Official Sony [X9] XBR-55X900A / XBR-65X900A Owner's Thread - Page 175 - AVS Forum
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post #5221 of 12181 Old 02-06-2014, 09:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ace of Space View Post

I'm posting in this thread even though I own a 65X850A, I feel I'd get more responses here. My Comcast cable box is capable of outputting 1080p 60fps, even though the majority of my Comcast HD channels are 1080i 30fps native. I'd like opinions as to which output would be better to feed our Sony 4k TV's. Let the cable box do the deinterlacing or let the TV do it? I've tried both ways and can't really notice a difference. Some of my terminology might not be correct, I'm not as scientific as most of you guys are. Any opinions are welcome. Cheers.

Hi AoS,

I would think if you're not seeing a difference, either one would be satisfactory. Your TV is going to handle the upscaling anyway, I don't think the cable box would have that feature.

Which Comcast provided box do you have? The interesting thing I see on my Comcast On-Demand is a tab for "1080p programs," and when you go to that choice with On-Demand, it has a free preview, which is not 1080p. In fact it is a postage stamp size image. Thought that was odd.

By the way this is the right thread for your 4K television type questions. The topic title was created when there was only a 900 series.


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post #5222 of 12181 Old 02-06-2014, 09:52 AM
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I have a Motorola MOR200BNR any room DVR, also called a DCX3501M I believe. I'm asking because on some channels I'm getting slight motion blur. I've tried all the motionflow settings and still get motion blur on occasion. I find that "smooth" creates the most soap opera effect(yuck!), but it does make the motion a little smoother. I'm thinking of sticking with 1080i because it would be one less proccess to the signal before it reaches the TV, since 1080i is native for most channels. Just wondering if my cable box output would have anything to do with motion blur. I've only had the TV since Saturday, so I'm still messing with the settings.

Sometimes I think my brain has a mind of its own.
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post #5223 of 12181 Old 02-06-2014, 02:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ace of Space View Post

I have a Motorola MOR200BNR any room DVR, also called a DCX3501M I believe. I'm asking because on some channels I'm getting slight motion blur. I've tried all the motionflow settings and still get motion blur on occasion. I find that "smooth" creates the most soap opera effect(yuck!), but it does make the motion a little smoother. I'm thinking of sticking with 1080i because it would be one less proccess to the signal before it reaches the TV, since 1080i is native for most channels. Just wondering if my cable box output would have anything to do with motion blur. I've only had the TV since Saturday, so I'm still messing with the settings.

I always feel like any motion blur is due to the frame rate of the source. Playing Xbox One is very smooth on games that get close to 60fps.

Try giving AustinJerry's settings a try: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/78476446/XBR-X900%20Settings_2014-2-4.pdf
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post #5224 of 12181 Old 02-06-2014, 02:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Geoff D View Post


The 3D, even at 'only' 540p, is staggeringly good and was another reason why I bought it. Third reason is the amazing sound, which seems to be getting even better as the set ages and the speakers 'wear in'.
 

I'm not sure if my question is dumb or not - I'm new here.

 

Sony has announced a new firmware update for the XBR-55X900A that purports to bring it up to the HDMI 2.0 data rate, allowing 60fps at 4K, among other things.  It occurs to me that the earlier HDMI 1.4 data rate limitation may be one reason for the 540p 3D performance reported before late December.  This update (PKG-4-001AAA in late December and at least two additional updates subsequently) may be necessary (but sufficient??) to permit 1080p 3D performance on the 55' model as well as the 65' model.

 

But there is the FPR question as well.  I can't find any reliable information on the 55" model's FPR specification; just rumors, assumptions and hearsay, but the innuendo doesn't look good for my new XBR-55X900A, on its way as I type.  I really waited for passive 1080p 3D capability and it is ironic if my long-delayed purchase can't do the job.

 

Is there any reliable technical information that I can review about the alleged differences in FPR resolution between the 55" and 65" models?  Even if there are dual pixel rows under each element, it seems to me that FPR can be adapted to provide 1080p 3D in 4K displays by masking dual pixel rows (or something-- like US2013/0335304A).  So the fact that earlier firmware provided only 540p 3D images (per CU testing, for example) - to me - suggests that the old HDMI 1.4 data rate limit may be the culprit at least in part.  

 

I can't tie down a credible story about the actual FPR geometry or capability of the XBR-55X900A with my web searching so far.

 

Any advice?

 

Thanks.

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post #5225 of 12181 Old 02-06-2014, 03:49 PM
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Alls I know is, the 55" cannot display full 1080p to each eye in 3D mode. Not then, and not now with the latest firmware. This I have tested for myself. And, in my opinion, it is a limitation of this set as constructed, and has nothing to do with HDMI bandwidth whatoever, so no amount of firmware updates could enable 1080p 3D.

The FPR chosen for this set allows for a better (though still not great) vertical viewing angle, albeit at the expense of losing half the resolution and creating a visible line structure on the screen. The 65" does do 1080p 3D and doesn't have the line structure, but the 3D viewing angle is more restricted.
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post #5226 of 12181 Old 02-06-2014, 03:54 PM
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Has anyone got a Harmony Touch working properly with any HDMI CEC devices connected to the 900A? I just bought a touch - and it chooses InputHDMI# and that doesn't seem to turn on the connected CEC devices. However when I choose the device in the Device list (they are listed in slot 1 and 2) - with either a Sony remote, or the Harmony - they turn on. I'm looking at the Harmony settings and I see no obvious way to program this guy to choose the proper device from the list. Are there discrete IR codes for these? Anyone have success?
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post #5227 of 12181 Old 02-06-2014, 11:33 PM
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Last update PKG 4.201 gave me temporary loss of network! After 15 min. it worked again! Strange!

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post #5228 of 12181 Old 02-06-2014, 11:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LeeSoFl View Post

*** FUTURE-PROOF UPDATE ***

I spoke with a senior Sony representative from their New York headquarters yesterday afternoon.

We discussed where "we" first-adopters will land, and how first generation televisions will be part of the forward motion of 4K.

While no specific details were released or how the course was going to unfold, I was assured and assured again that our 900A and 850A models are included in technology changes ahead.

Details from Sony are coming soon, but they are fully aware of "we" 4K customers and "our" expectations to be included in advances, and that remains paramount.


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Sounds great! Thanks!

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post #5229 of 12181 Old 02-06-2014, 11:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jwardjward View Post

I'm not sure if my question is dumb or not - I'm new here.

The only stupid question is the one you are afraid to ask!

The problem with only getting 540p 3D on the 55" is caused by manufacturing details. Polarizer Optics in particular. IF the 65" can do full 1080p 3d, it can't be a HDMI, or frame rate problem.

I've forgotten where, but there was a long and seemingly authoritative discussion about this, in fact someone posted on this thread some pictures, and a link to a YouTube demo with a 55 and 65 side by side, closeups of screen, the whole 9 yards.

And in a nut shell the physical size of the pixels on the 55" is just a little too small. So the polarizer on the screen can't be made at the full resolution.

Sony had to use some odd interlace, 3D only, maybe something like 4:2 cadence on every 6 lines instead of 1:1 or even 2:2; or something like that. This makes it look even worse as the lines are not evenly sized and spaced. Or something like that.

But it's not a frame rate or HDMI issue.
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post #5230 of 12181 Old 02-06-2014, 11:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ace of Space View Post

My Comcast cable box is capable of outputting 1080p 60fps, even though the majority of my Comcast HD channels are 1080i 30fps native. I'd like opinions as to which output would be better to feed our Sony 4k TV's. Let the cable box do the deinterlacing or let the TV do it?

Basically, what Lee said.

There was a lot of discussion about this earlier, and I think the upshot is that a $30 cable box couldn't possibly scale video as well as what these $5k TV's do. And As someone pointed out, all LED TV's have to convert their input ("scale") to their native resolution, and on this set they get that right.

Therefore, if you can, select "native" as your output format.

DirecTV has a setting called "format" or "resolution" or something along those lines. As I recall it's on two menus: one sets the allowed output formats and the other selects native; or something like that. When you select native, and 480p is an allowed output, if the show is 480p that's what the "cable box" puts out. "" with 720p, 1080i, 1080p, whatever.

The TV then converts whatever it gets to it's 2180p resolution. And it does a strikingly good job.

There was some discussion about the Directv box looks better if scales 720p to 1080, but our sets are 2160 which is an exact multiple of 720, so I'd expect native is again the best, but I see no differce on the lousy signal that the evil do-ers at FOX put out. And BTW, on Directv box I think/know the output doesn't change until you change the channel. Which makes it even harder to detect a difference.
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post #5231 of 12181 Old 02-07-2014, 04:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by damsesenior View Post

Last update PKG 4.201 gave me temporary loss of network! After 15 min. it worked again! Strange!

After the Monday update, I didn't check applications, but I do do a "network update" and it ran for two minutes and completed.

I did see that I had to logon again to Netflix and Hulu.
_______________

Odd side point I noticed last night - I went to regular TV application "SEN Video Unlimited." They have coming attractions "Godzilla" etc and trailers. I saw "Man of Steel" had a 10 minute free preview, so I played it.

The image was letterboxed, which I expected but aside from the black lb bars, there were thin gray lines that ran along the entire top and bottom of the tv screen. I wanted to know if those thin gray bars would be there had I decided to purchase the film?

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post #5232 of 12181 Old 02-07-2014, 05:53 AM
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OK, this is the third firmware update in a row that I've installed with no clue whatsoever about what it does. It's getting frustrating.

Sony absolutely HAS to keep a changelog of sorts for all the updates it pushes for this or any other TV. Even if all an update does it fix bugs or address compatibility issues or whatever, the briefest of descriptions would do. It's not that difficult a thing to provide.

I understand why a manufacturer would not want to look like they do regular bug fixing, but hey. It might as well add features or enable features that one might be interested at (e.g. play YouTube clips at 4K), which one can't find out about unless he/she explores ALL the functions and settings after the update. And... come on. Nobody does that.

Bottom line: it's just not right installing an update "blindly", without having the faintest idea of what it does or doesn't. See to it, Sony!
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post #5233 of 12181 Old 02-07-2014, 06:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jjnbos View Post



There was a lot of discussion about this earlier, and I think the upshot is that a $30 cable box couldn't possibly scale video as well as what these $5k TV's do. And As someone pointed out, all LED TV's have to convert their input ("scale") to their native resolution, and on this set they get that right.

I agree that the Bravia scaler does an excellent job. But the question of where to up-scale gets a bit more complicated when there is an AVR in the signal chain. Like you recommend, I output my DirectTV signals in native mode, but I prefer to up-convert everything to 1080p in my Denon 4520 before passing it to the Sony. I also recall an opinion expressed earlier in this thread that the Bravia scaler does its best job with a 1080p signal, so this is the configuration I have been running ever since. TBH, after experimenting with the options of where to up-scale, it is difficult to see a difference in any of the choices.
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post #5234 of 12181 Old 02-07-2014, 06:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Farkonas View Post

OK, this is the third firmware update in a row that I've installed with no clue whatsoever about what it does. It's getting frustrating.

Update info generally showed up here

http://esupport.sony.com/US/p/model-home.pl?mdl=XBR65X900A&LOC=3#/downloadTab

two weeks later.

It hasn't been updated since Dec 19th and there were two 4.101 and 4.201 that have not been shown yet.



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post #5235 of 12181 Old 02-07-2014, 06:37 AM
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Yes, I know - my point exactly. I own the European 65 inch model and the delay of the relevant announcement in the UK site is even longer than two weeks.

It shouldn't even be this way, Sony publishing changelogs on the Web I mean. They could just include a brief text on the screen that follows the update checking on the TV itself. They do it on PS3, PS4 and PS Vita, on several BD-players as well, so why not on Bravias? :-)
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post #5236 of 12181 Old 02-07-2014, 07:53 AM
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Could someone please shed some light as to why my TV doesn't show the SuperHD option? My TV is hard wired to my router. I just find it strange because my two WD Plays are wireless connected on different TV's and they both play movies in SuperHD. Please advise.
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post #5237 of 12181 Old 02-07-2014, 07:58 AM
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My understanding is that Netflix has dropped the "SuperHD" description because of concerns that it will create confusion when their 4K streaming initiative gets off the ground later this year. So, as long as you see "HD", and are receiving a 5800kbs stream, you are getting the highest quality.

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post #5238 of 12181 Old 02-07-2014, 08:32 AM
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Samsung will start offering its European customers a UHD Starter Kit with 50 movies in 4K resolution this March.

http://www.flatpanelshd.com/news.php?subaction=showfull&id=1391601422&rss

Guess that is Samsungs answer to the Sony X1 for our European cousins.
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post #5239 of 12181 Old 02-07-2014, 09:18 AM
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I still see that option. My provider is Time Warner Cable NYC.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Gillietalls View Post

Could someone please shed some light as to why my TV doesn't show the SuperHD option? My TV is hard wired to my router. I just find it strange because my two WD Plays are wireless connected on different TV's and they both play movies in SuperHD. Please advise.
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post #5240 of 12181 Old 02-07-2014, 10:23 AM
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Thought I'd join the conversion. Just traded out my 55HX950 for the 55X900a. My 950 had developed multiple lines horizontally across the screen so they upgraded me to the x900a. My thoughts so far:

1. Black level no where near the 950. That was to be expected due to change in technology but still a little disappointing.
2. 950 had multiple DSE seen with light backgrounds. None seen on the x900
3. Small area of flash lighting/hot spot on the left side of screen. Nearly gone with proper adjustments but still slightly visible on dark scenes and credits for example. I think it might be getting better with time used.

My question for everyone is about periodic judder I see on certain Directv stations. I searched the forum and saw a few comments on it. I can be watching say TBS, and the programming with have a subtle judder every 5-10 secs. But when it goes to commercial, the commercial is fine. The next program on the same station may be completely fine. No problem with blu-Ray. Is this the upconversion to 4k by the tv? Is there anything I can do to improve this? My hx950 never did this.
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post #5241 of 12181 Old 02-07-2014, 12:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post

I agree that the Bravia scaler does an excellent job. But the question of where to up-scale gets a bit more complicated when there is an AVR in the signal chain. Like you recommend, I output my DirectTV signals in native mode, but I prefer to up-convert everything to 1080p in my Denon 4520 before passing it to the Sony. I also recall an opinion expressed earlier in this thread that the Bravia scaler does its best job with a 1080p signal, so this is the configuration I have been running ever since. TBH, after experimenting with the options of where to up-scale, it is difficult to see a difference in any of the choices.

I find the best results if I put my Directv 1080p upconverted source through my AVR to the TV as well. This is odd- because I have a darblet in the chain and darbee claims that a native source is better for its processing. Still I stand by my impressions.

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post #5242 of 12181 Old 02-07-2014, 12:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dreaux View Post

Samsung will start offering its European customers a UHD Starter Kit with 50 movies in 4K resolution this March.

http://www.flatpanelshd.com/news.php?subaction=showfull&id=1391601422&rss

Guess that is Samsungs answer to the Sony X1 for our European cousins.

It really doesn't look good for Sony to be outdone by Samsung yet again, because there's STILL no sign of any such 4K player from Sony for the European market. To add insult to injury, we Sony 4K owners probably won't be able to use the Samsung system anyway, seeing as it's essentially a hard drive that the TV plays files off of, instead of being a self-contained player. Even if our 2013 sets had HEVC - the 2014 models will, of course - I bet Samsung will use a proprietary container so that it can't be recognised on other manufacturer's gear.

Still, I'm also teensy bit sceptical, because the two movies listed in that news article (Life of Pi and Star Trek Into Darkness) were both finished at 2K...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tusk View Post

Thought I'd join the conversion. Just traded out my 55HX950 for the 55X900a. My 950 had developed multiple lines horizontally across the screen so they upgraded me to the x900a. My thoughts so far:

1. Black level no where near the 950. That was to be expected due to change in technology but still a little disappointing.
2. 950 had multiple DSE seen with light backgrounds. None seen on the x900
3. Small area of flash lighting/hot spot on the left side of screen. Nearly gone with proper adjustments but still slightly visible on dark scenes and credits for example. I think it might be getting better with time used.

My experience with the 55" is very similar, though I had a 55HX8 TV prior to the 55X9 and I think the blacks are rather good in comparison to that one. But the HX8 had a large patch of DSE, of which I can honestly see none on the X9. I also have a small 'hot spot' on the left side of the screen.
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post #5243 of 12181 Old 02-07-2014, 01:56 PM
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I also have a small 'hot spot' on the left side of the screen.

Yep, same here.
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post #5244 of 12181 Old 02-07-2014, 02:21 PM
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Re: the firmware. The only thing that I've noticed with the new update is the aforementioned warning of flicker when engaging Impulse, plus something also comes up when you land on the Mastered in 4K setting: it now says "Optimises picture quality for Blu-ray Discs mastered in 4K. Applies to 1080/24p signals only". I guess they added that disclaimer because too many people were wondering why they couldn't use the Mi4K setting when playing anything other than 1080p24 Blu-ray.

It's bollocks about the 'Blu-ray Discs mastered in 4K' bit though. Unless Mi4K is set to on it won't pass every last pixel of a 1080p24 signal, no matter what source it was mastered from. That was a sneaky move from Sony to make people think that it was somehow doing some voodoo magic with those Mi4K discs.
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post #5245 of 12181 Old 02-07-2014, 02:44 PM
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Quote:
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My understanding is that Netflix has dropped the "SuperHD" description because of concerns that it will create confusion when their 4K streaming initiative gets off the ground later this year. So, as long as you see "HD", and are receiving a 5800kbs stream, you are getting the highest quality.

Well, regardless of what I said earlier, I still see "SuperHD". I know I read somewhere that Netflix plans to do away with this description, perhaps in the near future.

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post #5246 of 12181 Old 02-07-2014, 04:08 PM
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Well, regardless of what I said earlier, I still see "SuperHD". I know I read somewhere that Netflix plans to do away with this description, perhaps in the near future.

I'm no longer seeing it on the Netflix client that comes with the TV. I haven't looked at the Apple TV client though...
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post #5247 of 12181 Old 02-07-2014, 05:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Geoff D View Post

Indeed. Early on I actually assumed that the PS4 would be ready for 4K Unlimited out of the box, but then Sony's media player changed all that. Why on EARTH would they release a console that does what the FMP-X1 does for half the cost? Makes no sense. Heck, Sony could've also installed it inside the next gen 4K sets (you provide your own hard drive, natch) but again, why do that when you've got a media player to shill?

The same applied when the PS3 was launched. Sony's only Blu-ray player at the time was over $1000, but for $499/$500 you could buy the 20GB/60GB PS3. And the PS3 held the promise of network access, upgradability to BD-Java, etc., which the more expensive standalone player never would be capable of. And it only took Sony about 6 months to release a conventional remote for Blu-ray playback. I still use my PS3 as my only Blu-ray player to this day.

So, if Sony wants to push 4K, the PS4 (like BD was with the PS3, and DVD as with the PS2), is an ideal vehicle to do it.
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post #5248 of 12181 Old 02-08-2014, 01:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bsd107 View Post

The same applied when the PS3 was launched. Sony's only Blu-ray player at the time was over $1000, but for $499/$500 you could buy the 20GB/60GB PS3. And the PS3 held the promise of network access, upgradability to BD-Java, etc., which the more expensive standalone player never would be capable of. And it only took Sony about 6 months to release a conventional remote for Blu-ray playback. I still use my PS3 as my only Blu-ray player to this day.

So, if Sony wants to push 4K, the PS4 (like BD was with the PS3, and DVD as with the PS2), is an ideal vehicle to do it.

Well, yeah! I didn't say that it wasn't an ideal vehicle for 4K, I said that they won't do it because they've got other 4K players to shill. At this point in time there's one crucial difference than with PS3 and BD: back then, I could've gone out and bought another brand of player if I wanted to, i.e. Sony weren't just undercutting themselves with the PS3, they were undercutting everyone. But as long as there's no competing 4K device, they'll keep 4K Unlimited firmly in the hands of their media player, and nothing else.
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post #5249 of 12181 Old 02-08-2014, 11:00 AM
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Latest firmware release improvements from Sony's website, dated 2-7-14:

Sony has designed the BRAVIA® Televisions software update process to be customer friendly. This software update (version PKG4.201AAA) provides the following benefits:
Improvements over version PKG4.001AAA:
•Improved performance and stability of the Internet features
•Improves the login function for the Skype® online calling service

Benefits provided by previous updates and included in version PKG4.201AAA:
•Provides HDMI® 2.0 compatibility (Applies to 4K models only)
Supports 4K 60p (3840X2160p (50/59.94/60Hz) YCbCr 4:2:0 8bit, 4096X2160p (50/59.94/60Hz) YCbCr 4:2:0 8bit)
•Improves stability of the sound output with a Blu-ray Disc™ player using an HDMI connection

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post #5250 of 12181 Old 02-08-2014, 01:04 PM
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Every day, I like this set's PQ more and more. That is all. wink.gif
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