*Official* Samsung UNxxF5000 and UNxxF5500 Owners Thread - Page 7 - AVS Forum
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post #181 of 838 Old 10-08-2013, 05:44 AM
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Originally Posted by jprc View Post

See if renaming the input to PC helps. You press SOURCE, then highlight the input, then press Tools. Choose Edit Name and choose PC (or try DVI PC if you connect by DVI).

Problem is still there with renaming the inputs. That all said, I noticed there was a newer version of firmware (v1113) and I applied that to see if it may have an effect. Nada.

I also tried to see if perhaps I'm observing some weird persistence of vision so I look away from the text, scroll, and look where it used to be.... I definitely see ghost images. Even at lower brightnesses or different color temps.

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post #182 of 838 Old 10-08-2013, 07:04 AM
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For comparison's sake, I noticed that the title of this thread "Replying to "*Official* Samsung UNxxF5000 and UNxxF5500 Owners Thread"" ghosts / blurs terribly on the 40" 5500.

  • On the 40" 5500 LED, the ghosting is essentially the entire letter trailing behind the actual letters when scrolling.
  • My office has two Dell LCD monitors and it ghosts slightly.... less than 1/5th to 1/8th starts ghosting on the LCD but "catches up".

I was hoping my problem would be resolved with a firmware update... it seems the rise / fall times of the pixels are terrible for my HDTV, which I find odd since others are not griping about the same problem as myself. I think I noticed somewhere in this thread that some people are stating some panels are made by different manufacturers... is this the case for the 40" 5500?

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post #183 of 838 Old 10-08-2013, 07:27 AM
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Most probably your panel is not made by Samsung but by a different manufacturer which are generally considered worse than Samsung own S-PVA panels.
To be sure about what panel you have look at the sticker in your box and note the code it says in the "version" field in the same place where you find the serial number, it should be a two letter and two number code, then compare to the following reference thread to see which panel you have.

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1294904/samsung-panel-version-thread

Another way of checking what panel you have is entering the service menu and noting the code.
Read the above link to see what code you should look after.

But the best way to be absolutelly sure about your panel is to get a loupe or microscope and look directly at the pixels on your screen, then compare and identify in this databases:

http://www.digitalversus.com/tv-television/screen-technology-sub-pixels-up-close-a1547.html
http://www.avforums.com/forums/lcd-led-lcd-tvs/1113353-lcd-matrices-differences-what-models-placed.html

I recommend you read this thread to see if your panel correlates to the other ghosting issues reported.
Aparently there's one particular panel from a particular manufacturer that has notable ghosting issues.
You seem to have such panel unfortunatelly.

I have a UE32F5000 with Samsung S-PVA PSA panel and have absolutelly no ghosting issues and motion blur is also minimal.
Very happy with my TV.

I've connected the TV to a laptop through HDMI and had none of your issues not even when gaming even without relabelling the HDMI2 input to "PC".
Watching HD movies from the laptop was pretty nice.
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post #184 of 838 Old 10-08-2013, 07:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kkl10 View Post

Most probably your panel is not made by Samsung but by a different manufacturer which are generally considered worse than Samsung own S-PVA panels.
To be sure about what panel you have look at the sticker in your box and note the code it says in the "version" field in the same place where you find the serial number, it should be a two letter and two number code, then compare to the following reference thread to see which panel you have.

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1294904/samsung-panel-version-thread

Another way of checking what panel you have is entering the service menu and noting the code.
Read the above link to see what code you should look after.

But the best way to be absolutelly sure about your panel is to get a loupe or microscope and look directly at the pixels on your screen, then compare and identify in this databases:

http://www.digitalversus.com/tv-television/screen-technology-sub-pixels-up-close-a1547.html
http://www.avforums.com/forums/lcd-led-lcd-tvs/1113353-lcd-matrices-differences-what-models-placed.html

I recommend you read this thread to see if your panel correlates to the other ghosting issues reported.
Aparently there's one particular panel from a particular manufacturer that has notable ghosting issues.
You seem to have such panel unfortunatelly.

I have a UE32F5000 with Samsung S-PVA PSA panel and have absolutelly no ghosting issues and motion blur is also minimal.
Very happy with my TV.

I've connected the TV to a laptop through HDMI and had none of your issues not even when gaming even without relabelling the HDMI2 input to "PC".
Watching HD movies from the laptop was pretty nice.

Many thanks... I will look into this first thing when I get home tonight.

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post #185 of 838 Old 10-08-2013, 07:40 AM
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Oh, by the way, the "Samsung Panel Version Thread" initial post is a bit outdated as it doesn't mention the Sharp panels that are reported in this thread.
Sharp panels are the ones that seem to be affected by the dark or purple ghosting issue and their code usually goes by HSxx, xx - numbers, in the sticker on the box.
So I highly recommend you read this thread in it's entirety.
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post #186 of 838 Old 10-08-2013, 11:13 AM
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Originally Posted by StuckAtZero View Post

Many thanks... I will look into this first thing when I get home tonight.

FYI - the version is also listed on the back of the TV, next to the Serial Number, so someone doesn't need to still have the box or go into the service menu. The sticker on the box is helpful for people buying a new one so that they can check before purchase without opening the box.

For your reference, my panel, which does not have this problem at all, is TS01.
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post #187 of 838 Old 10-08-2013, 11:32 AM
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Originally Posted by jprc View Post

FYI - the version is also listed on the back of the TV, next to the Serial Number, so someone doesn't need to still have the box or go into the service menu. The sticker on the box is helpful for people buying a new one so that they can check before purchase without opening the box.

For your reference, my panel, which does not have this problem at all, is TS01.

Oh! You're right!
Somehow I managed to forget that additional information.
It's visible on the back of the TV indeed.

Yep, TS01 is a Samsung panel and there are no ghosting reports for this panel.
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post #188 of 838 Old 10-08-2013, 02:45 PM
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Originally Posted by kkl10 View Post

Oh! You're right!
Somehow I managed to forget that additional information.
It's visible on the back of the TV indeed.

Yep, TS01 is a Samsung panel and there are no ghosting reports for this panel.

Let me be the first to make such a report. That said, the outside of the box states the version is TS01... I will try to get into the service menu to verify this if possible. It's starting to sound like I got a lemon.... or there's something quirky with how the HDTV is talking with the PC... but I don't know how.

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post #189 of 838 Old 10-08-2013, 02:50 PM
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The integrated e-manual with the HDTV states if I have blurring to mess with the feature called "Auto Motion Plus". When I go where I am directed, there is no such feature. Sounds like I've got troubleshooting info for a completely different model of HDTV.

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post #190 of 838 Old 10-08-2013, 03:22 PM
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Below are the pics I took of what I have. Should I throw in the towel at this point and just send it back for either a refund or exchange? I want to state though that the motion blurring I'm noticing it most is black or dark colors on a white background.

Box Sticker.jpg 776k .jpg file

Service Menu Screen resized.jpg 729k .jpg file
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File Type: jpg Service Menu Screen resized.jpg (728.7 KB, 65 views)

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post #191 of 838 Old 10-08-2013, 03:36 PM
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Nevermind the E-Manual, it's probably just copy paste between different models.
Auto Motion Plus is also mentioned on my TV but it's a feature only available on the higher range models.

There is a setting called "LED Motion Rate" or clear motion rate or something like that under Picture options.
You could try enabling that and see if you get an improvement but beware that it causes the brightness of the screen to decrease quite a bit so you'll have to compensate with the Backlight and/or Contrast controls.
I don't think it will cure your problem, if help at all, but just to make sure.
On my TV it gives a very slight improvement to motion clarity but it's mostly unnoticeable.

If you really have a TS01 then the problem you have might not be exactly what I thought.

To help further assess the cause of the problem I suggest you try using your TV with a another source instead of your PC. (another PC, or a bluray/DVD player, setbox, etc,,,)
Try also using the TV's inbuilt channel tunner and try maybe also connecting your PC through DVI or VGA connections (if it has any of those, notice that in this way you won't get sound) instead of HDMI.
If things improve then the issue is in your computer, or in the way how your PC and TV communicate.

Have you actually tried to tweak the settings on the computer side?
There should be some sort of video card control panel on your PC to configure.

If things don't improve then you are out of luck...

Another thing, make sure you have Digital/Mpeg Noise reduction settings disabled on your TV.

Good luck.
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post #192 of 838 Old 10-08-2013, 03:43 PM
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Would it be possible for you to take a picture of the motion blur by the way?
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post #193 of 838 Old 10-08-2013, 04:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kkl10 View Post

Nevermind the E-Manual, it's probably just copy paste between different models.
Auto Motion Plus is also mentioned on my TV but it's a feature only available on the higher range models.

There is a setting called "LED Motion Rate" or clear motion rate or something like that under Picture options.
You could try enabling that and see if you get an improvement but beware that it causes the brightness of the screen to decrease quite a bit so you'll have to compensate with the Backlight and/or Contrast controls.
I don't think it will cure your problem, if help at all, but just to make sure.
On my TV it gives a very slight improvement to motion clarity but it's mostly unnoticeable.

If you really have a TS01 then the problem you have might not be exactly what I thought.

To help further assess the cause of the problem I suggest you try using your TV with a another source instead of your PC. (another PC, or a bluray/DVD player, setbox, etc,,,)
Try also using the TV's inbuilt channel tunner and try maybe also connecting your PC through DVI or VGA connections (if it has any of those, notice that in this way you won't get sound) instead of HDMI.
If things improve then the issue is in your computer, or in the way how your PC and TV communicate.

Have you actually tried to tweak the settings on the computer side?
There should be some sort of video card control panel on your PC to configure.

If things don't improve then you are out of luck...

Another thing, make sure you have Digital/Mpeg Noise reduction settings disabled on your TV.

Good luck.

Yeah, I figured as much on the e-manual. I have tinkered with the LED Motion Rate and I want to say it SEEMS like it helps a little bit with the regular-sized font by reducing the length of the ghosting, but I still have it.

For the tuner, I have OTA and I want to say it's OK.... although I believe motion is something slightly less than fluid... but that may be because I prefer Plasma's fluidity when it comes to motion on screen. I hadn't thought about using a different PC... I do have two notebooks that may help, but they're all using ATI graphics (in case the problem is with ATI)... I read today that AMD has somehow rigged their GPUs to not fully support 3rd Party HDMI adapters by blocking audio streams if not using an AMD adapter... or some such thing. I'll use one of my notebooks shortly.

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post #194 of 838 Old 10-08-2013, 04:04 PM
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Would it be possible for you to take a picture of the motion blur by the way?

Does this qualify? smile.gif Motion Blur resized.jpg 545k .jpg file
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post #195 of 838 Old 10-08-2013, 04:05 PM
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I want to state though that the motion blurring I'm noticing it most is black or dark colors on a white background.

If you only notice such blur in specific ocasions it indicates that the problem might be in software and not in hardware...
If you haven't done this yet, run a movie or play a game on your PC and see how it looks on your TV...
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post #196 of 838 Old 10-08-2013, 04:14 PM
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Does this qualify? smile.gif Motion Blur resized.jpg 545k .jpg file

There's blur... but it's difficult to assess it's severity with this picture size without knowing the font size and the speed you were scrolling the text...
Which one of those is the actual line? biggrin.gif

If OTA seems alright then your TV is not the problem at least hardware wise... and you can't expect LCDs to have perfect motion clarity as Plasma or CRT.
Motion blur is LCD own limitation, you will always have some degree of motion blur in an LCD which lacks motion-compensated frame interpolation...
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post #197 of 838 Old 10-08-2013, 04:28 PM
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Originally Posted by kkl10 View Post

Nevermind the E-Manual, it's probably just copy paste between different models.
Have you actually tried to tweak the settings on the computer side?
There should be some sort of video card control panel on your PC to configure.

If things don't improve then you are out of luck...

Another thing, make sure you have Digital/Mpeg Noise reduction settings disabled on your TV.

Good luck.

Problem solved!!! Out of desperation, I started looking around within the Catalyst Control Center as you suggested. I went to the section called "My Digital Flat-Panels". From there, I found something called "Pixel Format". By default my pixel format was set to "YCbCr 4:4:4 Pixel Format".

After some experimenting around I found that:

  • "RGB 4:4:4 Pixel Format PC Standard (Full RGB)" mostly fixes the ghosting problem... I seem to get it every 3rd or 4th scroll when rapidly scrolling up and down.
  • "RGB 4:4:4 Pixel Format Studio (Limited RGB)" seems to fix the problem entirely (but at the expense of what appears to be a little less vibrant desktop).

Thanks for giving me the idea... I was really liking this HDTV and was conflicted because of the ghosting which was driving me nuts.

Motion Blur Fixed.jpg 116k .jpg file
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post #198 of 838 Old 10-08-2013, 04:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kkl10 View Post

There's blur... but it's difficult to assess it's severity with this picture size without knowing the font size and the speed you were scrolling the text...
Which one of those is the actual line? biggrin.gif

If OTA seems alright then your TV is not the problem at least hardware wise... and you can't expect LCDs to have perfect motion clarity as Plasma or CRT.
Motion blur is LCD own limitation, you will always have some degree of motion blur in an LCD which lacks motion-compensated frame interpolation...

Calibri size 72 font while scrolling up and down reasonably fast.

As for expectations on LCDs... I only got this as a monitor because LCDs are less susceptible to burn-in than a plasma. wink.gif I really like my plasma's fluidity of motion and viewing angles. I'm holding out for THE plasma killer.... just waiting for OLED to get reasonably cheap... that all said, I haven't heard anything on how well they perform with respect to things like motion or rated lifespan... I heard one of the 3 colors a couple of years ago would only last about 20,000 hours while the other two had ridiculously high lifespans.

I was thinking the same thing with respect to OTA... but my subjectivity (and my being frustrated) kicked in and I thought I may have been seeing something that may have not actually been there. I'm just glad I can live with my HDTV computer monitor. biggrin.gif

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post #199 of 838 Old 10-08-2013, 04:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kkl10 View Post

If you only notice such blur in specific ocasions it indicates that the problem might be in software and not in hardware...
If you haven't done this yet, run a movie or play a game on your PC and see how it looks on your TV...

True... or it's just difficult to spot in other circumstances due to poor picture quality and/or colors that don't contrast well. I couldn't say for sure and was thinking the possibility of motion blur existed on the OTA or DVD could be present... but I just didn't have the time or patience looking for the one perfect scene to characterize things.

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post #200 of 838 Old 10-09-2013, 05:19 AM
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Originally Posted by StuckAtZero View Post

Problem solved!!! Out of desperation, I started looking around within the Catalyst Control Center as you suggested. I went to the section called "My Digital Flat-Panels". From there, I found something called "Pixel Format". By default my pixel format was set to "YCbCr 4:4:4 Pixel Format".

After some experimenting around I found that:

  • "RGB 4:4:4 Pixel Format PC Standard (Full RGB)" mostly fixes the ghosting problem... I seem to get it every 3rd or 4th scroll when rapidly scrolling up and down.
  • "RGB 4:4:4 Pixel Format Studio (Limited RGB)" seems to fix the problem entirely (but at the expense of what appears to be a little less vibrant desktop).

Thanks for giving me the idea... I was really liking this HDTV and was conflicted because of the ghosting which was driving me nuts.


Well... that's the first thing you should have looked into after connecting both devices the first time...
HDTVs are not exactly plug and play devices as proper PC Monitors, you know. rolleyes.gif

FYI there's a setting in your TV called "HDMI Black Level" with two options, "Normal" and "Low". (It's under Picture settings menu)
It should be set to "Low" when receiving a Limited RGB (16-235) signal and should be set to "Normal" when receiving a Full RGB (0-255) signal.
That's the correct way to configure your TV to the color depth sent by the HDMI source and it should not be neglected any time you connect a new device.

If you set your TV HDMI black level to "Low" when it is receiving Full RGB signal you will get black crush and colors will look unnaturally saturated and inaccurate, in some ocasions it might look (subjectivelly) better but it's not the way it should be configured, you will loose a lot of detail in your image specially in the black areas.
If you set to "Normal" when it's receiving a Limited RGB signal the TV full color range will not be used, blacks will look gray and colors will look washed out and with poor constrast, also inaccurate.

Another TV setting named "Color Space" should be set to "Auto".
This is to match the color gamut of the source so that you get as accurate colors as possible.
In some rare ocasions I notice a difference between "Auto" and "Native".

Another important thing, if Catalyst Control Center has an option to select Refresh Rate you should set it to 60Hz to match your TV native value.

Glad I could help. smile.gif
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post #201 of 838 Old 10-09-2013, 05:47 AM
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Another thing:

If you select "RGB 4:4:4 Pixel Format PC Standard (Full RGB)" in Catalyst Control Center again, you might want to also label the HDMI input of your TV as "PC".

EDIT: You should read this: http://www.avsforum.com/t/1381724/official-4-4-4-chroma-subsampling-thread

EDIT: On second thought, I think you might actualy want to label the HDMI input as "PC" with either "RGB 4:4:4 Pixel Format PC Standard (Full RGB)" or "RGB 4:4:4 Pixel Format Studio (Limited RGB)" as both options are 4:4:4... I'm still learning about this subject but I know it's relevant to anyone using their TV as a PC Monitor.
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post #202 of 838 Old 10-09-2013, 08:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kkl10 View Post

Well... that's the first thing you should have looked into after connecting both devices the first time...
HDTVs are not exactly plug and play devices as proper PC Monitors, you know. rolleyes.gif

FYI there's a setting in your TV called "HDMI Black Level" with two options, "Normal" and "Low". (It's under Picture settings menu)
It should be set to "Low" when receiving a Limited RGB (16-235) signal and should be set to "Normal" when receiving a Full RGB (0-255) signal.
That's the correct way to configure your TV to the color depth sent by the HDMI source and it should not be neglected any time you connect a new device.

If you set your TV HDMI black level to "Low" when it is receiving Full RGB signal you will get black crush and colors will look unnaturally saturated and inaccurate, in some ocasions it might look (subjectivelly) better but it's not the way it should be configured, you will loose a lot of detail in your image specially in the black areas.
If you set to "Normal" when it's receiving a Limited RGB signal the TV full color range will not be used, blacks will look gray and colors will look washed out and with poor constrast, also inaccurate.

Another TV setting named "Color Space" should be set to "Auto".
This is to match the color gamut of the source so that you get as accurate colors as possible.
In some rare ocasions I notice a difference between "Auto" and "Native".

Another important thing, if Catalyst Control Center has an option to select Refresh Rate you should set it to 60Hz to match your TV native value.

Glad I could help. smile.gif

It just so happens that I may have undone some of the progress I've made because I selected the wrong values for some of the settings you've mentioned. I'll have to go and double check when I get home. Catalyst Control Center does offer differing refresh rates if you so desire, but it does correctly do 60Hz without any tinkering on my part.

That all said, it's good you pointed out that HDTVs are not quite plug and play as PC monitors. I've been considering an HDTV as nothing more than a computer monitor panel with differing AV Inputs, Video Processor, Remote, and Digital TV Tuner. I've been shown otherwise.

Something else for others to consider if they notice that their GPU is not fully utilizing the entire screen of their HDTV is that there is a feature called "overscan" which allows you to fix that problem should you notice a ~1" unused border around your entire Windows desktop.

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post #203 of 838 Old 10-09-2013, 08:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kkl10 View Post

Another thing:

If you select "RGB 4:4:4 Pixel Format PC Standard (Full RGB)" in Catalyst Control Center again, you might want to also label the HDMI input of your TV as "PC".

EDIT: You should read this: http://www.avsforum.com/t/1381724/official-4-4-4-chroma-subsampling-thread

EDIT: On second thought, I think you might actualy want to label the HDMI input as "PC" with either "RGB 4:4:4 Pixel Format PC Standard (Full RGB)" or "RGB 4:4:4 Pixel Format Studio (Limited RGB)" as both options are 4:4:4... I'm still learning about this subject but I know it's relevant to anyone using their TV as a PC Monitor.

Does labeling a HDMI input as "PC" actually do anything? Sounded fishy to me when I read it earlier in the thread, but I humored it with no perceivable differences in performance... but that was before I discovered the "Pixel Format" feature of the Catalyst Control Center. I'll try again later tonight.

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post #204 of 838 Old 10-09-2013, 08:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kkl10 View Post

Another thing:

If you select "RGB 4:4:4 Pixel Format PC Standard (Full RGB)" in Catalyst Control Center again, you might want to also label the HDMI input of your TV as "PC".

EDIT: You should read this: http://www.avsforum.com/t/1381724/official-4-4-4-chroma-subsampling-thread

EDIT: On second thought, I think you might actualy want to label the HDMI input as "PC" with either "RGB 4:4:4 Pixel Format PC Standard (Full RGB)" or "RGB 4:4:4 Pixel Format Studio (Limited RGB)" as both options are 4:4:4... I'm still learning about this subject but I know it's relevant to anyone using their TV as a PC Monitor.

So I see from the link why I should label my HDMI input. Do you happen to know if the 5500-series should be 4-4-4-chroma compliant before I check?
Quote:
"T2) My TV is said to be 4:4:4 capable, but its failing the 4:4:4 tests, what’s going on?

The easiest fix is to use a DVI->HDMI cable to connect your PC to your TV. In some rare cases though, a DVI->HDMI connection will still cause 4:4:4 to fail. Additional details on this will be discussed in question T3.

For some TVs, you have to set specific TV settings to enable 4:4:4 capability. These include things like switching to special picture modes (i.e., “Game” or “PC” mode) or relabeling your input ports. If your TV has these types of settings, give it a try and see if it passes the 4:4:4 tests.

For the TVs that have already been tested and require these special tweaks, I’ll be sure to note them in the 4:4:4 TV list."
...

T6) I want to use a HDMI->HDMI cable (because I want HDMI audio), can I still get 4:4:4?

From my experience and observations, the answer is no. As mentioned previously, *something* relating to HDMI audio extensions causes 4:4:4 to fail. Only by disabling the HDMI audio extensions (via a DVI->HDMI cable and/or EDID Override) will 4:4:4 become enabled.

One thing I've noticed is the only thing I have access to while using an HDMI input is either "Entertainment" or "Standard" modes... unless switching the label to "PC" happens to unlock more picture modes.

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post #205 of 838 Old 10-09-2013, 10:42 AM
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The 5500 series should be compliant without problem.
There's no risk of damaging your TV by doing this so don't worry.
Most 2013 Samsung HDTVs seem to support 4:4:4 chroma.

But... if the only Picture presets you have available on your HDMI input (which one of them?) is Entertainment and Standard... it means it's already labelled as "PC"...
Only in "PC" mode the Entertainment preset is enabled and most other presets are disabled, at least that's how it is in my UE32F5000... I think this should apply to all F5X00 series though.
Maybe other labels on the HDMI input enable Entertainment preset but I've only used "PC" yet.

I guess that after you labelled the input to "PC" or "DVI PC" you forgot to undo it or you didn't do it correctly...
To see if your input is labelled press the "SOURCE" button in your TV remote control and see if there is "PC" or anything else highlighted under one of the HDMI inputs.
To undo a labelling I just select the field that doesn't mention anything in the labels list menu as you go through the usual proccess of labelling an input.

In non PC mode you should have 4 picture presets: Dynamic, Standard, Natural and Movie.

When using a PC I usually use the "HDMI 2" input of my TV simply because that's where the "DVI" or "PC" marking is and because I connect my Setbox to the "HDMI 1" input... dunno if there's a different between both inputs for PC source...

To actually know if your TV is accepting 4:4:4 chroma subsampling successfully just do the tests at the link I gave you and compare the results between "PC" and non PC mode.
If things look better in "PC" mode then your TV is working just fine with 4:4:4.

Notice that when in "PC" mode the "Sharpness" setting of your TV will default at "50", I've read that this is the correct value in this mode and shouldn't be modified.

Before comparing "PC" and non PC modes, I suggest that in non PC mode you select either Standard or Movie picture presets only.
And in either mode, make sure to disable "Digital/MPEG Noise Reduction", "Dynamic Contrast", "Motion Lightning" and set "Sharpness" to no higher than 10.
Even before that you might want to restore all picture settings of your TV to default and then apply the settings I suggest here and in my previous post.
Also make sure that "Game" mode is disabled, just in case you enabled at any time and forgot to disable it again... in "Game" mode only the Standard picture preset is enabled.

Sorry if I'm making this look more complicated than it should be...
There are numerous variables here so one has to make sure they're all covered to see what actually works and what doesn't.

Personally I haven't actually tested my TVs 4:4:4 compliancy but since it's rarelly connected to a PC and it looks generally good anyway, it's not an issue for me.
I know my TV is compliant though... because of one particular professional review of my model where it is mentioned.
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post #206 of 838 Old 10-10-2013, 06:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kkl10 View Post

Well... that's the first thing you should have looked into after connecting both devices the first time...
HDTVs are not exactly plug and play devices as proper PC Monitors, you know. rolleyes.gif

FYI there's a setting in your TV called "HDMI Black Level" with two options, "Normal" and "Low". (It's under Picture settings menu)
It should be set to "Low" when receiving a Limited RGB (16-235) signal and should be set to "Normal" when receiving a Full RGB (0-255) signal.
That's the correct way to configure your TV to the color depth sent by the HDMI source and it should not be neglected any time you connect a new device.

If you set your TV HDMI black level to "Low" when it is receiving Full RGB signal you will get black crush and colors will look unnaturally saturated and inaccurate, in some ocasions it might look (subjectivelly) better but it's not the way it should be configured, you will loose a lot of detail in your image specially in the black areas.
If you set to "Normal" when it's receiving a Limited RGB signal the TV full color range will not be used, blacks will look gray and colors will look washed out and with poor constrast, also inaccurate.

Another TV setting named "Color Space" should be set to "Auto".
This is to match the color gamut of the source so that you get as accurate colors as possible.
In some rare ocasions I notice a difference between "Auto" and "Native".

Another important thing, if Catalyst Control Center has an option to select Refresh Rate you should set it to 60Hz to match your TV native value.

Glad I could help. smile.gif

Did a quick check this morning... I get the least amount of ghosting using :

  • "RGB 4:4:4 Pixel Format Studio (Limited RGB)"
  • HDMI Black Level: Normal
  • Color Space: N/A (It's subdued)

I plan to do the Chroma check when I have more time.

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post #207 of 838 Old 10-10-2013, 06:08 AM
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Originally Posted by kkl10 View Post

Another thing:

If you select "RGB 4:4:4 Pixel Format PC Standard (Full RGB)" in Catalyst Control Center again, you might want to also label the HDMI input of your TV as "PC".

EDIT: You should read this: http://www.avsforum.com/t/1381724/official-4-4-4-chroma-subsampling-thread

EDIT: On second thought, I think you might actualy want to label the HDMI input as "PC" with either "RGB 4:4:4 Pixel Format PC Standard (Full RGB)" or "RGB 4:4:4 Pixel Format Studio (Limited RGB)" as both options are 4:4:4... I'm still learning about this subject but I know it's relevant to anyone using their TV as a PC Monitor.

I'm using a HDMI-to-HDMI cable right now... I plan to switch to a DVI-to-HDMI cable based on the thread you provided. I hope there's an improvement now that I see what variables to tinker with.

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post #208 of 838 Old 10-14-2013, 07:46 AM
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Hi, Ive been trawling through this thread and want to thank the guys who were posting info on Xbox settings on this TV, I will give it a go when I get home.

Im hoping someone could be kind enough to answer some questions I have, as I think they are so dumb nobody has asked them already and probably never will lol!

 

I just went from an old CRT to my first flat screen. I got the Samsung f5000 32 FullHD 1080. :)

Im using a gold HDMI cable to connect to my Xbox and at the moment have no TV aerial to get TV, but one is on the way :)

 

What I have discovered is that Im blown away by the screen and having ruled out both 3D and Smart as things I didnt need, Im already regretting not just getting a 3D Samsung at least.

I have tried going online through the Xbox Explorer (something I never even thought about on the old CRT?!? ) and found quite a few sites dont work, Ive read this is because Microsoft dont support flash and have now read that a Samsung Smart TV wouldnt solve the problem either as they are not supporting Flash too.

As Im thinking it would be quite good to link up to the internet through the TV Im was wondering if I will always find the flash thing a problem, or could buying something like the Roku 3 to solve this? Ive only just discovered these Roku/android tv thingys this morning, but Ive already read 2 reviews of the Roku saying they do not have a search engine built in for the UK so it seems I cant surf anyway, but maybe there is something else someone could suggest or is the use of Flash just a simple no no on the Samsung TVs?

 

I have also been confused as to why there are 2 HDMIs sockets one STB and one DVI. I read that STB is Set Top Box but Im not sure if this is the right one to put my Xbox into, or if it even matters, are they just the same and labelled different by Samsung for customers convience?

 

When I put on the Xbox the game is centred and playable but on the Home menu on the right hand side I can see the next column of green boxes, normally on CRT I wouldnt see them until I had scrolled along the top heading, like Bing, settings, music, video etc. At the moment the first screen on the Dashboard shows Play game on the left and creeping onto the right hand side is "Friends", Avitar etc, does this mean its not set up properly? As I say the game is centred and I thought with HDMI it would set it up correctly automatically?

 

The only other thing Im not sure about, is this ghosting thing that people often sight as a disappointment for people used to CRT. Im playing PES2014 and when I speed up players on the pitch there is a slight tug on my eyes sometimes, its more something I feel than could point to on the screen, Im wondering if this is ghosting and if its to do with my settings not being right, it happens on Game Mode and Dynamic but not frequently, Ive also noticed there is 1080i and 1080p, again Im assuming HDMi connection works out whats best so I havent tinkered with anything and found this site by googling for "best xbox settings" so would like to thank again the two posters whom Ive read their recommendations from, when I get home Im going to follow their settings and see if I can get enough time on the Xbox to know if this "ghosting" thing, if thats what it is, stops.

 

Sorry for the essay lol, Ive got a 7 day return and Im thinking if this problem when playing is more to do with it being 100hz and not 200hz like the 3d version, I might upgrade and stick the extra £100 on my visa lol :)

Sorry Im going on again!

thanks for any help or advice forthcoming :)

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post #209 of 838 Old 10-14-2013, 02:00 PM
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@Rod Creand

I don't have an Xbox so will not answer those questions but did want to clarify the flash player part. My Samsung F5500 Smart TV does play flash videos. The web browser has Flash version 11.1.102.59 installed. You cannot update the Flash version yourself so if a site requires a newer version you will not be able to play on that site. Adobe decided awhile ago to no longer support Flash on Smart TVs so they are not providing new versions for Smart devices. Adobe stopped Linux support as well, which the Smart TV uses, at version 11.2 except for security patches. I have not had a problem so far with viewing flash on my TV's web browser but don't expect it to stay that way forever. However, Flash is pretty much being replaced by other technologies, albeit not fast enough, but I'm hoping it will not matter much in the future.

If you have a computer with an HDMI or DVI, you can always attach your computer directly to your TV and watch everything you can watch on your computer and not have to worry about Smart device browser restrictions. Also, your questions about which port to use. The ports are optimized for what they are labeled for, but you can plug other things into them. If the 5000 works the same as the 5500, you can edit the input name and it will optimize it for what you choose. On the 5500, you press the Source button on the remote, highlight the correct input, and press the Tools button on the remote. Then choose Edit Name. One of the options is Game.
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post #210 of 838 Old 10-14-2013, 03:53 PM
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Rod Creand.

I have the same TV model.
There are specific settings that you have to tweak to achieve the lowest motion blur and lag on your TV with the Xbox 360:
Just as connecting the TV to a PC it requires some essential configuration steps to ensure all is working correctly and at it's best. It's not a plug and play device.
I have the Xbox 360 connected to HDMI2 because there's where you should connect any PC and the xbox is basically a PC.
HDMI1 (STB), is recommended for setboxes and in the user manual an explicit warning states that set boxes should not be connected on HDMI2 (DVI) but only on HDMI1 for best performance.
I don't know if it's so strict with PCs, but I would just use HDMI2 (DVI) with your Xbox unless you have another PC to connect to.

Picture settings on TV:
Picture preset - Movie (or "Standard" in Game mode, but I notice no improvement with Game mode enabled to be honest)
Screen size - Screen Fit (to correctly adjust the screen on your TV, it's normal to see the boxes cripping at the sides of the screen)
Digital/Mpeg Noise Reduction - Disabled
Color Space: Auto
Dynamic Contrast - Disabled
HDMI Black Level - Normal

Picture settings on Xbox:
Resolution - 1080p
Color Space - RGB (this gives less motion blur and lag than YCbCr)
Reference Levels - Expanded

I think I forgot something... hope this helps.

Regarding Flash based content on internet, the issue is on the xbox as this is the device that is actually accessing the internet, try to see if there's an update for your xbox or something.
I haven't tried to surf flash based websites yet, might give it a try...
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