Official Samsung UNXXF7100 Owners Thread - Page 67 - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1981 of 5470 Old 08-13-2013, 03:29 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Nom de QWERTY View Post

That's one thing that still worries me. We got our set from Costco and have about 3 weeks left in our 90 day grace period. We get some digital noise that we didn't notice with our previous HDTV. I think it's macroblocking - it's squares or areas of discoloration, almost always in some sort of dark color - dark blue shirt, dark red drapes, or a shadowed area, for example. We've noticed it more frequently in SD sources, though we've seen it occasionally in HD. I'm not too worried about the occasional appearance over satellite - I can chalk that up to the heavy compression they use. But it worries me a lot more when I see it off of a DVD. Yes, I understand that DVDs aren't in HD, but I would expect that the signal from a professionally produced DVD would at least be "clean", especially from a good unit like our Oppo Blu-ray. Could the TV be the source of the noise? Or is it just going to mercilessly expose any imperfection?

Sounds like you have some color banding- not to be confused with banding (vertical or horizontal - lighter or darker areas).

Color banding is due to 8-bit color gradient - or transitions between slightly similar colors.

http://easyhdtv.blogspot.com/2007/02/color-banding-on-hdtv-display.html

The real test is a high quality Blu-ray to check the F7100's true performance.

I still think its a source issue, with maybe minor processing weakness from the F7100.
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post #1982 of 5470 Old 08-13-2013, 03:45 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by travelerj View Post

I checked out the links you posted and I understand the concept you propose however I'm unsure how to set up the TV to display DirectTV over RVU without a HDMI. Could you provide more detail?

I don't have experience with RVU, other that being a DirecTV salesman (in the past).

From what I remember - the F7100 becomes part of the Genie's network like a Mini-Genie.

Look in Sources - scroll to the far right (or left) you should see RVU.

The TV Manual should explain the use and set up.

This is an older set up from the D series, it should still work:

http://support-us.samsung.com/cyber/popup/iframe/pop_troubleshooting_fr.jsp?idx=394882&modelname=UN55D6000SF&modelcode=&session_id=TLQDGgVhJyJqLKFlpcpRy6Sp8NBSLxVsGK4bkFjtwp5hHJyhy1bt!-2057785159!1761676444!7501!-1!-40730456!1761676348!7501!-1!1321947331078

You many need a DirecTV Ethernet Coaxial Adapter, and/or Router (maybe DNLA network?).
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post #1983 of 5470 Old 08-13-2013, 03:46 PM
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Originally Posted by RexHarrison View Post

I was just in Costco yesterday picking up a 55" F7050. I saw the ES or EH I forget which one but it was last years model. It looked like garbage compared to all the other tvs. It may have just been the settings but the colors were way off and the picture looked really flat. I would go with the 55" for $30 cheaper. I think you'll be much happier with the PQ and overall performance.

I noticed the same this when viewing the ES in Costco but it must have been the feed. The un60f6350a they had in Costco playing a blue ray looked pretty freagin amazing! Also, assuming this was feed related. I don't trust my eyes in the store, too many variables.

Wish they had F7050 in my Costco. Will have to wait a week or so to get my 4th tv from Amazon. The ST60 I received last Friday broke after 1 day of use. Literally couldn't turn in on when i woke up Saturday morning. I was at least able to view it enough to tell that it probably wasn't going to work in my bright living room.

Hoping the F7100 will be the best and final one. I'm sure it will have some clouding but I've learned I'll just have to deal with that to get LED contrast and brightness. Just hoping I can get decent shadow detail.
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post #1984 of 5470 Old 08-13-2013, 03:49 PM
 
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Originally Posted by PiratesCove View Post

TD01 is a Samsung panel.

It was weird last night, I had noticeable clouding and flashlighting at first while watching cable, but when I switched over to my PS3 and put it in game mode it completely went away. I was playing BF3 and the loading screen for that game is all black except for the bottom right side corner which has "loading" in white with a flashing white square. The rest of the screen was pitch black.

I did watch a little 3D content about 30min to an hour before it got dark in the room. I've heard that watching 3D can create some flashlighting but what about clouding? And how long does that lingering effect last after you stop the 3D ?
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post #1985 of 5470 Old 08-13-2013, 04:03 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RexHarrison View Post

It was weird last night, I had noticeable clouding and flashlighting at first while watching cable, but when I switched over to my PS3 and put it in game mode it completely went away. I was playing BF3 and the loading screen for that game is all black except for the bottom right side corner which has "loading" in white with a flashing white square. The rest of the screen was pitch black.

I did watch a little 3D content about 30min to an hour before it got dark in the room. I've heard that watching 3D can create some flashlighting but what about clouding? And how long does that lingering effect last after you stop the 3D ?

Game Mode defaults to Standard.

Standard has Micro-Dimming which can reduce clouding and flashlighting.

I do notice some flashlighting during 3D (only on dark backgrounds) and after switching back to 2D.

Things usually go back to "normal" for me after around 3 min or less.

This is most like due to my F7100 going from backlight- 20 (3D) to backlight -14 (2D) and the down to backlight - 6 (Eco Sensor).
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post #1986 of 5470 Old 08-13-2013, 04:26 PM
 
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Originally Posted by PiratesCove View Post

Game Mode defaults to Standard.

Standard has Micro-Dimming which can reduce clouding and flashlighting.

I do notice some flashlighting during 3D (only on dark backgrounds) and after switching back to 2D.

Things usually go back to "normal" for me after around 3 min or less.

This is most like due to my F7100 going from backlight- 20 (3D) to backlight -14 (2D) and the down to backlight - 6 (Eco Sensor).

Interesting thanks.

Does the Movie setting use micro dimming ? Because that's what I was using mostly last night except when I was on my PS3.
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post #1987 of 5470 Old 08-13-2013, 04:27 PM
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UN60F7050 Running Firmware 1110

When I switch my cable box from HD to SD I get the following:

"check the device is connected properly then try turning on the device by selecting the button below"

Then there is the cable box and an ok box. If you click ok the dialogue box goes away. If you click the cable box. it turns the cable off. When goin
from SD/Hd everything works fine. There has to be a set-up or toggle I'm missing. Has anyone else encountered this and fixed it?

Thanks.
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post #1988 of 5470 Old 08-13-2013, 05:06 PM
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Originally Posted by mgh26 View Post

Here's the way I see it. If I had the choices between owning the ES7100, ES8000, F7100 or the F8000

ES7100 or F7100 .. No Brainer. The F7100 has much better color accuracy, better over-all uniformity the latest Smart Hub, better Blacks and a much higher Contrast Ratio.Slightly better viewing angle on the F7100.and better 3D. I can't think of any ES7100 adantages.. Not sure about Gaming performance between these two
F7100 or F8000. Harder choice. F7100 has a Much Higher measured Contrast Ratio. It also has much better Gaming performance. Lacks a Camera feature and has less hardware diming zones but apparently this extra hardware/software processing may be contributing to the higher input game lag that all gamers HATE! Motion is not perfect on either TV. Well for the money, IMHO, the F7100 Wins again!!
ES8000 or F8000 Hard choice again. The ES Series had more panel uniformity issues then the F Series but neither are perfect. BUT .... The most unbelieveable difference between these two is the measured Contrast Ratio. The ES8000 is just WAY better (just like the F7100 compared to the F8000) l will give this choice a Tie since the F8000 does have several advantages over the ES 8000 Series. I just bet if you viewed these two TV's side by side (assuming both had good panels) the ES would look slightly better.

So does PiratesCove have the best Samsung TV out there? Well for the money... it's the 2nd best....... I got mine around 1 week earlier so mine is better.biggrin.gif

What are you basing your contrast ratio numbers on? Sorry, I'm suspicious of the numbers televisionInfo has published.

1) How the TV is calibrated can have a dramatic effect on those measurements

2) I don't see the F7100 having some magical panel that the F8000 lacks. I see them having very similar panels with the F8000 having an actual diming scheme

3) Most reviews have praised the black levels of the F8000 with it being among the best of LED displays. Not saying the F7100 is not as good, I suspect it's as good but I have a hunch it lacks dark detail compared to the F8000 thanks to its "real" dimming scheme

No, I'm not in a position to see both the ES8000 and F8000 side by side in my home but Katzmaier has tested both televisions and unless he's way off kilter the ES8000 is not even in the same league as the F8000. He dumped on the ES8000 for uniformity issues and light blacks.

http://reviews.cnet.com/flat-panel-tvs/samsung-un55f8000/4505-6482_7-35576107-2.html

"Black level: The UNF8000 delivers the best performance in this category of any edge-lit Samsung LED TV yet, surpassing last year's ES8000 and its predecessors by a wide margin."

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post #1989 of 5470 Old 08-13-2013, 05:07 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RexHarrison View Post


Interesting thanks.

Does the Movie setting use micro dimming ? Because that's what I was using mostly last night except when I was on my PS3.

No Micro-Dimming in Movie mode and that's why I prefer it. I have Zero clouds so....its awesome.

I use Movie for DirecTV and Blu-ray. Standard for Xbox360 (Game Mode).

Natural and Dynamic also have Micro-Dimming.

Micro-Dimming was Samsung's edge-lit LED answer to backlight full-array LED local-dimming.

Samsung lost a lawsuit to Sharp over patents and since 2010 can't make local-dimming HDTV's.
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post #1990 of 5470 Old 08-13-2013, 05:23 PM
 
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Originally Posted by PiratesCove View Post

No Micro-Dimming in Movie mode and that's why I prefer it. I have Zero clouds so....its awesome.

I use Movie for DirecTV and Blu-ray. Standard for Xbox360 (Game Mode).

Natural and Dynamic also have Micro-Dimming.

Micro-Dimming was Samsung's edge-lit LED answer to backlight full-array LED local-dimming.

Samsung lost a lawsuit to Sharp over patents and since 2010 can't make local-dimming HDTV's.

Thanks. On the left side of my screen I have what looks like a line of dull pixels from top to bottom before the picture ends. I've seen this on a few displays, my Vizio M had it on the left and right side and it was worse, the 55" F7050 on display at Costco had it on the right edge, as well as a few others. Do you know what this is caused by ? Is this a manufacturing defect on some panels ?
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post #1991 of 5470 Old 08-13-2013, 05:32 PM
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PiratesCove, look at it this way. I’m using Reverse psychology

I’m bad mouthing the F7100 so when I get one I’ll have to eat a bunch of crow. It’ll be worth it if it means I get a good panel!

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post #1992 of 5470 Old 08-13-2013, 05:46 PM
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Do you guys think that the calibration settings used in this thread (Pirates Cove's Setting) would work for my F6400 Series. Correct me if i'm wrong but I believe my model is just one step down. When I also switch to game mode on my model the PQ isn't as great. I'm slowly reading through other posts.
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post #1993 of 5470 Old 08-13-2013, 05:55 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RexHarrison View Post

Thanks. On the left side of my screen I have what looks like a line of dull pixels from top to bottom before the picture ends. I've seen this on a few displays, my Vizio M had it on the left and right side and it was worse, the 55" F7050 on display at Costco had it on the right edge, as well as a few others. Do you know what this is caused by ? Is this a manufacturing defect on some panels ?

Its the Ultra-thin bezel, the L.E.D.s are in a really tight space.

So the tight space (pressure) and light refraction angle cause the "pencil lines" as another member called it.

Its normal- not a defect the only F7100's that don't have it are the 60" models with its Thin bezel.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uar1HI8KgGk

At 10:00 Minutes you can see the internal make-up of a similar Samsung model.
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post #1994 of 5470 Old 08-13-2013, 06:16 PM
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New to this, was wondering if anyone would recommend best buy's calibration service, is it worth it or should I pass?
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post #1995 of 5470 Old 08-13-2013, 07:30 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Angelp1977 View Post

New to this, was wondering if anyone would recommend best buy's calibration service, is it worth it or should I pass?

I have the free option- being a Reward Zone Silver member....

It just doesn't interest me- I have heard that some Best Buy "calibrations" are very limited.

On the other hand, I also heard that about a year ago Best Buy went with ISF Certified calibrators:

http://www.imagingscience.com/

Honestly, I like my currents settings too much to schedule my free Best Buy calibration.
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post #1996 of 5470 Old 08-13-2013, 07:59 PM
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Originally Posted by PiratesCove View Post

I have the free option- being a Reward Zone Silver member....

It just doesn't interest me- I have heard that some Best Buy "calibrations" are very limited.

On the other hand, I also heard that about a year ago Best Buy went with ISF Certified calibrators:

http://www.imagingscience.com/

Honestly, I like my currents settings too much to schedule my free Best Buy calibration.


Cool, a reward silver member as well, gonna try it and see, thanks for the feedback on this
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post #1997 of 5470 Old 08-13-2013, 09:39 PM
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Originally Posted by venus933 View Post

What are you basing your contrast ratio numbers on? Sorry, I'm suspicious of the numbers televisionInfo has published.

1) How the TV is calibrated can have a dramatic effect on those measurements

2) I don't see the F7100 having some magical panel that the F8000 lacks. I see them having very similar panels with the F8000 having an actual diming scheme

3) Most reviews have praised the black levels of the F8000 with it being among the best of LED displays. Not saying the F7100 is not as good, I suspect it's as good but I have a hunch it lacks dark detail compared to the F8000 thanks to its "real" dimming scheme

No, I'm not in a position to see both the ES8000 and F8000 side by side in my home but Katzmaier has tested both televisions and unless he's way off kilter the ES8000 is not even in the same league as the F8000. He dumped on the ES8000 for uniformity issues and light blacks.

http://reviews.cnet.com/flat-panel-tvs/samsung-un55f8000/4505-6482_7-35576107-2.html

"Black level: The UNF8000 delivers the best performance in this category of any edge-lit Samsung LED TV yet, surpassing last year's ES8000 and its predecessors by a wide margin."
I did use the Contrast numbers published from Televisioninfo.com and as far as being "supicious" about the published numbers, I'm basing the results based upon all of the TV's tested were done with the same published test method. So if the numbers were not 100% accurate in their method of reaching their test results, as long as all TV's were tested the same way, then the numbers should be OK to use for compairson don't you think? I have owned a ES7100 and a F7100 so my comparisons of those two were also based upon my excperience having had them both for some time. I beleive the F8000 doesn't have a panel inferior to the F7100, I think the extra hardware/other differences may be the reason the ratio of the F8000 is not as high as the F7100 but thats just a guess. I also have really can't see how the F8000 has better blacks since the measured blacks on the F7100 compared to the F8000 (again using televisioninfo.com) are slightly lower which contributes to the higher Contrast ratio. I agree that the ES8000 has less consistant panel uniformity but again the measured black levels were quite a bit lower on the ES8000 compared to the F8000. One thing you made a good point though is shadow detail on the F8000 is mostlikly better then the F7100 in that regard based on the panel dimming feature. The rest of my thoughts are based on what I have read onf the Samsung TV forums for a quite some time now.... This is just my opinion anyways.cool.gif
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post #1998 of 5470 Old 08-13-2013, 09:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by venus933 View Post

What are you basing your contrast ratio numbers on? Sorry, I'm suspicious of the numbers televisionInfo has published.

1) How the TV is calibrated can have a dramatic effect on those measurements

2) I don't see the F7100 having some magical panel that the F8000 lacks. I see them having very similar panels with the F8000 having an actual diming scheme

3) Most reviews have praised the black levels of the F8000 with it being among the best of LED displays. Not saying the F7100 is not as good, I suspect it's as good but I have a hunch it lacks dark detail compared to the F8000 thanks to its "real" dimming scheme

No, I'm not in a position to see both the ES8000 and F8000 side by side in my home but Katzmaier has tested both televisions and unless he's way off kilter the ES8000 is not even in the same league as the F8000. He dumped on the ES8000 for uniformity issues and light blacks.

http://reviews.cnet.com/flat-panel-tvs/samsung-un55f8000/4505-6482_7-35576107-2.html

Sorry Double post????
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post #1999 of 5470 Old 08-13-2013, 10:53 PM
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Originally Posted by teqzen View Post

DVD resolution is 480i (720 × 480 @60) . You can only upconvert what's there. Crap upconverted is upconverted crap, meaning the source material and compression has to be good before it gets to the upconverting device and the upconverting device can add noise also.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DVD-Video
Blu-ray resolution is 1080P (1920×1080@30). Like before its all based on the source material and compression, it has to be good before it gets to the upconverting device and the upconverting device can add noise also.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blu-ray_Disc

I have seen some good Criterion DVD and foreign movies with very little compression artifacts, but i notice Fox,WB,Universal and other american companies put out some really crappy dvds with horrible compression and mpeg artifacts even when the movies is less than 6 months old.
Most of the major DVD companies don't care, they did care when the format was new, but Blu-ray is here so i don't its gonna improve.
They want people to re buy Blu-Ray, then 4k and so on.mad.gif

So that sounds like a vote for "mercilessly exposing imperfections"...
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post #2000 of 5470 Old 08-13-2013, 11:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PiratesCove View Post

Sounds like you have some color banding- not to be confused with banding (vertical or horizontal - lighter or darker areas).

Color banding is due to 8-bit color gradient - or transitions between slightly similar colors.

http://easyhdtv.blogspot.com/2007/02/color-banding-on-hdtv-display.html

The real test is a high quality Blu-ray to check the F7100's true performance.

I still think its a source issue, with maybe minor processing weakness from the F7100.

I don't think it's color banding. I've seen that before, and it doesn't look anything like this. My wife calls it pixelization. You're probably right about the source issue, however. And I'm sure I'm just getting nervous that my return period is coming to an end - dropping this kind of cash, I feel like I want to be sure that A: I made the right choice and B: I got a good version of the one I chose. My fear is that it's the TV that's somehow producing the noise, rather than just showing the noise that's already there.

BTW, the DVD is Dr. Horrible's Sing-Along Blog. The scene is toward the end, and the noise is in the dark red curtains...
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post #2001 of 5470 Old 08-14-2013, 09:39 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Nom de QWERTY View Post

I don't think it's color banding. I've seen that before, and it doesn't look anything like this. My wife calls it pixelization. You're probably right about the source issue, however. And I'm sure I'm just getting nervous that my return period is coming to an end - dropping this kind of cash, I feel like I want to be sure that A: I made the right choice and B: I got a good version of the one I chose. My fear is that it's the TV that's somehow producing the noise, rather than just showing the noise that's already there.

BTW, the DVD is Dr. Horrible's Sing-Along Blog. The scene is toward the end, and the noise is in the dark red curtains...

I'd check a quality BluRay that others recommend and can say for sure have no crushed blacks, macroblocking, "pixelating" or whatever you want to call it. For example I watched 'The Good, The Bad, And The Ugly' BluRay last night. I can say for sure that I had no issues whatsoever with the picture. Its not the greatest transfer but it does look great on my F7050. Blacks were beautiful, shadow detail was good, some great contrast on display with some dark grizzled faces against a bright sunny desert. Cinema black worked beautifully in standard mode, which gave me the darkest and most consistent black bars I've seen on an LED lit screen.

I don't know if westerns are your cup of tea, but I will be watching many more BluRays and will let you know if I see any of what you're describing.
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post #2002 of 5470 Old 08-14-2013, 01:04 PM
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I have the same issue of the dancing white square. It's very annoying.

Has anyone resolved this?

Thanks in advance.
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post #2003 of 5470 Old 08-14-2013, 02:13 PM
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The 1108 FW update fixed that problem for me.
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post #2004 of 5470 Old 08-14-2013, 02:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by onebigholiday View Post

I have the same issue of the dancing white square. It's very annoying.

Has anyone resolved this?

Thanks in advance.
So can you please tell us what firmware version your TV currently has installed with this re-visited dancing white square problem? I really had thought this problem had been resolved. I've never seen any Samsung firmware change's listed to fix this but that doesn't mean it wasn't addressed though. I guess I'm used to the way Samsung does nothing to really document their firmware updates at any useful level of accuracy.eek.gif
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post #2005 of 5470 Old 08-14-2013, 02:47 PM
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Originally Posted by PiratesCove View Post

I have the free option- being a Reward Zone Silver member....

It just doesn't interest me- I have heard that some Best Buy "calibrations" are very limited.

On the other hand, I also heard that about a year ago Best Buy went with ISF Certified calibrators:

http://www.imagingscience.com/

Honestly, I like my currents settings too much to schedule my free Best Buy calibration.
What's a good reference blu ray for all around PQ ?
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post #2006 of 5470 Old 08-14-2013, 02:49 PM
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UN60F7050 Running Firmware 1110

When I switch my cable box from HD to SD I get the following:

"check the device is connected properly then try turning on the device by selecting the button below"

Then there is the cable box and an ok box. If you click ok the dialogue box goes away. If you click the cable box. it turns the cable off. When goin
from SD/Hd everything works fine. There has to be a set-up or toggle I'm missing. Has anyone else encountered this and fixed it?

Thanks.
I had the same problem, but it was when switching inputs on an AVR.

The solution for me was to go into "universal remote setup" and delete the cable box. You won't be able to use the samsung smart tv remote for your cable box but it stops the popup message. The reason for the popup is the TV looking for the device when you switch inputs or in your case adjust from HD to SD.
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post #2007 of 5470 Old 08-14-2013, 03:42 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Nom de QWERTY View Post

I don't think it's color banding. I've seen that before, and it doesn't look anything like this. My wife calls it pixelization. You're probably right about the source issue, however. And I'm sure I'm just getting nervous that my return period is coming to an end - dropping this kind of cash, I feel like I want to be sure that A: I made the right choice and B: I got a good version of the one I chose. My fear is that it's the TV that's somehow producing the noise, rather than just showing the noise that's already there.

That's a natural reaction..could be macroblocking and some color banding:

This explains color depth- the F7100 is 8-bit:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color_depth#High_color_.2815.2F16-bit.29
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post #2008 of 5470 Old 08-14-2013, 03:57 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Angelp1977 View Post

Cool, a reward silver member as well, gonna try it and see, thanks for the feedback on this

Sure, If you get it I hope you share your calibration experience and settings.
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post #2009 of 5470 Old 08-14-2013, 04:08 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by mgh26 View Post

I have owned a ES7100 and a F7100 so my comparisons of those two were also based upon my excperience having had them both for some time.

+1, I have had the Samsung A850, D630, D6900, ES7100 and F7100.

The Television Info reviews have been spot on for the A750 (close to the A850), D630, D6500 (close to the D6900), ES7100 (close to the F8000) and F7100.

In my Opinion the F8000 is an updated ES7100. Look at the bezel/panel design its almost identical.

Then check the Television Info contrast and viewing angle numbers for the F8000 and ES7100 - once again almost identical.

I think the Difference between the ES7100 and F8000 is the moving of the boards to reduce clouding and a better motion resolution processor.
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post #2010 of 5470 Old 08-14-2013, 04:13 PM
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Originally Posted by PiratesCove View Post

I think the Difference between the ES7100 and F8000 is the moving of the boards to reduce clouding and a better motion resolution processor.
Have you seen any real comparison of the difference in motion capabilities?
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