Official Samsung UNxxF8000 Owners Thread - Page 258 - AVS Forum
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post #7711 of 7727 Old 10-15-2014, 11:10 AM
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Originally Posted by zephyrzone View Post
I got my 65" delivered yesterday. The delivery guys weren't trying to hang out and wait for me to inspect the set. Just plugged it in to ensure it powered up, even despite my insistence that I'd tip them handsomely to wait. I could have held them hostage and not signed the paperwork until I checked but it was 6am and I was exhausted.

The good news is that after inspecting the set thoroughly I have found zero problems (yet). There is extremely minor flashlighting in the lower left corner, like all Samsung's, but it's almost not worth mentioning. Basically not there, but I'm incredibly sensitive to the effect. I doubt even the most professionals would see it unless staring at it in the dark for many minutes. I consider this panel to be effectively perfect. 9.7 out of 10.

For reference, regarding the earlier posts about the 7150, I just returned that tv after owning it for 2 weeks. The only reason it went back is because the flashlighting on that set in the lower left was too noticeable. The screen uniformity sucked big time, but I completely fixed it by massaging the screen. The flashlight wouldn't go away and it bothered the hell out of me. I almost lived with it because the PQ was fantastic.

The 7150 and 8000 are remarkably similar. 3 things put the 8000 on top (at least in the U.S.). Panel uniformity is freaking perfect out of the box (but the 7150 can probably be fixed like I did). Virtually no flashlight. The local edge dimming is a MAJOR advantage. Believe it. For some reason the 7150 had almost no lag even with AMP turned on. The 8000 lags, but not enough to bother me. Competitive gamers will want to use game mode. This was a big surprise from the 7150 and I would recommend it over the 8000 if it's purely a gaming monitor.

However, despite supposedly poorer black levels, the 7150 picture looked very similar to me. Blacks were crushed at the low end and it was noticeable but not a deal breaker. To my eyes, the contrast looked the same on both sets. With local dimming turned on the 8000 though, dark scenes and nearly black scenes are jet black. Sometimes I can't even tell if the tv is on. The function works THAT well. Be sure to turn black tone on low to get the most out of the compensation. The software+ hardware dimming combo is a knockout.

Here's the thing. I got the 8000 for $250 more than the 7150. For that money, the upgrade was worth it. If the price delta was a bit greater, I wouldn't have switched. The 7150 is spectacular if you get a decent panel, but I was concerned it would take multiple returns to find one I could live with. Additionally, the lower lag of the 7150 with AMP on is a real advantage.

In the end I chose the better blacks and less crushing over the lower lag not to mention a near flawless panel. For anyone looking at these two sets I'd say it comes down to price and panel lottery. If the price is close, get the 8000. If you can't find one or can't swing the difference, the 7150 is truly a wonderful set assuming you have the motivation to return a few tv's until you get a panel you like.

I certainly don't feel the initial retail price difference between the two was worth it, but now that the 8000 is heavily discounted, I would try to find one.
The local dimming really gives this set a plasma like quality with the lights out.
Thanks for the write-up, I know there has been a lot of requests for a comparison between the two.
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post #7712 of 7727 Old 10-16-2014, 12:22 AM
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Stand finally finished and everything starting to get back to normal. The set itself is gorgeous, looks great despite it's massive size, very sleek. Started with buzzard's settings and tweaked along the way - I personally like the features like Dynamic Contrast (low) and Smart LED (standard).

Black level is not as great as I was hoping on certain test patterns (like a 5% IRE square surrounded by all black), really good on others, and very good with content - and the Cinema Black works very, very well to keep those black bars dead black. Color and saturation are perfect. My light and dark grey screen uniformity leaves nothing to complain about, and a full black screen completely shuts the lights off, but an almost black full screen shows a little bit of light bleed on the lower left corner and middle/upper right side. Nothing major, and some massaging may eliminate it altogether.

Here are a few shots.
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post #7713 of 7727 Old 10-16-2014, 04:00 AM
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congrats and nice setup. I am sure you will enjoy for a long time.

Samsung UN75F8000 LED TV, NAD T-777 (7.2 Receiver), Oppo 103, Sony PS4, Panamax MR-5100, 7 Paradigm Reference series 8" in ceiling speakers (AMS-150R) - 30 degree tilting speakers, 2 Paradigm SE Sub, universal remote MX-450, universal advanced RF base station MRF-3501. Pics here.
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post #7714 of 7727 Old 10-16-2014, 06:07 AM
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Originally Posted by SteveCallas View Post
Stand finally finished and everything starting to get back to normal. The set itself is gorgeous, looks great despite it's massive size, very sleek. Started with buzzard's settings and tweaked along the way - I personally like the features like Dynamic Contrast (low) and Smart LED (standard).

Black level is not as great as I was hoping on certain test patterns (like a 5% IRE square surrounded by all black), really good on others, and very good with content - and the Cinema Black works very, very well to keep those black bars dead black. Color and saturation are perfect. My light and dark grey screen uniformity leaves nothing to complain about, and a full black screen completely shuts the lights off, but an almost black full screen shows a little bit of light bleed on the lower left corner and middle/upper right side. Nothing major, and some massaging may eliminate it altogether.

Here are a few shots.
Wow, Steve, that looks great! You built that stand? Amazing. I'm jealous of all the consoles you have, too.

What were you using for the source of those clips? The PQ is stunning.
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post #7715 of 7727 Old 10-16-2014, 06:50 AM
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Yes, I designed and built that stand - I tried so hard not to, but after looking at virtually every tv stand in the market today, nothing had the dimensions I needed. I use a vertical center speaker, so height needed to be around 34", and my Onkyo 3010 needs a good 22"+ depth.

I'll take a better picture when everything is back to normal.

Those pictures were various 1920 x 1080 images I've collected from the internet over the years (have ~100) saved on to my PS3. If you want any, you can pm me.
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post #7716 of 7727 Old 10-16-2014, 04:24 PM
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Refresh Rate

So is the refresh rate the same on any tv when comparing the same rate?

Example:

I could spend about $3,200 on a UN65HU8500 that has a refresh rate of only 120 Hz OR I could spend $2,700 on a UN65H8000AFXZA that has a 240Hz refresh rate.

So unless I'm missing something I'm spending $500 more on a 4K TV but that does not have as good RR as the lower priced 2014 model.
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post #7717 of 7727 Old 10-17-2014, 01:02 PM
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This depends a great deal on whether or not you play video games. If you game quite a bit, like I do, the up conversion to 4k introduces a lot of lag and artifacts. I know this because I had a Sony x9. Beautiful for movies/broadcast. Horrible for PS4. I doubt the other panels are any better. 240hz matters much more for gaming than other content.

If you don't game, or aren't very particular about it, 4k would be the way to go IMO. The Vizio P series looks like a knockout and of course the Sammy HU appears great.
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post #7718 of 7727 Old Yesterday, 03:19 PM
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Finally everything back to normal
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post #7719 of 7727 Old Yesterday, 03:20 PM
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That's a helluva job Steve. Kudos

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post #7720 of 7727 Old Yesterday, 05:21 PM
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Finally everything back to normal
OMG! That is absolutely gorgeous! Very impressive all around.
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post #7721 of 7727 Old Yesterday, 06:08 PM
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65" F8000 Update and Lessons Learned

The reason for this post is that even after searching and being involved with high end TV's for many years, I almost never see anything helpful regarding how a TV LOOKS while gaming. Or specifically, how well motion processing works to smooth out the games on an LCD. Almost all data is around latency and for many gamers, myself included, who aren't highly competitive online players, even latency in the 100ms range is acceptable (if not ideal). This goes largely understated when researching TVs and I'm afraid it is turning people away from excellent choices. Namely, the 7150.

So after going through a Sony 4k X9, then a Sammy 7150 (my first Samsung TV ever, they've always been Sony's), I'm now the proud owner of a F8000. I just wanted to post a few thoughts related to tips for gaming and comparisons to the 7150.

Compared to the 7150
The more I use the F8000 the more it impresses me, but honestly, the more it reminds me of how truly impressive the 7150 is. I mentioned before that the 7150 had a tendency to crush blacks, but aside from most purists I don't think it was at a point where it would bother anyone. The payoff is contrast heavy picture that appears much better than the calibration tools would indicate. Whatever tricks Samsung is employing, they mostly work. I found viewing content on the 7150, 2D and 3D to be truly delightful. In fact, coming from the X9 and given the 7150 price point I was expecting a very average experience (as CNET eluded to). Instead, I found the TV to product a beautiful and rich picture for all content (after calibration, of course). The 3D was equally as amazing and despite being very sensitive to flicker, I didn't notice any in the glasses.

After massaging away the awful panel clouding I was left with a great looking screen except for the lower left corner which exhibited major flashlight. Even turning the brightness down to 7 only helped so much. Unless the screen content was quite bright, the flashlight was visible.

Additionally, due to the lack of local dimming, content that was mostly black, appeared quite grey. It was more than obvious this was a well lit LED panel with no dimming efforts. I didn't find this to be distracting with most content, but it still bugged me. I would think that most average customers and even some with discerning taste would be extremely pleased with the 7150. If it had local dimming, it would be as good as it gets.

Of course, that's why we paid for the 8000...

F8000 and Gaming
This TV provides a very similar picture to the 7150. The PQ is a little more natural but the local dimming really helps keep the extra light bleed at bay. I had the Smart LED set on "High" and didn't notice much of a difference between that and standard. However, I DID notice, quite by accident, that turning this down from high to standard drastically improved latency in video games. I can't say how much as I have no way to test it, but "seat of the thumbs" feeling is far snappier. This explains why I thought the 7150 was faster for gaming (I think). Aside from any processor upgrade that was made, the lack of local dimming helped with latency. I never thought that this feature would affect latency, but it does. Not as much as AMP, but still very noticeable. I was happy with the game performance even using my Movie settings with Game mode OFF but the latency did make things feel more sluggish than I'd like.

Now with the SMART LED turned to standard, the controller inputs are noticeably faster. Not nearly as snappy as Game Mode, but anyone who isn't a hyper competitive online gamer will not be bother by this. In fact, I truly feel that leaving AMP on (standard) for gaming vastly improves the gaming experience. 30FPS games suddenly look like 120FPS games, it's astounding how crystal clear everything is and exactly what I was hoping for.

Another note regarding AMP is that I've been playing games with it on "smooth", assuming that was the best setting for the best PQ/least motion blur. My old 2010 Sony HX-800 was set to smooth to achieve the desired PQ effect (it too was a 240hz panel). It had hiccups and sometimes produced nasty artifacts, but I felt the trade-off was worth it. With the F8000 set to smooth, the PQ for motion processing is even better than the Sony (as one would expect after 4 years) but with the same artifacts and higher gaming latency.

So I tried "Standard" for AMP when playing PS4 and I was shocked. All of the AMP benefits were apparent, I can't tell any difference between this and "Smooth" yest almost all of the artificating is gone and the latency is lower. To my eyes there is NO difference AT ALL when gaming, except for the very positive benefit of far less artifacts (almost none).

The conclusion here, is that this is our primary/only TV and it has to do everything right. Since I play a great deal of console games and that's more than half the use of this TV, it MUST provide me with an incredible gaming experience while also providing very good 3D (I'm one of those weirdos that watch a lot of 3D) and PQ for Blu Ray and streaming. I have no broadcast content and the Smart features are not useful to me. I can conclusively say that 1)- This is a fantastic gaming TV as far as PQ is concerned, with the right settings. SMART LED= Standard and AMP= Standard. In fact, it's the best gaming TV I've used to date for PQ. The latency is much lower than I was expecting and that is an enormously pleasant surprise however, very competitive online gamers will probably be better off with one of the newer Sony's if latency is the primary concern and blur reduction isn't important.

For ME, this is hands down everything I've ever wanted in a TV and it excels at gaming- especially power of AMP to be so, so good while also cutting down on artifacts. I can say I'm amazed. The same applies to the 7150 and if I were a consumer who was buying a 2014 TV, the 7150 would be among my first choices. Gaming on that TV is splendid on all ways. The Achilles heel, as it were, is the high probability of corner flashlighting. If you get a decent panel or this doesn't bother you much, the 7150 is THE way to go for a 2014 gaming TV. Then, of course it has all of the other PQ benefits of being a fantastic telly.

However, the F8000 can still be found new online for only a few hundred dollars more, or possibly the same price. The gaming performance is about the same but I believe the latency across the board IS higher. But higher doesn't mean bad. I find it to also be a fantastic gaming TV. After watching it more at night I have noticed that even with local dimming on the bakground black levels aren't as dark as they fist appeared to me. My backlight is set to 10. No educated enthusiast would confuse this with a plasma. Sorry. That being said, the local dimming on the 8000 is stellar. There is some blooming around white objects (like credits) and the system can't quite make everything jet black, but it's close. With the Cinema Black featured enabled (I LOVE this feature) you'll see what real black looks like. There is no panel inconsistencies that I can detect, or clouding. The lower left corner has a hint of a flashlight, but you have to look hard to notice. In my amateur opinion, LED doesn't get much better than this, especially during the day. The Vizio P series may be better at night but it lacks 3D which was an issue for me and I have no idea how well the motion processing works in gaming.

Wow. That was much, much longer than I intended it to be. I was just going to post my gaming settings. Yeah, so for what it's worth put LED and AMP on Standard for the best gaming experience (if not the lowest lag). Get the 8000 if you want an LED that excels at everything. Get the 7150 if you want a 2014 TV. Sounds like the Vizio is a big win for nighttime viewing if you don't have any interest in 3D. Can't speak to gaming, but it can't be better than the 8000.
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post #7722 of 7727 Old Yesterday, 07:05 PM
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Nice write up, very informative. I tried some xbox 360 Skyrim the other night and it looked excellent. In regards to your second to last paragraph, you might want to try a few things to improve black levels further.

Try lowering your backlight - 10 is quite high for nightime viewing imo. I'm using 6.

Do you have Dynamic Contrast on? Try it at Low.

In your amp settings, do you have Clear Motion on? You should.

What is your gamma set at? I find -1 gives the best results for maintaining shadow detail but keeping dark areas dark.


The actual black level this set is capable of, under the right circumstances, is very low, lower than almost any other LCD out there. You just have to coax it a little bit to achieve it.
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post #7723 of 7727 Old Today, 02:25 AM
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Originally Posted by SteveCallas View Post
Nice write up, very informative. I tried some xbox 360 Skyrim the other night and it looked excellent. In regards to your second to last paragraph, you might want to try a few things to improve black levels further.

Try lowering your backlight - 10 is quite high for nightime viewing imo. I'm using 6.

Do you have Dynamic Contrast on? Try it at Low.

In your amp settings, do you have Clear Motion on? You should.

What is your gamma set at? I find -1 gives the best results for maintaining shadow detail but keeping dark areas dark.


The actual black level this set is capable of, under the right circumstances, is very low, lower than almost any other LCD out there. You just have to coax it a little bit to achieve it.
Thanks for the nice comment and the good suggestions, Steve!

I do have Dynamic Contrast on Low and have noticed it makes a nice positive difference.

Yes, I agree that 10 is too high for the backlight at night and found 7 is about right. However, I have a pathological need to simply every tech device and platform I own, even to the slight detriment of optimal performance. That being the case, I leave the TV at 10 which is a bit too bright for night viewing and a bit too low for daytime viewing, but since my girlfriend uses the TV frequently during the day I split the difference between 7 and 12 and hit 10 for both. Tonight, I'll lower it while I play PS4 just to get a taste.

I have a similar take on movies. I noticed that CLEAR is superb for all content except gaming. Gaming for me requires AMP to be set to standard to compensate for low frame rates and fast motion blurring. I love the fact that a 30FPS game can look like a 120FPS game with this setting on. It is among the most important factors to me in TV buying (motion processing during gameplay). Give that fact, and I find standard to be decent with most other content- some SOE, but not so much it bothers me- I've been leaving AMP on standard and have been quite happy. Ideally I'm going to program a macro into my new Harmony Smart Home Remote that changes AMP to clear when I select the BD-Player.

Speaking of which, I'm amazed by the new Harmony remote. I've used many versions over the years, but the Smart Home finally ticks all the boxes and is much easier to setup. A big plus is the simplified remote layout and ability to adjust my Philips Hue lighting. It finally feels like the future now that I hit *1* button, not pointed at anything in particular and my Marantz, PS3 and TV all come on, the kitchen light goes off and the living room lights dim almost instantly. Then I simply use the transport controls on the remote for the PS3 BD and life is good. I press "off" and the bluetooth and IR devices go off and the lights come back up to 100%. I didn't think the IR blaster would work without line of sight, but it does.

If I didn't play so many console games, I would have stuck with the Sony X9 which was an incredible set. Or I'd be on the hunt for a newer 4k. But since 4k console games won't be coming this generation (at least 5 years) and the upscaled PQ is very bothersome to me, I decided to get the best 1080p set I could and upgrade when the fundamental television technology gets better, again, probably 5 years. I'm thrilled that I have this TV, it's everything I wanted.

I am having problems with the ARC though. It may be my settings. I have started using the Smart Hub for Youtube and HBO GO and would love to get them pumped out of my 5.1 Marantz but it doesn't seem to work. The Monitor Out (labeled ARC) is connected to the ARC input on the TV but I don't get any sound. I've selected "external speakers" from the TV setup menu. Maybe I don't have the right audio input selected on the receiver (it's the entry level NR1403)? Any advice would be great. Youtube and HBOGo are nice to have and HBOGo is blocked by my service provide (Comcast) on all of my other devices.
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post #7724 of 7727 Old Today, 04:12 AM
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I am having problems with the ARC though. It may be my settings. I have started using the Smart Hub for Youtube and HBO GO and would love to get them pumped out of my 5.1 Marantz but it doesn't seem to work. The Monitor Out (labeled ARC) is connected to the ARC input on the TV but I don't get any sound. I've selected "external speakers" from the TV setup menu. Maybe I don't have the right audio input selected on the receiver (it's the entry level NR1403)? Any advice would be great. Youtube and HBOGo are nice to have and HBOGo is blocked by my service provide (Comcast) on all of my other devices.

This is not obvious, but I have the same set-up you do (F8000 and Marantz 1504). To get ARC to work, you need to turn on HDMI-CEC in both the Marantz and the TV. Then connect HDMI 3 on the TV to Monitor out on the Marantz. Then switch the Marantz to the TV audio channel. Then the TV will show you a 'Receiver' choice. You do NOT want to choose 'External Speakers' for ARC. That is what you choose if you don't if you send the A/V signal into a receiver first, which then passes the video only onto the TV.


If this doesn't work, send me a PM. I can help you.


Also, a lot of the stuff that comes through the Samsung apps, like YouTube, isn't 5.1 either. I tried too.


Finally, the big downer about ARC is that every time you turn on the TV, the Marantz will auto-switch to TV audio. So if you have a game console or BD player connected to the Marantz, you will have to manually switch it every time. This is why I actually stopped using ARC after a few months. I have found no way to get the Marantz to stop defaulting like that.
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post #7725 of 7727 Old Today, 04:14 AM
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Sorry, not "Clear" as the AMP setting, the option just below that, LED Clear Motion - off or on. It adds backlight strobing between frames, which improves motion, and perhaps more importantly, lowers light output slightly more.
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post #7726 of 7727 Old Today, 11:40 AM
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I'm watching the CBS NFL game, Colts vs Bengals, and I don't understand the comments about this or the H7150 needing a Standard mode calibration for more "pop". I'm in movie mode, backlight at 5 on my cable tv setting, with a window to my right, and it looks simply incredible, plenty of pop and depth to the image. Try increasing your color saturation on your cable or satellite input for more pop - I am at 65. Also make sure your black improving features are in effect.

This is the best I have ever seen a football game look. FOX HD otoh, which is 720, is not even close.

*actually this FOX game is 480i stretched to fill, yuck.

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post #7727 of 7727 Old Today, 03:37 PM
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All of a sudden my HDMI inputs stopped working. I confirmed it by attaching existing cable to another TV.
Called support, someone is supposed to call me back w/ a date.
Anyone else have this problem?
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