I might look towards a new tv.

For now though-any quick fixes or is the unit done?

Crossing my fingers for you, did you by chance buy it with a credit card that adds a year to the warranty, like an Amex. Others do it too. Now you know why an extended warranty on a big ticket item is actually a good idea.

Sam's takes Discover, right? They add the year, check with them if that's what you used. Also call Sharp. That looks like the failure of the panel. They may make it right, that's way to soon for a failure like that.

Joe in West Los Angeles, CA
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post #554 of 644 Old 05-19-2014, 05:35 PM
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Ok this is weird...it's gone now???

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Originally Posted by joe221 View Post


Crossing my fingers for you, did you by chance buy it with a credit card that adds a year to the warranty, like an Amex. Others do it too. Now you know why an extended warranty on a big ticket item is actually a good idea.

Sam's takes Discover, right? They add the year, check with them if that's what you used. Also call Sharp. That looks like the failure of the panel. They may make it right, that's way to soon for a failure like that.

I didn't buy it on a CC with extra warranty...just bought it April 16, 2013.

 

It seems like the place where it was appearing was basically the top of the lower Direct TV bar...see this image:

 

http://imgur.com/WooJd5w

 

Is burn-in possible on a display like this?  Maybe that's what it was from?


Of course, now that I've just been staring at smaller pieces of the TV, I'm noticing something different.  Check this image out:

http://i.imgur.com/sPd0NQCl.jpg

 

See the lighter, almost white spots?  It's like light is almost tearing through, like if you poked some holes in a piece of paper and let light shine through them.  You can only tell when it's showing lighter colors in the background of that area...if it's darker color, you can't notice them at all.

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post #555 of 644 Old 05-19-2014, 06:48 PM
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...and scratch that.  The line is still there.  I just thought it was gone. I'm calling Sharp up tomorrow.

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post #556 of 644 Old 05-20-2014, 01:23 PM
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Welp, I called Sharp and they said normally what happens is if it's within the year warranty, they'll take care of it, but outside of the year, they just direct me to call the nearest service center and they will help me.  They will also charge because it's out of warranty.  I told her that was pretty ridiculous since it's only a month out of warranty, so she's e-mailing me some information where I guess I take some pictures of the damage and send it to them, then they will either tell me if they're taking care of it or if I'm screwed.

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post #557 of 644 Old 05-20-2014, 04:20 PM
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Originally Posted by nwin View Post

Welp, I called Sharp and they said normally what happens is if it's within the year warranty, they'll take care of it, but outside of the year, they just direct me to call the nearest service center and they will help me.  They will also charge because it's out of warranty.  I told her that was pretty ridiculous since it's only a month out of warranty, so she's e-mailing me some information where I guess I take some pictures of the damage and send it to them, then they will either tell me if they're taking care of it or if I'm screwed.

Please share all of your experience with Sharp. I'm for one, very interested. I assume this will tell you if you WILL EVER buy any other Sharp products for the rest of your life and possibly all you tell of your experience. It could be great it could be very sad for Sharp.

Me personally I'm on the fence. Sharp left a very sour taste in my mouth with how they handled a missing screw in my stand. When the delivery guy showed that a screw was missing I was disheartened. But, it turned out to be one of the four rear screws. If it was one of the underside screws I would have had to refuse the delivery as there would be no way I could do it on my own. The rear one, I could. I was still nervous with a 25% reduction in rigidity and having to move the TV to get at the screw to mount it. That's a lot of flex on the screen. Well when I called Sharp to get the screw it took about 4 calls over the course of a month with some hoop jumping and faxing to get ONE SCREW. They really know how to make a customer happy. So I really am interested and now you know my love of Sharp. Great picture thanks to Z-Mad's calibration but a lot of early aggravation too. Now you have a major failure a month out of warranty? Wasn't it extended when you registered it online or was that a different product?
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post #558 of 644 Old 05-20-2014, 04:37 PM
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Please share all of your experience with Sharp. I'm for one, very interested. I assume this will tell you if you WILL EVER buy any other Sharp products for the rest of your life and possibly all you tell of your experience. It could be great it could be very sad for Sharp.

Me personally I'm on the fence. Sharp left a very sour taste in my mouth with how they handled a missing screw in my stand. When the delivery guy showed that a screw was missing I was disheartened. But, it turned out to be one of the four rear screws. If it was one of the underside screws I would have had to refuse the delivery as there would be no way I could do it on my own. The rear one, I could. I was still nervous with a 25% reduction in rigidity and having to move the TV to get at the screw to mount it. That's a lot of flex on the screen. Well when I called Sharp to get the screw it took about 4 calls over the course of a month with some hoop jumping and faxing to get ONE SCREW. They really know how to make a customer happy. So I really am interested and now you know my love of Sharp. Great picture thanks to Z-Mad's calibration but a lot of early aggravation too. Now you have a major failure a month out of warranty? Wasn't it extended when you registered it online or was that a different product?

No extension was offered.  They did offer to sell an extended warranty at time of purchase, but I really don't believe in those for anything.  They cost too much and I've never used one on anything I've bought (major appliances, cars, etc.).

 

I can see their point, to an extent.  You have to put some limit on your warranty, or everyone will come to you for every little thing.  However, with it being just a month outside the warranty, when push came to shove, we would always give in since 'the customer is always right'.  To me this example is unacceptable, though.  I could understand if I had moved the thing around a bunch and mishandled it, but it went directly from Sam's Club to my entertainment center and it's been there since.

 

I still haven't received the e-mail yet.  One thing that might screw me is I'm moving next week due to a military move so it's going to be another month before anyone can service the tv...we'll see and I'll be sure to keep this forum up to date.

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post #559 of 644 Old 05-26-2014, 10:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nwin View Post

Ok this is weird...it's gone now???
I didn't buy it on a CC with extra warranty...just bought it April 16, 2013.

It seems like the place where it was appearing was basically the top of the lower Direct TV bar...see this image:

http://imgur.com/WooJd5w

Is burn-in possible on a display like this?  Maybe that's what it was from?


Of course, now that I've just been staring at smaller pieces of the TV, I'm noticing something different.  Check this image out:
http://i.imgur.com/sPd0NQCl.jpg

See the lighter, almost white spots?  It's like light is almost tearing through, like if you poked some holes in a piece of paper and let light shine through them.  You can only tell when it's showing lighter colors in the background of that area...if it's darker color, you can't notice them at all.

nwin - I had the same issue with those white dots you are seeing. I posted this a few months back on this forum and found that there were a few others with the same problem. It seems to me that this is a known issue on this set since Sharp offered up a replacement soon after I submitted pictures of the screen - no additional questions asked.

What was interesting in the replacement (under the warranty) was that I ended up picking up a new Sony set and not another Sharp.

As for the Sharp CS, I guess it's YMMV depending on who picks up the call or what the issue is. In my case, I didn't have any issues CS and everything was handled professionally and efficiently.

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post #560 of 644 Old 05-29-2014, 07:20 AM
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Calibrating proper/consistent colors on my 650 has become a very frustrating endeavor. I'm reluctantly coming to the conclusion that attaining accurate color reproduction on this particular TV in any mode - is next to impossible. Blues within Game mode are too bright/dominant, and while Blues within Movie mode are more subdued, this mode paints and smears a dominant Green hue over everything. Reds are better controlled, but remain inconsistent - in any mode - ie: too Purpl'ish in Movie mode and too Orang'ish in Game mode.

Proper grey-scale settings are critical on this HDTV (for natural black/white contrasts) ... and thankfully ... they can be set quite accurately in any mode, even in Game mode which doesn't provide a 10 point setting.

I've tried near every calibration setting available here and abroad, plus my own. Some are more successful than others, all were compromised. Some "professional-reviews" on this TV are wrong, esp the CNET hack who published a truly lazy review with incorrect data.

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post #561 of 644 Old 05-29-2014, 06:45 PM
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Originally Posted by TB1x9 View Post

Calibrating proper/consistent colors on my 650 has become a very frustrating endeavor. I'm reluctantly coming to the conclusion that attaining accurate color reproduction on this particular TV in any mode - is next to impossible. Blues within Game mode are too bright/dominant, and while Blues within Movie mode are more subdued, this mode paints and smears a dominant Green hue over everything. Reds are better controlled, but remain inconsistent - in any mode - ie: too Purpl'ish in Movie mode and too Orang'ish in Game mode.

Proper grey-scale settings are critical on this HDTV (for natural black/white contrasts) ... and thankfully ... they can be set quite accurately in any mode, even in Game mode which doesn't provide a 10 point setting.

I've tried near every calibration setting available here and abroad, plus my own. Some are more successful than others, all were compromised. Some "professional-reviews" on this TV are wrong, esp the CNET hack who published a truly lazy review with incorrect data.

tb1

Hey TB1x9, sorry to read about your frustration... But believe me, it is not impossible to calibrate this TV to beautiful and very accurate colors and overall picture quality. However, it will indeed take proper equipment and calibration software to do it. What you are experiencing is simply the fact that one often cannot literally translate settings from one set to another even if they are the same model. Each set needs its own calibration if you are looking for truly "perfect" settings for your set. I calibrated joe221's set and we achieved very accurate colors, and the picture overall looked quite amazing. If you are really looking to get the full potential out of your TV, you may want to consider having it properly calibrated. I am sure you would be amazed with how good the picture can look on this TV... Anyway, good luck wink.gif
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post #562 of 644 Old 05-30-2014, 03:18 AM
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Hey TB1x9, sorry to read about your frustration... But believe me, it is not impossible to calibrate this TV to beautiful and very accurate colors and overall picture quality. However, it will indeed take proper equipment and calibration software to do it. What you are experiencing is simply the fact that one often cannot literally translate settings from one set to another even if they are the same model. Each set needs its own calibration if you are looking for truly "perfect" settings for your set. I calibrated joe221's set and we achieved very accurate colors, and the picture overall looked quite amazing. If you are really looking to get the full potential out of your TV, you may want to consider having it properly calibrated. I am sure you would be amazed with how good the picture can look on this TV... Anyway, good luck wink.gif

Hey Z-Mad ... thanks for your reply. I'm not so certain that "proper" calibration would solve my issues, and perhaps, it would only confirm my position. To a certain degree I am ""calibrating" using the Disney WOW disk. I'm also not convinced that individual TV's of similar models are that much different from each other, this based on my owning 2 and others I've witnessed. Certainly I expect some differences to exist on an individual basis, but it should stand to reason that specific models would share the same consistencies, thereby the sharing of individual calibrations shouldn't yield massive differences - that have become apparent, not only here on this forum, but amongst the "professional-reviewers".

I can safely say that both my 640 & 650 shared more in relation to color rendition than they differed.

One thing that would have been telling is viewing post-calibration data. This would have helped identify differences.

Anyway, it may sound like my frustration is preventing me from enjoying or recommending this TV, but that's not the case. I truly believe that this set offers good value, but like everything in life, certain compromises are based on expectations. My frustration stems from the fact that I cannot get the color of Movie mode to look like Game mode. These are the only two settings worth a damn to me. Game mode represent the vast majority of viewing, but Game mode is not always an option depending on the source (ie: direct usb).

As for Joe's calibration, your color settings were far off-the-mark on my set using the WOW blue filter. HOWEVER, your grey-scale settings were perfect. In fact, I used those grey-scale settings as a benchmark to set the 10 point setting in Movie mode. Proper grey-scale settings offer superior overall color rendition, especially with background scenes.

So Z-MAD, thank you very much for your contributions here, very useful. If I may further ask, on your TV (or Joe's) ... do the blues ramp differently between Game and Movie mode? Are the Reds in Movie mode more purple in nature compared to Game mode, even after calibration?

It should also be noted that since I set my BR player to NOT output 24fps, I don't suffer any SOE issues. In fact, to my surprise, motion is near perfect on my set using a 1080p BR source (HMDI). Other sources, such as the TV own USB read movies, are not quite as free from motion artifacts. Sources that must rely on the dismal motion performance offered by Sharp's own internal "film-mode" processing - will inevitably suffer motion artifacts.

Anyway, my fiddling continues, and once I find some consistency, I'll eventually post my results ...

....

below is my 10 point setting for Movie mode ...

Point/R/G/B
1/0/0/0
2/0/0/-2
3/-2/0/-4
4/-2/0/-4
5/-2/0/-4
6/2/0/-4
7/2/0/-4
8/3/0/-4
9/3/0/-7
10/-15/-15/-21
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post #563 of 644 Old 05-31-2014, 02:00 AM
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Hey tb1,

I'm certainly glad if my settings from joe's TV were helpful with the gray-scale. One thing that should give you a good clue though regarding transferability of settings is indeed your own finding that the settings from joe's set apparently did not work on your TV in terms of color accuracy (or yielded massive differences), yet on joe's set they are practically perfect as the post calibration report I have posted also shows. The grayscale on the other hand apparently translated very well. It only goes to show that transferring settings sometimes works but often doesn't, as your own case indicates. Even if there are certainly some general similarities, each calibration is always a bit unique to each set. Also, as I am sure you know, WOW disc and the blue filter, although helpful tools to some extent, cannot measure up to actual calibration with a colorimeter, The filter method is not very reliable and can indeed lead to the feeling of not being able to get the colors right, but again, I assure you with proper equipment it is indeed possible on these Sharp TV's. I have calibrated 640U and 650U models and each time was able to get a great color accuracy. Although 640 and 650 are practically the same model just different production year, the settings on the sets I calibrated came out completely different for the same results. Your reasoning would suggest this as very odd or unlikely, yet it is the reality. Just sharing with you what I know to be the fact based on actual measurements and colorimeter calibrations, which I hope gives you some answers to your question regarding how the post calibration measurements compare, or showcases that you can get your TV to look awesome, but that it will take more calibration than what WOW disc can offer wink.gif

I have only calibrated the game mode on joe's TV, as it is indeed the only good mode on Sharps. Movie is the alternative when absolutely necessary, the rest of the modes are pretty much useless, I totally agree with you. Actually, PC mode isn't bad either, but rather similar to movie mode overall. Anyway, on the 640 model, I have calibrated game and movie mode to the point of them looking identical, apart from the red color. This is indeed a general similarity you have observed, Movie mode gives more purplish skin tones for example and carries a slight greenish tint overall even when accurately calibrated. That's just how sharp programs that mode... But the difference is indeed only noticeable in direct comparison, and with a lot of content not noticeable at all. So you can get the two modes to be just about identical, but they are indeed not 100% identical even after calibration. I hope this is helpful info for you.

Cheers...
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post #564 of 644 Old 05-31-2014, 05:53 PM
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Z ... thanks for your reply ...

Well, as you very well understand, using the WOW disc/filter includes limitations, but it's still very much a useful tool. And, like ANY TOOL, it's full measure is based on ones own subject matter education & experience, due-diligence and preference. That's an ongoing process.

Z, the most important problem associated with the ALL settings I've tried, is that VISUALLY it's easy to see that certain colors remain wrong. A final calibration can be done simply & visually, simply by creating a reference. A reference picture can be as simple as a HQ picture of an image within your home, preferably with many shades of colors, then transferring that image to HDTV. Does that Blueberry, Apple or Orange still look like the reference picture, or the real thing?

I understand the possibility of set-to-set differences between identical models, but I still don't believe they should be as vast as you've indicated. Now, I'm not saying you're wrong ... rather that THAT'S a big problem in which the manufacturer(s) must soon resolve. All these TV are factory set, and should be near identical, considering today's technology. Differences can be attributed; allowable variances, temperature, age and break-in. But remember, these TV all use identical panels (XGen) which have been in production for many years. Vast differences should no longer exist. If set-to-set differences are as wide as you claim, then the manufacturing process (or processes after) must be questioned. Personally, I think these TV's share far more than they differ, as my two did (different model#, same panel). If vast differences indeed exist, something else may be at play here ...
.
Again, the reason I find this set frustrating is because I know it can illustrate excellent colors. Just the same way as I knew this TV could play without the vast judder and motion artifacts that continually plague many here. Using Game mode on this TV has been nothing but a revelation, THANKFULLY I came across your posts concerning that very subject. Actually, it's not so much a "revelation" as it's a requirement! Unfortunately, Game mode isn't without it's own inherited problems, one being gamma, the other it's obsessive Blue tint on everything (likewise, Movie mode has an all too obvious Green tint issue). These problems I've witnessed on EVERY 640/650 to date, irrespective of store/home. I consider these factory set problems!

However, since we've resumed discussion, I've made progress ...

Here are my latest and best settings to date (and I've tried & documented many):
game mode
contrast:32
brightness:2
color:0
tint:+5
sharpness: -4 [dull-edge(-6) bright-edge(-2)]
cms
hue/sat/value
R:0/-2/+10
Y:0/-3/-7
G:0/0/-7
C:+10/+3/
B:-5/-30/+25
M:+5/0/+4
color temp:middle
r(L+3)(H+2)
g(L0)(H-2)
b(L-9)(H-8)
gamma: -3
all processing: off.

tb1
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post #565 of 644 Old 05-31-2014, 11:05 PM
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tb1, no worries. Again, I have been glad to share with everyone here as much info (incl. settings and calibration reports) and experience as I have had with these sets, if they are helpful to anyone to enjoy their TV to its fullest.

I can only encourage you to take the next step at some point and get a true calibration with a colorimeter done. I assure you it will be a huge revelation of how "impossible" it is to properly calibrate any TV by eye (otherwise one wouldn't need colorimeters and the whole industry of device calibration wouldn't exist). You adjust one image to a reference and think you got it, then suddenly it looks off with another image or source - all because the eye cannot measure colors at a level needed for true calibration. The reason I say all this is that everything you described is exactly what I have personally gone through myself: trying out shared settings, creating references, comparing images and different content from different sources, etc. etc. It all makes sense in the realm of adjusting your TV settings by eye. I also went through the phase of the same type of frustration with imperfections until I "broke down" and started getting into real calibration, invested into equipment, learned from other (incl. professional) calibrators, and a whole new world opened up to me in terms of picture quality. I used to share your opinion exactly on all points, but have come to realize that panels do differ and that picture settings are sensitive enough when viewed through a colorimeter, that the manufacturers simply cannot deliver identical accuracy of colors and grayscale even in today's hi-tech mass production, otherwise they'd do it (and maybe someday they will be able to). Sure, all sets will have the same general tendencies (like the green tint of the movie mode, or certain hue or gamma difference between modes, etc), but once you start looking into fine details with a colorimeter in pursuit of "perfection", that's when the fine differences become apparent (especially with color accuracy) that the naked eye could never measure, but which creates huge differences in the final result and overall picture. Anyway, I can hardly explain or describe it more, it is something you would simply have to experience to be convinced (an eye-opener as it were). Anyway, just sharing the experience with you, particularly because I went through all those same things you are going through...

Certainly enjoy tweaking your TV, which can be a lot of fun, and good luck...
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post #566 of 644 Old 06-02-2014, 08:01 AM
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tb1, no worries. Again, I have been glad to share with everyone here as much info (incl. settings and calibration reports) and experience as I have had with these sets, if they are helpful to anyone to enjoy their TV to its fullest.

I can only encourage you to take the next step at some point and get a true calibration with a colorimeter done. I assure you it will be a huge revelation of how "impossible" it is to properly calibrate any TV by eye (otherwise one wouldn't need colorimeters and the whole industry of device calibration wouldn't exist). You adjust one image to a reference and think you got it, then suddenly it looks off with another image or source - all because the eye cannot measure colors at a level needed for true calibration. The reason I say all this is that everything you described is exactly what I have personally gone through myself: trying out shared settings, creating references, comparing images and different content from different sources, etc. etc. It all makes sense in the realm of adjusting your TV settings by eye. I also went through the phase of the same type of frustration with imperfections until I "broke down" and started getting into real calibration, invested into equipment, learned from other (incl. professional) calibrators, and a whole new world opened up to me in terms of picture quality. I used to share your opinion exactly on all points, but have come to realize that panels do differ and that picture settings are sensitive enough when viewed through a colorimeter, that the manufacturers simply cannot deliver identical accuracy of colors and grayscale even in today's hi-tech mass production, otherwise they'd do it (and maybe someday they will be able to). Sure, all sets will have the same general tendencies (like the green tint of the movie mode, or certain hue or gamma difference between modes, etc), but once you start looking into fine details with a colorimeter in pursuit of "perfection", that's when the fine differences become apparent (especially with color accuracy) that the naked eye could never measure, but which creates huge differences in the final result and overall picture. Anyway, I can hardly explain or describe it more, it is something you would simply have to experience to be convinced (an eye-opener as it were). Anyway, just sharing the experience with you, particularly because I went through all those same things you are going through...

Certainly enjoy tweaking your TV, which can be a lot of fun, and good luck...


I agree 100%. For under a hundred bucks one can get a measuring tool. Not doing so, there is NO WAY even a trained professional will get the benefit of what this TV offers. It is possible to get essentially (ie, within the margin of error and visual acuity) perfect (ie, to spec) color space and color temperature on this set. But it is impossible to do so without instrumentation. And it is not possible to do with by copying any else's settings.
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post #567 of 644 Old 06-07-2014, 02:05 PM
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Hi all,

I'm noticing something one my 70" 650 that I don't think I noticed until recently. I have more dead space at the top of the image then I remember. I thought at first it was a letter boxed image but, nope. Then I thought maybe my Onkyo AVR was doing something so I switched to my TWC cable which is direct input, no hardware. Still there. I measured it at approximately a third of an inch from the top plastic edge. Is this a failure or did I just not notice it before? The sides and bottom are maybe a pixel or two in from the plastic frame, the top is essentially a bar. Is it me?
Thanks.

Joe

I attached a picture with a good representation of it.

Joe in West Los Angeles, CA
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post #568 of 644 Old 06-07-2014, 02:15 PM
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Hi all,

I'm noticing something one my 70" 650 that I don't think I noticed until recently. I have more dead space at the top of the image then I remember. I thought at first it was a letter boxed image but, nope. Then I thought maybe my Onkyo AVR was doing something so I switched to my TWC cable which is direct input, no hardware. Still there. I measured it at approximately a third of an inch from the top plastic edge. Is this a failure or did I just not notice it before? The sides and bottom are maybe a pixel or two in from the plastic frame, the top is essentially a bar. Is it me?
Thanks.

Joe

I attached a picture with a good representation of it.

mine looks about the same. sides and bottom are a little closer like you said. your pic shows a little bit of black bars but i can see where the pixels stop.

Xbox One Gamertag = The Barbeerian

PS4 PSNID = The-Barbeerian
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post #569 of 644 Old 06-08-2014, 08:39 PM
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Thought I'd post this in the Official thread as my own thread is getting no visibilty, and I am desperate for any help to solve the issue I am having surrounding this TV. Reposted below:

 

 

Hey guys, got a headscratcher for you (or at least for me).  In a nutshell, got a new TV that is having problems receiving audio/video/both from some of my current equipment.

 

To start out, I used to own a 50" Panasonic Viera TC-P50S2 plasma TV.  By used to, I mean that I returned from a business trip last week to find my TV completely and utterly dead.  No capacitor whine, no blinking lights, no response whatsoever.  Right now I have the back panel off as I am looking to see if there are any blown fuses or other obvious signs of repairable damage, but for all intents and purposes it appears to be gone.  I suspect that the cause could have been a lightning strike as there was some severe storm activity while I was gone but no other equipment (I'll get to that part) on the same powerstrip appears damaged.  With no other option, I went and purchased a 60" Sharp Aquos LC-60LE650U LED unit as i managed to take advantage of some local sales/incentives, and it was a now-or-never kind of situation for getting a new unit.

 

However, as soon as I got back home and plugged everything in, there were a few problems.  Almost all of the peripherals I hooked in did not work as expected.  I checked all the connections, made sure the power/settings were OK on the TV, but nothing seemed to work.  I even went and bought (and then immediately returned) a similar but smaller TV to test the I/O on the equipment, thinking that there was a problem with the TV.  Turns out the issues on the Sharp were replicated on the smaller unit, so it looked like that the issue does not lie with the TV.  I also connected a laptop I had sitting around with HDMI and got picture/sound on the TV with no issue. After doing a lot more research and playing with additional settings, I have hit a standstill to make everything work again.  So here is the setup on my TV as it stands, along with any and all issues I still encounter.

 

There are four HDMI inputs, and all are being used, so I'll go in order of connection.

 

 


HDMI 1 (with ARC) - Sony BDV-E390 Home Theater System
Current issues: No video

 

Comments:  If I completely power off the BluRay player, as in unplug it and not just hit the power button, it will display the BluRay logo loading screen, but then will no longer display video.  The audio still seems to work, as I can connect the TV via optical to the system and still get full sound.  Also, I can put in a disc and hear it, but still not see it.  The Aquos link is active on the system, so turning off the TV will also turn off the BluRay, and also adjusting the volume on the player will show the tv volume being altered.  There was also no video when plugged via HDMI into the smaller tv and a spare PC monitor (albeit a HDMI-to-DVI cable). So it looks like there is no issue at all with the audio, but just the video.  Any activity with the system I am doing blind, and the functions/operations are being performed by pressing buttons on the front of the receiver or with 'master' function buttons on the remote.
 

 

HDMI 2 - Xbox 360
Current issues - No audio when Display Discovery is enabled

 

Comments: Upon connecting the Xbox back up, I got video, but no audio.  Also, the boot time was substantially longer than before, roughly several minutes.  Checking online, I found out that when plugged into some TVs, there is no audio over HDMI when the Display Discovery mode is set to Auto (there is a video that explains this issue/correction here ).  Disabling it and setting the video/audio output settings manually resolved this problem.  Not sure if this helps point to a setting on the TV that is causing the other device to fail, but I wanted to point it out.

 


HDMI 3 - Google Chromecast
Current issues - Unable to be powered via HDMI only

 

Comments: This is the only device that *almost* worked on the first try.  I get full video/audio without a problem, no connection issues and no settings had to be set beforehand.  It was a literal plug-and-play.  Of note however; this was the only device that was not plugged in to the old TV when it died, which made me suspect that the others were damaged via their HDMI connections to the now dead plasma.  As for the sole problem; the Chromecast is 1.4 spec, and so is the TV.  According to both parties, it is supposed to be powered by the HDMI port and wouldnt need the external USB powersource.  Unfortunately, I have not found a way for it to work without the USB cable plugged in.  Again, there might be a TV system setting preventing it to be powered by HDMI alone.

 


HDMI 4 - Comcast Xfinity PR150BNM Digital HD receiver
Current issues - No video, no audio

 

Comments: No output with HDMI at all.  I can connect the cable box to the TV with the Component connection to get video, and connect the box directly to the BluRay with the optical to get audio.  So it *works* but now with the HDMI connection.  No amount of powercycling or getting the cable company to send a 'refresh' signal has caused it to change.  This is not as important a device to troubleshoot as I can always request a new one from Comcast to replace the (assumed defective) device.

 


So this is how everything stands, and any and all help on getting everything to connect with HDMI only and all the I/O gremlins iron out would be awesome.  I hope the links for the device are sufficient; I can add more info as needed.  Thanks!

 

* also, if someone knows off the top of their head how to fix a dead Viera unit...

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post #570 of 644 Old 06-10-2014, 04:57 PM
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Hey guys. I never got the chance to really go through all of the pages to see if it has been talked about already but I own the 70le550u. I bought it today and am having issues getting my sound bar to work. It was hooked up to my 55 Sony through optical and everything plugged into HDMI fed through the sound bar. Now I'm plugging it into the optical on the sharp the same way and no volume. I've searched the settings and options to no avail. Any help would be appreciated.
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