Official Sony [X9] XBR-55X900A / XBR-65X900A Owner's Thread - Page 364 - AVS Forum
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post #10891 of 12539 Old 07-13-2014, 05:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Mattopotamus View Post
Those are old clips

lol, guess I should have actually watched it....

I only noticed it when I was walking through as I was there researching AVR's ... Either way, I wouldn't think it should take to long eh??
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post #10892 of 12539 Old 07-13-2014, 05:40 PM
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Originally Posted by TweakerInWA View Post
lol, guess I should have actually watched it....

I only noticed it when I was walking through as I was there researching AVR's ... Either way, I wouldn't think it should take to long eh??
I think it is going to be a highlight video. Hopefully it is sooner rather than later.
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post #10893 of 12539 Old 07-13-2014, 05:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Mattopotamus View Post
I think it is going to be a highlight video. Hopefully it is sooner rather than later.

I hope not, that would be ridiculous!!!!

They should IMO have at the very least the semi's, third-place and Final for viewing. Otherwise what a waste of time and resources...

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post #10894 of 12539 Old 07-13-2014, 05:53 PM
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Originally Posted by TweakerInWA View Post
I hope not, that would be ridiculous!!!!

The should IMO have at the very least the semi's, third-place and Final for viewing. Otherwise what a waste of time and resources...
It was a complete guess on my part. It may very well be every game. Knowing Sony though it will not be free.
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post #10895 of 12539 Old 07-13-2014, 06:08 PM
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Originally Posted by TweakerInWA View Post
I hope not, that would be ridiculous!!!!

The should IMO have at the very least the semi's, third-place and Final for viewing. Otherwise what a waste of time and resources...
I would think they will be available at some point as a 4k download and they probably won't be cheap.

http://www.fifa.com/worldcup/news/y=...m-2313778.html
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post #10896 of 12539 Old 07-13-2014, 06:13 PM
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Originally Posted by kbrod1 View Post
I would wait for better players. That NTEK player people have been waiting a year for with many times promised and not delivered. Coupled with the fact that the original CEO and founder pleaded guilty to several felonies and bank fraud and hired his brother to take his place (after his admission) as CEO with no tech experience or college for that matter but he was an Ice Sculpturer. It doesn't get any stranger except in these penny stock companies. Currently selling for 8 cents. There have been a handful of deliveries to date as they promised in the beginning of July. Even though they have never sent any out for a review because they know will be canned. The original CEO said 15,000 units were already shipped to retailers back in Jan. an obvious lie. The unit uses the T4 chip which is 4 times slower than the K1 chip Nvidia replaced it with so its already obsolete.
Having said all that, i bought their NP-H1 4K player 6 months back and it hasnt missed a beat, they sent it immediately and had it in Australia within the week

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post #10897 of 12539 Old 07-13-2014, 06:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Mdjones9137 View Post
I would think they will be available at some point as a 4k download and they probably won't be cheap.

http://www.fifa.com/worldcup/news/y=...m-2313778.html
Good find,

"Tokyo, Japan – Sony Corporation and FIFA today announced that they will collaborate on a range of 4K initiatives at the 2014 FIFA World Cup™, including production of the Official 2014 FIFA World Cup™ Film in 4K Ultra HD, and produce three full matches in 4K to further promote the growth of 4K content. World football’s flagship event will be held in Brazil from 12 June to 13 July."

So three full games.... I'm assuming they won't show the third place game, if it's only three, probably the two semi's and the final....Can't wait !!! guess I'll pony up the pennies for it if need be...

Edit: Then again they might try to throw in a USA game for marketing reasons.. Guess we'll find out eventually...

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post #10898 of 12539 Old 07-13-2014, 06:29 PM
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Originally Posted by TweakerInWA View Post
Good find,

"Tokyo, Japan – Sony Corporation and FIFA today announced that they will collaborate on a range of 4K initiatives at the 2014 FIFA World Cup™, including production of the Official 2014 FIFA World Cup™ Film in 4K Ultra HD, and produce three full matches in 4K to further promote the growth of 4K content. World football’s flagship event will be held in Brazil from 12 June to 13 July."

So three full games.... I'm assuming they won't show the third place game, if it's only three, probably the two semi's and the final....Can't wait !!! guess I'll pony up the pennies for it if need be...
Those games would be incentive for me to order the x10 over the movie Salt
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post #10899 of 12539 Old 07-13-2014, 06:40 PM
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Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
There really are few differences between your settings and the ones I use, which is further proof that with a proper calibration, settings should be similar. One difference I found a bit peculiar was the Color setting, which I have as 59. How do you arrive at your color setting? I use the Spears&Munsil test pattern, and 45 is way off using that pattern.
59? Wow. When you say you use a test pattern, which one do you mean? Apart from checking the the contrast ramps for any clipping and/or banding, I set colour by calibrating, not by eye. I know mine's a different set to yours, but colour's an even 50 for me.

Might as well chuck in my latest 55" settings after calibration, which to my surprise produces an incredible black level, even in a completely dark room. Using an Oppo 95 set to YCbCr 8-bit (and no damned Darbee).

Cinema 2
backlight 3
contrast 90
brightness 49
color 50
Colour temp warm 2
sharpness 50
gamma 0
Reality Creation: Res 6 - Noise Min - Mi4K OFF
smooth gradation: OFF
LED control: Standard
SBM: OFF
Motionflow: TrueCinema for 60Hz content otherwise OFF for movie viewing

white balance: red gain 0, green gain 0, blue gain -3, red bias -5, green bias 0, blue bias -1

measures 41.5 fL at 100%, 142.2 cd/m2, gamma avg 2.20, colour temp avg 6512.6K, measured contrast with AVSHD on/off 4893:1, ANSI contrast 2602:1
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post #10900 of 12539 Old 07-13-2014, 07:36 PM
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Originally Posted by flinchn View Post
If you plug in settings under 2d AND, separately, 3d common, they will apply to all sources, including Apps. The only thing that will be different are the Reality Creation settings.
Are you saying settings need to be changed in both 2D and 3D in order to be consistent in the apps? In other words, if 2D common is changed but 3D settings are not, the apps won't reflect the settings? How do you change settings for 3D?

And speaking of: any recommendations on how to view 3D content? I am a complete neophyte in that area. I thought Netflix had some streaming, but I see nothing--at least, no category for it on their site or the apps. Same for any Super HD. I wonder if Time-Warner has anything to do with it. If I want to watch 3D, do I need to buy discs? T-W has a "3D Events" channel, but I have no idea what it is--it's not part of my package and I just get a blank screen.

Re: your settings, either I'm getting used to the TV or they're better (to my eyes) then AJ's. I'm really liking the picture, both from a Blu-ray source or cable. HBO had Gravity on in 1080i and it looked fantastic.

Looking forward to hopefully getting the X10 shipped this week. I would expect Sony to get them out the fastest, and that's where I ordered from, but who knows.
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post #10901 of 12539 Old 07-13-2014, 07:41 PM
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Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
My Oppo is set to RGB Video level, and deep color is off. I do not use ARC. I have none of the issues with my Darblet that you reported.
On another note, regarding your previous comparison watching the World Cup on the 1080i ESPN feed. I was sitting here watching Star Wars Episode I on Blu-ray and the thought crossed my mind about there being any potential differences in up-scaled PQ letting your Denon upscale your Oppo source 1080p to 4K prior to the Sony processing. Something I'm sure you've probably done already...Just wondering what kind of results you had, or is the Darbee processing key once again here to keep in the path..



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post #10902 of 12539 Old 07-13-2014, 07:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Geoff D View Post
59? Wow. When you say you use a test pattern, which one do you mean? Apart from checking the the contrast ramps for any clipping and/or banding, I set colour by calibrating, not by eye. I know mine's a different set to yours, but colour's an even 50 for me.
I use the S&M standard test patterns for color and hue, along with the colored lens. Based on my experience, while observing these test patterns and adjusting the display's color and hue controls, the correct setting is very easy to determine, and for my set it is color=59 and hue=R1. The tests are quite accurate. A value of 58 or 60 is obviously wrong.

I have said before, there could easily be differences between different displays. And keep in mind that we are basing our settings by playing test DVD's on players with slightly different color settings. I use, for example, a color setting of RGB Video, with deep color off. If your settings are different, that might account for variations in the settings.
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post #10903 of 12539 Old 07-13-2014, 07:46 PM
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Originally Posted by TweakerInWA View Post
On another note, regarding your previous comparison watching the World Cup on the 1080i ESPN feed. I was sitting here watching Star Wars Episode I on Blu-ray and the thought crossed my mind about there being any potential differences in up-scaled PQ letting your Denon upscale your Oppo source 1080p to 4K prior to the Sony processing. Something I'm sure you've probably done already...Just wondering what kind of results you had, or is the Darbee processing key once again here to keep in the path..



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Sorry, I don't understand your question.
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post #10904 of 12539 Old 07-13-2014, 07:53 PM
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Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
Sorry, I don't understand your question.
Have you done a comparison on the Blu-ray PQ by allowing the Denon to upscale the 1080p signal to 4K prior to sending it to the Sony, or do you still prefer to have it set to 1080 and keep the Darbee in the path. Hope that helps clear it up..

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post #10905 of 12539 Old 07-13-2014, 08:41 PM
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If you read my original post, that is exactly what I tested. My preference is to upscale to 1080p in the Denon, output the signal through the Darblet, and then allow the Sony to perform the final up-scale to 4K. This is the only way to preserve the Darbee enhancements, which I find very beneficial.
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post #10906 of 12539 Old 07-13-2014, 09:08 PM
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Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
If you read my original post, that is exactly what I tested. My preference is to upscale to 1080p in the Denon, output the signal through the Darblet, and then allow the Sony to perform the final up-scale to 4K. This is the only way to preserve the Darbee enhancements, which I find very beneficial.
Gotcha, just thought it might vary if you changed sources...

Sorry for so many questions, but I'm still learning about the nitty-gritty of all this stuff. You mentioned you prefer the RGB setting on the Oppo, any experience trying YCbCr 4:2:2, or deep colour 36 bits? Just curious whether those settings have a negative or positive impact on PQ as far as the calibration standard goes...

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post #10907 of 12539 Old 07-13-2014, 09:26 PM
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Geoff did some experimenting with these settings. When I tried different options, I couldn't see any visual difference, but it didn't get into looking at various test screens in Spears&Munsil.

The reason I use the RGB Video setting on my Blu-ray when calibrating is that my DirecTV DVR's (HR24-500's) output video in RGB, and there is no way to change that. So, since I watch quite a bit of HD programming from DirecTV, I want my settings optimized for an RGB signal. Make sense?
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post #10908 of 12539 Old 07-13-2014, 09:31 PM
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Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
Geoff did some experimenting with these settings. When I tried different options, I couldn't see any visual difference, but it didn't get into looking at various test screens in Spears&Munsil.

The reason I use the RGB Video setting on my Blu-ray when calibrating is that my DirecTV DVR's (HR24-500's) output video in RGB, and there is no way to change that. So, since I watch quite a bit of HD programming from DirecTV, I want my settings optimized for an RGB signal. Make sense?
Yep...



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post #10909 of 12539 Old 07-13-2014, 10:18 PM
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The np-h1 (yours) and the np-1 are two different animals with completely different processors and boards. Yours cost more than three times the np-1. It is already obsolete and doubtful whether it even truly works well. I would hope the np-h1 works well for a grand. That being said, the np-1 is just a Mojo it even has the same serial number and it's a hundred cheaper.
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post #10910 of 12539 Old 07-14-2014, 02:47 AM
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Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
I use the S&M standard test patterns for color and hue, along with the colored lens. Based on my experience, while observing these test patterns and adjusting the display's color and hue controls, the correct setting is very easy to determine, and for my set it is color=59 and hue=R1. The tests are quite accurate. A value of 58 or 60 is obviously wrong.

I have said before, there could easily be differences between different displays. And keep in mind that we are basing our settings by playing test DVD's on players with slightly different color settings. I use, for example, a color setting of RGB Video, with deep color off. If your settings are different, that might account for variations in the settings.
The blue filter method is a relic from the CRT days, so that folks without colour testing gear could try and approximate what the correct colour was supposed to be. But if you have calibration gear then it's completely unnecessary, because you've got a totally objective means of setting the colour, as opposed to the subjective (it's relying on your eyes' sensitivity to colour) blue filter method. If you're setting colour by eye, you're throwing your calibration out of the window.
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post #10911 of 12539 Old 07-14-2014, 03:07 AM
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New owner - my journey and some quick questions

I had an older Samsung DLP set in one room which "lost red" a while back. I looked into it, bought the part on eBay and replaced it. Got another year of useful life out of it, but then it started developing the dreaded "white spots" - which accelerated quickly. Time for a new set!

After having read and seen so many positive Samsung reviews, especially for last year's F8000 series, I'd first settled on either one of those in 65" or a UN65H7150 for less. My local big box store only had the 7150 on a wall practically by itself, and all the TVs were playing the same loop without much variety. I couldn't tell whether it would satisfy me, nor if it seemed any better or worse than other sets! Even skin tones were pretty hard to compare. Couldn't get any other content played on it. This stymied me. I like to comparison shop, and see things with my own eyes. Different things look good to - or bother - different people.

(I'm going to omit store names and prices, as I'm not sure of the AVSforum policy and don't want to violate any, but can add them later, if that's OK.)

As I was considering my options, I noticed two things - I really liked the look of the Aquos Q17. Of course, it was playing it's own content stream, so how is one to do a fair comparison? But it was in the same price range as the 65" F8000 so it went on the list. I thought their "in between 1080p and 4k" technology actually seemed to work. Don't know if it will succeed in the market with 4k set costs coming down, but I liked what I saw (and was able to choose content on this one).

Then I saw the XBR65X900A - and that it was on sale as a 2013 model. I had been planning to skip 4k for this purchase and give things a few years to mature. But I was able to see both 4k and 1080 content on this set, and I thought both looked great. I was very suspicious of 1080p upconversion, (maybe due to past experiences with 480p to 1080p) but I guess seeing is believing.

I was able to get a price that satisfied me - and less than the F8000. Though I had to drive a bit to the store that had one in stock, I did buy locally from a place that had one on display to - I hope - support the idea of letting me actually see the TV display stuff before buying it. (There's a whole sub-story here regarding things being - or not being - in stock, but I'll omit that for now.)

Brought it home. Only had time to connect it to a PS4 so far. Image looked good in the few games I tested briefly. Big step up from where I was. Won't have time to do more for a day or two.

I am not settled, yet, on the sound. It's MUCH better than most TVs, but does not match my current speakers. I didn't expect it to. I would like to simplify my setup in this room - need to do some tests to decide on the trade-off of continuing with separate speakers or not.


I am reading through the owner's thread, but it is LONG, and search isn't as helpful as I'd like. If anyone has time to answer one or two of my questions, I'd appreciate it:

1. Is there a "single source" of info on this set - like a wiki or something? I'm happy to try people's settings from their sig file links, etc. but it would be great if there were a wiki or community FAQ. If there is, I'd love a pointer.

2. One of the things I loved about the F8000 reviews was that the movie mode came so well calibrated "right out of the box." I had one set calibrated about every 2 years. The DLP was just calibrated once after purchase. What can I expect from the 900A's cinema mode, and how close can I get it with user-adjustable settings? (i.e. is ISF calibration avoidable?)

3. The set would only allow me to select Game-Standard and Game-Original when connected to the PS4. This seems suboptimal for BluRay viewing. Will it switch on its own, or do I need to somehow "unlock" something to get the TV to allow me to set other modes when connected to the PS4? (I'm puzzled how it even knows its connected to a game console... guess there's more going on in HDMI than I thought.)

4. I'm also interested in what game mode settings with the PS4 (or Xbox One, or even PC) people find enjoyable. (I saw a post about turning on one setting in particular, but didn't write it down and lost track of it...)

5. I'm considering the Sony 4k content device - I noticed the new/upcoming one is cheaper but has half the storage. Clips are not pre-loaded. Is it "better" or "worse" or "just different?" I can't seem to tell, yet.

6. Netflix doesn't appear to indicate which plan you need for 4k streaming. (Not that I suspect my Comcast internet will actually accommodate that, despite my "up to 50Mpbs" speed, as I often seem unable to lock on HD from Amazon in prime time.) Is it just the same plan that you need for regular HD?

7. Where can I see my current firmware/software version? I checked the manual, and it showed me HOW to update, but not how to see what version I have now. I presume there is no reason NOT to update to the latest? I'd been reading about a set where that was actually NOT the case for several months...

That's MORE than enough story and questions for a single post. I'd appreciate any thoughts, answers, advice based on the experiences of other owners and their setup, etc.

Thanks,
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post #10912 of 12539 Old 07-14-2014, 06:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff D View Post
The blue filter method is a relic from the CRT days, so that folks without colour testing gear could try and approximate what the correct colour was supposed to be. But if you have calibration gear then it's completely unnecessary, because you've got a totally objective means of setting the colour, as opposed to the subjective (it's relying on your eyes' sensitivity to colour) blue filter method. If you're setting colour by eye, you're throwing your calibration out of the window.
TBH, this is the first time I have heard that the color and tint test screens on the Spears&Munsil disk are relics of the past.

Humor me, then. Explain the current relevant methodology for setting color and tint, or point me in the direction that explains the process. I am always eager to learn new things.

Edit: Here is what Spears&Munsil have to say: http://www.spearsandmunsil.com/portf...or-and-tint-2/

Last edited by AustinJerry; 07-14-2014 at 06:36 AM.
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post #10913 of 12539 Old 07-14-2014, 06:48 AM
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OK, Geoff, now you have me thinking. I found this on the SpectraCal site. Is this anything close to the procedure you use?

Setting Color/Tint

The standard method for doing this involves looking at a SMPTE color bar test pattern through a blue filter. This method has 2 drawbacks. First, at best it is an approximation of the correct setting. Second, and more importantly, for some displays it simply does NOT work. On some plasmas in particular I have noticed that this method will recommend a grossly inaccurate setting. Here's a foolproof method for setting Color/Tint that does not use filters.

Color

Point the colorimeter or light meter towards the screen and display a 100% white test pattern.
Measure the Y value (luminance) of white.
Display a 100% Red test pattern, and measure the Y value here as well.
You will notice that as you move the Color control up and down, the Y value of Red increases and decreases, but white stays the same.
Set the color control at the point where Red measures closest to 21% of the white reading.

Note: It is not really important whether you use 75% or 100% patterns in this test, so long as you use the SAME level of intensity for both.

Tint

If you have not already done so, adjust the gray scale and get it as close to D65 (x=0.3127, y=0.329) across the entire range as possible.
Point the colorimeter towards the screen and display a cyan test pattern.
Put the Tint control at its neutral mid setting.
Use the software controls to plot cyan on a CIE chart.
Adjust Tint up or down until the reading places the hue of cyan as close to the target on the CIE chart as possible (it is useful if the software has a continuous reading mode, so you can see changes you make to Tint in real time).
If you had to substantially adjust Tint from the neutral point to get an accurate hue of cyan, then check the other secondaries. You may have to select another setting that gets all 3 secondaries as close to correct hues as possible.
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post #10914 of 12539 Old 07-14-2014, 06:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SwedishChef View Post
2. One of the things I loved about the F8000 reviews was that the movie mode came so well calibrated "right out of the box." I had one set calibrated about every 2 years. The DLP was just calibrated once after purchase. What can I expect from the 900A's cinema mode, and how close can I get it with user-adjustable settings? (i.e. is ISF calibration avoidable?)


Many users have posted various settings after calibrating themselves. AustinJerry's is the default for new users, but I just implemented (and really like) Flinchn's set-up, which is not far off. Check it out http://www.avsforum.com/photopost/da...c_Capture.jpeg or AJ's settings at https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...207-5-2014.pdf

Quote:
I'm considering the Sony 4k content device - I noticed the new/upcoming one is cheaper but has half the storage. Clips are not pre-loaded. Is it "better" or "worse" or "just different?" I can't seem to tell, yet.


I'm not sure anyone can, as the X10 isn't due to start shipping until this week. I *think* you can expand the 1TB drive with external storage via USB, though, and I'm not sure the X1 could support the HVEC codec required of Netflix, while the X10 can. The latter is also wireless, though that may not be a great idea in light of the massive files being transferred.

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Netflix doesn't appear to indicate which plan you need for 4k streaming. (Not that I suspect my Comcast internet will actually accommodate that, despite my "up to 50Mpbs" speed, as I often seem unable to lock on HD from Amazon in prime time.) Is it just the same plan that you need for regular HD?


Same plan, but you'd need the X10. The TV's app does not have the codec for 4K. (The 900B does, though.) You'd also need a minimum 25mbps speed -- which can vary widely, as you noted. And currently, there are only three shows in full-on 4K: House of Cards , Orange is the New Black, and Breaking Bad. I bought the X10 mainly to check out the pre-loaded clips (not full movies) and rent 4K films from Sony Video Unlimited.

Sorry I can't answer more. I'm a new user as of Saturday and don't play games.
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post #10915 of 12539 Old 07-14-2014, 08:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Renzo12 View Post

Many users have posted various settings after calibrating themselves. AustinJerry's is the default for new users, but I just implemented (and really like) Flinchn's set-up, which is not far off. Check it out http://www.avsforum.com/photopost/da...c_Capture.jpeg or AJ's settings at [URL]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/78476446/AVS%20posts/XBR-X900%20Settings%207-5-2014.pdf[/
I use slightly different setting when the shades are open (although I don't have direct light pointing at the screen).

I would never watch 2d and 3d films this way but if anyone is interested in a brighter picture than I will add them to the dark room settings below
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post #10916 of 12539 Old 07-14-2014, 08:17 AM
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Originally Posted by TweakerInWA View Post
Gotcha, just thought it might vary if you changed sources...

Sorry for so many questions, but I'm still learning about the nitty-gritty of all this stuff. You mentioned you prefer the RGB setting on the Oppo, any experience trying YCbCr 4:2:2, or deep colour 36 bits? Just curious whether those settings have a negative or positive impact on PQ as far as the calibration standard goes...

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I would not change this from auto/deep color off on the Oppo unless you can confirm from 3d depth test patterns that you are not stifling separation between elements 'at the frame' and before the 'frame' (popout)

It took me a year to see this was happening to me....

(I never tried RGB however just the yuv settings.)

Last edited by flinchn; 07-14-2014 at 08:31 AM.
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post #10917 of 12539 Old 07-14-2014, 08:23 AM
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@Geoff D

Why Mi4k off. If I pull up a fine sharpness test and toggle, it is clear I'm losing some sort of pixel line effect when it is off.
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post #10918 of 12539 Old 07-14-2014, 08:41 AM
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Just purchased a 55X900a during the clearance. Will be delivered soon, so have a couple of questions.

I've read that there is a firmware update for HDMI 2.0 and am a bit confused withe the below:

1) Does the X900a not support netflix 4k?

2) I saw in the thread about a HDMI port repair -- something to do with the 4k player, etc. What is that related to?

Thanks.
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post #10919 of 12539 Old 07-14-2014, 08:49 AM
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Originally Posted by blitzftw View Post
Just purchased a 55X900a during the clearance. Will be delivered soon, so have a couple of questions.

I've read that there is a firmware update for HDMI 2.0 and am a bit confused withe the below:

1) Does the X900a not support netflix 4k?

2) I saw in the thread about a HDMI port repair -- something to do with the 4k player, etc. What is that related to?

Thanks.
Fast answer to your questions:
No it doesn't support 4K Netflix
If you're in the US, almost any set will have already been modified with HDCP for "port repair."
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post #10920 of 12539 Old 07-14-2014, 09:06 AM
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TBH, this is the first time I have heard that the color and tint test screens on the Spears&Munsil disk are relics of the past.

Humor me, then. Explain the current relevant methodology for setting color and tint, or point me in the direction that explains the process. I am always eager to learn new things.

Edit: Here is what Spears&Munsil have to say: http://www.spearsandmunsil.com/portf...or-and-tint-2/
Well, after Geoff's comment, I pulled out the S&M disk again and followed the instructions contained in the link above. For those of you familiar with S&M, the first thing you do is select a blue filter that results in the red, yellow and green bars on the left side of the Color and Tint screen to turn completely black. If that doesn't happen, then the calibration can only be an approximation.

Unfortunately, the bars don't turn completely black on my display, so the values for color and tint are now suspect. The documentation suggests that a colorimeter can be used to perform an accurate calibration, but I have yet to find a step-by-step instruction on how to do this.

For anyone else using S&M, do the bars turn black for you?
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