Official Sony [X9] XBR-55X900A / XBR-65X900A Owner's Thread - Page 353 - AVS Forum
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post #10561 of 12181 Old 07-04-2014, 11:49 AM
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Happy Fourth All.

I noticed that if you want to get a more vibrant mode in the 65x900a you can use the game scene.. I found it by playing my hulu thru my ps4 to my tv. Tho when you try to select game using the sets built in HULU app, the game scene is greyed out

-Luis
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post #10562 of 12181 Old 07-04-2014, 12:45 PM
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Originally Posted by luism2008 View Post
Happy Fourth All.

I noticed that if you want to get a more vibrant mode in the 65x900a you can use the game scene.. I found it by playing my hulu thru my ps4 to my tv. Tho when you try to select game using the sets built in HULU app, the game scene is greyed out

-Luis
More Vibrant than Vibrant?

Wow, that's a whole lotta picture.
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post #10563 of 12181 Old 07-04-2014, 08:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Geoff D View Post
One of my favourite test images is the 0% Pluge on Spears and Munsil. The image dims down to black, absolute black, but there's still the 2% and 4% bars in the middle with no clouding whatsoever.
Geoff, I finally got around to popping in the S&M disk to look at the 0% Pluge test. On the positive side, my display shows no clouding or uniformity issues, and I agree with you, this is a good screen with which to assess the display's performance.

While looking at the test, I noticed several things related to the Brightness setting on the display. First of all, I noticed that the test is influenced by whether you have the Brightness slider control open on the screen. To be completely accurate, you should open the control, make your adjustment, and then close the control to see the effect on the test pattern. Is that your experience as well?

Second, I notice that as the brightness control is increased, two rectangles with a checkerboard pattern appear on the left and right sides. On my display, this checkerboard pattern is visible with a brightness setting of 50, but disappears when I reduce the setting to 49. I read the test instructions provided on the disk, but it is still unclear as to whether the correct brightness setting is when the checkerboard disappears, or when it just becomes visible. Do you have a recommendation?

I seem to recall that someone else mentioned that a Brightness setting of 49 produced slightly better black levels than a setting of 50.

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post #10564 of 12181 Old 07-04-2014, 10:08 PM
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4K Media Server

Guys,
I was all set to pick one up.....I actually have my 'guy' calling me on 7/11 to finalize my pre-order. Then I started to think about it...the only real use I'm going to have is Netflix 4K streaming. After reading impressions of current 4K offerings from the X1 I started to wonder if Netflix 4K streaming is worth $475. Then I started to read about smartphones that will be out later this year that support end to end 4K. You will be able to encode & decode 4K.....that's right....this year manufacturers are planning to put h.265 decoding into smartphones. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the only requirement for Netflix 4K is H.265 support? I'm past due for a phone upgrade. I was holding out to see what Nokia would bring in 2015, but if I can pick up a phone with H.265 support is it worth spending $475 just to watch a couple Netflix shows in 4K? Whats the consensus here? Is the player worth it?
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post #10565 of 12181 Old 07-05-2014, 02:01 AM
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Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
Geoff, I finally got around to popping in the S&M disk to look at the 0% Pluge test. On the positive side, my display shows no clouding or uniformity issues, and I agree with you, this is a good screen with which to assess the display's performance.

While looking at the test, I noticed several things related to the Brightness setting on the display. First of all, I noticed that the test is influenced by whether you have the Brightness slider control open on the screen. To be completely accurate, you should open the control, make your adjustment, and then close the control to see the effect on the test pattern. Is that your experience as well?

Second, I notice that as the brightness control is increased, two rectangles with a checkerboard pattern appear on the left and right sides. On my display, this checkerboard pattern is visible with a brightness setting of 50, but disappears when I reduce the setting to 49. I read the test instructions provided on the disk, but it is still unclear as to whether the correct brightness setting is when the checkerboard disappears, or when it just becomes visible. Do you have a recommendation?

I seem to recall that someone else mentioned that a Brightness setting of 49 produced slightly better black levels than a setting of 50.
The difference between 49 and 50 is for the 55 displays only. Was that way for my 55 but not for my 65. The person who said that first also had the 65.

I noticed that the brightness controls or anything on the screen influences the setting a few days back my accident. The correct setting is when the pattern is just visible if you don't want fine details to be gone. Hope I'm right.
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post #10566 of 12181 Old 07-05-2014, 03:57 AM
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Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
Geoff, I finally got around to popping in the S&M disk to look at the 0% Pluge test. On the positive side, my display shows no clouding or uniformity issues, and I agree with you, this is a good screen with which to assess the display's performance.

While looking at the test, I noticed several things related to the Brightness setting on the display. First of all, I noticed that the test is influenced by whether you have the Brightness slider control open on the screen. To be completely accurate, you should open the control, make your adjustment, and then close the control to see the effect on the test pattern. Is that your experience as well?

Second, I notice that as the brightness control is increased, two rectangles with a checkerboard pattern appear on the left and right sides. On my display, this checkerboard pattern is visible with a brightness setting of 50, but disappears when I reduce the setting to 49. I read the test instructions provided on the disk, but it is still unclear as to whether the correct brightness setting is when the checkerboard disappears, or when it just becomes visible. Do you have a recommendation?

I seem to recall that someone else mentioned that a Brightness setting of 49 produced slightly better black levels than a setting of 50.
First point: yes, if you have a menu slider on-screen when using the darker test patterns they will appear brighter, because the dynamic backlighting is doing its job by illuminating the slider. So make your adjustment, turn your menu off, and you'll see it dim right down as it should.

Second: the black squares in the background are set at 16 and 17 respectively, i.e. the darkest square is at the very bottom of the 16-235 video range. If you're seeing the lighter square, that means that the display isn't clipping the next level up from video black, so you're seeing every bit of shadow detail possible.

But the 2% and 4% bars will remain on screen at either 49 or 50 brightness, so you're only losing 1% of black performance @ 49. When I set my 55" to 49 brightness on the 0% pluge, if I look closely I can still *just* make out the two sets of squares, so I've been been watching movies @ 49 and they look great.

One other thing to consider is the Smooth Gradation, because this will clip the 16/17 range too. Set brightness to 50 then turn the SG from off to low, and the processing smooshes together the squares. I always used it to combat banding, but the encoding's getting so bad on Blu-rays (UK ones anyway) that it doesn't make a difference, and the good encodes don't need it anyway.
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post #10567 of 12181 Old 07-05-2014, 05:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Topless Stang View Post
Guys,
I was all set to pick one up.....I actually have my 'guy' calling me on 7/11 to finalize my pre-order. Then I started to think about it...the only real use I'm going to have is Netflix 4K streaming. After reading impressions of current 4K offerings from the X1 I started to wonder if Netflix 4K streaming is worth $475. Then I started to read about smartphones that will be out later this year that support end to end 4K. You will be able to encode & decode 4K.....that's right....this year manufacturers are planning to put h.265 decoding into smartphones. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the only requirement for Netflix 4K is H.265 support? I'm past due for a phone upgrade. I was holding out to see what Nokia would bring in 2015, but if I can pick up a phone with H.265 support is it worth spending $475 just to watch a couple Netflix shows in 4K? Whats the consensus here? Is the player worth it?
I read the smartphone article this week too. It is good news since every phone will copy off of it and 4k options everywhere are what we need to push the adoption rate.
I don't believe those phones will work wirelessly with our TVs since they are using a new wireless freq WiGig but plugging the phone into the TV may be an option to stream.

Personally, i am waiting till year end to see what exists and then get a media player - not committed to Sony's at all yet.
I read remarks from people that are streaming 4k that say it looks worse than 1080p sometimes, and i imagine if your ISP can't keep up, the signal degrades pretty quickly.

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post #10568 of 12181 Old 07-05-2014, 05:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Geoff D View Post
First point: yes, if you have a menu slider on-screen when using the darker test patterns they will appear brighter, because the dynamic backlighting is doing its job by illuminating the slider. So make your adjustment, turn your menu off, and you'll see it dim right down as it should.

Second: the black squares in the background are set at 16 and 17 respectively, i.e. the darkest square is at the very bottom of the 16-235 video range. If you're seeing the lighter square, that means that the display isn't clipping the next level up from video black, so you're seeing every bit of shadow detail possible.

But the 2% and 4% bars will remain on screen at either 49 or 50 brightness, so you're only losing 1% of black performance @ 49. When I set my 55" to 49 brightness on the 0% pluge, if I look closely I can still *just* make out the two sets of squares, so I've been been watching movies @ 49 and they look great.

One other thing to consider is the Smooth Gradation, because this will clip the 16/17 range too. Set brightness to 50 then turn the SG from off to low, and the processing smooshes together the squares. I always used it to combat banding, but the encoding's getting so bad on Blu-rays (UK ones anyway) that it doesn't make a difference, and the good encodes don't need it anyway.
I just bumped my TV brightness down from 50 to 49.
Thanks Geoff
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post #10569 of 12181 Old 07-05-2014, 06:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Mattopotamus View Post
As long as their are new buyers it will continue haha. Next year it will be what the B model lacks and so on. We are all early adopters and the future of 4k standards is very unconfirmed. As long as you can view the content, which we can, we should all be good for some years.

I am actually more peeved that the wireless sub is not compatable. It should be a simple software update b.c the hardware is all in place.
I got my 65 on sept 1st of last year - so i am not a New buyer - and my panel is near perfect so I did not have to play the swap game like others.

The sub doesn't work cause you are an early adopter
Your words not mine
At least sony didn't sell the 900a with the wireless sub as a feature.

Corporations need to begin taking action for their marketing statements. False advertising is illegal.
I am done talking about this -
We can agree to disagree

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post #10570 of 12181 Old 07-05-2014, 08:01 AM
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I'm not certain that it's as simple as a software update to get the wireless sub working on the A series. Sony must have built a crossover into the speaker layout on the B series which splits off the specific low frequencies, and it's then sent to the sub via the dongle which means that the audio circuitry must also be integrated into some sort of digital converter which squirts it through the USB for the dongle to transmit.

If the A doesn't have the crossover output physically wired into the USB (to put it simply), then there's no way of using the new sub, no matter how much firmware you throw at it.

Still, for all of the undoubted improvements and lower price and more offers etc of the B series, I wouldn't trade my A series for anything right now because of the sublime 3D performance. Anything that says it's active 3D can go **** itself.
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post #10571 of 12181 Old 07-05-2014, 08:10 AM
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I'm not certain that it's as simple as a software update to get the wireless sub working on the A series. Sony must have built a crossover into the speaker layout on the B series which splits off the specific low frequencies, and it's then sent to the sub via the dongle which means that the audio circuitry must also be integrated into some sort of digital converter which squirts it through the USB.

If the A doesn't have the crossover output physically wired into the USB (to put it simply), then there's no way of using the new sub, no matter how much firmware you throw at it.

Still, for all of the undoubted improvements and lower price and more offers etc of the B series, I wouldn't trade my A series for anything right now because of the sublime 3D performance. Anything that says it's active 3D can go **** itself.
The 79 b is passive - should have really been its own model number - in my opinion - since its different than the 55b and 65b
Cant wait for a review of that one - especially the 3D review
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post #10572 of 12181 Old 07-05-2014, 08:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Geoff D View Post
I'm not certain that it's as simple as a software update to get the wireless sub working on the A series. Sony must have built a crossover into the speaker layout on the B series which splits off the specific low frequencies, and it's then sent to the sub via the dongle which means that the audio circuitry must also be integrated into some sort of digital converter which squirts it through the USB.

If the A doesn't have the crossover output physically wired into the USB (to put it simply), then there's no way of using the new sub, no matter how much firmware you throw at it.
Yeah crossover circuitry or no dice I'm thinking...

As for the 49 brightness - I can go up to 51 until the backlighting ticks up with an element on the middle of the screen at 52. But that's most likely because I dial back the white balance across the board to accomodate using Warm1, which affects the contrast which in turn affects the brightness. But with Local dimming I don't know if those older calibration truths apply here.

In any case I use 48 because that's what my directv feed demands since some movie channels exhibit compression artifacts any higher and then I have to bump up the Oppo BD brightness one tick. None of this is can be an exact science with so many source signals. I have an AVR that I can fiddle with if I need to for specific games on 360 or Ps4. Usually brightness if anything.
But across the board I keep the same settings on the TV.
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post #10573 of 12181 Old 07-05-2014, 08:29 AM
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Yeah crossover circuitry or no dice I'm thinking...

As for the 49 brightness - I can go up to 51 until the backlighting ticks up with an element on the middle of the screen at 52. But that's most likely because I dial back the white balance across the board to accomodate using Warm1, which affects the contrast which in turn affects the brightness. But with Local dimming I don't know if those older calibration truths apply here.

In any case I use 48 because that's what my directv feed demands since some movie channels exhibit compression artifacts any higher and then I have to bump up the Oppo BD brightness one tick. None of this is can be an exact science with so many source signals. I have an AVR that I can fiddle with if I need to for specific games on 360 or Ps4. Usually brightness if anything.
But across the board I keep the same settings on the TV.
Thanks for the info -
I guess i need to get out the spears disc
Makes sense that there are variables in play such as cable box, receiver and blu ray player model etc
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post #10574 of 12181 Old 07-05-2014, 08:32 AM
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Yeah, my calibrated settings are for one thing and one thing only: BD/DVD playback. Anything else, you're flying blind to an extent, so I got no problem using stuff like Live Colour with TV broadcasts.
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post #10575 of 12181 Old 07-05-2014, 10:49 AM
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Yeah, my calibrated settings are for one thing and one thing only: BD/DVD playback. Anything else, you're flying blind to an extent, so I got no problem using stuff like Live Colour with TV broadcasts.
It's kind of ironic. I used to be all about 'what the director intended' when calibrating to Telecine standards -but a) I don't know if they use telecine methods with all digital cameras/transfers and b) 3d conversion is usually less than an afterthought for directors and I still love those titles when done correctly on this set.

So who is fooling who anymore? lol

I sometimes wish to get ISF and thx certs and quit my job but I would be taking a steep paycut to do the 'art.'

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post #10576 of 12181 Old 07-05-2014, 11:09 AM
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Plus calibration is not nearly as fun anymore without the geometry grids. :b
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post #10577 of 12181 Old 07-05-2014, 11:31 AM
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What's love telecine got to do with it? That's the process of transferring film to tape (prior to any colour correction etc), and an outdated one at that. The fact is, there are industry standards relating to brightness, gamma, contrast, greyscale and colour reproduction, and I do my damndest to stick to those as closely as possible on my set when watching shiny discs. As luck would have it, those settings give me an absolutely gorgeous picture.

And yeah, while there are a few pieces of software which have been mastered incorrectly with PC levels instead of video levels, I really do get a very good level of consistency when watching different Blu-rays. TV is a different kettle o' fish because we simply don't know what they've done to the PQ at their end, so I'm happy to let that be (aside from the colour temperature, it's gotta be Warm 2 or bust!).
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post #10578 of 12181 Old 07-05-2014, 11:41 AM
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After getting into the nitty gritty research of AVR's over the last few day's, I think may have found a winner (for me anyway). Main test will be when I hook up the replacement Media player (when I eventually get it from Sony ). Now what do you think the odds are I can actually feed the 4K player through the AVR, then out to the display ?? lol

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post #10579 of 12181 Old 07-05-2014, 11:50 AM
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Now what do you think the odds are I can actually feed the 4K player through the AVR, then out to the display ?? lol

The odds are pretty slim, since the media player must be connected directly to HDMI4 of the display for the video signal, and not through the AVR. The only way the AVR comes into play is for the audio portion of the signal. Will that work properly on the fancy new AVR? We are looking forward to your report.

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post #10580 of 12181 Old 07-05-2014, 11:54 AM
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The odds are pretty slim, since the media player must be connected directly to HDMI4 of the display for the video signal, and not through the AVR. The only way the AVR comes into play is for the audio portion of the signal. Will that work properly on the fancy new AVR? We are looking forward to your report.
Why wouldn't it... The only reason (I think anyway) you have to connect to HDMI 4 is for 2.0 support and possibly HDCP issues... I think if I run the 4K player through the 2.0/HDCP 2.2 input on the AVR, then out to HDMI 4 on the panel I should be good to go, unless Sony has implemented some other copy protection into the mix....

That's my hope anyway!!
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post #10581 of 12181 Old 07-05-2014, 11:55 AM
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No Atmos?

Yes, will be available in September via firmware upgrade
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post #10582 of 12181 Old 07-05-2014, 11:57 AM
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The odds are pretty slim, since the media player must be connected directly to HDMI4 of the display for the video signal, and not through the AVR. The only way the AVR comes into play is for the audio portion of the signal. Will that work properly on the fancy new AVR? We are looking forward to your report.
Ah, but if the AVR has HDCP 2.2 then shirley it'll be able to pass the relevant handshaking guff thru to the TV? The whole reason for the split HDMI on the X series players is because there were no 2.2 compatible AVRs which could handle the video encryption. Now that there are such AVR's out there, y'all should be able to use a single HDMI to carry 4K picture and sound from the X series players to the AVR, which then passes the video thru to the TV whilst playing the audio.
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post #10583 of 12181 Old 07-05-2014, 12:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Geoff D View Post
What's love telecine got to do with it? That's the process of transferring film to tape (prior to any colour correction etc), and an outdated one at that. The fact is, there are industry standards relating to brightness, gamma, contrast, greyscale and colour reproduction, and I do my damndest to stick to those as closely as possible on my set when watching shiny discs. As luck would have it, those settings give me an absolutely gorgeous picture.

And yeah, while there are a few pieces of software which have been mastered incorrectly with PC levels instead of video levels, I really do get a very good level of consistency when watching different Blu-rays. TV is a different kettle o' fish because we simply don't know what they've done to the PQ at their end, so I'm happy to let that be (aside from the colour temperature, it's gotta be Warm 2 or bust!).
Warm2. I guarantee my panel is a deviant. Can't be suffered. And I've compared Jerry's settings scene (and yours) on all 6 of my sources. There is something skewed with my greyscale than others' sets. No matter.

So yeah. What is the word I'm looking for when they standardize color? I know they run it through a process telecline isn't it, youre right. It has a name.
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post #10584 of 12181 Old 07-05-2014, 12:16 PM
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Originally Posted by TweakerInWA View Post
Why wouldn't it... The only reason (I think anyway) you have to connect to HDMI 4 is for 2.0 support and possibly HDCP issues... I think if I run the 4K player through the 2.0/HDCP 2.2 input on the AVR, then out to HDMI 4 on the panel I should be good to go, unless Sony has implemented some other copy protection into the mix....

That's my hope anyway!!
Well, you will find out soon enough. I don't know why you are so excited about this. What difference does it make if the video goes directly from the player to the display, or is routed through the AVR?

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post #10585 of 12181 Old 07-05-2014, 12:19 PM
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Originally Posted by flinchn View Post
Warm2. I guarantee my panel is a deviant. Can't be suffered. And I've compared Jerry's settings scene (and yours) on all 6 of my sources. There is something skewed with my greyscale than others' sets. No matter.

So yeah. What is the word I'm looking for when they standardize color? I know they run it through a process telecline isn't it, youre right. It has a name.
So when you measure your output using Warm1, how close does it come to the optimal value of 6500K? And what value does Warm2 measure?

On my display, Warm2 measures 6458 using Gamma 2.2. Warm1 is nowhere near 6500.

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post #10586 of 12181 Old 07-05-2014, 12:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Geoff D View Post
Ah, but if the AVR has HDCP 2.2 then shirley it'll be able to pass the relevant handshaking guff thru to the TV? The whole reason for the split HDMI on the X series players is because there were no 2.2 compatible AVRs which could handle the video encryption. Now that there are such AVR's out there, y'all should be able to use a single HDMI to carry 4K picture and sound from the X series players to the AVR, which then passes the video thru to the TV whilst playing the audio.
Wouldn't bet on it. It needs both the direct handshake and the 2 network connections or no dice.
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post #10587 of 12181 Old 07-05-2014, 12:23 PM
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Well, you will find out soon enough. I don't know why you are so excited about this. What difference does it make if the video goes directly from the player to the display, or is routed through the AVR?
It's less pissing about with several cables for a start, and a lot of folks seem to have had trouble getting everything to handshake correctly. I had the same experience when using the split 4K (upscaled) output from the S790 Blu-ray, the HDMI CEC kept switching the amp to the TV input instead of staying on HDMI whatever. You could say 'well, switch CEC off then!' but I really likes that feature, see.
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post #10588 of 12181 Old 07-05-2014, 12:24 PM
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Wouldn't bet on it. It needs both the direct handshake and the 2 network connections or no dice.
But if the two devices are still connected to the same internets, then what does it matter if it goes through another HDCP handshake on the way?

FYI, some enterprising folks in the UK have gotten the X1 working on a US VPN even though the X9 TV still does not recognise the 4K unlimited app, they use an android tablet to act as the app (in place of the TV doing it) to control the X1, and it works fine. So as long as that double internet connection is taking place on two devices, you're set, i.e. it shouldn't matter if anything else is in the chain or even if the TV can't show the app.

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post #10589 of 12181 Old 07-05-2014, 12:29 PM
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So when you measure your output using Warm1, how close does it come to the optimal value of 6500K? And what value does Warm2 measure?
Well that's a problem. My Spyder3 is malfunctioning. I've considered picking up your package actually. Truth is, I spent a year constantly in the menus and right now I don't feel the need to play anymore. You know I always point people to your settings and give you credit where it's due.

But I know you'd agree with me if you could see what I see - forget color, shadow and blacks alone. I'm staring at my Oppo screen saver right now and the panel is off for all intents and purposes except the logo. I cannot achieve that with any temp but warm1. (50 brightness - +1 brightness on the Oppo)

I've seen quoted deviations of up to 10% on the same production run. So I've never tried to argue with you other than to assert that shared settings can only go so far.

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post #10590 of 12181 Old 07-05-2014, 12:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Geoff D View Post
But if the two devices are still connected to the same internets, then what does it matter if it goes through another HDCP handshake on the way?

FYI, some enterprising folks in the UK have gotten the X1 working on a US VPN even though the X9 TV still does not recognise the 4K unlimited app, they use an android tablet to act as the app (in place of the TV doing it) to control the X1, and it works fine. So as long as that double internet connection is taking place on two devices, you're set, i.e. it shouldn't matter if anything else is in the chain or even if the TV can't show the app.
I can dig that. I suppose HDCP 2.2 pass through might be solid enough on that AVR
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