Official Sony [X9] XBR-55X900A / XBR-65X900A Owner's Thread - Page 163 - AVS Forum
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post #4861 of 11901 Old 01-18-2014, 04:23 PM
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I own the 65X850A and it comes with 4 pairs of active 3D glasses. Let me just say that SimulView games rock. Wish there were more but hey.
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post #4862 of 11901 Old 01-18-2014, 06:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jjnbos View Post


I then tried an reset on the cinema/cinema 1 for the normal and advanced settings and shizam! amazing picture. If you are curious, I'd love to know what you guys with the fancy calibration gear find has changed. I think others agree that Sony tweaked up the setting in the recent update(s)


I tried resetting to defaults and you are right - comparing to my calibrated scene select, no contest default is way better-- although I prefer warm 1 to neutral and a few other minor tweaks.

So maybe I'm crazy but I'm just saying screw my calibration. Heh
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post #4863 of 11901 Old 01-18-2014, 07:13 PM
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Originally Posted by jjnbos View Post

I guess I got a wild hair or something and decided to just reset all the "picture" settings; you know the "backlight", "hue", advanced, the whole darn thing. Reset on the "picture" menu and the second reset on the "advanced" submenu.

I am --->amazed<--- about how outstanding that looks now on "cinema/cinema 1", with the --->one change<--- on advanced menu of setting "black correct" to high, and one setting on the main menu with the "reality creation"set to auto and manual/"mastered in 4k" on. (You might have to monkey with Reality first set to manual so you can turn on Mi4K, and then back to auto….

Not sure what happened, but I'm happy to the point of being evangelical. Am I on drugs?

 

 

OK, I had some time to investigate the results of resetting everything to factory defaults, and here is what I found.  Just to make sure we are on the same page, I set the scene to "General" and chose "Standard" as the picture.  I reset everything to factory defaults, including the White Balance settings.  The resulting settings included some major deviations from my calibrated settings, including Color Temperature=Neutral, and most of the special settings set to Auto instead of off.  In other words, quite a departure from the calibrated settings that I have posted.

 

I don't judge here--if you find the factory default settings more pleasing to you, then there is nothing wrong with that.  But let's be clear, the factory settings are far from what most experts would consider as being "accurate".  Here are the results:

 

Color Temperature=Standard results in a color temperature of 9555, where "accurate" is defined as 6500.

 

The factory default settings result in a Luminance of 47, where a value of 40 is closer to the desired setting for a typical low light viewing room.

 

Two-point gray scale (DeltaE for Standard settings is off the chart; calibrated settings have an extremely low DeltaE, indicating better accuracy)

 

Multi-point gamma and grayscale (First screenshot is Factory standard settings, second is calibrated setting for 2.4 gamma):

 

 

 

The Factory settings produced terrible gamma tracking and RGB balance, while the calibrated settings were close to perfect.

 

Finally the Color Management Settings (again, first is the factory default settings, second is the calibrated settings):

 

 

 

Again, the factory default settings produced significantly worse results than the calibrated settings.

 

So, in summary, the measurements indicate that the calibrated settings yield more accurate results.  So the real question is, does "accurate" translate into more pleasing picture quality?  It depends on who is watching, I suspect.

 

Questions and comments welcome.

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post #4864 of 11901 Old 01-18-2014, 07:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Geoff D View Post

Jerry, do you recall our previous discussions about gamma, specially the differences between 2.2 and 2.4? Well, after giving my 55X9 another calibration I decided to go back to 2.2. One of the reasons is that the bleeding of the side-lighting became much more obvious when the picture came out of black more slowly at 2.4. It's always been there, but lately it's been very distracting on scenes with darker content and I started to think 'It wasn't that bad before, what have I changed?'; I was watching the screen for the backlight bleed rather than focusing on the actual movies. I recently rewatched the Dark Knight Trilogy, which is a true torture test for this sort of backlighting artefact!

So after another calibration (which incidentally revealed that the blue channel had drifted slightly, making my colour temp a little too high) I reverted back to 2.2 and upped the ambient light in the room when viewing movies, and the difference is significant. There's still a little bit of the bleeding backlight peeking through at the edges in dark scenes, but it's now a thin strip rather than thick bands at either side of the screen, and I'm still getting (what appears to be) lovely deep blacks.

I also noticed that the YCbCr/RGB Contrast ramps on Spears and Munsil 2nd ed. had some artefacts at a gamma of 2.4, particularly the blue channel which had noticeable streaking and clipping. Switching back to 2.2 on the fly (changing gamma from -2 to 0 in the TV settings) returned the blue ramp back to a smooth gradation. The clipping at 2.4 fell above the 16-235 range anyway, but it's best to have as few artefacts as possible in every step of the chain, no?

 

Geoff, I re-checked my display calibration this evening.  I must be getting better at the 2-point grayscale adjustments, because I was able to come up with two calibrations, one for gamma-2.4, and one for gamma=2.2, with exactly the same settings except for the gamma parameter (-2 for 2.4 and 0 for 2.2).  Both calibrations produced excellent results, shown here:

 

 

 

TBH, I am quite pleased with the results.  I have one calibration stored in Cinema1, and the other in Cinema2.  I can toggle back and forth to see which calibration I like better.  However, so far I haven't decided on one vs. the other.  2.2 is a bit brighter, but I can't perceive much difference in the details of dark scenes.

 

I have updated the downloadable calibration file linked in my signature.

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post #4865 of 11901 Old 01-19-2014, 06:59 AM
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Does anyone know how to reset Nexflix? My free subscription has ran out and now I want to log in under my fiance's Netflix account. However, when I click on the Netflix app, it defauls to my account and is now asking for payment info. There's no option to log in under any other account. Please help.
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post #4866 of 11901 Old 01-19-2014, 07:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Gillietalls View Post

Does anyone know how to reset Nexflix? My free subscription has ran out and now I want to log in under my fiance's Netflix account. However, when I click on the Netflix app, it defauls to my account and is now asking for payment info. There's no option to log in under any other account. Please help.

You can tab up to the line bar that includes "search" "kids" "menu" "exit" and just sign out. Sign back in using new account holder info and Netflix will remember your last log in.

Or you can (while on Netflix) use the remote and > Up, Up, Down, Down, Left, Right, Left, Right, Up, Up, Up, Up then deactivate.


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post #4867 of 11901 Old 01-19-2014, 09:36 AM
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X900A's picture $500 better than the X850A's?

I can't find out where it says it on paper, so I've been on a search for the ultimate X900A/X850A manufacturer specifications/cut sheet.

So far it appears for an extra $500 you get a panel with a glossy finish, passive 3D instead of active and 6 speakers with a combined 65W of power. I'm trying to find out if at least on paper if the X900A is actually better at displaying video than the X850A.

Does anyone reading this, maybe quovadis123?, happen to know of the availability of an absolute bible on Sony-sanctioned written product specifications, the last word on the X900A/X850A in particular, that includes all the minute details such as what type of panel surface/finish, matte vs. glossy, type of corning glass (by model), etc..?

Depending on where you go to obtain official Sony documents, there are some gaps. The Sony Consumer site's documentation (X850/X900) differs from Magnolia/Best Buy's documentation (X850/X900), which differs from Sony's documentation for dealers (X850/X900).

These are the only video quality capability differences between the available X900A and X850A specs:
X900A:
3D - Yes (Passive)
Simulated 3D - Yes
Backlight Off Mode - Yes
OptiContrast Panel - Yes (no other description of the panel's physical characteristics/construction)

X850A:
3D - Yes (Active)
Simulated 3D - Yes (2K only)
Backlight Off Mode (not listed, instead says "Power Saving Modes - Yes")
Deep Black Panel - Yes (no other description of the panel's physical characteristics/construction)

e
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post #4868 of 11901 Old 01-19-2014, 10:46 AM
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I did find this on Sony's UK website about OptiContrast and Deep Black panels.
http://www.sony.co.uk/hub/lcd-television/latest/article/id/1237479592800
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post #4869 of 11901 Old 01-19-2014, 11:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post

OK, I had some time to investigate the results of resetting everything to factory defaults, and here is what I found.  Just to make sure we are on the same page, I set the scene to "General" and chose "Standard" as the picture.  I reset everything to factory defaults, including the White Balance settings. 

I agree that the default/reset values they use for "general" are not good. I should have been clear that I was impressed with the default values of "cinema/cinema 1" adding only "black correct=hi". It's entirely possible that you're getting the right answer but I -think- I am because my S&M disk/player/eye/room/TV have some hidden setting on. I trust your data much more as it is a measurement of what's on the screen.

I only used the Spears and Museli (sic?) disc to tweak /hue and color (90/r1/52) to cinema/c1, but otherwise default. The reset values of contrast, sharpness, etc seemed to be best, according to S&M. This impressed me; usually default = screaming saturation and so on… I was also impressed by my 55" not moving the hue/color around (more than on notch) when I fiddle with backlight/contrast/etc.

I should use the S&M disc to tweak up my default general setting, but at this point I never use anything but cinema/cinema1 as it is now bright enough that I use it all the time; even for afternoon football and so on. It'd be interesting to see what adjustments the S&M disk indicates to General then compare to your more accurate testing. I do wish I had a PC and/or there was a Calman for apple; being a scientist I'd love to make some measurements rather than just adjustments.

Thanks for taking the time to run the calibration again!
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post #4870 of 11901 Old 01-19-2014, 12:33 PM
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It is not immediately clear whether factory defaults under "General" would be different than under "Cinema". I suspect there might be some differences, but since I use Cinema for my calibration, I am reluctant to reset it to factory defaults.

I think the exercise does show that factory defaults are somewhat different than the "accurate" settings, but, as I said, preference is what determines which mode is most pleasing. It is nice to see others experimenting with different settings.
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post #4871 of 11901 Old 01-19-2014, 06:01 PM
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Originally Posted by LeeSoFl View Post

You can tab up to the line bar that includes "search" "kids" "menu" "exit" and just sign out. Sign back in using new account holder info and Netflix will remember your last log in.

Or you can (while on Netflix) use the remote and > Up, Up, Down, Down, Left, Right, Left, Right, Up, Up, Up, Up then deactivate.


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Your suggestions are not going to work. Netflix is taking me straight to a screen where I can only enter in payment information to buy a service.
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post #4872 of 11901 Old 01-19-2014, 06:11 PM
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When the Netflix app launches, I end up on a line called "My List". If I touch the Up Arrow, I am presented with a Menu. Which consists of four options, Search, Kids, and the third option is View Account Information, or Sign Out. If I check this third option, "Sign Out" is an option at the bottom of the screen. Are you not seeing the same thing?
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post #4873 of 11901 Old 01-20-2014, 12:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post

It is not immediately clear whether factory defaults under "General" would be different than under "Cinema". I suspect there might be some differences, but since I use Cinema for my calibration, I am reluctant to reset it to factory defaults.

I think the exercise does show that factory defaults are somewhat different than the "accurate" settings, but, as I said, preference is what determines which mode is most pleasing. It is nice to see others experimenting with different settings.

There are huge differences, for example sports has lots of edge processing and so on. What surprised me was that Sony is changing them and that black corrector seems to be doing something potentially useful.

--- unrelated to thread--

Sadly the refs stole another game for Seahawks. I stopped watching the NBA after the refs rigged the NBA championship in the LA-Kings series 10 or 15 years ago.
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post #4874 of 11901 Old 01-20-2014, 01:51 AM
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Originally Posted by jjnbos View Post

There are huge differences, for example sports has lots of edge processing and so on. What surprised me was that Sony is changing them and that black corrector seems to be doing something potentially useful.

I tried out the black corrector some more yesterday. I watched the Riddick trilogy, another torture test for the sidelighting, and it didn't help much at all, even on high. Could just be that my set is a bit more prone to this issue, being a very early build (July last year). Anyhoo, I discovered what the black corrector actually does to the picture, having performed a calibration with it set to low. Basically it boosts the gamma in the darker areas of the image; when viewing the greyscale chart, 10%, 20% and 30% were raised to 2.3 while from 40% onwards it stayed flat at 2.2.

Interestingly, the tracking of the colour temperature @ 6500 (or thereabouts) stayed constant, and it even tightened up my primaries and secondaries by a fraction. Usually these sorts of adjustments tend to throw everything else out of whack, so I'm impressed that it's so restrained - well, on the low setting anyway.

But it's telling me that, in general, I could do with darkening my image just a little bit more to sweeten the colour response even further. I get 148 cd/m2 at 100% stimulus, whereas a lot of review sites tend to aim for 120 as a benchmark. Might as well try and tweak it some more. I'm currently off work with the flu, so it's not like I have anything better to do. biggrin.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post

Again, the factory default settings produced significantly worse results than the calibrated settings.

So, in summary, the measurements indicate that the calibrated settings yield more accurate results.  So the real question is, does "accurate" translate into more pleasing picture quality?  It depends on who is watching, I suspect.

Questions and comments welcome.

How's that old saying go? You can lead a horse to water.... wink.gif

Seriously though, people are free to set their TVs however they like. And after paying this amount of money for one, I'm sure that feeling is magnified tenfold for some folks. For me, the same is true but in terms of accuracy; having shelled out £3.5K, I want to make damned sure that the pictures I'm watching are as close to the industry defined standards as possible - and they are, because (backlighting niggles aside) my 55X9 is an outstanding TV.
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post #4875 of 11901 Old 01-20-2014, 03:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jjnbos View Post

--- unrelated to thread--

Sadly the refs stole another game for Seahawks. I stopped watching the NBA after the refs rigged the NBA championship in the LA-Kings series 10 or 15 years ago.

Not sure if the refs "steal" games, but the quality of the ref's in football has been horrific this year..its ruined many games for me too..
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post #4876 of 11901 Old 01-20-2014, 06:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post

When the Netflix app launches, I end up on a line called "My List". If I touch the Up Arrow, I am presented with a Menu. Which consists of four options, Search, Kids, and the third option is View Account Information, or Sign Out. If I check this third option, "Sign Out" is an option at the bottom of the screen. Are you not seeing the same thing?

No, sir. I'm going straight to a screen that says "Welcome back Gil," and the only option I have is to Restart my old account. No search, sign out, or any other option. Once I hit the Restart button, it takes me to a screen that says I'm not eligible for a free trial. It has by name and credit card info to the right and asks me to enter my security code then "Start Membership." I'm guessing I'll have to start the membership, then sign out, sign in with my fiance's account, then cancel my membership.

Just seem like a lot.
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post #4877 of 11901 Old 01-20-2014, 07:24 AM
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This might have been discussed already in this thread but I had one heck of a time trying to find it after searching tons of pages.

On the hdmi 2.0 update, did that update all hdmi ports or only just one? If anyone is playing ps4 with the new update can you play video games like madden and 2k15 in 2160 at 60 frames? Thank you
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post #4878 of 11901 Old 01-20-2014, 07:51 AM
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all HDMI ports were upgraded to 2.0.

I'm not sure, but I think that on PS4 the maximum resolution available for gaming at the moment is 1080p.. but maybe I'm wrong..

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post #4879 of 11901 Old 01-20-2014, 08:58 AM
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all HDMI ports were upgraded to 2.0.
I'm not sure, but I think that on PS4 the maximum resolution available for gaming at the moment is 1080p.. but maybe I'm wrong..

Thank you very much. Do you know why on the ps4 the maximum output is only 1080p? One other question as well. On my samsung I can watch satlilite in 1080i 60 frames. On the x9 will I be able to watch it 2160 60 frames? Much appreciated. Thanks
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post #4880 of 11901 Old 01-20-2014, 09:12 AM
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Thank you very much. Do you know why on the ps4 the maximum output is only 1080p? One other question as well. On my samsung I can watch satlilite in 1080i 60 frames. On the x9 will I be able to watch it 2160 60 frames? Much appreciated. Thanks

The PS4 as far as we know doesnt have the capability to do 4k gaming. It may in the future show 4k movies or pictures.
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post #4881 of 11901 Old 01-20-2014, 09:15 AM
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I have an interesting question here - with the upgrade that Sony applied to the X9, are we watching TV now at 2160p60 or 2160p30? I know the upgrade allows the tv to accept 2160p60 signals but will show it on the panel that way or scale down to 2160p30?
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post #4882 of 11901 Old 01-20-2014, 09:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkknightman View Post

Thank you very much. Do you know why on the ps4 the maximum output is only 1080p? One other question as well. On my samsung I can watch satlilite in 1080i 60 frames. On the x9 will I be able to watch it 2160 60 frames? Much appreciated. Thanks

Because at the moment there aren't games that supports that resolution.. And i don't know when, and if, we'll see games in 4k, or only in 2k.. It will be very, very dufficult with this generation of consoles.. At the moment, count only on 1080p at 60 fps..

For satellite, if its maximum output is 1080i there's nothing to do.. Btw, the upscaling system on this set is amazing, and any full hd signal or source looks goergeus..
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post #4883 of 11901 Old 01-20-2014, 09:20 AM
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Quote:
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The PS4 as far as we know doesnt have the capability to do 4k gaming. It may in the future show 4k movies or pictures.
mmh.. I know something different.. Ps4 will be able to support 4k gaming, but not for movies and pictures.. Unlike the xbox one, that will play 4k media contents but not games..
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post #4884 of 11901 Old 01-20-2014, 09:32 AM
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T
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Because at the moment there aren't games that supports that resolution.. And i don't know when, and if, we'll see games in 4k, or only in 2k.. It will be very, very dufficult with this generation of consoles.. At the moment, count only on 1080p at 60 fps..

For satellite, if its maximum output is 1080i there's nothing to do.. Btw, the upscaling system on this set is amazing, and any full hd signal or source looks goergeus..

Thank you. But doesn't the tv upscale the games?
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post #4885 of 11901 Old 01-20-2014, 09:32 AM
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Ps4 will be able to support 4k gaming, but not for movies and pictures.. Unlike the xbox one, that will play 4k media contents but not games..

The PS4 and Xbox One have almost identical CPU and GPUs; neither one even has an HDMI 2.0 port (which would be required for 2160p @60fps) - at this point, neither one in its current form can support 4k gaming. (Xbox One can barely handle over 720p gaming at decent frame rates; PS4 is hit/miss on 1080p gaming at high frame rates) This for me was quite a major disappointment with this generation. Its essentially obsolete the moment it was released - neither Sony nor Microsoft could do much to get to 4k. The GPU to handle that would have pushed the cost of the units way over $1k. The only thing I can hope is that Sony soon enables 4K streaming service on the PS4 - its the main reason I have one. I've not heard any specific 4k plans for Xbox One, only that it can do 4k video - whatever that means.
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post #4886 of 11901 Old 01-20-2014, 09:33 AM
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For satellite, if its maximum output is 1080i there's nothing to do.. Btw, the upscaling system on this set is amazing, and any full hd signal or source looks goergeus..

Thank you good to hear. But is it 30 frames the tv gives or 60 frames for satellite
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post #4887 of 11901 Old 01-20-2014, 09:35 AM
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T
Thank you. But doesn't the tv upscale the games?

Yes the TV upscales - but its not going to add resolution detail where there was not any before. Just like watching upscaled 1080i/p content. Looks great, colors are amazing - but its not 4k.
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post #4888 of 11901 Old 01-20-2014, 09:37 AM
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I have a question for all owners of the X9? R U satisfied with the brightness of the picture ? I was watching an interview with a Sony Rep at CES 2014 and he said one of the complaints they get of the X9 is that the picture is not bright enough. He said they corrected that with the new sets coming out with the feature " Dynamic Range Pro" on the X950B and "Dynamic Range" on the 900B series. Any comments will be appreciated. I watched the game on Saturday nite on the Sammy 65f9000. The picture was super bright and crystal clear.
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post #4889 of 11901 Old 01-20-2014, 09:37 AM
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Originally Posted by tdrozdowski View Post

The PS4 and Xbox One have almost identical CPU and GPUs; neither one even has an HDMI 2.0 port (which would be required for 2160p @60fps) - at this point, neither one in its current form can support 4k gaming. (Xbox One can barely handle over 720p gaming at decent frame rates; PS4 is hit/miss on 1080p gaming at high frame rates) This for me was quite a major disappointment with this generation. Its essentially obsolete the moment it was released - neither Sony nor Microsoft could do much to get to 4k. The GPU to handle that would have pushed the cost of the units way over $1k. The only thing I can hope is that Sony soon enables 4K streaming service on the PS4 - its the main reason I have one. I've not heard any specific 4k plans for Xbox One, only that it can do 4k video - whatever that means.

AGREED - If you want 4k gaming, I would wait for the PS5 biggrin.gif
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post #4890 of 11901 Old 01-20-2014, 09:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Darkknightman View Post

T
Thank you. But doesn't the tv upscale the games?
Yes, but the native resolution is always the same..
Quote:
Originally Posted by tdrozdowski View Post

The PS4 and Xbox One have almost identical CPU and GPUs; neither one even has an HDMI 2.0 port (which would be required for 2160p @60fps) - at this point, neither one in its current form can support 4k gaming. (Xbox One can barely handle over 720p gaming at decent frame rates; PS4 is hit/miss on 1080p gaming at high frame rates) This for me was quite a major disappointment with this generation. Its essentially obsolete the moment it was released - neither Sony nor Microsoft could do much to get to 4k. The GPU to handle that would have pushed the cost of the units way over $1k. The only thing I can hope is that Sony soon enables 4K streaming service on the PS4 - its the main reason I have one. I've not heard any specific 4k plans for Xbox One, only that it can do 4k video - whatever that means.
Look, Sony and Microsoft were clear about that: on Ps4 we will see 4k games, but it will can't be a 4k media player.. The opposite on xbox one, where 4k gaming will be impossible but it will play 4k media contents.. And the limit of 720p is a urban legend.. Look at the resolution of titanfall or forza motorsport..
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Sony Xbr 65x900a 65 Inch 1080p 120hz 3d Led 4k Ultra Hdtv , Sony Xbr 55x900a 55 Inch 4k Ultra Hd 3d Led Tv
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