Official Samsung UNxxF8000 Owners Thread - Page 284 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #8491 of 8510 Old 07-13-2016, 07:14 PM
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Hi Guy`s ,

There is new firmware ! . 1215 , so far I have not noticed any difference in performance.

Just wanted to let the users on manual you got something to due !!

Later

Gary 
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post #8492 of 8510 Old 07-16-2016, 09:01 AM
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Originally Posted by jedi29 View Post
Hi Guy`s ,

There is new firmware ! . 1215 , so far I have not noticed any difference in performance.

Just wanted to let the users on manual you got something to due !!

Later

Gary 
Thanks Jedi ! Installed and "tested" ...like you said, no difference that I can see ...hmmmm ? TV works fine, streamed a movie via NAS, "smart" hub appears to be the same ...all looks the same as it did before. Maybe they fixed some underlying bugs and/or added some new ones
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post #8493 of 8510 Old 07-17-2016, 10:17 PM
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Originally Posted by arrow201 View Post
Thanks Jedi ! Installed and "tested" ...like you said, no difference that I can see ...hmmmm ? TV works fine, streamed a movie via NAS, "smart" hub appears to be the same ...all looks the same as it did before. Maybe they fixed some underlying bugs and/or added some new ones
You have a link for it? Samsung is still showing 1213.1 on the 46" page. Thanks,
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post #8494 of 8510 Old 07-18-2016, 07:23 AM
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Originally Posted by highstream View Post
You have a link for it? Samsung is still showing 1213.1 on the 46" page. Thanks,

I always go through the TV's menuing system to check/update to the latest firmware. If not there, maybe your region doesn't have it yet ?
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post #8495 of 8510 Old 07-28-2016, 09:54 AM
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Loss of Smarts

It looks like our "Smart" TV just keeps getting dumber. Here is a post from Silicondust - makers of the HDHomerun tuner and DVR software. Not sure how this affects us F8000 owners as the update number is well below the current.


Important - disable firmware auto-update on your Samsung TV today. Do not install the 1121 firmware.

Back in June we released HDHomeRun liveTV and DVR support for RUI supported by Samsung 2016 series 6, series 7, and series 8 smart TVs. DVR direct on your TV without a set-top-box.

Samsung firmware update 1121 is being pushed to Samsung 2016 TVs right now. This firmware release appears to remove the RUI feature that shipped with theseTVs.

Samsung TVs default to auto-updating the firmware - for the moment Silicondust recommends disabling the auto-update feature and not upgrading to 1121 until more information is available. Once updated there does not appear to be an easy way to roll back to the factory firmware.


We have reached out to Samsung for comment and will provide further updates as the situation is better understood.

Last edited by SnakeDoctor; 07-28-2016 at 09:57 AM.
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post #8496 of 8510 Old 07-28-2016, 11:13 AM
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Hi ,

I am running 1215 , firmware.

Also , just checked for an update and the "No Updates" window popped up on my F8K.

Perhaps the F8000 was never effected , I still have the RVU thing , but I have Comcast with there DVR service anyway.

Thanks though

Later ,

Gary 
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post #8497 of 8510 Old 07-29-2016, 05:54 PM
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I saw that article; appears to be for 2016 models, that firmware rev has no relation to the F8000 series. Maybe they'll disable in a later release ? Who knows? I'm still surprised the F8000 is still getting updates.
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post #8498 of 8510 Old 08-08-2016, 03:46 AM
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Originally Posted by DRN94 View Post
I'm really glad you are enjoying my settings! They really do bring out the best images the F8000 can produce. Happy viewing!
I too have enjoyed your settings, thanks! I've had the 60f8000 since it was released, and despite occasionally lurking on this site I still have some questions I was hoping you or someone else could answer.

My setup was PC and PS4 connected via hdmi through a Yamaha Rx-v677, now I am without the receiver due to lightning damage. The TV appears to be undamaged.

I use the PC both to game and viewing of movies via MPC-HC
I use the PS4 for gaming, streaming video and as a BD player
---------
My questions are:

1.) You have color space set to native rather than auto; I've noticed that the image appears a bit oversaturated (or perhaps I'm not used to it) Also on Expert Pattern 2 it slightly changes some of the colors as well as making the yellow bars a good bit darker. Can you expound a bit on when one setting would be preferable?

2.) I am using an AMD r9 390 GPU on my PC and the output preferences have me scratching my head. Firstly, I can choose between 8, 10 and 12 color bit depth. However, I assumed this TV was only able to display 8 bit depth. Is there a reason why I'd prefer to choose one over the other? Would this affect my TV display settings?

3.) The GPU also lists available spacing (i.e., ycbcr 422, ycbcr 444, rgb limited and rgb full). While I am familiar with the need to control HDMI black level and have it in sync with the input range, there are a few things I've noticed that have me confused.
-- any ycbcr selection greys out 'HDMI black level' to normal, indicating the TV knows what it's getting.
-- any RBG selection yields black level being selectable (normal or low).

I believe the f8000 can only display YCBCR 422, with the exception of PC mode allowing the panel to display full RBG. I have confirmed this through several test images.
Question is: Although the TV accepts all of these signals, what is the optimal setup?*** When PC gaming should I activate PC mode and set the GPU to send Full RGB; or would Game mode be sufficient and then just send ycbcr 422 to minimize display conversion from rgb?

4.) With the PS4 since I am using it to game and watch blu-rays, what would the optimal setup be with RGB range and deep color? I know either will work since I can adjust the HDMI back level, but is there a reason to prefer forced to FULL (since it defaults to Auto -limited)?

5.) I know the screen offers refresh rates of 23hz and 24hz but is there anything that switches the panel to 23.976hz for digital media at this framerate as well as for blu-rays?

I assumed that being in 24 hz would completely avoid judder or pulldown but apparently there are other issues with frame drops and still some pulldown due to the slight mismatch.

Sorry for the giant wall of text everyone!!! Thanks in advance

Hunter
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post #8499 of 8510 Old 08-08-2016, 01:47 PM
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Hi Hunter,

Quote:
Originally Posted by cavok84 View Post
My questions are:

1.) You have color space set to native rather than auto; I've noticed that the image appears a bit oversaturated (or perhaps I'm not used to it) Also on Expert Pattern 2 it slightly changes some of the colors as well as making the yellow bars a good bit darker. Can you expound a bit on when one setting would be preferable?
You are correct! I have a 2014 F8500 plasma that was reviewed by Tom's Hardware. According to them it was one of the best factory calibrations by Samsung. 2013 F8500's were a different story, the second year production models were spot on right out of the box with a minor excess of blue.

I lined both my 2013 F8000 and 2014 F8500 together and got the F8000 looking practically identical to the near perfect F8500. Comparing the desert sands and fleshtones in Star Wars the Force Awakens I was able to identify a clear over-saturation in red with Color Space set to Native. And as you mention yellow is not as bright on Native as well. I was able to correct that issue with going into the Custom Color Space.

I'll put my updated settings at the very end of this post.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cavok84 View Post

2.) I am using an AMD r9 390 GPU on my PC and the output preferences have me scratching my head. Firstly, I can choose between 8, 10 and 12 color bit depth. However, I assumed this TV was only able to display 8 bit depth. Is there a reason why I'd prefer to choose one over the other? Would this affect my TV display settings?

3.) The GPU also lists available spacing (i.e., ycbcr 422, ycbcr 444, rgb limited and rgb full). While I am familiar with the need to control HDMI black level and have it in sync with the input range, there are a few things I've noticed that have me confused.
-- any ycbcr selection greys out 'HDMI black level' to normal, indicating the TV knows what it's getting.
-- any RBG selection yields black level being selectable (normal or low).

I believe the f8000 can only display YCBCR 422, with the exception of PC mode allowing the panel to display full RBG. I have confirmed this through several test images.
Question is: Although the TV accepts all of these signals, what is the optimal setup?*** When PC gaming should I activate PC mode and set the GPU to send Full RGB; or would Game mode be sufficient and then just send ycbcr 422 to minimize display conversion from rgb?
Yes, the F8000 is only an 8-bit panel which is totally sufficient for rec.709 and full 1080p HD picture standards. You want RGB full (0-255) and 8-bit depth sent to the F8000. Just be sure to set HDMI Black Level to Normal if you are outputting RGB full or to Low if outputting RGB limited. The F8000 will not automatically set HDMI Black Level for most PC GPUs (like my now againg GTX 670) so I would double check it's on the correct setting. If it is on the wrong setting then you'll have crushed shadow detail or grayish black levels.

The F8000 can do full 4:4:4 color in PC Mode but this sacrifices contrast and picture settings. The F8000 will take in full 4:4:4 and convert it to YCBCR 4:2:2 or some color resolution which manifests in slight horizontal chroma blur. I would recommend letting the F8000 downscale the color resolution than have the GPU downscale the color resolution so set your GPU to ouput RGB full. It may produce the same result if outputting YCBCR 4:2:2 but I have a feeling that in some cases the F8000 may downscale the color resolution further. RGB full is a safe bet and I've gotten the highest possible color resolution with it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cavok84 View Post

4.) With the PS4 since I am using it to game and watch blu-rays, what would the optimal setup be with RGB range and deep color? I know either will work since I can adjust the HDMI back level, but is there a reason to prefer forced to FULL (since it defaults to Auto -limited)?
I have my PS4 set to RGB full and deep color set to automatic. Not sure if my eyes are playing tricks but deep color seems to hit the full saturation of rec. 709 while deep color turned off seems pale and under-saturated. I'm not seeing any clipping or over-saturation when looking at RGB YCM colorscales on the PS4's browser so it's not blowing out colors.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cavok84 View Post

5.) I know the screen offers refresh rates of 23hz and 24hz but is there anything that switches the panel to 23.976hz for digital media at this framerate as well as for blu-rays?

I assumed that being in 24 hz would completely avoid judder or pulldown but apparently there are other issues with frame drops and still some pulldown due to the slight mismatch.
This is an area I'm not so sure about. I can't even remember the last time I output native 24hz to the F8000. Ideally I'd assume the F8000 syncs to the input's refresh rate as long as it falls within 60hz. Perhaps the F8000 says "24hz" in the corner even though it is running to the thousandths place in precision. Again, not sure about this kind of thing and you may just need to experiment.

Hopefully that answers your questions. And as mentioned here are my current settings:

Picture Mode: Movie

Backlight: 20 (your preference/lighting environment)
Contrast: 100
Brightness: 45
Sharpness: 0
Color: 50
Tint (G/R): G50 R50
Picture Size: Screen Fit

Dynamic Contrast: Off
Black Tone: Off
Flesh Tone: 0

Color Space: Custom
Red: 47 0 0 (gets rid of the slight ruddy redness LED LCDs are prone to)
Green: 0 50 0
Blue: 0 50 0
Yellow: 60 60 0 (brightens to auto's yellow)
Cyan: 5 50 52 (lines up closer to auto)
Magenta: 46 0 50 (lines up closer to auto)

(I could have sworn my F8000 has a green push at first but over time or with updates my F8000 now lacks green. Yours may differ but try these new white balance settings, this makes my F8000 look practically identical to the factory calibrated 2014 F8500)
White Balance:
R-Offset: 23
G-Offset: 25
B-Offset: 19
R-Gain: 30
G-Gain: 36
B-Gain: 50

10p White Balance: Off
Gamma: -1

Color Tone: Warm2
Digital Clean View: Off
MPEG Noise Filter: Off
Film Mode: Auto2 (for cable boxes or coaxial, off for everything else)
HDMI Black Level: Normal (0-255 RGB full) or Low (16-235 RGB limited)
Auto Motion Plus: Clear (seems to have best motion clarity and little to no stutter)
Smart LED: High
Cinema Black: On

__________________________________________________

Picture Mode: Game Mode (Standard)
(I've since changed these settings to look as identical to Movie Mode as possible. Since video games are mastered to the same picture standards as movies you get all of the realism Movie Mode with the low input lag of Game Mode. Note that these settings also work on Standard Mode outside of Game Mode.

Backlight: 20 (your preference/lighting environment)
Contrast: 100
Brightness: 45
Sharpness: 0
Color: 50
Tint (G/R): G50 R50
Picture Size: Screen Fit

Dynamic Contrast: Off
Black Tone: Off
Flesh Tone: 0

Color Space: Custom (same color adjustments as movie mode
Red: 47 0 0
Green: 0 50 0
Blue: 0 50 0
Yellow: 60 60 0
Cyan: 5 50 52
Magenta: 46 0 50

White Balance:
R-Offset: 24
G-Offset: 25
B-Offset: 20
R-Gain: 0
G-Gain: 5
B-Gain: 15

10p White Balance: Off
Gamma: 0 (-1 looks the most realistic for movies but 0 is less straining on the eye for intense focused gaming)

Color Tone: Warm2
Digital Clean View: Off
MPEG Noise Filter: Off
HDMI Black Level: Normal (0-255 RGB full) or Low (16-235 RGB limited)
Smart LED: High
Cinema Black: On

__________________________________________________

Bonus Settings: (I was bored and wanted to see just how close I could get Dynamic looking somewhat like a proper picture setting. This is what I got:

Picture Mode: Dynamic

Backlight: 20 (your preference/lighting environment)
Contrast: 80 (gets rid of the pinkish clipping at the top of the greyscale)
Brightness: 48 (resurrects some shadow detail without increasing black level)
Sharpness: 0
Color: 50
Tint (G/R): G65 R35 (helps brings back some of the fleshtones)
Picture Size: Screen Fit

Color Tone: Standard
Digital Clean View: Off
MPEG Noise Filter: Off
HDMI Black Level: Normal (0-255 RGB full) or Low (16-235 RGB limited)
Auto Motion Plus: Clear
Smart LED: High
Cinema Black: On

I wouldn't really watch anything other than perhaps sports on these settings but thought I'd just share them for anyone who do loves Dynamic Mode.



Let me know if you have any more questions or find a problem with these settings. Also, sorry for the skyscraper of text but this is a lot of information. Thanks for reading!

DRN94

Last edited by DRN94; 08-15-2016 at 04:33 PM.
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post #8500 of 8510 Old 08-08-2016, 06:43 PM
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Thank you very much for the detailed answers! You are shaving off hours of experimenting and lurking, especially since I'm not very tech savvy. I'll try the updated settings asap. Few questions below as a follow up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DRN94 View Post
I'll put my updated settings at the very end of this post.
I'll give these a shot, but since each panel may differ how do you suggest I attempt to adjust my color spacing? I'm not exactly sure what each value does/means, would I just go to Expert pattern 2 and attempt to compare the adjustments with some other reference? No other TV so I'm unsure of how to do this.

Same goes for the white balance. I read your old post about looking at the grey scale and trying to get out any color push, but I'm not always sure if I want to adjust offset or gain, nor am I clear on what exactly I'm looking at for pattern 1.

Quote:
Yes, the F8000 is only an 8-bit panel which is totally sufficient for rec.709 and full 1080p HD picture standards
When in native the gamut is greater than rec.709 correct? Would there be any advantage or issue in using 10 bit? Would using only 8 bit cause clipping? Even if the display only can show 8bit I've wondered about optimal input... You already answered this so feel free to ignore my persistence regarding bit depth!

Quote:
his is an area I'm not so sure about. I can't even remember the last time I output native 24hz to the F8000. Ideally I'd assume the F8000 syncs to the input's refresh rate as long as it falls within 60hz. Perhaps the F8000 says "24hz" in the corner even though it is running to the thousandths place in precision. Again, not sure about this kind of thing and you may just need to experiment.
MCP-HC has some functionality to push your GPU to a certain refresh rate if you want to match the input with the source frame rate. This is advantageous while watching a movie due to typical HDMI being 60 hz, which will cause judder since the film is in 23.976.

My understanding is that the f8000 panel is always refreshing at 240Hz, even though it can only accept up to 60Hz input, and that if viewing a 30fps video-- for example-- the panel will display each frame 8 times. This is done unless dejudder (interpolation) is activated, in which case the panel will create some artificial frames. I don't believe the panel has any syncing capability in its refresh rate. My question about 23.976 was assuming the panel would have a specific mode for this operation.

The only time I see 1080p24 or anything other than 60 is when I force my GPU to send that signal to the TV. I've done this is past to attempt to match the film frame rate with the HDMI 60hz to avoid the inherent pulldown that the TV receives.

I may be misunderstanding this stuff but I'm fairly sure the panel doesn't change from 240hz... this allows the tv to accept 24hz,30hz and 60hz input without judder.

*** One thing I noticed a few weeks ago... I use to use automotion Blur red.: 10, De Judder: 0, LED: OFF
but only recently did I noticed this caused Judder!!! Or at least something resembling it!! Before this I never noticed any judder on the TV. So now I'm running 1 or 2 points of Dejudder. Perhaps I should turn down the deblur, but I'm confused why this would be happening.... The Clear setting does not use LED clear motion correct?

** On game mode: I recently tried 'Last of Us: remastered' on game mode, Standard mode and movie mode to check for blur and input lag.

--What I noticed was that in Standard mode (motion off) I saw blooming and some flickering of colors in foliage and other complex background, as well as some blur.

-- Movie mode with blur reduction ON corrected the blur and I didn't notice the blooming or flickering! Since that game is not a FPS or fighting game I never noticed any excessive input lag.

--Game mode (default settings), didn't notice any significant blooming or flickering, but the picture quality was crappy and the blur was still there. No noticeable input lag.

I guess the Blur is just a function of pixel response time, which Game mode can't really address (although I would think a high refresh rate monitor of 240hz would have fairly good pixel response time)

Perhaps in the past, before I became obsessed with getting my settings right, I never noticed the background blur and was accustomed to it. But with a fast game like Doom on my PC at ultra settings I'm bummed that I can't really afford to turn on deblur without risking input lag.

Thanks again for the detailed response. I'm sure now my colors are still too saturated and my white balance was based off your old setting. I'll try the new stuff as well as your new game mode settings to see what I get.

Hunter
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post #8501 of 8510 Old 08-09-2016, 09:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cavok84 View Post

I'll give these a shot, but since each panel may differ how do you suggest I attempt to adjust my color spacing? I'm not exactly sure what each value does/means, would I just go to Expert pattern 2 and attempt to compare the adjustments with some other reference? No other TV so I'm unsure of how to do this.

Same goes for the white balance. I read your old post about looking at the grey scale and trying to get out any color push, but I'm not always sure if I want to adjust offset or gain, nor am I clear on what exactly I'm looking at for pattern 1.
For color Expert Pattern 2 and this pattern work well. For reference just toggle back and forth between Custom and Auto or Custom and Native and adjust Custom until the color is to your liking. I found Auto to be a bit too greenish and Native to be a bit too reddish. The Custom settings I gave will vary between panel to panel technically but it's a small enough of an adjustment to cover the general ruddiness of LED LCD TVs and brighten the yellow as it seems to be a standard occurrence on the F8000.

For grayscale adjustments Expert Pattern 1 works very well although subtle shades of white are not visible on it. This pattern works well for fine tuning the White Balance Gain values. For adjusting the White Balance Offset use this pattern.

To summarize the general idea of White Balance is you're essentially adjusting the end points of the grayscale, hence it's called the "2-point" white balance. The 2-point white balance is good at getting a proper D6500K white point and D6500K shadow detail. While this generally means D6500K in the middle of the grayscale the tracking may not always be linear. The F8000 though is generally very linear as most very high end televisions are so as far as manual by-eye adjustments are concerned the 2-point white balance suffices. So unless you have a meter the 10-point White Balance should remain off.

To do the adjustments yourself just keep in mind that Offset affects the darkest black end of the grayscale and the Gain affects the lightest white end of the grayscale. I would recommend starting out at the default values (25 for everything) and try to identify any hues or tints, this can be very difficult and you'll want to move a value up and then back down to confirm hues/tints. Start with the Offset as it usually requires the least amount of adjustment compared to the Gain. The problem is your eye doesn't really know D6500K by memory so you're sort of going in making adjustments blindly. And since you have no calibrated set next to you for reference it's very hard for me to describe what you should see.

Starting with the darkest part of the picture you should only need to adjust the Offset by a few points. Never go above 25 for the Offset unless you're sure that it is not raising/tinting the black level. I noticed that if I set Green Offset to say 26 just above 25 my black level becomes slightly green and slightly brighter. This is not good, you more or less want the native shade of black of the TV which is a slight bluish hue. To counter act the bluish hue on my screen in the darker part of the picture I had to have a slight excess of green in the darkest parts of the picture. This is in line with green dithering on the F8500 plasma so it looks very natural and realistic in the darker shades that really matter. The very darkest shades (0 - 5) can survive with slight tints. The darker shades of above them (5 - 20) are far more important to get right. I recommend putting up images of browns like dark wood patterns or tanned skintones when adjusting Offset, dark gray T-shirts/fabric also are good references. Those are colors that the human eye and brain can quickly identify as looking "right" or not.

In general the brightest white should look very "pure" with an ever so slight warmth to it. Reddish and greenish tints are typically easy to identify. Beware of bluish tints, they are very easy to go unnoticed. After getting to a relatively "pure" white try dialing the Blue Gain back a few points and see if that slight warmth comes to the picture. Also note that any Red Gain above 30 will scrunch under the brightest shade of white, in other words if 255 is white then 254 will have a reddish hue while 255 won't. This is what you don't want. You want a very consistent temperature across the whole grayscale.

When you think you're all done take a look at banding gradient and from black to white it should be super smooth and neutral temperatured throughout. As long as the white is "pure" with a slight warmth to it, the dark woods and tanned skin look realistic, and the grayscale linear you should have a very pleasing and realistic image.

I should note that my white balance settings are taking into account the contrast ratio boosting "trick" by basically amping up the white balance Gain values. This basically brightens the white while keeping black level the same, hence the increase in contrast. The slight side effect of this trick is slightly "milky" white detail. This to me is fine as the extra punch in the bright end of the picture sort of emulates HDR and really makes the image pop off the black level even more. If you don't like this ever so slight "over exposed" effect then keep your brightest RGB Gains no higher than 30. For example, my contrast ratio boosting trick can be removed by taking away 4-5 points from each RGB Gain. I would recommend finding the right white hue centering around 25 first and then adding 5 points to each RGB value and seeing if you like the contrast boost. If not you can always dial things back down.


Hopefully this is enough to get you started. I would recommend having an hour to two available before you sit down and make White Balance adjustments. Goodness knows how many hours I spent. You can always invest in a relatively inexpensive colorimeter like SpectraCal C3. There is a free version of the software available for casual basic use. It's probably worth the investment and I'm considering getting one just to save time in the future and get a true reference performance. But for now I'm satisfied and I'm sure you will be taking a few hours and doing the adjustments yourself. But definitely something to keep in mind if you're not confident with the by-eye adjustments.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cavok84 View Post

When in native the gamut is greater than rec.709 correct? Would there be any advantage or issue in using 10 bit? Would using only 8 bit cause clipping? Even if the display only can show 8bit I've wondered about optimal input... You already answered this so feel free to ignore my persistence regarding bit depth!
I'll admit I output 12 bits to my F8000 from my PC's GTX 670. I switched back and forth from 12 to 8 last night and saw no difference whatsoever in banding. The extra 4 bits are added precision I believe and the F8000 simply truncates the least significant bits which basically means it just ignores the extra 4 bits of depth and only pays attention to the 8 bits. So as long as you're giving the F8000 at a minimum 8 bits you are fine. If you are like me and believe the F8000 works some sort of magic to incorporate the extra bits then feel free to send as many as you want! haha

Quote:
Originally Posted by cavok84 View Post

MCP-HC has some functionality to push your GPU to a certain refresh rate if you want to match the input with the source frame rate. This is advantageous while watching a movie due to typical HDMI being 60 hz, which will cause judder since the film is in 23.976.
I use MPC-HC too and did not know that, thanks for telling! I'll have to check that out. My eyes can notice judder/stutter from the Auto Motion Plus settings (except Clear and Off which look smooth) but I don't seem to be really sensitive to 24hz or 23hz movies being sent over 60hz. I've watched at least a hundred 24hz/23hz rips from my PC and didn't notice any judder so it must go right over my eyes and head But I will say that native 24 to 23hz definitely has a noticeable filmic movie theater effect to it. Definitely something I will want to start doing when watching movies off my PC!

Quote:
Originally Posted by cavok84 View Post

My understanding is that the f8000 panel is always refreshing at 240Hz, even though it can only accept up to 60Hz input, and that if viewing a 30fps video-- for example-- the panel will display each frame 8 times. This is done unless dejudder (interpolation) is activated, in which case the panel will create some artificial frames. I don't believe the panel has any syncing capability in its refresh rate. My question about 23.976 was assuming the panel would have a specific mode for this operation.

The only time I see 1080p24 or anything other than 60 is when I force my GPU to send that signal to the TV. I've done this is past to attempt to match the film frame rate with the HDMI 60hz to avoid the inherent pulldown that the TV receives.

I may be misunderstanding this stuff but I'm fairly sure the panel doesn't change from 240hz... this allows the tv to accept 24hz,30hz and 60hz input without judder.
I think you're very correct in your understanding of the panel. I don't have nearly enough technical understanding of backlight strobing/duty cycle of the panel's refresh rate to know exactly whether it is a static 240hz or is dynamic depending on the input. At 23.976hz that means it will have to skip or show an extra identical frame every 4 seconds or so to keep in sync with the 240hz. In the grand scheme, especially since the same frame will be displayed up to 10 times, having a frame displayed 11 times instead of 10 every 4 seconds should have a negligible effect on the overall judder/motion of the movie I'd imagine. So you should be fine driving the screen at 24hz on the GPU level and MPC-HC will do the minor frame rounding work that happens every 4 seconds. This is how I imagine it working.

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Originally Posted by cavok84 View Post

*** One thing I noticed a few weeks ago... I use to use automotion Blur red.: 10, De Judder: 0, LED: OFF
but only recently did I noticed this caused Judder!!! Or at least something resembling it!! Before this I never noticed any judder on the TV. So now I'm running 1 or 2 points of Dejudder. Perhaps I should turn down the deblur, but I'm confused why this would be happening.... The Clear setting does not use LED clear motion correct?
For the longest time I used Auto Motion Plus as Custom with de-blur: 10, de-judder: 0 and LED Clear Motion: On. I always sorta noticed there was stutter and judder randombly but felt the extra motion resolution was worth it. But having taken a closer look and switched to Clear clear is more than sufficient at offering noticeably better motion resolution without all of the judder/stutter Custom caused. I would recommend using Clear because Clear looks like de-blur: 5-7 or so, de-judder: 0, and LED Clear Motion: Off yet runs way better than if you try to replicate it in the Custom settings. In fact any Custom setting I found to have more stutter than Clear even with de-blur as low as 3-4. Me being someone that isn't super sensitive to judder still prefers the sacrifice of some motion resolution by choosing Clear so I'm sure Clear should work for you as well.


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Originally Posted by cavok84 View Post

** On game mode: I recently tried 'Last of Us: remastered' on game mode, Standard mode and movie mode to check for blur and input lag.

--What I noticed was that in Standard mode (motion off) I saw blooming and some flickering of colors in foliage and other complex background, as well as some blur.

-- Movie mode with blur reduction ON corrected the blur and I didn't notice the blooming or flickering! Since that game is not a FPS or fighting game I never noticed any excessive input lag.

--Game mode (default settings), didn't notice any significant blooming or flickering, but the picture quality was crappy and the blur was still there. No noticeable input lag.

I guess the Blur is just a function of pixel response time, which Game mode can't really address (although I would think a high refresh rate monitor of 240hz would have fairly good pixel response time)

Perhaps in the past, before I became obsessed with getting my settings right, I never noticed the background blur and was accustomed to it. But with a fast game like Doom on my PC at ultra settings I'm bummed that I can't really afford to turn on deblur without risking input lag.
Everything looks better in Movie Mode, even video games, but as you mention the input lag is what really kills it. So the compromise is that motion resolution will take a hit when switching to Game Mode. Computer monitors are much smaller and thus the voltages per pixel can be adjusted much faster than say on a giant 55" TV screen. This is just a limitation in the physics of the panel.

I notice dark edge smearing/ghosting which is normal for big screen VA panels. Other than that I like to think of the motion blur that the panel produces naturally as a better alternative to artificial motion blur added by the video game's graphics settings.

I used to notice motion blur and ghosting a LOT when I first got the F8000 because I had never really gamed 60hz 1080p on a large screen before and was not used to the blur/smearing/ghosting it produced. it's just something you'll get used to over time. I find max backlight and sitting at least 7 feet from the screen helps mitigate the motion blur a lot. Just appreciate that the F8000's motion is miles better than a vast majority of big screen LCDs.

Keep in mind that this is really just a physics limitation, even the latest 4K HDR TVs with the best processing still struggle with motion resolution, even OLEDs with near perfect motion resolution still suffer from ghosting/rainbow edging/smearing on certain tones. Coming from my F8500 plasma which plasma was constantly praised for having a better motion than LCD the plasma dithering on harsh moving edges is hard to look and I still prefer the motion that the F8000 has.

Check out my Standard/Game Mode settings and see how you like the look, it should make Game Mode look practically identical to Movie Mode so you get the realistic image and color temperature with the lower input lag of 40-45ms. This keeps the compromises to a minimum and when you just focus on the game your eyes will forget about the motion artifacts very quickly. I play lots of Rainbow Six Siege on PS4 and that is running at 60hz 1080p and since I'm so concentrated on the game more so than the visuals the motion blur goes totally unnoticed. When I play single player games and you're just absorbing the visuals more so than enemy players the motion is far more noticeable. You just sorta have to put it to the back of your mind and just enjoy the game and the F8000's amazing picture.

So even though the F8000 isn't perfect, it's still to this day one of the best performing TVs out there. It represents the pinnacle of 1080p TVs. It perfectly hits rec.709 color, has superb contrast and brightness, perfect image sharpness, darn good motion, and one of the slimmest and smexiest chassis designs Samsung has ever made even when compared to the newest 2016 KS 9K series. It's one hell of a TV that has aged remarkably well!

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Originally Posted by cavok84 View Post

Thanks again for the detailed response. I'm sure now my colors are still too saturated and my white balance was based off your old setting. I'll try the new stuff as well as your new game mode settings to see what I get.

Hunter
My pleasure! I could right a novel about the F8000 I'm in love with the darn thing so much. It's been over 3 years since I bought this puppy and it still blows my mind every time I turn it on. The picture is just that incredible and almost timeless. When friends and family are over their eyes are just locked on the F8000, they may not know much of anything about TVs but their eye balls sure tell a gorgeous and striking image when they see one! haha

Thanks for reading,
DRN94

Last edited by DRN94; 08-09-2016 at 01:57 PM.
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My pleasure! I could right a novel about the F8000 I'm in love with the darn thing so much. It's been over 3 years since I bought this puppy and it still blows my mind every time I turn it on. The picture is just that incredible and almost timeless. When friends and family are over their eyes are just locked on the F8000, they may not know much of anything about TVs but their eye balls sure tell a gorgeous and striking image when they see one! haha

Thanks for reading,
DRN94
Thanks again for all of the info, that's exactly what I needed! I'm just learning all of this stuff so a forum full of pros is the place to be! I'll have time this week to try out everything and I'll let you know how it goes.. You've already improved my picture so far, even without the white balance. I'm currently on Auto color to compensate for the slight red push I have, that lack of saturation is keeping me pretty neutral until I can spend an hour or two. But for now the contrast is great, checked banding and did a full online LCD test in which the panel passed with flying colors... unless it requires rgb

The 23.976 thing is not that big of a deal due to MPC Lav codecs clocking the framerate to output 24p... when you get a chance open a movie in MPC and use the hot key "control J" then enable statistics. I noticed significantly better frame rate control, less jitter and fr lag (if using software decoding) when I set windows to performance mode so the processor did not underclock. I much more accurately followed the reference frame on the jitter graph. This was on a 1080p source, 23.976 fps, 420... it just wasnt demaning enough for my processor to stay clocked at 4.4Ghz. While this isn't a big deal on a laptop or just casually viewing movies on my small panel, it was enough that on my F8000 I noticed a tiny difference. This is even more pronounced if you take a few seconds to set your GPU to 24p, unless you setup MPC to control refresh rate through the gpu. I don't have that setup yet, but from what I've read this is done with MadVR, which should come with your codec pack depending on which you got.

There are several guides to enabling this optimally online. And from what little I've read the chroma control and upscaling make this a very capable player (options>Output). This is also the reason why I would suggest keeping your GPU in a higher color depth, even though we have an 8 bit display and system, from what I understand the upscaling of 420 to rgb and loss of accuracy can be mitigated when using higher bit depths. Even though for us it eventually must return to 422.

-Regarding motion blur: It never used to bother while gaming or watching a movie until I became obsessed with perfect settings and setup. Having had the TV since '13 I've had bouts where I would spend a day or two involved with it and then forget it and just enjoy. Also the fact that all of my HD gaming and all of my 60 fps gaming has been done on LCDs leads me to believe I've been conditioned to this. I have a samsung monitor I use for most PC games (SA350) with great response time and no blur that I see, but the pic quality is pretty bad. Getting Doom (16) on my pc and playing it on the F8000 made me wonder why I ever purchased my playstation4 :/

My only complaints with the TV would be a strange set of issues (that I actually ran in to today several times) that occur randomly. It appears to be a processor or memory issue; as I am obsessing over a given setting and attempting to try many while a movie is playing (e.g., trying different automotion during a bluray) the menu will freeze, TV becomes unresponsive to controller input, and finally either requires me to power it down or it auto shuts down. It seems when I try to do too many things at once the TVs processor starts to lag as well, either that or my inputs are occupying the RAM and it just fills up. Other than that I couldn't be happier with my purchase. Heck, I still have my Samsung LN-T4665F in my room, which isn't even LED. And oddly enough it still has an amazing picture! Sure blacks are crappy, but the color is vibrant and great for off angle viewing for when you just can't get out of bed. Oh, lol, it also supports 10 bit color processing, xyyc, wide color gamut... just in case right?

Apologize for the spelling/grammar errors in advance, too many drinks

H
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For PC usage I have an S23A950D and S23A750D, both Samsung, both TN panels, both native 120hz, both glossy! Contrast on them is 1000:1 vs 3000:1 on the F8000. The PQ is definitely a step up to most budget and mid range monitors but no comparison to the F8000. For competitive shooters like CS and BF4 PC monitors will usually be best for gaming with faster response time and lower input lag. Single player PC games and console games that are less competitive and less "twitch" precise with aiming I think the F8000 offers the better experience.

I've had the F8000's picture settings menus lock up maybe 5 times the 3 years I've had it. Seems to occur when rapidly entering and exiting the picture setting menu repeatedly. My F8000 has my PC, U-Verse STB, and PS4 plugged into it. I'll even fire up the Netflix app on board. So the system resources on the F8000 like RAM and CPU seem more than sufficient. Probably an input interrupt queue leak or dead lock at the OS level or something causing the total lockup of the menu at random times. The developers probably thought a dead lock was statistically too improbable to think of a better more robust solution so they just left it assuming it would work 99.99999%+ of the time.

I briefly looked up reviews for your LN-T4665F and it's gotten rave reviews in the PQ department saying it even had deeper blacks than Panasonic's plasmas at the time but now you say the black level is crappy. Also some pretty impressive technical specs as you mention. Black levels must have improved a lot over the past decade. My friend has a 7 year old LN55A950D from 2009 which was one of Samsung's best FALD LED TVs ever made, it honestly matches or beats the F8000 ever so slightly in the contrast and black level department. But the F8000 easily wins in sharpness, motion resolution/response, color accuracy/saturation, picture processing, external design, etc. If I could find an LN55A950D for $500 bucks I'd grab it in a heartbeat. It truly is a relic of the past and I'm sure your LN-T4665F is too!
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post #8504 of 8510 Old 08-12-2016, 03:45 AM
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Sek-3000

In case there's any interest, the SEK-3000 is showing in stock at Sparco.

http://www.sparco.com/cgi-bin/wfind2?spn=A2UY018

I have no idea what wonders this will introduce.

UN55HU6950 w/SEK-3500U UN40HU6950 w/SEK-3500U UN40ES7500 UN37C5000
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I briefly looked up reviews for your LN-T4665F and it's gotten rave reviews in the PQ department saying it even had deeper blacks than Panasonic's plasmas at the time but now you say the black level is crappy. Also some pretty impressive technical specs as you mention. Black levels must have improved a lot over the past decade. My friend has a 7 year old LN55A950D from 2009 which was one of Samsung's best FALD LED TVs ever made, it honestly matches or beats the F8000 ever so slightly in the contrast and black level department. But the F8000 easily wins in sharpness, motion resolution/response, color accuracy/saturation, picture processing, external design, etc. If I could find an LN55A950D for $500 bucks I'd grab it in a heartbeat. It truly is a relic of the past and I'm sure your LN-T4665F is too!
I did some comparisons without alcohol, and I think I was overstating the poor quality of black levels. They are actually very good, at the time of writing my last post I was viewing off angle and watching old ps3 content.

The color quality and black levels are very competitive with my f8000, with the 8000 looking sharper. Like I said the biggest issue with my LN is that I've never been able to get the HDMI to work so I've always had to use component input.


edit:

For custom color range, did you mean for blue to be 0 50 0? that really changes the look of the deep blue to a very light teal

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edit:

For custom color range, did you mean for blue to be 0 50 0? that really changes the look of the deep blue to a very light teal
For me Blue at 0 50 0 looks like Native's blue which is noticeably deeper and more saturated than Auto's blue. Seems like the color behaves different on yours, interesting. What panel version do you have? I have TS01.
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For me Blue at 0 50 0 looks like Native's blue which is noticeably deeper and more saturated than Auto's blue. Seems like the color behaves different on yours, interesting. What panel version do you have? I have TS01.
How can I find out?
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How can I find out?
On the silver sticker on the back there should be a "Version No:"
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FYI :

No two F8K are going to register the same white balance , never , ever , not happening !

There are way too many variables involved for all tv to be the same.

You have component variants ( even a + or - , <1% can affect the color ).
Solder joints , most components on the PCB`s are "wave soldered" ( done by machine ) and the ones that humans due , are dependent on the skills of the person doing the soldering.

Should all tv`s be perfect ? YOU BET

I have argued this point with so many people over the years , I should write a book on the science of display construction !!

Is it possible for all tv`s to be the same ? YES , within the boundaries of the human eye.

Technology and physiology play a huge part in what we perceive and what is scientifically correct.

In plan english , for example , it would be possible for say Sony to make all tv`s look the same to the human eye. Just don`t call an ISF calibrator , you might be disappointed.

Bottom line if the tv looks go within the normal parameters of operation , IE: Tint at 50 , is the most important , and other settings to taste. and if they look the same across the entire band of channels and content you receive.

If your tv can do that , then you have a good tv !

Sorry , but needed to be said !

Later .

Gary 
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Unfortunately each F8000 is very different. I am just surprised his color space behaves much different from mine. I would say crank the Blue until it appears like Native or Auto, which ever saturation you like best.
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