Official Samsung UNXXF7100 Owners Thread - Page 28 - AVS Forum

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LCD Flat Panel Displays

XBRSteve's Avatar XBRSteve
07:02 AM Liked: 14
post #811 of 5352
06-18-2013 | Posts: 661
Joined: Jun 2003
Quote:
Originally Posted by venus933 View Post

That review is from Nov. 2011. I'm not sure if the Sharp Elite is up to the task compared to the Panasonic VT60/ZT60 and Samsung F8500.

But then again I don't think those plasmas were able to blow off anyone's socks smile.gif
One guy in the elite forum has a F8500 and a Elite and says they are neck and neck in pq.

Ken Ross "The only current display that can compete with the Elite IMO, is the F8500. Owning both I can attest to that."
nyuushin's Avatar nyuushin
07:06 AM Liked: 12
post #812 of 5352
06-18-2013 | Posts: 21
Joined: Jun 2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr_Maestro View Post

Gaming question. I think I spoke too soon with my praise a few days ago! I have been playing Last Of Us on this set and in the dark scenes the 'darkness' level seems to go up and down drastically. For instance if I walk in to a dark house it is hard to see. But if I spin my few around and face a window where there is light coming in it gets way brighter. Then as I turn further away from the window it get's very dark. Beyond what seems normal. I don't know much about micro dimming but is this a result of micro dimming? Is there anything to I can do to help this out?

As a side note, I have tried both game mode on and off and do not notice any kind of lag, at least in the games I am playing.

Thanks for any help!

Yes, that is completely the result of micro dimming. If you turn Game Mode on, it will disable the dimming. I'm hopeful that in future firmware updates Samsung makes the micro dimming less aggressive. Also, if you don't want to turn Game Mode on, switch the picture profile to Movie as it will also disable the dimming.
rurifan's Avatar rurifan
08:28 AM Liked: 12
post #813 of 5352
06-18-2013 | Posts: 204
Joined: May 2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by nyuushin View Post

Yes, that is completely the result of micro dimming. If you turn Game Mode on, it will disable the dimming. I'm hopeful that in future firmware updates Samsung makes the micro dimming less aggressive. Also, if you don't want to turn Game Mode on, switch the picture profile to Movie as it will also disable the dimming.

Game Mode does not disable the "micro"-dimming. (Why do people call it that? It affects the whole screen.)

The only ways I know of to disable the dimming are:
1) Game Mode Off, Picture Mode set to Movie (not acceptable for gaming due to 112ms lag.)
2) PC Mode -- Press Input, swipe up to Tools, Edit Name, change the name to PC. (Less color options.)

An explicit control would be nice, but I'm not holding my breath.
matrix123's Avatar matrix123
08:32 AM Liked: 17
post #814 of 5352
06-18-2013 | Posts: 250
Joined: Jun 2013
I like the micro dimming on this set. I had to find a balance though when calibrating but after doing so everything looks great during the day and night.

Settings

Standard
10-14 Eco on
95
45
15
50
Color space- auto
White Balance 25 26 26 16 25 25
AMP- custom- blur 10 judder 0 clear motion on for blu ray. Clear for cable box.
Black tone darker
Everything else off.
teqzen's Avatar teqzen
08:53 AM Liked: 17
post #815 of 5352
06-18-2013 | Posts: 96
Joined: Jun 2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by nyuushin View Post

Yes, that is completely the result of micro dimming. If you turn Game Mode on, it will disable the dimming. I'm hopeful that in future firmware updates Samsung makes the micro dimming less aggressive. Also, if you don't want to turn Game Mode on, switch the picture profile to Movie as it will also disable the dimming.

I have XBox 360 and use modded buzzard767's for F8000 settings with Game Mode on, Picture Mode Standard, Backlight 14, Brightness 62, Dynamic contrast off, Black tone off, Cinema Black low, Energy Saving off, Eco Sensor off
Main thing that works for me is Brightness set higher than 50 to defeat auto dimming, for Skyrim i have to set it to 62 or higher or else my special Ebony Mail from Boethiah's Calling won't show green fog. If lower value the amour and fog is black with no detail & dungeons are too dark to spot lurking enemies.
rastan350's Avatar rastan350
09:12 AM Liked: 15
post #816 of 5352
06-18-2013 | Posts: 21
Joined: Jun 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr_Maestro View Post

Gaming question. I think I spoke too soon with my praise a few days ago! I have been playing Last Of Us on this set and in the dark scenes the 'darkness' level seems to go up and down drastically. For instance if I walk in to a dark house it is hard to see. But if I spin my few around and face a window where there is light coming in it gets way brighter. Then as I turn further away from the window it get's very dark. Beyond what seems normal. I don't know much about micro dimming but is this a result of micro dimming? Is there anything to I can do to help this out?

As a side note, I have tried both game mode on and off and do not notice any kind of lag, at least in the games I am playing.

Thanks for any help!

I will be getting my 65 F1000 on Thursday so this isn't from my own experience, but someone earlier mentioned that if you name your input to PC it will disable the micro dimming and possibly help with the issue you are having. There is post earlier in the thread with his experiences with it.
matrix123's Avatar matrix123
09:28 AM Liked: 17
post #817 of 5352
06-18-2013 | Posts: 250
Joined: Jun 2013
Just throwing this out there. For those wanting to test blu rays with a dark scene try using the movie Zero Dark Thirty. The scene towards the end when the seals attack the compound is good to calibrate for a dark scene.
GripTwister's Avatar GripTwister
09:56 AM Liked: 10
post #818 of 5352
06-18-2013 | Posts: 5
Joined: Jun 2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by kyzer the medic View Post

Nice to see another Abes price matching success... If I ever get a day without being crazy busy I'll stop and try to PM on the 55" model.

Wish I could report similar success last week. I brought my iPad into BB with me, with about eight sites bookmarked - each with prices well below BB's price. I talked to the manager about price matching, but he said he could match prices for only those sites that are authorized Samsung resellers. Of course, none of them were, and I knew that in advance of asking. The best he was willing to do was to offer me a $75 Monster cable for $25. I politely told him no thanks and departed. Later I tried again, and offered to buy an extended warranty if he would price match any of my bookmarked sites. He still wouldn't do it, so I drove home and ordered online. I purposely chose to get it from an authorized online reseller, and for the same price that BB wanted, but at least I saved $143 in sales tax. Congratulations to those who were more successful than I was.
skoobz's Avatar skoobz
11:36 AM Liked: 11
post #819 of 5352
06-18-2013 | Posts: 26
Joined: May 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by kyzer the medic View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by kyzer the medic View Post

Seems opinions very. can't hurt to try

And that was supposed to be VARY... Hate auto correct sometimes

I hear ya. Doesn't hurt to ask. It is like being in a bar and you just peeling the label of of the bottle and leering at that stacked brunette. Sure you know she's out of your league. She could be polishing your helmet later that night but there's no chance in hell that's going to happen if you don't approach her and ask. And it's how you ask. Don't be like, "yo, blue shirt, why yo **** so damn expensive? Lower that **** like Abe's and I might take that **** off yo hands."

Just posting the official rules of their policy so no one starts acting stupid when bb won't price match.

Sent from my SPH-L900 using Tapatalk 2
xsists's Avatar xsists
12:00 PM Liked: 11
post #820 of 5352
06-18-2013 | Posts: 60
Joined: Aug 2008
I fully thought they would deny me because I wasn't local to the store and it wasn't on their list. I just figured it can't hurt to try and it actually worked. Saved me about $275 after taxes.
kyzer the medic's Avatar kyzer the medic
12:21 PM Liked: 24
post #821 of 5352
06-18-2013 | Posts: 178
Joined: Apr 2010
I guess it all depends on what kind of sales associate you get .. Just like with anything some can be awesome and some can be real $(*&@Q)($* .. I also think like Skoobz said, its all in how you ask
xsists's Avatar xsists
12:52 PM Liked: 11
post #822 of 5352
06-18-2013 | Posts: 60
Joined: Aug 2008
Or maybe when you go, I went within a hour of close. They might have just been like yeah ok, get this guy out ASAP give him what he wants.
brehiser's Avatar brehiser
12:57 PM Liked: 13
post #823 of 5352
06-18-2013 | Posts: 47
Joined: Jun 2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by xsists View Post

Or maybe when you go, I went within a hour of close. They might have just been like yeah ok, get this guy out ASAP give him what he wants.

LOL thats actually a genius tactic.
Sebas Garcia's Avatar Sebas Garcia
01:03 PM Liked: 11
post #824 of 5352
06-18-2013 | Posts: 63
Joined: May 2013
Well i was watching a movie just minding my business when these bastards showed up ...... anybody come up with a fix yet , would really help




GripTwister's Avatar GripTwister
01:20 PM Liked: 10
post #825 of 5352
06-18-2013 | Posts: 5
Joined: Jun 2013
That must be it - I walked into BB too early. frown.gif Sounds similar to car shopping. Negotiating for a new car in the late afternoon on the last business day of the month can be more effective than waiting one or two days later. It also helps when dealerships keep sales progress charts on the walls for all salespersons, so you know who is only one or two cars away from meeting his/her monthly goal. cool.gif
nyuushin's Avatar nyuushin
01:25 PM Liked: 12
post #826 of 5352
06-18-2013 | Posts: 21
Joined: Jun 2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by rurifan View Post

Game Mode does not disable the "micro"-dimming. (Why do people call it that? It affects the whole screen.)

The only ways I know of to disable the dimming are:
1) Game Mode Off, Picture Mode set to Movie (not acceptable for gaming due to 112ms lag.)
2) PC Mode -- Press Input, swipe up to Tools, Edit Name, change the name to PC. (Less color options.)

An explicit control would be nice, but I'm not holding my breath.

My apologies, I was confusing Game Mode with the PC label, you're absolutely correct. I would love to see a discrete control or toggle as well. Also, it is actually "micro" dimming, obviously it can affect the whole screen if the whole scene is dark, but it can dim any shape or size of the screen discretely from the rest. I've noticed this when subtitles are on, and the scene pans from a coloured area to shadow across the subtitles, they darken then brighten once the shadow has passed, but only that area.

I really don't mean to sound picky either, but I find it kinda funny when people talk about something like 112 ms as "unacceptable" lag. I realize some games, and more often FPS's require fast reflexes, but we're literally talking about 1/10 of a second here. I honestly don't want to meet someone that is so competitive that level of difference is meaningful, and in most games where lag is a known issue (Just Dance, Singstar, other rhythm games) they nearly always have a setting to match the delay. Again, just my opinion here.
yeahthatone2000's Avatar yeahthatone2000
01:25 PM Liked: 10
post #827 of 5352
06-18-2013 | Posts: 7
Joined: Jul 2006
in regards to Micro Dimming on game mode.

if you want to eliminate this feature. try hooking up to the HDMI/DVI port (HDMI 4) and set it to game mode. for some odd reason micro dimming is shut off.

i was wondering why everyone was saying they were having problems with micro dimming on game mode. i never had a problem with micro dimming on game mode. that's until i remembered that had my game systems plugged into HDMI/DVI port. i believe it is adjustable when you are on that port.

regards,
nyuushin's Avatar nyuushin
01:38 PM Liked: 12
post #828 of 5352
06-18-2013 | Posts: 21
Joined: Jun 2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by teqzen View Post

I have XBox 360 and use modded buzzard767's for F8000 settings with Game Mode on, Picture Mode Standard, Backlight 14, Brightness 62, Dynamic contrast off, Black tone off, Cinema Black low, Energy Saving off, Eco Sensor off
Main thing that works for me is Brightness set higher than 50 to defeat auto dimming, for Skyrim i have to set it to 62 or higher or else my special Ebony Mail from Boethiah's Calling won't show green fog. If lower value the amour and fog is black with no detail & dungeons are too dark to spot lurking enemies.

Just as a question, have you tried turning the cinema black off? I've noticed that even on low, and with the changes others have said they've seen in FW1104, it's very aggressive on dark scenes. That brightness of 62 sounds very high, especially without turning on a lower black level, I think I'd much rather switch to a mode that just turned the micro dimming off, unless your TV has noticeable clouding or flashlighting in dark areas.
Mr_Maestro's Avatar Mr_Maestro
02:01 PM Liked: 10
post #829 of 5352
06-18-2013 | Posts: 37
Joined: Jul 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by teqzen View Post

I have XBox 360 and use modded buzzard767's for F8000 settings with Game Mode on, Picture Mode Standard, Backlight 14, Brightness 62, Dynamic contrast off, Black tone off, Cinema Black low, Energy Saving off, Eco Sensor off
Main thing that works for me is Brightness set higher than 50 to defeat auto dimming, for Skyrim i have to set it to 62 or higher or else my special Ebony Mail from Boethiah's Calling won't show green fog. If lower value the amour and fog is black with no detail & dungeons are too dark to spot lurking enemies.

Thanks for the tip! I set the brightness to 65 and it works perfect now. No dimming effect (at least that I notice).
rurifan's Avatar rurifan
02:12 PM Liked: 12
post #830 of 5352
06-18-2013 | Posts: 204
Joined: May 2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by nyuushin View Post

I really don't mean to sound picky either, but I find it kinda funny when people talk about something like 112 ms as "unacceptable" lag. I realize some games, and more often FPS's require fast reflexes, but we're literally talking about 1/10 of a second here. I honestly don't want to meet someone that is so competitive that level of difference is meaningful, and in most games where lag is a known issue (Just Dance, Singstar, other rhythm games) they nearly always have a setting to match the delay. Again, just my opinion here.

1/10th of a second may not sound like much, but even a normal person is going to feel that. They may not realize it's why the game feels sluggish and difficult, but this will impact enjoyment. If you have an HTPC hooked up to the tv, try moving the mouse around. It feels like it's moving through sludge and is hard to control due to the 100ms+ lag. The difference between 17ms(W802A game mode) and 39ms(F7100 game mode) is in the realm that only twitch-gamers will notice though.

One thing I don't understand is how people tolerate 100ms+ of video lag when not using an HTPC video player that supports arbitrary audio delays. Do most receivers let you delay by such huge amounts now days? Mine only allows 0 or 60ms.
maytime's Avatar maytime
03:16 PM Liked: 18
post #831 of 5352
06-18-2013 | Posts: 269
Joined: Apr 2008
I got my 60" F7100 (F7050 for me) delivered today and input all of PirateCove's settings he pasted from somewhere and so far I am very happy with the TV. Blu-rays look great, video game performance (with game mode ON) is solid. It is taking me a little getting used to how some scenes look because my 6.5 year old Sony KDS-50A2000 wasn't a sharp a picture and some of the motion scenes look odd to me so far, but I have a feeling it is because of the upgraded picture I'm not used to yet. The screen is a tad reflective, but the only things that reflect for me are two lights behind the couch that can be turned off. Not a huge fan of the "smart" remote yet (I wish it had directional discrete buttons.

As for game performance, I played a few rounds of Battlefield 3 on Xbox 360 to test the input lag and it is not noticeable to me. I'm pretty good at that game and was still getting my usual 2:1 K:D and did not notice any disadvantage in firefights compared to my old TV. I also played Tomb Raider since I know that game is mostly dark and I didn't notice blacks being off or non-uniform. Watching Skyfall on my PS3 right now and only see minimal edge bleed, no clouding, very minimal flashlighting. After just a couple hours of use, I am very happy with my purchase. I have not tried any 3D stuff yet since I have no 3D movies, so I'll give that a go at some point.

One thing I do already find annoying is how far Game Mode is buried in the menus. Sure would be nice to have that just one layer down or the ability to program it to a macro. I guess I just have to get used to it. Can a receiver or Logitech remote make Game Mode a macro command? My Onkyo remote has macro buttons that I never use.

EDIT - Also, what do you guys set Auto Motion Plus (AMP) to? The recommended settings didn't name one in particular.
nyuushin's Avatar nyuushin
03:32 PM Liked: 12
post #832 of 5352
06-18-2013 | Posts: 21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rurifan View Post

1/10th of a second may not sound like much, but even a normal person is going to feel that. They may not realize it's why the game feels sluggish and difficult, but this will impact enjoyment. If you have an HTPC hooked up to the tv, try moving the mouse around. It feels like it's moving through sludge and is hard to control due to the 100ms+ lag. The difference between 17ms(W802A game mode) and 39ms(F7100 game mode) is in the realm that only twitch-gamers will notice though.

One thing I don't understand is how people tolerate 100ms+ of video lag when not using an HTPC video player that supports arbitrary audio delays. Do most receivers let you delay by such huge amounts now days? Mine only allows 0 or 60ms.

I'm not trying to pass off a 1/10 second latency as negligible, I just think it's something most people can live with quite easily and compensate automatically for. Of course I wish it was better, but as you've said (and I agree) Game Mode is a good remedy (unless the micro dimming becomes a problem.) I just wish it wasn't such a PITA to activate. I don't have an HTPC setup, but I understand where you're coming from that you would probably notice a slight lag there, which the PC label pretty much takes care of if others are to be believed (I can't speak for it's impact on PQ however).

I'm not sure that most people can really hear the 100ms+- audio lag (maybe we'll just have to disagree on the feedback threshold). I can only speak for myself but I output my sound using Toslink to my speakers (I know its only 2.0, but my setup is only 2.1 anyway, my delay is set to 50ms and it can go as high as 250 when outputting digitally from the TV) and neither myself or anyone who's watched something with me has found a problem with audio sync. Plus, even with your setup you're talking now about 40-50 ms of audio lag which is honestly barely audible. I completely understand the drive for perfection (or at the very least minimal delay), but I think hard numbers just make it more perceptible (or perhaps seem like it).

I guess what I'm saying is, for a majority of people, it's more than good enough with or maybe without just some minor tweaking. I'm not saying that's right, especially for a piece of 2013 technology worth 1000's of $$$, it's just reality. I'm actually glad there are people like you, they keep the Sonys and Samsungs on their toes in terms of quality. :-)
nyuushin's Avatar nyuushin
03:45 PM Liked: 12
post #833 of 5352
06-18-2013 | Posts: 21
Joined: Jun 2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by maytime View Post

EDIT - Also, what do you guys set Auto Motion Plus (AMP) to? The recommended settings didn't name one in particular.
For regular shows and movies, off is best, Clear is good for sports or anything with fast action.

As for the Game Mode Macro, it's possible to program a command series into a Logitech remote that will do the steps of opening the menu and the other commands, but there's no discrete button or command to do it.
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1221898/harmony-one-and-samsun-8500-game-mode-question/0_100 is a little older forum topic, but still relevant.
maytime's Avatar maytime
03:54 PM Liked: 18
post #834 of 5352
06-18-2013 | Posts: 269
Joined: Apr 2008
Okay so if I turn on Game Mode, does that over-ride all custom picture setting that I had set up for that HDMI source? I turned Game Mode on, noticed the settings weren't the same as I just had inputed so I updated them. Then I flipped to Game Mode Off and back to Game Mode On and my custom settings that I made while Game Mode was on previously were back to the default. I clicked on Apply to Source when I made them...

Update - nevermind, looks like just sharpness and color were not updated. Now they are okay.
rurifan's Avatar rurifan
04:04 PM Liked: 12
post #835 of 5352
06-18-2013 | Posts: 204
Joined: May 2013
That remindes me...

I was playing with PerPixAn on the F7100, it seems to me that AMP Blur Reduction controls Response Time Compensation (RTC). It doesn't quite look like the Coronas / Inverse Ghosting I've seen described. Specifically, I only see white coronas, not the dark ones, on the streak test.

Anybody know more about this?

It causes weird artifacts in the Flicker box on the main menu though, so maybe it's also doing some kind of picture processing.
maytime's Avatar maytime
04:22 PM Liked: 18
post #836 of 5352
06-18-2013 | Posts: 269
Joined: Apr 2008
I'm fiddling with sound settings to try to get my 7100 to output DD/DTS 5.1 to my receiver via optical output, but only PCM and a Neo6 codec are highlighted for use eventhough I am watching a DD5.1 HD channel. My only two choices for Speaker Settings are "TV Speaker" and "External Speaker". "Receiver" is grayed out which I have a feeling needs to be available to be able to choose DD or DTS in the "Digital Audio Out" setting. My receiver is a 6.5 year old Onkyo by the way with HDMI v1.1, so maybe the TV can't recognize it as connected?
PiratesCove's Avatar PiratesCove
04:37 PM Liked: 122
post #837 of 5352
06-18-2013 | Posts: 4,079
Joined: Jan 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by yeahthatone2000 View Post

in regards to Micro Dimming on game mode.

if you want to eliminate this feature. try hooking up to the HDMI/DVI port (HDMI 4) and set it to game mode. for some odd reason micro dimming is shut off.

i was wondering why everyone was saying they were having problems with micro dimming on game mode. i never had a problem with micro dimming on game mode. that's until i remembered that had my game systems plugged into HDMI/DVI port. i believe it is adjustable when you are on that port.

regards,

Nice find.
maytime's Avatar maytime
04:48 PM Liked: 18
post #838 of 5352
06-18-2013 | Posts: 269
Joined: Apr 2008
Where is the micro dimming setting buried in the menus when you are using the HDMI4 input?
nyuushin's Avatar nyuushin
05:31 PM Liked: 12
post #839 of 5352
06-18-2013 | Posts: 21
Joined: Jun 2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by maytime View Post

I'm fiddling with sound settings to try to get my 7100 to output DD/DTS 5.1 to my receiver via optical output, but only PCM and a Neo6 codec are highlighted for use eventhough I am watching a DD5.1 HD channel. My only two choices for Speaker Settings are "TV Speaker" and "External Speaker". "Receiver" is grayed out which I have a feeling needs to be available to be able to choose DD or DTS in the "Digital Audio Out" setting. My receiver is a 6.5 year old Onkyo by the way with HDMI v1.1, so maybe the TV can't recognize it as connected?

It's impossible to output 5.1 from any source other than broadcast (I.e, internal tuner). Anything connected by HDMI gets down sampled to 2.0 before being piped through the optical port. The reason "Receiver" is greyed out is because it's for ARC (aka, HDMI 2 input) but I believe this is also down sampled.
kyzer the medic's Avatar kyzer the medic
07:34 PM Liked: 24
post #840 of 5352
06-18-2013 | Posts: 178
Joined: Apr 2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by PiratesCove View Post

Nice find.
That would bypass the receiver and wouldn't allow for surround sound in games, am I correct ?
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